Modi supporters attack Khalistanis, Kashmiris in London

msaaim89

Tape Ball Star
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Runs
949
https://www.geo.tv/latest/230588-modi-supporters-attack-khalistanis-kashmiris-in-london


LONDON: A protest demanding end of atrocities against Sikhs and Kashmiris by the Indian government turned violent here in central London, with at least three people injured and two arrested by Scotland Yard.

The protest was mainly organised by a host of Sikh organisations seeking release of Sikh prisoners in Indian jails. The Sikh demonstrators were supported by Kashmiri groups who also joined the protest carrying flags of Kashmir.

The Sikh protesters carried banners demanding the creation of Khalistan, and protested imprisonment of Sikh activists by Indian government for posting Facebook messages in support of Khalistan and detention and convictions of dozens of Sikhs on bogus charges.

The protesters said that amongst those detained by India were British nationals who were picked up and convicted during their visits to Punjab in India. They mentioned, in particular, Ranjit Singh, Surjit Singh and Arvinder Singh, who were jailed over Facebook posts.

The protest continued peacefully till a pro-Modi group arrived on the scene and started shouting abuses at the peaceful protesters and produced placards disrespectful of Sikh religious symbols.

In the clashes that followed, the whole of area around Holborn and the London School of Economics was brought to a standstill for sometime as dozens of police vans arrived to police the protest.

Bottles were thrown on Khalistani and Kashmiri protesters from Modi supporters and then the clashes started.

Activists from both sides exchanged fists and the Indian flag was brought down by Sikh protesters from outside the Indian High Commission. Three people were injured during the clashes.

Farid Qureshi, a Pakistani reporter working for a private channel, received injuries to his nose and eye after he was hit with an object during the fight. He told this scribe that he was performing his duty when he was attacked. The police ambulance provided him first aid along with two other injured.

Two protesters were seen being handcuffed by the police for getting involved in the physical fight. One protester was seen with blood pouring down his face.

Joga Singh of the World Sikh Parliament, speaking to the gathered international media, called for urgent steps to stop a war that would devastate the Sikh homeland and population.

Amrik Singh Sahota, Council of Khalistan, urged Sikhs and Kashmiris in Indian-controlled territories to act to stop the war and for Sikh soldiers to return to Punjab and protect its people in case full-scale hostilities break out.

Dupinderjeet Singh and Parmjit Singh Pamma, Sikhs for Justice, demanded that a plebiscite in Kashmir be held, along with a referendum in Indian-occupied Punjab so that democratic outcomes may underpin permanent resolution of conflicts in those regions.

Balbir Singh Bains, Sikh Relief, called for the immediate release of Sikh political prisoners by India, including three recently jailed for life simply for non-violent activism linked to the Sikh struggle for self-determination.

Kashmiri leaders also urged global action to follow up the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights 2018 report calling for a halt to Indian hostilities in Kashmir and the delivery of long promised self-determination in the disputed territory.

Naeem Abbasi of Overseas Pakistanis Welfare Organisation said that the international media's exposure of India's false claims over its "air strike" last month had already badly damaged Modi's propaganda efforts.

He said: “Going by events in London today, his Hindutva agenda will face many more challenges in the weeks and months ahead.”
 
Interesting strategy from the worlds largest democracy - suppress, suppress, suppress.
 
<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 100.000%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/dnbtm/hbwvgs" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It is only gonna get worse for India. For twenty years they have been celebrating terrorism in Pak. It is interesting to see the shoe on the other foot.
 
Hindu nationalists think they can openly attack and hurt minorities even if they are not in india. I hope they are proven wrong here!
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Members of Babar Khalsa turned violent and attacked Indians in front of Indian High Commission in London on 9th March in the Afternoon <a href="https://t.co/IrGk3CCTFV">pic.twitter.com/IrGk3CCTFV</a></p>— TAG TV (@TAGTVCANADA) <a href="https://twitter.com/TAGTVCANADA/status/1104460634383622144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 9, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Hindu nationalists think they can openly attack and hurt minorities even if they are not in india. I hope they are proven wrong here!

