gazza619
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nah...330 is too much..remember Pakistan bowled and fielding at its worst and yet India only scored 320. If we bowl and field even 50% to our potential, I reckon 275 would be a defendable score.
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Masoomana sawaal : What happens if Pakistan has to bat first in the final?
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nads_rocks
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This time India's 12th man Wahab Riaz is not playing so Pakistan are winning this whether its batting 1st or batting 2nd.
This trophy has Pakistan's name on it
This trophy has Pakistan's name on it
Varun
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Pakistan has to make the decision at the toss on the basis of their strengths, not on what India might prefer more/less.
What if India win the toss? Any case the question is what if Pak aren't playing to their strengths?
All teams succumb to pressure, if that were the case India would win the semi final of 2015 world cup vs Australia, where the half the crowd was supporting India, chasing 340 odd.. which is chaseable for them
Or India would've won the t20 world cup 2016 had they not been defeated by the WI in the semis, they were taken apart and Ashwin, Jadeja had no answer to the onslaught they brought...
India has done well in ICC tourneys but that doesn't mean they don't get under the pressure when they are put under the cosh
Suleiman
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And also the fact that we have chased every game this tournament, so we should feel comfortable doing it.
However, I am tempted to drop Azhar because he doesn't know how to cash in on a phatta which the oval is and bring in Harris. But our management doesn't work like that. They let you play as a batsman regardless of the need of the hour as long as you scored previously, again, no matter what the conditions were.
proud_pakistani
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It's strange but Pakistan getting to 250 or 320 could very well be decided be 2 guys who debuted a couple of matches a go.
Firstly, Fakhar ofcourse has to give us a good start. At the minimum a 50 off 30 odd balls will do nicely.
In the lower order Fahim Ashraf has to finish with a bang. Indians might not expect him to play and might not know much about him. He has to play purely on batting ability alone. He can be the difference between a 280 and a 320 odd.
The rest of the guys ofcourse need to chip in but I will not expect them to bat at a high SR.
Babar is really the one I hope can get a big 100. He is the only one who can score relatively quickly without undue risk and I would like him to bat through and really show why he is apparently the most promising batsman in Pakistan. This is the stage.
Firstly, Fakhar ofcourse has to give us a good start. At the minimum a 50 off 30 odd balls will do nicely.
In the lower order Fahim Ashraf has to finish with a bang. Indians might not expect him to play and might not know much about him. He has to play purely on batting ability alone. He can be the difference between a 280 and a 320 odd.
The rest of the guys ofcourse need to chip in but I will not expect them to bat at a high SR.
Babar is really the one I hope can get a big 100. He is the only one who can score relatively quickly without undue risk and I would like him to bat through and really show why he is apparently the most promising batsman in Pakistan. This is the stage.
That sounds exactly like what happened on June 4th, except that India could not even get to 220 but was all out for 164.
Getting Rohit/Dhawan/Kohli out will expose Yuvi/Jhadav/Dhoni who have all scored centuries in recent games, to be followed by sloggers Pandya and Jadeja.
How did the bowling line up get taken apart in 2011? IIRC they scored 260 something and that too after like 5 dropped catches.
Varun
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If India win the toss we will surely chase. Pakistan has to score as much as possible: you'd think a score of 320 or over will be out of reach.
In fact, make it 300 because it's a final.
Sidilicious
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Ifs and Buts.
If Dhawan hadn't hit a poor delivery straight to the fielder and if Rohit hadn't had the unlucky runout, or if there were no breaks, India could have also scored 350. None of that happened, so you can't say that India would not have scored despite all you stated above. For all you know Pandya would have smacked a 15 ball 50. He did after all smack 3 sixes of the 5 balls he faced.
Sidilicious
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I'd rather our target not be more than a 275. Anything more than that could be troublesome in a final.
If we can get Fakhar Zaman and SHobby Malik out early, it would go a long way in ensuring that.
Varun
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Fakhar Zaman - like Salman Butt and Nasir Jamshed before him - is exactly the kind of guy who will do well against us. We thrive against Pakistan's conventional batsmen who play like kittens, but this guy looks like he breaks the mould and can do the bulk of the scoring for them at a brisk pace too.
If we don't get him below 40 if they bat first, it would mean trouble.
