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[July 2015] Mohammad Hafeez's 10th ODI century ties him for 3rd all-time for Pakistan

Top knock. Pure match winning player.
 
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i learnt it only today and i made a big deal about it in the match thread too. Inzi has only 10 hundreds?? That's a mind blowing stat isn't it?
 
Hafeez would be the first name on my sheet should we play Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Zimbabwe.
No shame in that. Not everyone in the pak team is a model of consistency vs this opposition
 
Why people constantly have to caveat our player's performances ?

Player X performs at home - doesn't count, he must perform overseas - player X performs overseas - doesn't matter, its a poor bowling attack.
 
Markhor said:
Why people constantly have to caveat our player's performances ?

Player X performs at home - doesn't count, he must perform overseas - player X performs overseas - doesn't matter, its a poor bowling attack.
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Totally agree.

Some people are so bitter unless their favourite player performs.

Can I suggest those people to Get over yourselves !

It's about the team winning first, and celebrating whatever your heroes do 2nd.
 
It's important to note that he got his first in 2011, so 10 hundreds in 4 years is pretty exceptional, and he has been dismissed in the 80's a few times as well.

He has been a very consistent performer over the years, and if he plays till the next World Cup, he can score around 15-16 hundreds which is fantastic.
 
[MENTION=138379]#GreenRoars[/MENTION]

He's replying himself, I dont need to. :hafeez
 
Statsman said:
Underrated.

Surprised Inzi has only 10.
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adarsh_bang said:
i learnt it only today and i made a big deal about it in the match thread too. Inzi has only 10 hundreds?? That's a mind blowing stat isn't it?
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It's not surprising at all to be honest. In fact I've always known it. Pakistan has a theory that your most dependable batsman must bat either at 4 or 5, and ideally at 5 - it's why Malik was moved to 5 as soon as he scored a century. It's why Misbah batted at 5 as well. It's a strategy the team thinks will ensure that they don't collapse if the top order fails. During Inzi's era, MoYo would bat at 4 and so Inzi's natural position was 5. At 5, he would often come in too late to score a century. But even though he would bat so late in the order, he would still be the one to win Pakistan the game.

In my opinion, it's a stupid strategy. If Inzi had batted at 3, or even 4, he would have scored a lot more centuries which would have won Pakistan even more games than he was able to win from 5.
 
I think he can get another in this series and perhaps a couple against India as well should they dare enter the UAE.
 
Hafeez seems an honest trier, sure technically he is bound to fail in tough conditions but you play once in 5 years in those places. So it makes sense to persist with him even if he gets banned from bowling. He is good enough as a bat alone given your ODI batting lineup.

For tests you guys need to move on from him.
 
Interesting stats from Cricinfo - There have been 6 ODI centuries by Hafeez at No. 3 for Pakistan. This equals the most any Pakistan batsman has scored in that position. Zaheer Abbaz, Ijaz Ahmed and Younis Khan also made six hundreds batting at No. 3 for Pakistan.

Hafeez's batting average at No. 3 against Sri Lanka is 79.37. He has scored 635 runs from ten innings including four hundreds and one fifty.

Hafeez's deficiencies against quality new ball bowlers is well documented but at No 3 he has been far more consistent for us than he's been opening. Averages 40 at No 3 in ODIs compared to 29 opening.
 
Markhor said:
Interesting stats from Cricinfo - There have been 6 ODI centuries by Hafeez at No. 3 for Pakistan. This equals the most any Pakistan batsman has scored in that position. Zaheer Abbaz, Ijaz Ahmed and Younis Khan also made six hundreds batting at No. 3 for Pakistan.

Hafeez's batting average at No. 3 against Sri Lanka is 79.37. He has scored 635 runs from ten innings including four hundreds and one fifty.

Hafeez's deficiencies against quality new ball bowlers is well documented but at No 3 he has been far more consistent for us than he's been opening. Averages 40 at No 3 in ODIs compared to 29 opening.
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No.3 shields him slightly from the new ball, and he's good enough to take advantage once he gets set.
 
mussu-100 said:
No.3 shields him slightly from the new ball, and he's good enough to take advantage once he gets set.
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Yes this is true and so the top order should be this.