I cant see post #3 but if you watch the videos Modi fans threw items from a distance and were chased away with a few getting a good hiding. They cant attack Sikhs/Pakistanis/Kashmiris in the UK and walk away with no response.
 
Let’s see how the Indian government and its media spin this to their people.
 
Charge those who insitgated the violence...This was supposed to be a peaceful protest.
 
Charge those who insitgated the violence...This was supposed to be a peaceful protest.

Modi supporters showed up disturbing the peace by throwing projectiles, injuring a journalist in the process.

In return they were chased by Khalistan and Kashmir protesters.
 
Indian government/press can take an orange and make its people believe its an apple...

They are blinded by their nationalism and it’s eye opening.. I suppose we now have a glimpse as to how it must have been in Nazi Germany
 
I wouldn't worry about this, hardly made the mainstream news. Looks like a small scale disturbance from the video footage. Although I see that some Indian news media blamed the protest on ISI. :facepalm:
 
Pakistani source. Other news sources are reporting both sides of the story.

https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2...monstrators-clash-outside-embassy-london.html

Interesting to see that the Khalistanis were shouting slogans like "Naraa-e-Taqbeer" and "Allah-u-Akbar".

Sikhs have had a close association with Muslims dating back to the days of muslim sufis. Their gurus have had a close friendship with sufis and Sikhism is partly inspired by Islam as much as hinduism. I dont see anything wrong with them shiuting those slogans. If hindu nationalism is driving them close to Muslims, how is that their or Muslims’ fault?
 
Sikhs have had a close association with Muslims dating back to the days of muslim sufis. Their gurus have had a close friendship with sufis and Sikhism is partly inspired by Islam as much as hinduism. I dont see anything wrong with them shiuting those slogans. If hindu nationalism is driving them close to Muslims, how is that their or Muslims’ fault?

Looool

Sikhs association with Muslims. I have seen it all.

Khalistan itself is a joke and you have a bunch of Muslims chanting takbir allahu akbar with them. :))
 
The obsession with Modi on this forum is hilarious. So many threads on him on a daily basis.
 
Looool

Sikhs association with Muslims. I have seen it all.

Khalistan itself is a joke and you have a bunch of Muslims chanting takbir allahu akbar with them. :))

Hindu ignorance is hindu bliss..

Sikhs and Muslims go way back, unlike what you guys are taught. Yes, there were igly episodes in history but sikhs and sufi muslim scholars in Punjab have a long association.

Who laid the foundation of Sri Harminder
https://barusahib.org/general/today...i-harmandir-sahib-amritsar-laid-sai-mian-mir/

Some more sikh sources:
http://www.sikhnet.com/news/sufi-and-sikh

https://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/76777-influence-of-islam-and-sufism-on-sikhism/

http://sikhchic.com/columnists/the_sikhsufi_connection
 
Looool

Sikhs association with Muslims. I have seen it all.

Khalistan itself is a joke and you have a bunch of Muslims chanting takbir allahu akbar with them. :))

The struggle against a common oppressor has a history of uniting different factions.. Read Indian history. :)
 
Hindu ignorance is hindu bliss..

Sikhs and Muslims go way back, unlike what you guys are taught. Yes, there were igly episodes in history but sikhs and sufi muslim scholars in Punjab have a long association.

Who laid the foundation of Sri Harminder
https://barusahib.org/general/today...i-harmandir-sahib-amritsar-laid-sai-mian-mir/

Some more sikh sources:
http://www.sikhnet.com/news/sufi-and-sikh

https://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/76777-influence-of-islam-and-sufism-on-sikhism/

http://sikhchic.com/columnists/the_sikhsufi_connection

There were 10 Sikh gurus, starting with Guru Nanak.

#5 Guru Arjan Dev, executed by Muslims
#6 Guru Har Gobind defeated the Mughal troops near Amritsar in the Battle of Amritsar in 1634.
#7 Guru Hari Rai excommunicated his elder son Ram Rai for changing a verse in the Adi Granth to appease Aurangzeb instead of standing by the Sikh scripture.
#8 Guru Har Krishan died at age 8 from smallpox.
#9 Guru Teg Bahadur executed by Aurangzeb after watching his followers Bhai Mati Das was sawn into pieces; Bhai Dayal Das thrown into a cauldron of boiling water; and Bhai Sati Das was burned alive by the Mughals.
#10 Guru Gobind Singh killed by assassins sent either by the Mughals or by the Muslim king Wazir Khan.