Sidilicious
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Nah mate. Even a 40 from Fakhar Zaman would give them a lot of breathing space. If he scores a 40, it would be in approx 25 balls. So, after 8 overs, I would expect there score to be around 60. That would give their other batsmen, especially Shobby Malik some time to set in and that could be dangerous. We can't give Shoaib Malik and Babar Azam the breathing space. We need to get Fakhar Zaman within 25 runs and ensure that Babar Azam and Shoaib Malik are under pressure from the word go.
Hopefully we win the toss and chase, but if we have to bat first then we need to post 300+. Anything less and it will be advantage India.
Saying that, if we nip out the top 3 for under 120 then I see us winning, their middle/lower order hasn't been tested much in this tournament and I feel they will be under some serious pressure if top 3 go reasonably cheaply.
Dhawan and Kohli are the HUGE wickets.
Saying that, if we nip out the top 3 for under 120 then I see us winning, their middle/lower order hasn't been tested much in this tournament and I feel they will be under some serious pressure if top 3 go reasonably cheaply.
Dhawan and Kohli are the HUGE wickets.
Pak is NOT a 300+ team, they simply can't put up such a score.If Pak bat first, then the best we can expect from them is 280-290.They will have to bowl India out for less than that, if india scores that then they will be deserving winners and we shouldn't then complain.
I think everyone knows we are not a 300+ team, all I am saying is we bat first then that's what we will have to post 300 to have a good chance of winning.
ExpressPacer
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If Pakistan foes out to bat first, the best Pakistan will be able to do is post a total around 250, which is going to be a walk in the park for India who will chase it in similar fashion as they did versus Bangladesh.
BlueAngel
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I think India is under more pressure this time. Pakistan has nothing to loose, they have already achieved which no one expected from them, winning the trophy is just a bonus for them.
On the other hand India has to live up to the expectations of being the favorites from the start and so much pressure piled up on them by social media and media (sehwag, Ganguly etc and fans about beta baap thingy) that they may buckle under it. If it was any other team then losing the final wasnt a big deal but with Pak its a different story.
Hope Kohli and team had media blackout policy for the tournament.
On the other hand India has to live up to the expectations of being the favorites from the start and so much pressure piled up on them by social media and media (sehwag, Ganguly etc and fans about beta baap thingy) that they may buckle under it. If it was any other team then losing the final wasnt a big deal but with Pak its a different story.
Hope Kohli and team had media blackout policy for the tournament.
shokz1408
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That's true, bowling like we have for the last 3 games and no wahab riaz leaking runs, we in theory should give away less runs. It's just that India have big match players use to this kind of pressure, and it's scary that they can chase anything down. Though maybe nerves in the final may show, minimum I'd say 300 for the psychological advantage, a 200 and something score and India can pace it accordingly. It'll go down to our bowlers in the end, can they reproduce what they have done for the last 3 games, I really hope so. I think now more than ever, I feel we could actually topple india over.
hadi123
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anything under 300 will not be enough for Pakistan if we bat first. We will need 330+ at least
Batting first, Pak needs to set 300 target to win. If India bats first, Pak can't chase above 260.
Pakistan is playing with ONLY 3 specialist batsman. Two of their specialist batsman are new. Shoib and Hafeez are not specialist batsman and really shouldn't be in the team.
Pakistan is playing with ONLY 3 specialist batsman. Two of their specialist batsman are new. Shoib and Hafeez are not specialist batsman and really shouldn't be in the team.
F0ulu
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June 4th and June 18th are worlds apart. India has since lost their key player Wahab Riaz to injury, obliterating any chance they had at the trophy.
Flat_Track_Bully
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Pakistan have gone into trance of haal. It doesn't matter if they bat first.
Syed1
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330 is par score for bowling line ups like India and England not the best bowling attack in the world.
Lynx
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Pakistan's chances of victory depend on winning the toss and bowling first. If India chase, then we might as well not bother watching the match. Batting first, expecting a very BD-esque performance by our batting line up which will drag us to 250-260.
Syed1
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Will you bother watching if we put up 300?
you were high on confidence like this before previous india game.. we all saw your reaction after that game was over. I see it again. I would like to see your reaction if Pak lose this game.
Pakistan batting first is the only way they can win against India. But it's not going to happen though as whoever wins the toss, it's India who are going to bat first and that will be it for Pakistan. Those who are saying Pakistan should chase clearly have no thinking and are just playing into India's hands and sadly(fortunately for India), Pakistan captain/coach and you are most probably thinking alike
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Syed1
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Is India's batting lineup better than SA and Eng?
