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Is Stuart Broad a better Test bowler than Kapil Dev and Ian Botham?

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Ted123

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He is getting close to 500 test wickets soon which irrespective of number of tests played is a huge achievement and puts him among the league of great fast bowlers.

He averages 28 right now and averages under 30 in England, South Africa, New Zealand and UAE. Do you consider him a better bowler than Botham and Kapil? I also think he certainly is a better bowler than any Indian or Sri Lankan fast bowler in test cricket.
 
Kapil is one of the greatest outswing bowler in history. Definitely would have averaged in the mid 20s against the techniqueless wonders that are playing these days.
 
Broad is England specialist. Just like Ashwin is an Indian specialist.
Kapil inspired a generation and took Indian cricket to another level with 83+test perfomances in WI , Aus, NZ in 1980s. Botham brought the X factor of an all-rounder in Tests and inspired many all-rounders from England, though not many could make it until Flintoff and Stokes.
 
Ian Botham maybe but certainly not at the level of the legendary Kapil Dev, the greatest AR in the history of tje game. The slayer of West Indies and greatest Asian bowler in Australia
 
Broad is easily greater than Kapil Dev, who was pretty average to be honest. He is actually better than Botham as well but the latter had a great peak and some series defining performances which Broad doesn’t have.
 
Ted123 said:
He is getting close to 500 test wickets soon which irrespective of number of tests played is a huge achievement and puts him among the league of great fast bowlers.

He averages 28 right now and averages under 30 in England, South Africa, New Zealand and UAE. Do you consider him a better bowler than Botham and Kapil? I also think he certainly is a better bowler than any Indian or Sri Lankan fast bowler in test cricket.
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He’s there or thereabouts. He has two tenfers to Botham’s four so he is less likely to run through a side. Sir Ian did better in India and Australia, Broad better in WI though of course he faced much weaker batters there. Sir Ian never played tests in SA where Broad has done well. Botham played in stronger bowling sides early on, with Willis and Underwood. Botham had a brilliant start and faded slowly, while Broad started very badly before deciding what sort of test bowler to be and does very well since.
 
As a bowler I rate Ian Botham slightly above both Broad and Kapil because of superior away record. Both Broad and Kapil have inconsistent away record. Broad needed to improve his record in India. His Average of 54 in India is pretty bad.
 
broad is a good SENA bowler. he did well in u.a.e a few times. that's about it.

kapil is better than broad and Anderson in my opinion. That's why stats isn't everything.

philander has an a average of 22.1. doesn't make him better than wasim....

broad averages 50 plus in india. not good enough. terrible infact.
 
tyron_woodley said:
broad is a good SENA bowler. he did well in u.a.e a few times. that's about it.

kapil is better than broad and Anderson in my opinion. That's why stats isn't everything.

philander has an a average of 22.1. doesn't make him better than wasim....

broad averages 50 plus in india. not good enough. terrible infact.
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Only people who read or followed or experienced Indian cricket history know the value of Kapil. He was the equivalent of Sachin of 1990s in bowling Dept from 1978 to 1988-89 till Manoj (fixing) prabhakar came along and then srinath - lone warrior.
 
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Broad is better. He will go past 500 wickets and even 550 compared to Kapil's 434 and Botham's 380 odd.

His numbers aren't good in India because he had to deal with a really strong Indian lineup who are massive bullies at home. In Australia, he is better than his numbers but unfortunately, due to not having enough support, he couldn't break into good stats.

Overall, I think he in on par with Botham and Kapil both and roughly equivalent to Jimmy. A great bowler nonetheless.
 
but unfortunately, due to not having enough support, he couldn't break into good stats.
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And the same can't be said about Kapil, correct?
 
Broad IMO has always possessed the natural talent and ability to be one of the greatest seam bowlers of all time, and he could have been just as good as McGrath - but unfortunately Broad’s attitude and subsequently his consistency have sometimes let him down.

Still a very good Test bowler and an England great, who has been mostly reliable over a long period, and is widely known for his signature unplayable bursts wherein he can take 5+ wickets out of nowhere and win a Test match in one session.
 
MP2011 said:
And the same can't be said about Kapil, correct?
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This can be and is always said for Kapil. But this doesn't mean we will start rating him as high as Dale Steyn.

Kapil is an ATG all-rounder and a great test bowler who is better than his numbers but Broad has even better numbers. As a bowler only I feel he is now on par with him and Botham both as he has more wickets, more matches and is still going strong.

He is better than Jimmy if we are not using the Duke ball.
 
But this doesn't mean we will start rating him as high as Dale Steyn.
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From where did Steyn come into it? Steyn was always a far better bowler than Kapil, support or not...Can anyone dispute that?
 