While you hang on to your delusions about the history of Sikhs and Muslims, you may consider the etymology of the names Gobind, Hari, Krishan, Arjan etc.
 
Last edited:
There were 10 Sikh gurus, starting with Guru Nanak.

#5 Guru Arjan Dev, executed by Muslims
#6 Guru Har Gobind defeated the Mughal troops near Amritsar in the Battle of Amritsar in 1634.
#7 Guru Hari Rai excommunicated his elder son Ram Rai for changing a verse in the Adi Granth to appease Aurangzeb instead of standing by the Sikh scripture.
#8 Guru Har Krishan died at age 8 from smallpox.
#9 Guru Teg Bahadur executed by Aurangzeb after watching his followers Bhai Mati Das was sawn into pieces; Bhai Dayal Das thrown into a cauldron of boiling water; and Bhai Sati Das was burned alive by the Mughals.
#10 Guru Gobind Singh killed by assassins sent either by the Mughals or by the Muslim king Wazir Khan.

While you hang on to your delusions about the history of Sikhs and Muslims, you may consider the etymology of the names Gobind, Hari, Krishan, Arjan etc.

So you are refuting the direct Sikh sources i cited? Did you even read those?

Sikhism’s origins are influenced by Sufi Islam.
The rest was all politics. The mughals were not Muslim prophets or representatives of Islam. Thats like saying ISIS or Taliban are the true faces of Muslims. If you believe in that sort of bigotry, well what can I say.
 
So you are refuting the direct Sikh sources i cited? Did you even read those?

Sikhism’s origins are influenced by Sufi Islam.
The rest was all politics. The mughals were not Muslim prophets or representatives of Islam. Thats like saying ISIS or Taliban are the true faces of Muslims. If you believe in that sort of bigotry, well what can I say.

You are trying to infer something that is incorrect. Sikhism may have been influenced by the Sufis, but that does not mean Sikhs feel any sort of kinship to Muslims.

Muslims regards Moses and Christ as prophets, but that doesn't prevent Christians/Jews and Muslims to be at each other's throats for over a thousand years.

Unlike you, I have actually lived in India and had multiple Sikh friends. In fact growing up in Delhi more than half of my inner circle of friends were Sikhs. Sorry to dash your fond hopes, but there is no fissure between Sikhs and Hindus in India, notwithstanding whatever some expat Sikhs may have told you.

FYI... Hari, Gobind, Krishan are all names of Vishnu, and Arjan was Vishnu's devotee.
 
Indian nationalists must understand that they can only physically abuse minorities inside India with protection of Modi.
Actually not only abuse but they can massacre them and still walk free to boast on camera. That's the true beauty of India.

Outside India... countries have laws and stuff.

Sad state of affairs.
 
Most of these khalistanis have been kicked out of India or are wanted for criminal offences. They find solace in Pakistanis and Kashmiri's, as they have a common Agenda (hatred towards India). I am Sikh myself and do not take these potheads seriously and why do people take them seriously here on PP? well that's not rocket science is it?
 
You are trying to infer something that is incorrect. Sikhism may have been influenced by the Sufis, but that does not mean Sikhs feel any sort of kinship to Muslims.

Muslims regards Moses and Christ as prophets, but that doesn't prevent Christians/Jews and Muslims to be at each other's throats for over a thousand years.

Unlike you, I have actually lived in India and had multiple Sikh friends. In fact growing up in Delhi more than half of my inner circle of friends were Sikhs. Sorry to dash your fond hopes, but there is no fissure between Sikhs and Hindus in India, notwithstanding whatever some expat Sikhs may have told you.

FYI... Hari, Gobind, Krishan are all names of Vishnu, and Arjan was Vishnu's devotee.