Bhai jaan, all of that is plausible but what I'm referring to are dropped catches, but ones which should be taken are like missed penalty chances, you can't allow them to be missed if you are a top quality team..
You are allowing the opposition back in the game by dropping catches of players like Yuvraj and Kohli
Against Pakistan, yes. Because your spinners can't tie down Indian batsmen in the middle like you did against England.
Syed1
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That's a good point, however, our spinners role has been to play the holding game and not allow for easy runs thus making the opposition batsmen attack Amir/Junaid/Hasan and hence lose their wickets. Remains to be seen if the same strategy can work against India who will attack the spinners and not fall in the trap.
India dropped more catches and had a worse day on the field, still you guys scored only 160. Moreover, India still had Dhoni, Jadeja, Pandya, Jadeja to come to bat even if you had taken those catches. So the final score wouldn't have been much different.
Not really, we had alot of injuries at the end actually, both our bowlers went out injured.. so you were lucky actually to not face a Pakistani attack on full throttle, and were left with spanking Imad wasim in the last over
Which one of these batsmen are top scorers during the tournament? None, usually untested batsmen get out when pressure mounts on them..
Plus all these names are no match for a full throttle Pakistan attack which can even take the home side down, you guys are player for player inferior to them
Lol. I hope our batsmen aren't as deluded and don't go with this mindset, need 330+.
They're very capable of countering our attack.
The pitch in the final is going to be much different to the one in the first semi. That will negate Pakistan's bowling attack considerably. As an Indian, I fear 3 players in the final. First one is Fakhar by far. Babar is due a big one. And Hassan if India bat second(hope some sense prevails in Indian management and bat first if they win the toss).
dauntless
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If have to bat first score 320 at least my only fear is virat and shikhar need to get these guys out and then match is set.
#no mercy
#no mercy
Lynx
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Yes, as I didn't say we SHOULDN'T watch. Implying that Pakistan's chances of winning would be significantly reduced if India are chasing, as whatever total we manage to muster up, India is going to chase it comprehensively. We're over selling our bowling attack, as good as it might have been against other sides. Hafeez/Imad won't be able to build as much pressure against India's batting lineup. Runs will flow freely. Would be interesting to see how our pacers respond then.
Aren't you an Indian?
Lynx
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Yes, as I didn't say we SHOULDN'T watch. Implying that Pakistan's chances of winning would be significantly reduced if India are chasing, as whatever total we manage to muster up, India is going to chase it comprehensively. We're over selling our bowling attack, as good as it might have been against other sides. Hafeez/Imad won't be able to build as much pressure against India's batting lineup. Runs will flow freely. Would be interesting to see how our pacers respond then.
You're going to experience it on the 18th. Bring it on!
dauntless
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So what?? Can't I support other countries?? Remember Democratic country??
dauntless
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India need more people like you
LOL! No!! India need patriotics!! I m afraid I m not patriotic enough!
iniqbal223
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More than batting and bowling, I fear dropped catches, whenever india batted first..
In every big India v Pak match, we dropped sitters at crucial time
2007 t20 final : Hafeez dropped rohit sharma. and he went on to score 30 of 15 balls
2011 wc semis : no need to say anything
2015 wc : great and highly talented akmals
2017 ct : hassan and fakhar
while in 2012,2013,2014 and 2016 t20s , we never scored runs..
In every big India v Pak match, we dropped sitters at crucial time
2007 t20 final : Hafeez dropped rohit sharma. and he went on to score 30 of 15 balls
2011 wc semis : no need to say anything
2015 wc : great and highly talented akmals
2017 ct : hassan and fakhar
while in 2012,2013,2014 and 2016 t20s , we never scored runs..
iniqbal223
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Not sure what will happen with India batting vs Pak bowling..
But thats for sure that, India bowling has always tormented our batting since 2007 in global tournaments.
Wheneever we batted first, we scored below average scores, and India also knows that well
But thats for sure that, India bowling has always tormented our batting since 2007 in global tournaments.
Wheneever we batted first, we scored below average scores, and India also knows that well
IMMY69
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Its a final so forget these 300+ scores in previous bi lateral matches and those in the group games..
If one team can get to a score of 300 or over then chances are they will win providing they bowl well and take their chances.