1.Azhar Ali
2.Mukhtar/Shezzy
3.Hafeez
4.Haris Sohail
5.Shoaib Malik
and so on
 
adarsh_bang said:
i learnt it only today and i made a big deal about it in the match thread too. Inzi has only 10 hundreds?? That's a mind blowing stat isn't it?
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Yes Inzi's conversion rate was absolutely abysmal
 
Pete Rose said:
No. For matchwinning odi player please see under pointing, gilchrist, dhoni to name a few
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We must cherish the presence of Hafeez. I still can't understand why you support a failure like Malik and bash Hafeez. Both are known to be very limited against quality bowling.

You choose the lesser evil and it's obviously Hafeez by a country mile. 5x the batsman Malik can be, bowling is just an added advantage.
 
Hawkeye said:
We must cherish the presence of Hafeez. I still can't understand why you support a failure like Malik and bash Hafeez. Both are known to be very limited against quality bowling.

You choose the lesser evil and it's obviously Hafeez by a country mile. 5x the batsman Malik can be, bowling is just an added advantage.
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Hafeez owes his career resurrection to Shoaib malik being sidelined by Ijaz Butt. Hafeez had a good day and we should applaud, but if I had to chose between the two with Pakistan three down and chasing 300 I would always pick Malik over Hafeez
 
Pete Rose said:
Hafeez owes his career resurrection to Shoaib malik being sidelined by Ijaz Butt. Hafeez had a good day and we should applaud, but if I had to chose between the two with Pakistan three down and chasing 300 I would always pick Malik over Hafeez
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- Hafeez has the most hundreds by any Pakistani at number 3.

- Hafeez averages more than 44 since 2013, has scored daddy hundreds at a pace no other Pakistani batsman can.

- 3rd at most number of ODI hundreds by a Pakistani.

If you're chasing 300+, you'd want Hafeez, who plays with authority and has been considerably more consistent than Malik can ever dream of becoming.

Both will fail against quality swing/seam, but Hafeez is just the better batsman considering all bowling/pitch types, and an authority player.
 
Hawkeye said:
- Hafeez has the most hundreds by any Pakistani at number 3.

- Hafeez averages more than 44 since 2013, has scored daddy hundreds at a pace no other Pakistani batsman can.

- 3rd at most number of ODI hundreds by a Pakistani.

If you're chasing 300+, you'd want Hafeez, who plays with authority and has been considerably more consistent than Malik can ever dream of becoming.

Both will fail against quality swing/seam, but Hafeez is just the better batsman considering all bowling/pitch types, and an authority player.
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The answer to hafeez's pedigree lies in the numbers you quote.
 
Inzamam did not score enough hundreds because of his fitness problems. More often that not, he was exhausted after scoring a half-century. Batting at 5 for the last decade of his career didn't help either.
 
A few more odi series v SL and hafeez will be getting alot more 100s its the one team he enjoys bullying.
 
Justcrazy said:
He feasts on such mediocre attacks , and is feasted upon against quality teams
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The problem with this logic is that his peers aren't feasting even on such mediocre attacks. When comparing a player with his own teams mates, head to head records are usually decisive. If Hafeez is feasting on mediocre attacks, then what prevented other batsmen from feasting on these attacks?
 
IndianWillow said:
The problem with this logic is that his peers aren't feasting even on such mediocre attacks. When comparing a player with his own teams mates, head to head records are usually decisive. If Hafeez is feasting on mediocre attacks, then what prevented other batsmen from feasting on these attacks?
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This really. Been saying this for ages.

By this logic, we should be invincible against every team besides Aus, SA, Eng and NZ.
 
Azhar
Mukhtar/Shezzy
Hafeez
Haris
Shoaib


That should be our top 5 right there for the foreseeable future.
 
Most 100s in ODIs for Pakistan:
Saeed Anwar 20 (244 innings)
M Yousuf 15 (267)
Hafeez 10 (162)
Ijaz Ahmed 10 (232)
Inzamam 10 (348)
 
miandadrules said:
Don't you think he would be even more successful down the order against stronger teams?
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Well he did make 86 of 89 balls in New Zealand against New Zealand with the likes of Boult and Southee bowling at him before the World cup

If New Zealand is not a stronger team then I don't know which team is.
 