Kinship is with people and not ideology as you correctly surmised. I have lived in nankana sahib area (pakistan punjab) with quite a few sikhs and they obviously feel kinship with muslims rather than hindus.

i never expressed any hopes that hindus and sikhs have any “fissures” but it all comes down to politics. Just as mughal actions may have drove a wedge between muslims and sikhs, there are sikhs who feel the same way now about the hindu nationalist government. In countries such as UK they can freely protest without any fear for reprisal and perhaps thats why you feel in india you did not see such sentiment amongst the Sikhs.

Regardless, i know you wont agree with me nor I with you, because now we are entering a political domain and that has no bearing on the spirit of what i am trying to say because politics is always murky waters.

My point simply was, historically Sikhism was/is influenced by Islam particularly in its monotheist ideology and there is historically documented evidence of good relations between Sikh Gurus and Muslim sufis and one of the Muslim sufis even helped lay the foundation for the Golden Temple.
 
By the way, i am just curious, why would indians here insist that muslims and sikhs cant be on cordial terms inspite of this video? Did ISI help put so many sikhs and muslims together to protest in UK? Is that the point?

ISI is one smart and resourceful organization if thats what the indians are trying to say.. lol
 
Most of these khalistanis have been kicked out of India or are wanted for criminal offences. They find solace in Pakistanis and Kashmiri's, as they have a common Agenda (hatred towards India). I am Sikh myself and do not take these potheads seriously and why do people take them seriously here on PP? well that's not rocket science is it?
So all these tens of sikhs (possibly hundreds) living in UK are potheads and criminals?
 
So all these tens of sikhs (possibly hundreds) living in UK are potheads and criminals?

most likely, but the one thing you did not quote and which should have been raised is, if they have a common Agenda i.e. hatred towards India.....
 
Sikhism is very influenced by Sufi Islam-the majority hymns in our holy book are by Muslim Sufi saints.

One of my favourite hymns by Sant Kabir-

 
So you are refuting the direct Sikh sources i cited? Did you even read those?

Sikhism’s origins are influenced by Sufi Islam.
The rest was all politics. The mughals were not Muslim prophets or representatives of Islam. Thats like saying ISIS or Taliban are the true faces of Muslims. If you believe in that sort of bigotry, well what can I say.

Why do you think Sikhs migrated to India during partition? If the bond between Muslims and Sikhs is/was so cordial, all the Sikhs would have migrated to Pakistan.

Sikhs have nothing in common with Muslims. Not even names.
 
Why do you think Sikhs migrated to India during partition? If the bond between Muslims and Sikhs is/was so cordial, all the Sikhs would have migrated to Pakistan.

Sikhs have nothing in common with Muslims. Not even names.
... thats a very convincing argument.. the solid evidence you cited has really shut me up... BRAVO!!!!

LMAO..
 
Sikhism is very influenced by Sufi Islam-the majority hymns in our holy book are by Muslim Sufi saints.

One of my favourite hymns by Sant Kabir-


Well, apparently Troodon, who I am guessing is NOT a sikh, knows more about Sikhs than you, a Sikh, himself knows!
 
most likely, but the one thing you did not quote and which should have been raised is, if they have a common Agenda i.e. hatred towards India.....
Bhai meray, what does raising that point have anything to do with one i am trying to make?

Its all politics, is my point! Besides, If they have hatred, which i am not arguing is true or not... perhaps the question you should be asking is “what caused it”

If your answer is its Pakistan propaganda or ISI, you give us too much credit and yourselves none at all!
 
Sikhism is very influenced by Sufi Islam-the majority hymns in our holy book are by Muslim Sufi saints.

One of my favourite hymns by Sant Kabir-


This is quite interesting and not something I was aware of. How do Sikhs in general view Muslims and Muslim rule of the Indian subcontinent?

I ones I have personally known have a far better opinion of Muslims than the Hindus and the reverse is also true but that might just be a very small minority.
 
... thats a very convincing argument.. the solid evidence you cited has really shut me up... BRAVO!!!!

LMAO..

Laugh at your own peril. We Modi supporters are now high on protein diet and have started going to gym and walking with swag. It is not the half bare skinny ghandi, but the oak chested man-mountain Modi who is our icon, so count yourself lucky that you don't have to face us in real life and all you can do it troll us from the safety of your basement.
 
