Is Pakistan's 7th rank in Tests reflective of the team's quality?

[BreadPakoda]

Results are not that bad:
Drew against England away. Defeated them at home.
Won against WI both home and away.
Defeated almost all other teams at home, barring Sri Lanka

Yet Pakistan is ranked 7th out of essentially 9 test playing nations.

Pakistan has some really solid batsmen in Azhar Ali (double centurion in Australia), Asad Shafiq (one of the best middle order batsman), Sarfaraz Ahmad (solid wicket keeper batsman). They have the world's best leg spinner, Yasir Shah (a real star) and some good bowlers such as Mohammad Amir and Hassan Ali.

These are 6 good to top players who form the core of the team. Teams like SL on the other hand do not have such quality players.

Do you think the ranking justifies the team's potential/quality? I believe that with a little bit of luck and some good performances, Pakistan can jump above SL, England and even NZ which haven't performed well off lately.

 

[ahmadharis1]

Got whitewashed by Australia and New Zealand as well don't forget that

 

[BreadPakoda]

Got whitewashed by Australia and New Zealand as well don't forget that

Almost every team goes through these white washes/partial white washes. Sub continent teams get a hammering in Aus/SA/Eng, while Aus/SA get a hammering in Asia. England seems to be getting a hammering everywhere except home.

Any way, its about potential. There is definitely quality if you look at some of the player names.

 

[Slog]

At the moment you can definitely argue it is.

In my opinion (excluding Zim, Afg, Ire types) we are in the lower tier of Test sides. This tier include us, SL and WI. NZ are somewhere in the middle with England and then in top tier it is India, SA and Aus but SA will likely drop out of it soon.

The England away series draw was almost 2 years ago and prior to that the wins you refer to are even older (3+ years). So they either have little relevance to rankings or a tiny weightage

Since August 2016 our results have been:

WI: Home series win 2-1 - Lost points due to low WI points and us being ranked #1
NZ: Away series whitewash Lost points due to losing to NZ side several ranks below us
Aus: Away series whitewash Lost points
WI: Away series win 2-1 Again lost points due to difference in points
SL: Home whitewash Lost points. Inexcusable, Embarassing

So really it doesnt take an Einstein to figure out why we are ranked we are especially considering that rankings give more weightage to recent results

 

[Slog]

Almost every team goes through these white washes/partial white washes. Sub continent teams get a hammering in Aus/SA/Eng, while Aus/SA get a hammering in Asia. England seems to be getting a hammering everywhere except home.

Any way, its about potential. There is definitely quality if you look at some of the player names.

SA generally do well in Asia. 2015 India was an aberration and you know why.

But yes they are on decline

 

[BreadPakoda]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]. I am not arguing about the ranking system and its calculation. I mentioned the results to point out that Pakistan has played well at least in patches. It's about the quality of players. With one of the best test openers, WK and once in a generation leg spinner, the team should be doing better.

 

[Slog]

[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]. I am not arguing about the ranking system and its calculation. I mentioned the results to point out that Pakistan has played well at least in patches. It's about the quality of players. With one of the best test openers, WK and once in a generation leg spinner, the team should be doing better.

Heart of Pakistan's batting has been ripped out since YK retirement. The whole batting lineup was built around him.

Misbah you can still argue that he wasn't as important as there was a visible decline in recent years so his loss could have been coped with.

But YK was still our best batsmen by far and only Azhar Ali threatening to be in same league.

So yes the double retirements have hurt us and clearly our batting is someway off being Test standard. It was never great but having an ATG to have others play around was crucial. Right now no one is leading the batting lineup and Azhar, good as he is, doesnt do that yet.

The bowling: Yasir is good but leggies by their nature will have more off days than other great bowlers.
The pace is attack isnt great by any means. Amir is good for an inspired spell or so every series and while not a liability he again isnt a leader of the attack. Hasan Ali is not going to be as destructive in Tests as in LOs due to nature of his bowling. Third seamer is always a toss up anyway and all have major flaws

The good results you are pointing out were built around our batting led by YK. Apart from England UAE 2012, most major scores were batsmen batting around YK or Misbah (more YK)

 

[shariqnoor]

Our Test team will continue to struggle. More than our batting, its our bowling that worries me. We don't have enough firepower in our bowling to take 20 wickets -especially away from home. The ranking is reflective of our poor performance and we should expect to hover around 5-7 ranking for a couple of years at least until we unearth some more wicket taking bowlers.

 

[CadPakFan]

I think if Agha Salman is put in the test team as a batting all-rounder will we see an improvement in the team.

 

[Sidilicious]

Before you lost to SL, I would have rated you 5th, only below Ind, SA, Aus and Eng.

But after losing to SL, I would consider NZ a better team now. At least 6th would be your rank.

 

[Rahul1]

Results are not that bad:
Drew against England away. Defeated them at home.
Won against WI both home and away.
Defeated almost all other teams at home, barring Sri Lanka

Yet Pakistan is ranked 7th out of essentially 9 test playing nations.