I'm far more confident going in to this game because in the first game against India we dropped both Kohli and Yuvraj at crucial moments and had Wahab who bowled extremely erratically and lost us momentum in the field and gave away a crazy amount of runs.
If one team can get to a score of 300 or over then chances are they will win providing they bowl well and take their chances.
I'm far more confident going in to this game because in the first game against India we dropped both Kohli and Yuvraj at crucial moments and had Wahab who bowled extremely erratically and lost us momentum in the field and gave away a crazy amount of runs.
iniqbal223
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ONE Weird history is with Pakistan..
In ALL ICC TOURNAMENTS(except 1975 world cup) WHOEVER HAS KNOCKED OUT THE HOSTS IN KNOCKOUT STAGES... WENT ON TO WIN THE FINALS..
Pak team should be highly confident .. and attack India..Showing meek performance will only lead to a downfall..
In ALL ICC TOURNAMENTS(except 1975 world cup) WHOEVER HAS KNOCKED OUT THE HOSTS IN KNOCKOUT STAGES... WENT ON TO WIN THE FINALS..
Pak team should be highly confident .. and attack India..Showing meek performance will only lead to a downfall..
iniqbal223
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1979 WC : West Indies defeated England in finals
1983 WC : India beaten England in semis.
1987 WC : Australia beaten India
1992 WC : Pak beat both NZ and Australia
1996 WC : SL beat India in semis..--> SL winners
1998 CT : Bangladesh did not qualify
1999 WC : England did not qualifiy for knockouts
2000 CT : Kenya did not make it to knockouts
2002 CT : India vs SL draw , SL was host
2003 WC : SA did not qualify for knockouts
2004 CT : West Indies defeated England, hosts
2006 CT : Australia knocked out India , (Last group game, was virtual quarterfinal)
2007 WC : No knockouts, WestIndies were thrashed by all semifinalists (Aus,NZ,Sa,SL)
2007 T20 : India beat SA in virtual quarter finals to qualify for super 6
2009 T20 : England did not qualify for semis..
2009 CT : SA did not manage to reach semis..
2010 T20 : WI did not qualify for knockouts
2011 WC : India beat SL ; another host
2012 T20 : WI beat SL
2013 CT : India beat England
2014 T20 : Bangladesh did not qualify in knockouts..
2015 WC : Aus beat NZ , another host
2016 T20 : WI beat India
1983 WC : India beaten England in semis.
1987 WC : Australia beaten India
1992 WC : Pak beat both NZ and Australia
1996 WC : SL beat India in semis..--> SL winners
1998 CT : Bangladesh did not qualify
1999 WC : England did not qualifiy for knockouts
2000 CT : Kenya did not make it to knockouts
2002 CT : India vs SL draw , SL was host
2003 WC : SA did not qualify for knockouts
2004 CT : West Indies defeated England, hosts
2006 CT : Australia knocked out India , (Last group game, was virtual quarterfinal)
2007 WC : No knockouts, WestIndies were thrashed by all semifinalists (Aus,NZ,Sa,SL)
2007 T20 : India beat SA in virtual quarter finals to qualify for super 6
2009 T20 : England did not qualify for semis..
2009 CT : SA did not manage to reach semis..
2010 T20 : WI did not qualify for knockouts
2011 WC : India beat SL ; another host
2012 T20 : WI beat SL
2013 CT : India beat England
2014 T20 : Bangladesh did not qualify in knockouts..
2015 WC : Aus beat NZ , another host
2016 T20 : WI beat India
geraltofrivia
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Complete confirmation bias.
1. You EXCLUDE 1975.
2. 2006 - You include a virtual quarterfinal
3. 2007 - There were knockouts - the semis
4. So many not qualified etc
What you are doing is adding as much qualifiers to the data to support your point. It's called confirmation bias.
Abdullah719
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I guess we'll find out soon. 
Khwaja
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Fresh batting pitch... Let's go Azhar and Fakhar get a 150+ partnership...
DrSchultz
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wohi purani script chal jaye gi
pak to set around 250. india good start. lose a few wickets in middle overs.
pak get hopeful.
but then India smoothly chase
pak to set around 250. india good start. lose a few wickets in middle overs.
pak get hopeful.
but then India smoothly chase
Bhaag Viru Bhaag
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Anything over 250 and Pakistan will be favorites. Pakistan won't go down without fighting under sarfaraz's captaincy. Mouth watering contest.
shokz1408
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I guess we'd score 338 XD What a batting performance!
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