Laugh at your own peril. We Modi supporters are now high on protein diet and have started going to gym and walking with swag. It is not the half bare skinny ghandi, but the oak chested man-mountain Modi who is our icon, so count yourself lucky that you don't have to face us in real life and all you can do it troll us from the safety of your basement.

Yaar Modi ko her jaga kyon drag kartey ho aap log? Usskey baghair khana hazam nahi hota?
 
This is quite interesting and not something I was aware of. How do Sikhs in general view Muslims and Muslim rule of the Indian subcontinent?

I ones I have personally known have a far better opinion of Muslims than the Hindus and the reverse is also true but that might just be a very small minority.
Why do we drag “muslim” rule into everything? None of the sub/“-continental rulers were true Muslims... they were Kings for God’s sake.

The true story of Muslim-Sikh association is within the Guru-Sufi friendship and how both sides were motivated by the Oneness of God.
 
So all these tens of sikhs (possibly hundreds) living in UK are potheads and criminals?

By the way, i am just curious, why would indians here insist that muslims and sikhs cant be on cordial terms inspite of this video? Did ISI help put so many sikhs and muslims together to protest in UK? Is that the point?

ISI is one smart and resourceful organization if thats what the indians are trying to say.. lol

Individual Sikhs and Muslims will of course get along fine (and some "Sikhs" may even badmouth "Hindus" privately to their special friend [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]) but Sikhs as a community will never align with Muslims against Hindus.

I assume you are sincere, so I will tell you why. The history that Sikhs are taught about their origins from the 5th Guru onwards is one of struggle against Muslims. Besides Gurus 5 to 10 who I mentioned earlier, another hero for Sikhs is Banda Bahadur. This is how he died.

Banda Singh Bahadur was put into an iron cage and the remaining Sikhs were chained. The Sikhs were brought to Delhi in a procession with the 780 Sikh prisoners, 2,000 Sikh heads hung on spears, and 700 cartloads of heads of slaughtered Sikhs used to terrorise the population. They were put in the Delhi fort and pressured to give up their faith and become Muslims.

The prisoners remained unmoved. On their firm refusal these non-converters were ordered to be executed. Every day a few were brought out of the fort and murdered in public. This continued for approximately seven days.[45] After three months of confinement, on 9 June 1716, Banda Singh's eyes were gouged out, his limbs were severed, his skin removed, and then he was killed.

The only time there has been a riot between Sikhs and Hindus was after the assassination of Indira Gandhi, when Congress cadres upset at the loss of their golden goose attacked Sikhs. Note that it was the Congress, not the alleged Hindutva BJP which was behind this riot.

Why do you think Sikhs migrated to India during partition? If the bond between Muslims and Sikhs is/was so cordial, all the Sikhs would have migrated to Pakistan.

Sikhs have nothing in common with Muslims. Not even names.

As someone who has actually lived with Sikhs, and even continues to communicate with Sikh classmates on a regular basis I can say the distance between a Sikh and a Hindu is no more than the distance between a Tamil and an Oriya, or a Marathi and a Assamese, a very small distance indeed. We realize we have something different, but that does not stop us from feeling united as Indians.
 
There was an LTTE support rally here in Chicago a while ago. People carried placards and walked peacefully for a few hours. Then they went home and back to their minimum wage jobs the next day.

Terrorist groups also have a right to peacefully demonstrate. Nothing wrong with that. The foreign governments aren't as patient as India or Sri Lanka or Pakistan with violence. They clip their wings as soon as these terrorists arrive in the west and let them carry placards with freedom. Don't read too much into these. It helps with West's image of being tolerant.
 
This is quite interesting and not something I was aware of. How do Sikhs in general view Muslims and Muslim rule of the Indian subcontinent?

I ones I have personally known have a far better opinion of Muslims than the Hindus and the reverse is also true but that might just be a very small minority.

Individual Sikhs and Muslims will of course get along fine (and some "Sikhs" may even badmouth "Hindus" privately to their special friend [MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION]) but Sikhs as a community will never align with Muslims against Hindus.

I assume you are sincere, so I will tell you why. The history that Sikhs are taught about their origins from the 5th Guru onwards is one of struggle against Muslims. Besides Gurus 5 to 10 who I mentioned earlier, another hero for Sikhs is Banda Bahadur. This is how he died.