Broad is comfortably better than a lot of 80's bowlers. Neither Kapil nor Botham would have been able to swing the modern kookaburra . Kapil and Botham were good players for the 80's. Neither would make their respective national teams today.
 
Ab Fan said:
Broad is better. He will go past 500 wickets and even 550 compared to Kapil's 434 and Botham's 380 odd.

His numbers aren't good in India because he had to deal with a really strong Indian lineup who are massive bullies at home. In Australia, he is better than his numbers but unfortunately, due to not having enough support, he couldn't break into good stats.

Overall, I think he in on par with Botham and Kapil both and roughly equivalent to Jimmy. A great bowler nonetheless.
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Hmm, Botham got thirteen wickets in a match facing Gavaskar, Vengsarker and Vishwanath. India have been hard to beat at home for as long as I can remember.

‘Great’ is too much praise. Lillee and Imran were great.
 
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Nikhil_cric said:
Broad is comfortably better than a lot of 80's bowlers. Neither Kapil nor Botham would have been able to swing the modern kookaburra . Kapil and Botham were good players for the 80's. Neither would make their respective national teams today.
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How do you know they wouldn’t swing modern balls? You have no evidence. You’ve just massively disrespected two of the best players in history. There are very few good enough to get in for their batting and bowling. Only about five guys ever have. Nobody has since them.
 
Robert said:
How do you know they wouldn’t swing modern balls? You have no evidence. You’ve just massively disrespected two of the best players in history. There are very few good enough to get in for their batting and bowling. Only about five guys ever have. Nobody has since them.
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They were among the best players for their time but neither are quick enough for the modern era. There is no disrespect in calling them inferior to modern players . The modern kookaburra ball does not have the lacquer that it did in those days. Anyway , the pace at which they swung the ball, they would have been taken to the cleaners by modern batsmen. They may be effective on seaming English wickets with a red dukes ball if they were to play today but everywhere else they would have had to resort to offspin bowling .
 
Nikhil_cric said:
They were among the best players for their time but neither are quick enough for the modern era. There is no disrespect in calling them inferior to modern players . The modern kookaburra ball does not have the lacquer that it did in those days. Anyway , the pace at which they swung the ball, they would have been taken to the cleaners by modern batsmen. They may be effective on seaming English wickets with a red dukes ball if they were to play today but everywhere else they would have had to resort to offspin bowling .
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This again. Modern batters have weak defences. Botham and Kapil would be bowling them through the gate. Kapil did well in Border’s Australia - whom Marshall said was the best batsman he faced, and you can’t tell me Marshall wasn’t quick.

Botham at full speed around 1984-5 was certainly Broad pace.

This all ignores the axiom that a champion in one era would be a champion in any. It’s about personality and drive. Someone born today with the natural ability of Botham and Kapil and their sheer desire to dominate would get right to the top.

Whereas a Broad in the eighties would have carved out a fifty test career, but would be breaking down a lot due to the sheer grind of the County season.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Broad is comfortably better than a lot of 80's bowlers. Neither Kapil nor Botham would have been able to swing the modern kookaburra . Kapil and Botham were good players for the 80's. Neither would make their respective national teams today.
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You are funny. :misbah

Just 2 days ago you were saying that Sachin, Ponting and Kallis played in a different era and players from today would have find it hard in that era. And now you have completely flipped your theory lol. Bhai kehna kya chahte ho? :inti
 
Robert said:
This again. Modern batters have weak defences. Botham and Kapil would be bowling them through the gate. Kapil did well in Border’s Australia - whom Marshall said was the best batsman he faced, and you can’t tell me Marshall wasn’t quick.

Botham at full speed around 1984-5 was certainly Broad pace.

This all ignores the axiom that a champion in one era would be a champion in any. It’s about personality and drive. Someone born today with the natural ability of Botham and Kapil and their sheer desire to dominate would get right to the top.

Whereas a Broad in the eighties would have carved out a fifty test career, but would be breaking down a lot due to the sheer grind of the County season.
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This. They are different eras but the basic skills are unchanged. An inswinger is still an inswinger. Botham and Kapil would be destroying the poor lineups we see nowadays. There is no team around today with a consistent test batting lineup. The relentless bowling attacks of the 80's would have some of todays no technique players dancing around like cats on hot tin roofs.

Remember in the 80's there wasnt a bouncer rule. You had some every questionable pitches in many places around the world. The balls were different. We didnt have this bakwaas kookaburra.

batsman had to really grind out scores at times. Bowlers like garner and holding were deadly, Kapil had smarts and a great ability to move the ball both ways. Botham was tenacious and also moved the ball late. Nowadays its up down, slow ball, cross seam, etc etc..