Cricket lover 27 said:
Well he did make 86 of 89 balls in New Zealand against New Zealand with the likes of Boult and Southee bowling at him before the World cup

If New Zealand is not a stronger team then I don't know which team is.
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Salim Elahi made an 80 odd against an Australian side which is considered the greatest ODI team ever, that too in England. Doesn't change the fact he was poor against quality sides and on pitches offering assistance.
[MENTION=100663]mussu-100[/MENTION] acknowledges Hafeez's vulnerability. Where we differ is that I feel he would be a great asset to the limited overs-team if he batted lower down. I mean he would be an asset against all opposition and in all conditions. Mussu feels that we should just accept his failings against better teams.
 
miandadrules said:
Don't you think he would be even more successful down the order against stronger teams?
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Absolutely.

But that would prohibit him from scoring big, which is one his best attributes. And plus we're not exactly spoiled for choice in the top order, hence under the circumstances, it would be in the team's best interest to keep him there.
 
mussu-100 said:
Absolutely.

But that would prohibit him from scoring big, which is one his best attributes. And plus we're not exactly spoiled for choice in the top order, hence under the circumstances, it would be in the team's best interest to keep him there.
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Even though it would mean we are always on the backlit against better teams?

I mean we need all the help we can get against sides like Australia and South Africa, yet your suggested we should disadvantage ourselves further by gifting them a wicket straight up.
 
The amount of games hafeez has won pakistan, with bat and his uses with the ball, proves only that he is a match winning player who can turn the game around.. He is listed to be a senior player, and should never be discarded from the team..
It's always the case with hafeez, that when he's put down in the media, he comes back with a bang !
 
miandadrules said:
Even though it would mean we are always on the backlit against better teams?

I mean we need all the help we can get against sides like Australia and South Africa, yet your suggested we should disadvantage ourselves further by gifting them a wicket straight up.
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Ill happily take a guaranteed failure on tough deck, and have him score loads of runs on easier tracks.

Having him at No.6 poses other problems. We might struggle to beat easier sides if the top order doesn't score. Hafeez's 40 odd won't make much of a difference if we're already 5 down against tougher teams, however, a century at No.3 will count for more, even against a weaker opponent.

Keep him there until we find a brilliant No.3, capable of scoring anywhere. Then moving him to 6 makes sense.

Give him some time, he will start to score against tougher teams, already had bashed NZ on more than a few occasions.
 
mussu-100 said:
Ill happily take a guaranteed failure on tough deck, and have him score loads of runs on easier tracks.

Having him at No.6 poses other problems. We might struggle to beat easier sides if the top order doesn't score. Hafeez's 40 odd won't make much of a difference if we're already 5 down against tougher teams, however, a century at No.3 will count for more, even against a weaker opponent.

Keep him there until we find a brilliant No.3, capable of scoring anywhere. Then moving him to 6 makes sense.

Give him some time, he will start to score against tougher teams, already had bashed NZ on more than a few occasions.
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Have we struggled to beat weak teams without Hafeez?
 
miandadrules said:
Have we struggled to beat weak teams without Hafeez?
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We have struggled whenever Hafeez hasn't scores runs for some reason or the other. Unfortunately in these situations you can never be sure.

Had Hafeez not scored a century and taken 4 wickets today, would we have won? Some might say we would have, but I would disagree.
 
mussu-100 said:
We have struggled whenever Hafeez hasn't scores runs for some reason or the other. Unfortunately in these situations you can never be sure.

Had Hafeez not scored a century and taken 4 wickets today, would we have won? Some might say we would have, but I would disagree.
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So there isn't anything to suggest we would lose to weaker sides.

To put it another way, how many of our players struggle against weaker sides that would prohibit them batting up the order?
 