The only time there has been a riot between Sikhs and Hindus was after the assassination of Indira Gandhi, when Congress cadres upset at the loss of their golden goose attacked Sikhs. Note that it was the Congress, not the alleged Hindutva BJP which was behind this riot.



As someone who has actually lived with Sikhs, and even continues to communicate with Sikh classmates on a regular basis I can say the distance between a Sikh and a Hindu is no more than the distance between a Tamil and an Oriya, or a Marathi and a Assamese, a very small distance indeed. We realize we have something different, but that does not stop us from feeling united as Indians.

... and yet thats what is happening in London. It is politics indeed but it is ridiculous to suggest they will “never” align with Muslims, given their association in the past, which obviously you were quite ignorant of. It is fine and dandy to remain abreast of current political situation, but Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus share a history that goes far back. What some Indians fail to understand is that inspite of this history, good or bad, we are not one nation but that in no way should mean we cannot be friends.

With that said and done, i am still waiting on your response as to what is going on in London, then. Is it a case of Muslims siding with Sikhs and Sikhs just laying down an epic phainty on Hindu nationalists ignoring Muslims there!

Was it like a buffet deal situation? I have a choice as to whose behind to whoop, lets see I have kashmiris here and I have some Nationalist Hindus... who do I go with?

I guess i am in the mood for some Modi supporters today...


Is that how it played out?
 
Last edited:
I cant see post #3 but if you watch the videos Modi fans threw items from a distance and were chased away with a few getting a good hiding. They cant attack Sikhs/Pakistanis/Kashmiris in the UK and walk away with no response.

Well I am going to give them props anyway, it would have been unthinkable a few years ago for Indians to even throw items from a distance regardless of whether they ended up getting a hiding. Modi and the BJP has certainly given some supporters at least some aggressive traits, although in reality disturbing a peaceful protest is pretty silly thing to do.
 
... and yet thats what is happening in London.

Nothing is "happening" in London. A few dozen "Khalistani" protestors paid by dodgy sources do not add up to something "happening".

It is politics indeed but it is ridiculous to suggest they will “never” align with Muslims, given their association in the past, which obviously you were quite ignorant of.

I was "obviously ignorant" of what?

And I said Sikhs will never align with Muslims against Hindus. If you think a few dozen protestors mean anything in a worldwide community of 25 million, you are much mistaken.

The simple fact is that most Sikhs and Hindus live together in India, and they are friends from childhood and they actually like each other. Get that straight and you will have a much more accurate view of the world.


It is fine and dandy to remain abreast of current political situation, but Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus share a history that goes far back. What some Indians fail to understand is that inspite of this history, good or bad, we are not one nation but that in no way should mean we cannot be friends.

Yes, we can and should be friends. However this idea that Sikhs and Muslims will get together to fight the Hindus is a delusion.

With that said and done, i am still waiting on your response as to what is going on in London, then. Is it a case of Muslims siding with Sikhs and Sikhs just laying down an epic phainty on Hindu nationalists ignoring Muslims there!

There is nothing "going on" in London. If you want to waste your time on the antics of a few dozen delusion and/or paid protestors, it is your life and your decision.
 
This is quite interesting and not something I was aware of. How do Sikhs in general view Muslims and Muslim rule of the Indian subcontinent?

I ones I have personally known have a far better opinion of Muslims than the Hindus and the reverse is also true but that might just be a very small minority.
If you want to believe that, be my guest. Sikhs may not be that motivated but Kashmiris certainly are.
At the end if the day, this is not about religion more about politics. India was doing pretty well till BJP came along. You can ignore it at your peril. All it takes is a few such instances to catch international attention.. iu can choose to believe they are paid or whatever.
 
This is quite interesting and not something I was aware of. How do Sikhs in general view Muslims and Muslim rule of the Indian subcontinent?

