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Is South African Cricket heading towards the same fate as the West Indies?

Savak

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Have come across so many articles which highlights that Cricket in South Africa is facing a rapid crisis

- Dwindling interest among the South African public for Cricket which has led to lower attendances for international games. Domestic games are more or less unwatched which has lowered the quality of domestic cricket. Cricket in South Africa is competing with far too many sports in South Africa i.e. rugby

- Dwindling interest among broadcasters and sponsors for Cricket in South Africa, loads of wineries and brewery companies who were long term supporters of the South African team have more or less ended their sponsorships of the teams and Cricket South Africa is desperate for sponsors

- The quota policy and its negative repercussions on South African Cricket leading to a Kolpak exodus. Cricket South Africa was concerned about the lack of talent, players coming through the ranks because of which they decided to change their domestic structure and introduce an additonal 6 teams in their domestic structure but this move has been challenged in court by the South African Cricketers Association out of concern that this will lower the quality of domestic cricket and also negatively impact the amounts to be paid to domestic cricketers

- Cricket South Africa is estimated to be dealing with debts of up to $45 million in the next 4 years and with declining sponsorships, insufficient revenue streams, they have to increase revenue and reduce their costs, expenditures. This means curtailing budgets for U-19 cricket tours, A team tours, domestic academies, development programs, amounts that can be paid to ex-legends to serve South African Cricket. Cricket South Africa in desperation has reached out to the stars of the 90's and 2000's i.e. Graeme Smith, Shaun Pollock, Jacques Kallis, Hashim Amla to get involved in South African Cricket with either the national side, domestic cricket or the U-19, A teams but they have all refused to so far because the amounts they are being paid from their broadcasting deals are far more than what CSA can afford to pay them and with the harsh economic environment in South Africa where a lot of South Africans are leaving abroad for better economic opportunities, you can't blame the ex players for refusing to take a huge pay cut for patriotic reasons.

- The retirements of ex legends, kolpak exodus means that there is a dearth of experienced players playing alongside a lot of rookies in domestic cricket which means that the domestic cricket structure in South Africa is an absolute shambles right now.

- Faf Duplesis the South African captain criticized CSA for not planning or forseing the massive gap and holes that would be left when the previous super star players like Graeme Smith, Jacques Kallis, Hashim Amla, Dale Steyn, Morne Morkel would eventually quit. Darryl Cullinan actually forsaw this problem and expressed huge concern in 2015 when South Africa were doing really well with all the super star players in the team where he pinpointed that the talent stocks at the U-19 levels, A team levels were zilch and not good enough to replace the senior players and that South Africa would have huge problems later on.

South Africa was in my view the best team in the world in the 90's outside their chokes in the big tournaments. In the 2000's, they were the number 2 team in the world after the invincible Australians and upto 2015-17 they were the best in the world. I wonder if there luck has finally run out for good as well, eventually they were going to stop producing elite world class players at some point.

Even though Pakistan got trashed 3-0 in the test series, i was not impressed at all by the South African team, they clearly looked to be far inferior compared to the teams they had in the past. The scoreline 3-0 reflected more Pakistan's incompetency rather than South Africa's brilliance.

My prediction is that we have now seen the best of South African Cricket and now they are heading in the direction of the West Indies.
 
School cricket is still strong there and they will keep getting the talent it's the quota system that is killing them the Bavuma of this world keep on playing tests despite garbage returns while likes of Riley Rosou are stuck playng random pyjama leagues
 
Quota system is pathetic but at the same time, you can understand why its there. Considering majority of south african and black by ethnicity (80.1%), it does seem really weird to see majority of team from a specific minortiy group (whites). Also considering the social politics of south africa in the past, they saw the importance of representation of players from the majority ethnic group in the national team. Ofcourse, that has come at the price of quality of the team. Although, I hope this is only short-term policy, used as catalyst to see more black players making the national side on merit alone rather than quota system.
 