Pakistan has some really solid batsmen in Azhar Ali (double centurion in Australia), Asad Shafiq (one of the best middle order batsman), Sarfaraz Ahmad (solid wicket keeper batsman). They have the world's best leg spinner, Yasir Shah (a real star) and some good bowlers such as Mohammad Amir and Hassan Ali.

These are 6 good to top players who form the core of the team. Teams like SL on the other hand do not have such quality players.

Do you think the ranking justifies the team's potential/quality? I believe that with a little bit of luck and some good performances, Pakistan can jump above SL, England and even NZ which haven't performed well off lately.

Really?

 

[Kaka4pope]

Scheduling hasn't helped - we played 12 tests in 6 months in 2016 alongside LOIs, we aren't prepped for that. Also doesn't help that we go to some places, i.e. Australia, once every 6/7 years...

Rankings can be strange, we'd give England a game no problem...Saffers on the other hand...

 

[DRsohail]

We are pathetic test side and the ranking shows it.We have to be patient though with this side.It will take time to settle down.

 

[Buffet]

Almost every team goes through these white washes/partial white washes. Sub continent teams get a hammering in Aus/SA/Eng, while Aus/SA get a hammering in Asia. England seems to be getting a hammering everywhere except home.

Any way, its about potential. There is definitely quality if you look at some of the player names.

2-3 good players are never going to pull all 11 average players.

Just to make this point,

Pakistan has one batsman and 2 bowlers in the top 25. Putting it another way, Pakistan has a grand total of 3 players among the top 50 cricketers playing right now. Yes, you can argue about some ranking here and there, but it's the most objective way to loot at this. Clearly, potential is not going to do anything if players are not performing.


WI and SL has 3-4 players in the top 50 cricketers. Every other team has more than that. Team is simply a collection of all these players.

 

[BlackShadow]

Poor at home and rubbish away, so yes.

 

[Buffet]

Results are not that bad:
Drew against England away. Defeated them at home.
Won against WI both home and away.
Defeated almost all other teams at home, barring Sri Lanka

Yet Pakistan is ranked 7th out of essentially 9 test playing nations.

Pakistan has some really solid batsmen in Azhar Ali (double centurion in Australia), Asad Shafiq (one of the best middle order batsman), Sarfaraz Ahmad (solid wicket keeper batsman). They have the world's best leg spinner, Yasir Shah (a real star) and some good bowlers such as Mohammad Amir and Hassan Ali.

These are 6 good to top players who form the core of the team. Teams like SL on the other hand do not have such quality players.

Do you think the ranking justifies the team's potential/quality? I believe that with a little bit of luck and some good performances, Pakistan can jump above SL, England and even NZ which haven't performed well off lately.

I think you are over estimating players from Pakistan and underestimating players from SL here.

SL has a better spinner than Pakistan in Herath. Next best ranked bowlers from Pakistan are 25th(Wahab) and 38(Abbas). Nothing to get excited here.

SL has three batsmen, Mathews(26th)/Mendis(21st)/Chandimal(12th), who are ranked lower than Ali, but higher than everyone else from Pakistan.

 

[Itachi]

It doesn't.

I believe Pakistan should be around 5th.

 

[Slog]

It doesn't.

I believe Pakistan should be around 5th.

What is your avatar supposed to represent?

 

[Syed1]

Who cares about boring test cricket anyway.... I'd take a 7/8/9/10 ranking in tests if it means our LOI side does well and continues to win world tournaments.

 

[BreadPakoda]

2-3 good players are never going to pull all 11 average players.

Just to make this point,

Pakistan has one batsman and 2 bowlers in the top 25. Putting it another way, Pakistan has a grand total of 3 players among the top 50 cricketers playing right now. Yes, you can argue about some ranking here and there, but it's the most objective way to loot at this. Clearly, potential is not going to do anything if players are not performing.

WI and SL has 3-4 players in the top 50 cricketers. Every other team has more than that. Team is simply a collection of all these players.

In my opinion, while Azhar is a top opener, Asad is a quality tests batsman too. Sarfaraz as a batsman is better than Saha and then they have Yasir. So not 2-3 but 4-5 good players and 2 decently good. Need to get their pace bowling sorted and I don’t rate their pace bowling very highly right now but its still decent (Amir, Wahab, Hasan).

Even India have only 4-5 consistent performers - Kohli, Bhuvi, Ashwin, Jadeja and Rahane. So 4-5 good performers can pick up a team. I’m not saying Pak test side is comparable with Indian (India is ranked one) but I believe the potential is there for them to do much better than rank 7.

 

[Junaids]

No: they haven’t played a home Test in the entire tanking period.

I maintain that Australia, England, India, New Zealand, Pakistan and South Africa are roughly identical currently. St home at full strength each is very difficult to beat.

