John Kerry warns Israel, proposes two state theory! Says Israel can either be Jewish OR Democratic!

[Pakistanian]

John Kerry just gave probably the best speech of his career and of anybody in the Obama admin, maybe too little too late but it's better than nothing.

Best soundbyte: "Israel can either only be Jewish or Democratic but not both!" if it chooses to reject the two state solution.

Unfortunately Trump is very pro Israel so all of this is futile once he's sworn in.

 

[Pakistanian]

Kerry also mentioned how America kept donating money to Israel despite us facing economic hardship & a budget deficit, and that more than half of America's foreign military spending went to Israel!

 

[JaDed]

Big words from the leadership considering them repeatedly crossing other countries' borderand bombing people with drones ,so much for democracy.

 

[SandyB]

These are just parting shots from Obama's administration. Trump and his party are way too pro-Israel. Just some death over slogging from the democrats.

 

[Pakistanian]

These are just parting shots from Obama's administration. Trump and his party are way too pro-Israel. Just some death over slogging from the democrats.

I like that analogy. If that keeps them sleepless for the next 3 weeks, that should be good.

 

[Yossarian]

If a two-state solution is ruled out then the alternative presumably is a single state encompassing all the lands and peoples in what is now Israel and the West Bank (lets leave Gaza out of it for the moment).

In a single state, either the Jewish citizens of this single state will have more rights than the non-Jewish citizens, or all citizens will have equal rights regardless of religion.

If the former, then how long could a single state survive where a large (and increasing) percentage of the population have less rights than the rest? That is simply sowing the seeds for further internal strife and conflict.

If the latter, then there could come a time when the non-Jewish population exceeds that of the Jewish population. What becomes of a 'Jewish State' then?

For there to be a long lasting and permanent peace, the Israelis (who currently have the upper hand) and the Israeli public need to think carefully and look beyond the next 30..40...50+ years

I listened to John Kerry's speech. It was probably the best and most balanced speech I have ever heard from a senior American politician on the topic of Israel/Palestine.

 

[Pakistanian]

If a two-state solution is ruled out then the alternative presumably is a single state encompassing all the lands and peoples in what is now Israel and the West Bank (lets leave Gaza out of it for the moment).

In a single state, either the Jewish citizens of this single state will have more rights than the non-Jewish citizens, or all citizens will have equal rights regardless of religion.

If the former, then how long could a single state survive where a large (and increasing) percentage of the population have less rights than the rest? That is simply sowing the seeds for further internal strife and conflict.

If the latter, then there could come a time when the non-Jewish population exceeds that of the Jewish population. What becomes of a 'Jewish State' then?

For there to be a long lasting and permanent peace, the Israelis (who currently have the upper hand) and the Israeli public need to think carefully and look beyond the next 30..40...50+ years

I listened to John Kerry's speech. It was probably the best and most balanced speech I have ever heard from a senior American politician on the topic of Israel/Palestine.

Kerry would've been a good president, I've heard his daughter is married to an Iranian man.

 

[Slog]

This is just making worse

Going on cricket analogies this is comparable to throwing the kitchen sink when asking run rate is 36+ an over

Sure you can do some damage and get a moral victory but it won't change the result

All it is doing is angering Israel who will prolly double down on their behaviour when the most pro Israel US govt in modern times comes on 3 weeks

 

[Yossarian]

This is just making worse

Going on cricket analogies this is comparable to throwing the kitchen sink when asking run rate is 36+ an over

Sure you can do some damage and get a moral victory but it won't change the result

All it is doing is angering Israel who will prolly double down on their behaviour when the most pro Israel US govt in modern times comes on 3 weeks

So what do you say to the likely consequences if there is no 2-state solution, as outlined in post #6 above?

 

[troodon]

These words would have some weight if this was 2012.

 

[Slog]

So what do you say to the likely consequences if there is no 2-state solution, as outlined in post #6 above?

Subjugation in restricted quarters eventually I would presume. The Palestinians themselves aren't very well equipped and crucially don't have much financial backing either so the damage they can do isn't much.

Interestingly enough about 18-20 percent of Israels current day population (of Israeli territory officially, not settlements) is Arab Muslim. Atleast publicly their don't seem to be huge issues.

I think if Palestinians are willing to live peacefully and accept Jewish hegemony in the lands then they have nothing to fear. But theirs too much pride at stake and frankly they are fighting a lost battle because their Arab brothers have done nothing to help them

 

[Yossarian]

Subjugation in restricted quarters eventually I would presume. The Palestinians themselves aren't very well equipped and crucially don't have much financial backing either so the damage they can do isn't much.

Interestingly enough about 18-20 percent of Israels current day population (of Israeli territory officially, not settlements) is Arab Muslim. Atleast publicly their don't seem to be huge issues.

I think if Palestinians are willing to live peacefully and accept Jewish hegemony in the lands then they have nothing to fear. But theirs too much pride at stake and frankly they are fighting a lost battle because their Arab brothers have done nothing to help them

And for how long do their descendants will continue living as 2nd class citizens just because they are of the wrong religion? You think that they will continue accepting such a situation, ad infinitum, generation after generation? Of course not.

As for the Israeli Arabs currently living in Israel proper, though they are Israeli citizens, they too don't enjoy the same rights as Jewish citizens of Israel (eg A non-Arab Israeli can marry a non Israeli and bring them into Israel as a spouse, but an Arab Israeli cannot marry someone from the West Bank and bring them into Israel as a spouse). How long do you think that such a state of affairs could/will continue, especially bearing in mind that the Arab Israeli population is rising faster (percentage wise) than the rest of Israeli population? The only reason that this type of racist discrimination against Israeli Arabs is not highlighted much is because of the wider Israeli/Palestinian issue.

For Israeli to have a long lasting and permanent peace, both internally and with it's neighbours, it cannot be based upon policies and actions which simply sow the seeds for future conflict.

 

[Slog]

And for how long do their descendants will continue living as 2nd class citizens just because they are of the wrong religion? You think that they will continue accepting such a situation, ad infinitum, generation after generation? Of course not.

As for the Israeli Arabs currently living in Israel proper, though they are Israeli citizens, they too don't enjoy the same rights as Jewish citizens of Israel (eg A non-Arab Israeli can marry a non Israeli and bring them into Israel as a spouse, but an Arab Israeli cannot marry someone from the West Bank and bring them into Israel as a spouse). How long do you think that such a state of affairs could/will continue, especially bearing in mind that the Arab Israeli population is rising faster (percentage wise) than the rest of Israeli population? The only reason that this type of racist discrimination against Israeli Arabs is not highlighted much is because of the wider Israeli/Palestinian issue.

For Israeli to have a long lasting and permanent peace, both internally and with it's neighbours, it cannot be based upon policies and actions which simply sow the seeds for future conflict.

As I said the Palestinians and Arabs don't have much outside support asides from lip service so they aren't in a position to do much. It's not like right now they are imitation ally keeping their calm but eventually will lose patience and all hell will break loose. It's just that this is as far as they can go

I don't agree with it btw lest you think I'm supporting or defending Israel