The problem is that black administrators want to be in control but the vast majority of fans are still white. There just isn't the interest from black fans and that's the reason the game will decline like it did in Zim. What SA does have is great schools which although are rugby centric, do however produce enough cricketers to keep the supply coming. The board could stop trying to penalise white players for being white and accept that without white players the team will become average at best.
 
Quota system is pathetic but at the same time, you can understand why its there. Considering majority of south african and black by ethnicity (80.1%), it does seem really weird to see majority of team from a specific minortiy group (whites). Also considering the social politics of south africa in the past, they saw the importance of representation of players from the majority ethnic group in the national team. Ofcourse, that has come at the price of quality of the team. Although, I hope this is only short-term policy, used as catalyst to see more black players making the national side on merit alone rather than quota system.

The best way to attract interest from anybody, is to have a team that wins. The quality of the team shouldn't be lowered to give black players a chance. If they filled up an all black XI and lost every game, literally nobody would be a fan, not even the black folk.

If they want to keep a quota, it should be 3 black/coloured players at the most.
 
The best way to attract interest from anybody, is to have a team that wins. The quality of the team shouldn't be lowered to give black players a chance. If they filled up an all black XI and lost every game, literally nobody would be a fan, not even the black folk.

If they want to keep a quota, it should be 3 black/coloured players at the most.

Cricket is only part of the black culture in the Cape, most black people have no interest in cricket and can't be forced to like it. Cricket is the 2nd team Sport for most white people behind Rugby and will remain so, and if the SA loses that it will decline very quickly.
 
CSAF is doing a fantastic job to develop the game there & ensuring long term sustainability, by integrating the majority population in the game. It might take a decade of low performance, but that’s the only way to remain a force in this game for long term. Cricket was a white dominant game there, and these people don’t own the shirt - they’ll leave SAF for a better pay at first option. It that scenario, only way to remain among best is to bring people that owns the country & proud to represent the shirt. Given proper opportunities, black people can also acquire adequate skills of the game to reach the highest level.

It might sound odd and their recent performance does show a decline, which definitely is impacted by their quota based selection policy, but I see a merit on this and they have proved that it worked in past and it’ll will work again. I can give a perfect example to explain why -

SAF won the 1995 Rugby WC as host and that SAF squad was full of (mostly, if not all) white players - Rugby SAF did something similar like cricket that time and for a decade their performance declined. But, with in 12 years, they won the WC again in 2007 with several black players .... and their 2019 WC squad (won WC for 3rd time), is dominated by black players, including the captain. It’ll happen in cricket as well - they are a naturally gifted sporting nation with a sports loving culture and their system from grass root level is too good, it’s just needed the integration of mass and keep the interest high - CSAF is doing exactly that.
 
CSAF is doing a fantastic job to develop the game there & ensuring long term sustainability, by integrating the majority population in the game. It might take a decade of low performance, but that’s the only way to remain a force in this game for long term. Cricket was a white dominant game there, and these people don’t own the shirt - they’ll leave SAF for a better pay at first option. It that scenario, only way to remain among best is to bring people that owns the country & proud to represent the shirt. Given proper opportunities, black people can also acquire adequate skills of the game to reach the highest level.

It might sound odd and their recent performance does show a decline, which definitely is impacted by their quota based selection policy, but I see a merit on this and they have proved that it worked in past and it’ll will work again. I can give a perfect example to explain why -

SAF won the 1995 Rugby WC as host and that SAF squad was full of (mostly, if not all) white players - Rugby SAF did something similar like cricket that time and for a decade their performance declined. But, with in 12 years, they won the WC again in 2007 with several black players .... and their 2019 WC squad (won WC for 3rd time), is dominated by black players, including the captain. It’ll happen in cricket as well - they are a naturally gifted sporting nation with a sports loving culture and their system from grass root level is too good, it’s just needed the integration of mass and keep the interest high - CSAF is doing exactly that.

Excellent post amongst usual pessimistic rants.
 