Inzy batted quite low down for a lot of his career at 4/5 but yes considering how many matches he played he shouldve scored more tons than 10
 
I think, most posters are surprised with Inzi's stats & this is where I posted few months back - Inzi would have been as good a player as any one with better fitness. I have watched almost every innings played by Inzi, at least partially, if not full & that man had unreal ability. BUT, in ODI, countless times, he just looked fish out of water once he had batted for a couple of hours & often almost deliberately blasted himself out. Besides, instead of batting at 3, PAK thick tank put him at 5; when any other team with a better "batting culture" would have straightway put Moyo as opener & Inzi at 3 - Saeed, MoYo & Inzi at 1, 2 & 3 - probably would have scored close to 100 ODI centuries. PAK's strategy was to protect it's main players from "so called" new ball in ODI & put MoYo, Inzi often in a salvage job from 50/3 after 15 overs.
 
miandadrules said:
So there isn't anything to suggest we would lose to weaker sides.

To put it another way, how many of our players struggle against weaker sides that would prohibit them batting up the order?
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Its not about struggling, its about being dominant enough to post a massive score. None of our batsman will struggle against weaker teams, but they won't be posting matchwinning scores either.
 
Inzamam should have been forced to bat at.number 3. He being best batter in the team should have gon in there early.

He could have got at least 25 hundreds
 
I watched a lot of Inzamam's innings and I remember him batting at number 5. He always came in late part of the innings and normally never had enough time to get a 100. Inzy scored 83 50's and had he batted up the order may have converted many of them to bigger scores. Hafeez needs to get more consistent and score against better attacks; Bit of a FTB.
 
Hafeez has serious mental issues. Put him in a big pressure cooker games and he starts sweating before a ball is bowled. In big games he looks so nervous. Compare that with a jamodi and he looks a million dollar vs asian/minnows.

You need your players to step in big games and thats where he bottles it.

I hope for once next big game he just goes out there and plays his shots cause he has them.
 
mussu-100 said:
Its not about struggling, its about being dominant enough to post a massive score. None of our batsman will struggle against weaker teams, but they won't be posting matchwinning scores either.
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I can't agree with you on this. We won't suddenly struggle to beat minnows without Hafeez but we will struggle against stronger teams with him opening.

The difference between our thinking is that I am suggesting solutions to areas of weakness whereas your hoping with time things will improve. I can't see that happening as Hafeez hasn't shown an inclining to address his many technical flaws.

Ultimately, all I care about is Pakistan succeeding. The personnel that are instrumental in bringing that success doesn't matter. If Hafeez proves to be the greatest opener we ever had I would be over the moon but I can't see it happening. If Shoaib Malik goes on an amazing run of form I would be glad that he proved me wrong. If Afridi returns and leads us to great wins I'd be happy eating humble pie. But currently I just don't see that happening.

I think Hafeez coming down the order strengthens the team, adds depth the batting line-up and provides a player with a good head on his shoulders to act as our finisher. If given a trial lower down, even against the best teams I think he will be effective. Once he shows the ability to perform he can gradual move up the order.

I am not willing to sit back and accept failing against the better teams over and over in the hope that things may improve.
 
miandadrules said:
I can't agree with you on this. We won't suddenly struggle to beat minnows without Hafeez but we will struggle against stronger teams with him opening.

The difference between our thinking is that I am suggesting solutions to areas of weakness whereas your hoping with time things will improve. I can't see that happening as Hafeez hasn't shown an inclining to address his many technical flaws.

Ultimately, all I care about is Pakistan succeeding. The personnel that are instrumental in bringing that success doesn't matter. If Hafeez proves to be the greatest opener we ever had I would be over the moon but I can't see it happening. If Shoaib Malik goes on an amazing run of form I would be glad that he proved me wrong. If Afridi returns and leads us to great wins I'd be happy eating humble pie. But currently I just don't see that happening.

I think Hafeez coming down the order strengthens the team, adds depth the batting line-up and provides a player with a good head on his shoulders to act as our finisher. If given a trial lower down, even against the best teams I think he will be effective. Once he shows the ability to perform he can gradual move up the order.

I am not willing to sit back and accept failing against the better teams over and over in the hope that things may improve.
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Thats perfectly fair. But he has grown as a player in recent times and has started to bash better bowling units like NZ. I would give him even more time to prove himself in tougher conditions, and if it doesn't work out, move him to No.4 where he won't be exposed to the new ball.

You do realise that we only have one other player besides Hafeez that has proven to he competent at the top of the order, Azhar. The more pressing issue is who to replace him with.

