Israel v Indonesia

[Gilly]

Over 500,000 Papuans have been killed, and thousands more have been raped, tortured and imprisoned by the Indonesian military since 1969 and the Indonesian governance style has been compared to that of a police state, suppressing freedom of political association and political expression.[6] The Indonesian Government restricts foreign access to the Papua and West Papua provinces due to sensitivities regarding its suppression of Papuan nationalism

Is there a difference between Israel and Indonesia?.

Thoughts.

 

[90MPH]

Why not compare Israel and the Nazis ?

 

[ManFan]

" Israel is the illegitimate child of the West "~ Muhammad Ali Jinnah

 

[Gilly]

Why not compare Israel and the Nazis ?

Because both Israel and Indonesia have ongoing issues and the Nazi party were defeated in 1945.

 

[King-Misbah]

I don't support Indonesia and Israel is just an evil state based on innocent blood.

 

[90MPH]

Because both Israel and Indonesia have ongoing issues and the Nazi party were defeated in 1945.

Some say they learnt from the nazis to treat the Palestinians in the same way the Germans treated them.

 

[Gilly]

Some say they learnt from the nazis to treat the Palestinians in the same way the Germans treated them.

Some say Indonesia are far more brutal than Israel.

 

[Gilly]

Some say they learnt from the nazis to treat the Palestinians in the same way the Germans treated them.

Haj Amin al-Husseini and Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany, 1941 Credit: German Federal Archives / Wikimedia Commons

 

[Pakistanian]

Both are condemnable, both are equally evil however as an American citizen I'm more concerned about our tax monies, weapons, and technology being handed out to the Israelis. Israel is a bully and it's being enabled by western countries, that's the difference between Israel and Indonesia.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I used to think that Indonesia is one of the good nations.

 

[Pakistanian]

Another key difference is that Israel is a Jewish state while Indonesia is a secular state, so the Israel-Palestine conflict is more religious (Zionists vs Palestinian Muslims/Christians) than ethnic while he Indonesian-Papuan conflict is ethnic in nature, it's more like Canada vs Quebec, or Spain vs Catalonia. Obviously those aren't as violent or savage as what Indonesia has been doing however they have the same ethnic dynamics.

 

[www787]

so this thread is about discussing which nation is better at committing genocide?

I’d say Israel, they have better technology, better military, better intelligence. Kind of like Nazi had in Germany.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Is there a difference between Israel and Indonesia?.

Thoughts.

You should have quoted the first paragraph from wiki. This would have pointed out the fundamental difference between Indonesia and Israel.

Since the withdrawal of the Dutch colonial administration from the Netherlands New Guinea in 1962,[4] the implementation of Indonesian governance in 1963 and the formal absorption of Papua into Indonesia in 1969, the Free Papua Movement (Indonesian: Organisasi Papua Merdeka, (OPM)), a militant Papuan-independence organisation, has conducted a low-key guerilla war against the Indonesian state, targeting the Indonesian military and police, as well as engaging in the kidnapping of both non-Papuan Indonesian settlers and foreigners.[5]

The Papuans have conducted various protests and ceremonies raising their flag for independence or federation with Papua New Guinea,

Israel is an occupying and apartheid state who is ethnically cleansing people from their homeland because they believe it's their God Given Land.

Indonesia is protecting it's own territory against armed terrorists. Yes some actions of the Indonesian military are to be condemned but it's not comparable to the acts of Israel.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Haj Amin al-Husseini and Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany, 1941 Credit: German Federal ]

I assume you know who the above is?

I assume you are not aware George Bush's grandfather financed Hitler?

 

[Pakistanian]

You should have quoted the first paragraph from wiki. This would have pointed out the fundamental difference between Indonesia and Israel.



Israel is an occupying and apartheid state who is ethnically cleansing people from their homeland because they believe it's their God Given Land.

Indonesia is protecting it's own territory against armed terrorists. Yes some actions of the Indonesian military are to be condemned but it's not comparable to the acts of Israel.

True, almost all the conflicts in Asia, Africa, the middle east and Latin America stem from European colonialism.

 

[Gilly]

You should have quoted the first paragraph from wiki. This would have pointed out the fundamental difference between Indonesia and Israel.



Israel is an occupying and apartheid state who is ethnically cleansing people from their homeland because they believe it's their God Given Land.