Cant predict the future but surely the way its going around the cricketing world, with the exception of NZ only Big 3 (Mainly India and Eng) have improved and all other cricketing nations have pretty much declined in the last decade. If the trend continues we might only be seeing big 3 playing each other or cricket taking a turn towards T20 leagues mostly.

Already only a handful of countries play cricket and cricket cant afford the continuation of downfall of 3-4 (Almost 40-50 % of total) countries.
 
I don't think biggest problem is quota system. Biggest problem is Kolpak deal. They are losing all the better players to England. Once they sort this out, they should be fine.

I think they have better talent than West Indies.
 
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] Wouldn't you say requiring 5 black/coloured players per XI is a bit overboard though?

Also white players aren't leaving because they don't love SA, they're leaving because they want to be secure financially. You never know in SA as a white player, unless you're the caliber of Steyn or Graeme Smith, you can easily be replaced by a black player because they need to accommodate them in somehow.
 
I don't think biggest problem is quota system. Biggest problem is Kolpak deal. They are losing all the better players to England. Once they sort this out, they should be fine.

I think they have better talent than West Indies.

Yeah well the quota system plays a big part in players taking the kolpak route. If I'm not mistaken, the quotas also exist in domestic cricket?
 
CSAF is doing a fantastic job to develop the game there & ensuring long term sustainability, by integrating the majority population in the game. It might take a decade of low performance, but thatÂ’s the only way to remain a force in this game for long term. Cricket was a white dominant game there, and these people donÂ’t own the shirt - theyÂ’ll leave SAF for a better pay at first option. It that scenario, only way to remain among best is to bring people that owns the country & proud to represent the shirt. Given proper opportunities, black people can also acquire adequate skills of the game to reach the highest level.

It might sound odd and their recent performance does show a decline, which definitely is impacted by their quota based selection policy, but I see a merit on this and they have proved that it worked in past and itÂ’ll will work again. I can give a perfect example to explain why -

SAF won the 1995 Rugby WC as host and that SAF squad was full of (mostly, if not all) white players - Rugby SAF did something similar like cricket that time and for a decade their performance declined. But, with in 12 years, they won the WC again in 2007 with several black players .... and their 2019 WC squad (won WC for 3rd time), is dominated by black players, including the captain. ItÂ’ll happen in cricket as well - they are a naturally gifted sporting nation with a sports loving culture and their system from grass root level is too good, itÂ’s just needed the integration of mass and keep the interest high - CSAF is doing exactly that.

POTW nomination from my side!!!
 
definitely looks like it, but i dont follow SA domestic enough to judge whats going to happen. from their international team it doesnt look good. time will tell
 
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] Wouldn't you say requiring 5 black/coloured players per XI is a bit overboard though?

Also white players aren't leaving because they don't love SA, they're leaving because they want to be secure financially. You never know in SA as a white player, unless you're the caliber of Steyn or Graeme Smith, you can easily be replaced by a black player because they need to accommodate them in somehow.


Quota has its own purpose. Today, SAF black (non white) players are behind not because they are genetically less gifted, rather for generations, these people were deprived of the equal opportunity- of facilities, of selection; which has put them behind. SAF isn’t like South Asia - they are good in several other sports and if cricket SAF doesn’t encourage talented non white kids (for every sport, fundamental required skills set are same - reflex, muscle structure & power, speed, agility, hand-eye, coordination between limbs..), they’ll move to other sports and cricket will eventually suffer a slow death. There is nothing called genetically talent in sports - you open it for mass, provide grass root facilities, filter the best, train them to be best professionals .. non white SAF can be a top team, if the game is still popular there, because their system is good, there school cricket is excellent and they have a rich sporting culture.