But I do agree with your notion that he will do a splendid job as a finisher. You need to put some runs on the board first, and then finish the innings.
 
miandadrules said:
I can't agree with you on this. We won't suddenly struggle to beat minnows without Hafeez but we will struggle against stronger teams with him opening.

The difference between our thinking is that I am suggesting solutions to areas of weakness whereas your hoping with time things will improve. I can't see that happening as Hafeez hasn't shown an inclining to address his many technical flaws.

Ultimately, all I care about is Pakistan succeeding. The personnel that are instrumental in bringing that success doesn't matter. If Hafeez proves to be the greatest opener we ever had I would be over the moon but I can't see it happening. If Shoaib Malik goes on an amazing run of form I would be glad that he proved me wrong. If Afridi returns and leads us to great wins I'd be happy eating humble pie. But currently I just don't see that happening.

I think Hafeez coming down the order strengthens the team, adds depth the batting line-up and provides a player with a good head on his shoulders to act as our finisher. If given a trial lower down, even against the best teams I think he will be effective. Once he shows the ability to perform he can gradual move up the order.

I am not willing to sit back and accept failing against the better teams over and over in the hope that things may improve.
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No. Hafeez coming down in the order pushes everyone down, to the point where we have weak accumulators at 6/7 when those positions need batsmen who can up the ante.

If you push Hafeez down to 3rd, Haris gets pushed to 4th. That's fine. But I don't think Babar should be sacrificed yet, he deserves a consistent run. That means he plays 5th? Malik plays 6th (I think Malik should be dropped but won't be). Sarfaraz at 7? And then the bowlers. I don't think that's a threatening enough batting lineup. Pushing him down to 3rd also means Shehzad likely opens, and we can't afford such a stagnant lineup - and I don't think our management has the guts to give Mukhtar a run at opening.

As long as Shoaib Malik and Hafeez are on the same team, Hafeez should open. That's the dilemma we're in.
 
cricfan14 said:
No. Hafeez coming down in the order pushes everyone down, to the point where we have weak accumulators at 6/7 when those positions need batsmen who can up the ante.

If you push Hafeez down to 3rd, Haris gets pushed to 4th. That's fine. But I don't think Babar should be sacrificed yet, he deserves a consistent run. That means he plays 5th? Malik plays 6th (I think Malik should be dropped but won't be). Sarfaraz at 7? And then the bowlers. I don't think that's a threatening enough batting lineup. Pushing him down to 3rd also means Shehzad likely opens, and we can't afford such a stagnant lineup - and I don't think our management has the guts to give Mukhtar a run at opening.

As long as Shoaib Malik and Hafeez are on the same team, Hafeez should open. That's the dilemma we're in.
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Malik in my opinion does to be in the team. I've always maintained that Hafeez bats 6, maybe 5 if the situation calls for it. I count Hafeez as one of the 5 bowlers I would pick, hence we play an extra batsman and 5 front line bowlers.
 
miandadrules said:
Malik in my opinion does to be in the team. I've always maintained that Hafeez bats 6, maybe 5 if the situation calls for it. I count Hafeez as one of the 5 bowlers I would pick, hence we play an extra batsman and 5 front line bowlers.
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5 is the best position for him IMO with 4 if the new ball is seen off. Hafeez is best in the middle overs and the more of middle overs he plays the better for the team. We really shouldn't throw away his wicket against the new ball. He must be preserved in the middle order.

Harris when he returns should bat at 3 followed by Baber at 4 and Hafeez at 5.
 
MRSN said:
5 is the best position for him IMO with 4 if the new ball is seen off. Hafeez is best in the middle overs and the more of middle overs he plays the better for the team. We really shouldn't throw away his wicket against the new ball. He must be preserved in the middle order.

Harris when he returns should bat at 3 followed by Baber at 4 and Hafeez at 5.
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This is what I have been saying all along. If he continues to insist on batting up the order then his place in the team has to be called in to question.
[MENTION=69578]mus[/MENTION]s-100 thinks it's because I have some sort of vendetta against Hafeez.
 
miandadrules said:
Malik in my opinion does to be in the team. I've always maintained that Hafeez bats 6, maybe 5 if the situation calls for it. I count Hafeez as one of the 5 bowlers I would pick, hence we play an extra batsman and 5 front line bowlers.
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Doesn't warrant a place in the team I meant.
 
miandadrules said:
This is what I have been saying all along. If he continues to insist on batting up the order then his place in the team has to be called in to question.
[MENTION=69578]mus[/MENTION]s-100 thinks it's because I have some sort of vendetta against Hafeez.
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This is a valid judgment. The more older the ball the better Hafeez gets. It shouldn't be a rocket science.
 