I ones I have personally known have a far better opinion of Muslims than the Hindus and the reverse is also true but that might just be a very small minority.
Sorry, quoted the wrong person
 
Laugh at your own peril. We Modi supporters are now high on protein diet and have started going to gym and walking with swag. It is not the half bare skinny ghandi, but the oak chested man-mountain Modi who is our icon, so count yourself lucky that you don't have to face us in real life and all you can do it troll us from the safety of your basement.

What a guy! :))) :)))

If more Modi supporters exhibit the same honesty, confidence and swag, i will vote for him lol.
 
If you want to believe that, be my guest. Sikhs may not be that motivated but Kashmiris certainly are.
At the end if the day, this is not about religion more about politics. India was doing pretty well till BJP came along. You can ignore it at your peril. All it takes is a few such instances to catch international attention.. iu can choose to believe they are paid or whatever.

Lol. sikhs ruled after Muslims and they only came in to existence to stymy Muslim rulers!.

Are people deluded; sikhism basic tenets are anti-Islamjc despite having pilfered many cultural Muslim elements.

They despise Muslims. Interestingly, 'khalistan', generally associated with Muslim nations; supposedly sikh court was Persian.
 
This is quite interesting and not something I was aware of. How do Sikhs in general view Muslims and Muslim rule of the Indian subcontinent?

I ones I have personally known have a far better opinion of Muslims than the Hindus and the reverse is also true but that might just be a very small minority.

Lol. sikhs ruled after Muslims and they only came in to existence to stymy Muslim rulers!.

Are people deluded; sikhism basic tenets are anti-Islamjc despite having pilfered many cultural Muslim elements.

They despise Muslims. Interestingly, 'khalistan', generally associated with Muslim nations; supposedly sikh court was Persian.

You, sir, are seriously misinformed. I suggest reading the links i posted earlier. Sikhism’s origins are influenced by Islam as well as hinduism. All the differences came later as dirty politics.
 
Nothing is "happening" in London. A few dozen "Khalistani" protestors paid by dodgy sources do not add up to something "happening".



I was "obviously ignorant" of what?

And I said Sikhs will never align with Muslims against Hindus. If you think a few dozen protestors mean anything in a worldwide community of 25 million, you are much mistaken.

The simple fact is that most Sikhs and Hindus live together in India, and they are friends from childhood and they actually like each other. Get that straight and you will have a much more accurate view of the world.




Yes, we can and should be friends. However this idea that Sikhs and Muslims will get together to fight the Hindus is a delusion.



There is nothing "going on" in London. If you want to waste your time on the antics of a few dozen delusion and/or paid protestors, it is your life and your decision.

Exactly. sikhs are very militant towards Muslims. Because Lahore is a cultural centre for them ans have mausoleum there, Pakistanis seem to think we're alike.

sikhism is nothing like Islam and if anything, it's an infidel religion as opposed to any other, what with it coming after Islam.
 
You, sir, are seriously misinformed. I suggest reading the links i posted earlier. Sikhism’s origins are influenced by Islam as well as hinduism. All the differences came later as dirty politics.

so they didn't become a combat people to reverse Mughal rule and actively fought in battles versus Muslim armies such as Mughal and Durrani ?. What on earth, they even have 'jhatka' meat as a direct opposite to Halal.

Theyve used Islamic concepts as well as Hindu yet actively dislike Islam. teg bahadur, gobind, all reverdd for either having been victims or victors versus Muslims
 
teg bahadur:

Known for
Spiritual contributions to Guru Granth Sahib
Martyrdom for protecting religious freedom of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits[1][2] and himself refusing to convert to Islam[3][4][1]

The irony is palpable..
 
Exactly. sikhs are very militant towards Muslims. Because Lahore is a cultural centre for them ans have mausoleum there, Pakistanis seem to think we're alike.

sikhism is nothing like Islam and if anything, it's an infidel religion as opposed to any other, what with it coming after Islam.


My interaction with practising sikhs is that they consider Muslims as historical enemies, but the militant ones seem to have a healthy respect for Muslims only because they are traditionally more strict and less willing to drop some aspects of their faith unlike the more flexible Hindus. Maybe this is what confuses some Pakistanis.
 
The only similarity that Muslims and Sikhs have is that they both follow Monotheistic faith. Other than that, there is nothing similar.

To me, the closest to Islam is Judaism and Catholicism.
 