Pakistan let two geriatrics clog up the middle order, failing in 90% of away innings, and didn’t groom their replacements.

 

[troodon]

Pak was terrible away and was not ruthless at home.

Losing 2 Tests (one home and one away) to WI was really bad.

Getting smacked by Lanka of all teams seems to have hurt your rankings real bad.

 

[carbon11]

Apart from yasir shah

And maybe a few spells by wahab reversing the old Cherry at 150 kph

There isn't a player who stands out as test quality in that team .

The batting and bowling is pretty average .

So for me yasir shah is the only standout player and match winner in the test team

 

[Cozyrensetter]

Who cares about boring test cricket anyway.... I'd take a 7/8/9/10 ranking in tests if it means our LOI side does well and continues to win world tournaments.

This^^^.Test cricket is dying and considering that even England which acted as some sort of guardian to test cricket and is now focusing more on white ball cricket with players dropping out .Look at the attendances in the most competitive series of the year and it tells you the story.
Going forwards only World cups and Leauge cricket will be important.We as diehard fans may argue about test rankings but general public does not care.

 

[barah_admi]

Results are not that bad:
Drew against England away. Defeated them at home.
Won against WI both home and away.
Defeated almost all other teams at home, barring Sri Lanka

Yet Pakistan is ranked 7th out of essentially 9 test playing nations.

Pakistan has some really solid batsmen in Azhar Ali (double centurion in Australia), Asad Shafiq (one of the best middle order batsman), Sarfaraz Ahmad (solid wicket keeper batsman). They have the world's best leg spinner, Yasir Shah (a real star) and some good bowlers such as Mohammad Amir and Hassan Ali.

These are 6 good to top players who form the core of the team. Teams like SL on the other hand do not have such quality players.

Do you think the ranking justifies the team's potential/quality? I believe that with a little bit of luck and some good performances, Pakistan can jump above SL, England and even NZ which haven't performed well off lately.

I don't think so. We have to remember, that even when Pak lost to Aus 3-0, they could have been 1-0 going into the final game but just a few minutes across a single session of play got between them and success. That's not bad, for a side that was not supposed to compete in Australia's backyard. In fact, they were a lot better down under than Aus were in the UAE.

The only really bad loss has been to SL. That is unforgivable and showed Sarfrazs naivety as captain and Pak's lack of quality with Khan and Misbah gone.

 

[Smbhayi]

No: they haven’t played a home Test in the entire tanking period.

I maintain that Australia, England, India, New Zealand, Pakistan and South Africa are roughly identical currently. St home at full strength each is very difficult to beat.

Pakistan let two geriatrics clog up the middle order, failing in 90% of away innings, and didn’t groom their replacements.

Pakistan had better w/l ratio at UAE than Pakistan. [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] did post something about that sometime ago. So there's no guarantee they'll have better results at Pak than at UAE.

 

[Napa]

No: they haven’t played a home Test in the entire tanking period.

Ah, here is Junaids reporting from his fantasy world. In the real world Pakistan in the "entire tanking period" has not only played home Tests, but lost Tests to SL and WI at home.

 

[OoparCut]

No: they haven’t played a home Test in the entire tanking period.

I maintain that Australia, England, India, New Zealand, Pakistan and South Africa are roughly identical currently. St home at full strength each is very difficult to beat.

Pakistan let two geriatrics clog up the middle order, failing in 90% of away innings, and didn’t groom their replacements.

I guess Pakistan's home loss against Sri Lanka "doesn't count".

 

[Napa]

I guess Pakistan's home loss against Sri Lanka "doesn't count".

As runs against SL don't count, losses against them also do not count. Seems to me to be a perfectly logical argument

 

[Markhor]

Doesn't help when your two stalwart middle-order batsmen retire at the same time, or when you have three difficult away tours to England, Australia and New Zealand in the space of six months with little preparation time for the latter two.

We are in a tough transition but the team management deserve time to get the team combination right.

 

[Fahdi]

We are pretty weak at the moment. Babar has potential but seems to be jarred by the Australian experience after showing great early signs in NZ. Haris was our best batsman in the last series and he was on debut, that should tell you everything. Azhar Ali is basically our only settled batsman.

As far as bowling goes... What is our bowling? No settled attack at all. Abbas has done well so far but has to prove himself against a good batting attack, besides I think most of his wickets have come against tailenders. Then we have a bunch of TTFs and rookies with potential but nothing else.

 

[JaDed]

No: they haven’t played a home Test in the entire tanking period.

I maintain that Australia, England, India, New Zealand, Pakistan and South Africa are roughly identical currently. St home at full strength each is very difficult to beat.

Pakistan let two geriatrics clog up the middle order, failing in 90% of away innings, and didn’t groom their replacements.

How do you explain LANKA winning tests in UAE or Kiwis drawing a series?

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Does this really need a thread? We're not a very good test team right now.