I mean denly wouldnt even have gotten into a second 11 in the 80s..
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
You are funny. :misbah

Just 2 days ago you were saying that Sachin, Ponting and Kallis played in a different era and players from today would have find it hard in that era. And now you have completely flipped your theory lol. Bhai kehna kya chahte ho? :inti
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No I never said that. I said sachin's strike rate was brilliant for his time and the era he played in. Rayudu's is not good enough compared to his contemporaries . :)
 
Robert said:
This again. Modern batters have weak defences. Botham and Kapil would be bowling them through the gate. Kapil did well in Border’s Australia - whom Marshall said was the best batsman he faced, and you can’t tell me Marshall wasn’t quick.

Botham at full speed around 1984-5 was certainly Broad pace.

This all ignores the axiom that a champion in one era would be a champion in any. It’s about personality and drive. Someone born today with the natural ability of Botham and Kapil and their sheer desire to dominate would get right to the top.

Whereas a Broad in the eighties would have carved out a fifty test career, but would be breaking down a lot due to the sheer grind of the County season.
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Broad , even at this stage in his career , looks comfortably quicker than Botham was even in 81. There is no comparison between Botham and broad at his quickest.
 
tyron_woodley said:
broad is a good SENA bowler. he did well in u.a.e a few times. that's about it.

kapil is better than broad and Anderson in my opinion. That's why stats isn't everything.

philander has an a average of 22.1. doesn't make him better than wasim....

broad averages 50 plus in india. not good enough. terrible infact.
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Whilst kapil truly was a quality bowler but no way he was better than Anderson
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Broad , even at this stage in his career , looks comfortably quicker than Botham was even in 81. There is no comparison between Botham and broad at his quickest.
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Eh? I sad 84/5, Botham had quickened up then. He beating good batters for pace with his bouncer.
 
Manunited18 said:
Whilst kapil truly was a quality bowler but no way he was better than Anderson
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Kapil is better man. He had no support and carried the team single handed lay. Anderson had broad, Finn at one stage, flintoff, stokes etc.

Put Anderson in that Indian team and he would have struggled a lot. Kapil conversely would be great in any era.
 
tyron_woodley said:
Kapil is better man. He had no support and carried the team single handed lay. Anderson had broad, Finn at one stage, flintoff, stokes etc.

Put Anderson in that Indian team and he would have struggled a lot. Kapil conversely would be great in any era.
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I concur with this, mostly. One is inclined to think that Anderson would have been a Roger Binny or Chetan Sharma figure.
 
Robert said:
I concur with this, mostly. One is inclined to think that Anderson would have been a Roger Binny or Chetan Sharma figure.
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Anderson is good however his away record pales in comparison to his home record.
In my personal opinion the greatest English bowler ever could have been Simon Jones. In test cricket I mean. He retired way too early. I still remember 2005 when I was still an Aussie supporter until I realised they are cheaters lol. Simon destroyed the aussies at their absolute best.

Finn is another one I really thought could have been as good as say morkel at the very least. Injuries ruined that poor boy’s career.
 
Anderson is equal or maybe better than Kapil in my opinion
If you see Anderson struggled in his initial years due to his action but when he remodelled his action he was one of the best.
IMG_20200128_190737.jpg
 
tyron_woodley said:
Anderson is good however his away record pales in comparison to his home record.
In my personal opinion the greatest English bowler ever could have been Simon Jones. In test cricket I mean. He retired way too early. I still remember 2005 when I was still an Aussie supporter until I realised they are cheaters lol. Simon destroyed the aussies at their absolute best.

Finn is another one I really thought could have been as good as say morkel at the very least. Injuries ruined that poor boy’s career.
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Jones had good pace, good lift, accuracy, bowled from close to the stumps, swung it both ways, reversed it too. Would have been the attack leader and kept Anderson out of the side for years if he had stayed fit. I think he was just too big and too heavy hence the multiple breakdowns.

Not so much injuries in Finny's case as overcoaching, so that he got confused and lost his pace.
 
andy0204 said:
Anderson is equal or maybe better than Kapil in my opinion
If you see Anderson struggled in his initial years due to his action but when he remodelled his action he was one of the best.
View attachment 98607
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Good numbers. Legendary with Duke and decent with kookaburra UAE aside.

And how about Broad from say, 2013 or whenever he became a regular member ??
 
Ab Fan said:
Good numbers. Legendary with Duke and decent with kookaburra UAE aside.

And how about Broad from say, 2013 or whenever he became a regular member ??
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Broad looked more lethal than Anderson when on song and better than Anderson with Kookaburra.
However Anderson is more disciplined and consistent with the ball.
 
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andy0204 said:
Broad looked more lethal than Anderson when on song and better than Anderson with Kookaburra.
However Anderson is more disciplined and consistent with the ball.
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Any peak period for Broad as it's for Anderson?
 
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