SAF players don’t leave from insecurity or because there is not enough money in SAF cricket; rather they are leaving to exploit a back door left open by English counties. Till mid 90s, English Counties could hire almost unlimited foreigners, which was blocked by PCA (Pro Cricketers’ Association) to max one/team. So, to bring foreign talent (England simply doesn’t produce enough talent for 18 teams County), Counties have found a back door named Kolpak, which is nothing but a professional work permit for some foreigners, who could work as British, for their past blood links, without consuming that single foreign quota. By that same route Aussies & Kiwis also can move, but they own their country/flag, hence they won’t. These SAF white players are opportunist, and they have very little affiliation to represent SAF, otherwise a player like AdV doesn’t need to retire from national team, when his market value was unanimous, regardless of he is picked by SAF or not. These days, even without playing for national team, you can make a fortune. Also, by the excuse of quota, lots of white players are earning cheap sympathy- many of them are just not that good and got exposed when given opportunity.

That quota will cost SAF temporarily, but that’s the only way cricket can survive there - it happened in Rugby, in Soccer, in Tennis, in Athletics, in Boxing, in Golf .... it’ll happen in cricket as well. Or other way, if it doesn’t, SAF will gradually diminish through the chimes of cricket folklore.
 
Quota has its own purpose. Today, SAF black (non white) players are behind not because they are genetically less gifted, rather for generations, these people were deprived of the equal opportunity- of facilities, of selection; which has put them behind. SAF isn’t like South Asia - they are good in several other sports and if cricket SAF doesn’t encourage talented non white kids (for every sport, fundamental required skills set are same - reflex, muscle structure & power, speed, agility, hand-eye, coordination between limbs..), they’ll move to other sports and cricket will eventually suffer a slow death. There is nothing called genetically talent in sports - you open it for mass, provide grass root facilities, filter the best, train them to be best professionals .. non white SAF can be a top team, if the game is still popular there, because their system is good, there school cricket is excellent and they have a rich sporting culture.

SAF players don’t leave from insecurity or because there is not enough money in SAF cricket; rather they are leaving to exploit a back door left open by English counties. Till mid 90s, English Counties could hire almost unlimited foreigners, which was blocked by PCA (Pro Cricketers’ Association) to max one/team. So, to bring foreign talent (England simply doesn’t produce enough talent for 18 teams County), Counties have found a back door named Kolpak, which is nothing but a professional work permit for some foreigners, who could work as British, for their past blood links, without consuming that single foreign quota. By that same route Aussies & Kiwis also can move, but they own their country/flag, hence they won’t. These SAF white players are opportunist, and they have very little affiliation to represent SAF, otherwise a player like AdV doesn’t need to retire from national team, when his market value was unanimous, regardless of he is picked by SAF or not. These days, even without playing for national team, you can make a fortune. Also, by the excuse of quota, lots of white players are earning cheap sympathy- many of them are just not that good and got exposed when given opportunity.

That quota will cost SAF temporarily, but that’s the only way cricket can survive there - it happened in Rugby, in Soccer, in Tennis, in Athletics, in Boxing, in Golf .... it’ll happen in cricket as well. Or other way, if it doesn’t, SAF will gradually diminish through the chimes of cricket folklore.

I agree that talent is not the reason SA black players are behind their white counterparts, But are CSA actually doing something to provide players with better facilities? Because if they are not, just simply having a quota is a half assed attempt on encouraging black people to take up cricket.

You didn't exactly answer my question though, don't you think requiring 5 black players is going a bit overboard?
 
I agree that talent is not the reason SA black players are behind their white counterparts, But are CSA actually doing something to provide players with better facilities? Because if they are not, just simply having a quota is a half assed attempt on encouraging black people to take up cricket.

You didn't exactly answer my question though, don't you think requiring 5 black players is going a bit overboard?

No, I don’t think five is too many - there is no hard & fast rule for this actually. May be, even two could have been sufficient, may be even eight won’t. Considering a population ratio of 90-10, I don’t think 5 is too many; may be it would have been better for initial damage control, but the hind side is that recovery time there after could have been too long.

Also, they use weight age average numbers, means annually around 44.44% players have to be non white considering every game (X 11 players) - they can always play with the numbers by playing more than 5 non whites in softer games and picking best possible XI in tougher ties.