MRSN said:
This is a valid judgment. The more older the ball the better Hafeez gets. It shouldn't be a rocket science.
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I actually want him to succeed and feel this will optimise his chances.

Sure he won't score massive hundreds at that position but his overall contribution to the team even against the top teams will be far more valuable.

Hafeez lower-down can be utilised in many ways.

He can rebuild if there is a mini-collapse or he can build on a good start.

He may not be a power hitter but if there is a need for big hitting at the death you can promote Sarfraz et al above him. That said I don't think Hafeez is incapable of hitting big, it's just that he doesn't have a "beast" mode but then we don't have that sort of player (Like an Abdul Razzaq or Moin Khan) currently any way.
 
miandadrules said:
I actually want him to succeed and feel this will optimise his chances.

Sure he won't score massive hundreds at that position but his overall contribution to the team even against the top teams will be far more valuable.

Hafeez lower-down can be utilised in many ways.

He can rebuild if there is a mini-collapse or he can build on a good start.

He may not be a power hitter but if there is a need for big hitting at the death you can promote Sarfraz et al above him. That said I don't think Hafeez is incapable of hitting big, it's just that he doesn't have a "beast" mode but then we don't have that sort of player (Like an Abdul Razzaq or Moin Khan) currently any way.
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You ACTUALLY want him to succeed. So you don't ACTUALLY want others to succeed?

& Sarfaraz is far from a big hitter. Never has been. Having the ability to score quickly doesn't mean you are a big hitter at the death.
 
miandadrules said:
I actually want him to succeed and feel this will optimise his chances.

Sure he won't score massive hundreds at that position but his overall contribution to the team even against the top teams will be far more valuable.


He can rebuild if there is a mini-collapse or he can build on a good start.

He may not be a power hitter but if there is a need for big hitting at the death you can promote Sarfraz et al above him. That said I don't think Hafeez is incapable of hitting big, it's just that he doesn't have a "beast" mode but then we don't have that sort of player (Like an Abdul Razzaq or Moin Khan) currently any way.
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Hafeez is no doubt a very good batsman once he survives the initial burst. His conversion rate is pretty amazing. 11 ODI hundreds in last 4 years and couple of tests hundreds too..a double ton and missed once against Sri Lanka as well. All in last 4 years.

The problem is our thick tank lacks common sense.They wo What you and me are debating over is a valid point and it's what can extract the best out of Hafeez as a batsman.

Hafeez is kind of a player who scores run a ball once he is set..He may not have a beast mode but he can certainly get 12 odd runs which is alot considering the batsmen we have.

Another reason why he should be batting at 4-5 is his plus point is playing spin. He is really good player of spin.lots of overs of spin is bowled in the middle overs these days. So we really need someone who can take the spinners to the cleaners and attack them not get bogged down and let them have the upper hand.

Hafeez is no.4,5 bat. He should not be batting above.
 
[MENTION=1080]miandadrules[/MENTION] I never accused you of having a vendetta against him. :yk
 
When are the tests coming out so that this thread goes quiet for a while
 
Bullet Drive said:
You ACTUALLY want him to succeed. So you don't ACTUALLY want others to succeed?

& Sarfaraz is far from a big hitter. Never has been. Having the ability to score quickly doesn't mean you are a big hitter at the death.
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If you can find a single post were I even allude to wanting anyone to fail please feel free to post it. I want Pakistan to succeed.

I never said Sarfraz was a big hitter. I meant that in the current line-up which lacks depth in power-hitting at the death with Hafeez batting at 6, you'd promote Sarfraz above him, as he relatively speaking a better striker.
 
I agree he will be more useful when he comes down the order against better bowling attack.

Play Rizwan at 3 and demote Hafeez to 6
 
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