Indonesia is protecting it's own territory against armed terrorists. Yes some actions of the Indonesian military are to be condemned but it's not comparable to the acts of Israel.

There are plenty of paragraphs to read, Indonesia protecting its own territory, are you that gullible.

In 1962, the Dutch agreed to relinquish the territory to temporary United Nations administration, signing the New York Agreement, which included a provision that a plebiscite would be held before 1969. The Indonesian military organised this vote, called the Act of Free Choice in 1969 to determine the population's views on Papua and West Papua's future; the result was in favour of integration into Indonesia. In violation of the Agreement between Indonesia and the Netherlands, the vote was a show of hands in the presence of the Indonesian military, and only involved 1025 hand picked people who were forced at gunpoint to vote for integration with Indonesia, much less than 1% of those who should have been eligible to vote. The legitimacy of the vote is hence disputed by independence activists, who launched a campaign of protests against the military occupation of Papua by Indonesia.

 

[KingKhanWC]

There are plenty of paragraphs to read, Indonesia protecting its own territory, are you that gullible.

In 1962, the Dutch agreed to relinquish the territory to temporary United Nations administration, signing the New York Agreement, which included a provision that a plebiscite would be held before 1969. The Indonesian military organised this vote, called the Act of Free Choice in 1969 to determine the population's views on Papua and West Papua's future; the result was in favour of integration into Indonesia. In violation of the Agreement between Indonesia and the Netherlands, the vote was a show of hands in the presence of the Indonesian military, and only involved 1025 hand picked people who were forced at gunpoint to vote for integration with Indonesia, much less than 1% of those who should have been eligible to vote. The legitimacy of the vote is hence disputed by independence activists, who launched a campaign of protests against the military occupation of Papua by Indonesia.

Under International law it's the territory of the Indonesia. Just like the natives of Australia didn't want the white man to come and settle their land but I guess if some of them started a violent uprising killing Aussie soldiers, you would support that too?

Btw I feel Indonesia should talk to militants and allow autonomy over this region as a settlement to bring back peace.

 

[Napa]

Another key difference is that Israel is a Jewish state while Indonesia is a secular state, so the Israel-Palestine conflict is more religious (Zionists vs Palestinian Muslims/Christians) than ethnic while he Indonesian-Papuan conflict is ethnic in nature, it's more like Canada vs Quebec, or Spain vs Catalonia. Obviously those aren't as violent or savage as what Indonesia has been doing however they have the same ethnic dynamics.

Actually the Indonesian-Papuan division is also based on religion. Papuans are mostly Christians whereas Indonesians are mostly Muslims.

 

[Pakistanian]

Actually the Indonesian-Papuan division is also based on religion. Papuans are mostly Christians whereas Indonesians are mostly Muslims.

No it's not, it just so happens that they're two ethnic groups with 2 different religions. Imo it's an ethnic conflict with a faint religous factor, kinda like how ethnic Kashmiris are fighting for their freedom from Indians, and that includes Indian Muslims.

 

[troodon]

500,000 papuans killed by Indonesians?

 

[LongHorn]

500,000+ Indonesians, mostly of Chinese origin, but native Indonesians as well were killed in mid 60s for being linked to Communists.

The Islamic parties all supported the killings because even being a Communist sympathizer was seen as an awful thing.

There was this interview on BBC where this aged grandfatherly type Muslim was proud of how many he killed and that what happened was good.

 

[Napa]

No it's not, it just so happens that they're two ethnic groups with 2 different religions. Imo it's an ethnic conflict with a faint religous factor, kinda like how ethnic Kashmiris are fighting for their freedom from Indians, and that includes Indian Muslims.

If you believe that Kashmiris are ethnically different from people from Himachal and Punjab, you need to find some population DNA data to validate that claim. As far as I can make out, the Kashmiris are more similar to Punjabis, than the Punjabis are to, say Biharis.

And of course, Kashmiris, Punjabis and Biharis are closer to each other than they are to, say the Chinese.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I have never heard anything about this in the British press so can only assume it's either not taken seriously, or just isn't considered important. Indonesia very rarely features in the news over here.

 

[Majestic_Inzi]

I used to think that Indonesia is one of the good nations.

Indonesia is not a good nation, the way they treat foreign investors is unbelievable, if you find a resource they will lie and manipulate the truth and take it off you.

Indonesia is a pariah state, one which i dont hold high.