It’s quite methodical and logical step, but there are demerits definitely- net, net I think it’s the right directive. Imagine a player like Basil de Oliviera had to leave his home to play international cricket, when some of players that represented SAF that time for their skin colour would make you feel sick.
 
South Africa still have quality to stay top 4-5, specially when playing at SENA nations.
 
I was thinking about this a week ago, this is just sad, SA has so much talent and whilst I don't feel they will go the the WIs way, I do feel they will eventually turn into a below avg side. That dumb Qouta system, along with the political turmoil that is going on with the Blacks wanting to take over all the land owned by the whites etc, South Africa is headed for disaster. No dis-respect to Black Africans but they don't have what it takes to run a successful country or economy, the minute all the whites leave, SA will be Zimbabwe part 2 and turn into a toilet bowl.....
 
I was thinking about this a week ago, this is just sad, SA has so much talent and whilst I don't feel they will go the the WIs way, I do feel they will eventually turn into a below avg side. That dumb Qouta system, along with the political turmoil that is going on with the Blacks wanting to take over all the land owned by the whites etc, South Africa is headed for disaster. No dis-respect to Black Africans but they don't have what it takes to run a successful country or economy, the minute all the whites leave, SA will be Zimbabwe part 2 and turn into a toilet bowl.....

To be honest, i don't see much quality talent in their new players. Even though Pakistan got whitewashed in South Africa, i was more shocked at the glaring amounts of vulnerabilities i noticed in the South African team. They are very much a beatable side now.
 
SAF is most likely to host 2027 WC - in less than 8 years time..... and they’ll be one of the favourites to win it.

You have read it here & I have seen their Rugby, Soccer, Golf, Athletics.
 
SAF is most likely to host 2027 WC - in less than 8 years time..... and they’ll be one of the favourites to win it.

You have read it here & I have seen their Rugby, Soccer, Golf, Athletics.

so you can say with certainty that players who will come from south africa will be the best in the world?

only way to verify that is if you see potential in the current 16-20 year old safrican cricketers, as they will be the ones playing that world cup
 
so you can say with certainty that players who will come from south africa will be the best in the world?

only way to verify that is if you see potential in the current 16-20 year old safrican cricketers, as they will be the ones playing that world cup

Not necessarily - Tendulkar didn't play U19 WC, neither Styen, and Steve Smith was a leggi at U19 level. U19 WC is indicative - just 1/2 players from one U19 representing national team for 10-12 years is a success. PAK won 2004 & 2006 U19 WC - 10-12 years later between 2012 to 2015 was probably the darkest period of PAK ODI cricket.....

SAF's system is good, youth are athletic and they have a rich sports culture - as long as the interest is there, they'll recover. Now, they are missing few top players - still that team has KoK, Rabada. They'll come back - don't read much into those 7-0 by PAK U19 ... couple of years back, we beat their U19s like 12-2 over two legs ..... It's between 19-23 years where boys become man - system transforms that, which they have; just needs to bring house in order, which will take few more years.
 
New Zealand is the new hub of South African talent

There is a general notion that most of the white South African players move to England for career due to racist quotas and financial issues in South Africa but many people forget that the New Zealand has been the biggest beneficiary of the talent and white exodus from South Africa.

Recently I was checking a scorecard from the NZ domestic tournament and I was surprised to see that there were at least 5 players out of 22 players in the match who were born in South Africa. Not just that but NZ have also been poaching players from Associate nations like Netherlands and Hong Kong.

There are also a lot of South Africans who are currently playing for NZ like Wagner, BJ Watling, Philipps, Munro. I might have missed quite a few players as well. Grant Elliot from the past was South African as well.
 
2023 women's T20 World Cup- Final.
2023 men's World Cup - Semi Final.
2024 men's T20 World Cup - Final.
2024 women's T20 World Cup - Final.
2025 World Test Championship - Final*.

- SOUTH AFRICAN CRICKET DOMINANCE...!!! 🇿🇦
 
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