The similarities one has 16 points whereas the disimilarities one has 12 points. It's just that the ones on the dissimilarities list are much more expanded on.

Counting the number of points is hardly useful. "Music" for example is listed as a similarity, but the two religions have very different opinions on music. "Charity", avoiding "Slander" etc. are listed as similarities, but all major religions promote these virtues.
 
This is a pointless discussion. There is no convincing some of the hindus here.

I cited direct sikh sources that noted the influence of Islam and the inspiration derived from sufism.

I cited the historical fact that a sufi Muslim mian mir was invoted by the Guru of the time to lay the foundation of the Golden temple.

Various third party sources who note Sikhism dervied its inspiration from Islam as well as hinduism.

A certain Sikh poster himself agreed with the point.


... and yet here we are and i can gaurantee you that we can fill a hundred some pages on this thread and it wont change their mind. Its honestly a waste of time and not worth debating if the other party is too rigid to accept certain facts.
 
This is a pointless discussion. There is no convincing some of the hindus here.

Sure it is easy to change the minds of the "hindus". The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

As soon as we see Sikhs and Muslims uniting against the "hindus", we will be convinced. And a dozen protestors shouting slogans isn't proof of anything.

You wrote "accept certain facts", but the facts that you offer (like the influence of Islam on Sikhism) are irrelevant to the issue.

Here is a thought for you, maybe you can't change minds because the "hindus" actually interact with Sikhs on a daily basis and know that you are wrong.
 
Last edited:
This is quite interesting and not something I was aware of. How do Sikhs in general view Muslims and Muslim rule of the Indian subcontinent?

I ones I have personally known have a far better opinion of Muslims than the Hindus and the reverse is also true but that might just be a very small minority.

Sure it is easy to change the minds of the "hindus". The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

As soon as we see Sikhs and Muslims uniting against the "hindus", we will be convinced. And a dozen protestors shouting slogans isn't proof of anything.

You wrote "accept certain facts", but the facts that you offer (like the influence of Islam on Sikhism) are irrelevant to the issue.

Here is a thought for you, maybe you can't change minds because the "hindus" actually interact with Sikhs on a daily basis and know that you are wrong.

Bhai, mein kab ye keh raha hoon. I feel like pulling my hair out.. i just made a comment or observation about the association of Sikhism and Islam in a historical context. Thats all i did. And yes it is NOT directly related to the topic of this thread. I am not here to jump down yoir theoat for being a hindu. You are mosreading the entire thing. I also acknowledge the ugly episodes between Muslims and Sikhs in the past.. which has no bearing quite honestly to the natire of the two faiths being at loggerheads with each other. Thats not the point. What you and your fellow Hindus are trying to do is proving me incorrect citing political differences between Muslims and Sikhs, and using them to somehow claim Sojhism and Islam have NOtHING in common. Dont you see the fallacy in that line of thinking?

That being said, and staying on topic, i think its entirely ridiculous to suggest these sikhs and kashmiris were paid actors.
Now i agree i dont have an evidence based argument in thst regard and neither do you so we can continue to disagree, i respect that. But what i find entirely illogical is your continual insistence that Sikhism and Islam have no historical connection and influence. I think in light of the sources i have shared on the subject to date, that should not even be a debate.
 
Let me throw my 2 cents. I have lived in canada for most of my life and from my personal experience sikhs and muslims from Pakistan get along more with each other than sikhs and Hindus. I think it has to do with the fact they both speak punjabi and also very similar culturally. Some of my very good friends are sikhs but they dont have a clue of what's going on in india tbh.
 
Bhai, mein kab ye keh raha hoon. I feel like pulling my hair out.. i just made a comment or observation about the association of Sikhism and Islam in a historical context. Thats all i did. And yes it is NOT directly related to the topic of this thread. I am not here to jump down yoir theoat for being a hindu. You are mosreading the entire thing. I also acknowledge the ugly episodes between Muslims and Sikhs in the past.. which has no bearing quite honestly to the natire of the two faiths being at loggerheads with each other. Thats not the point. What you and your fellow Hindus are trying to do is proving me incorrect citing political differences between Muslims and Sikhs, and using them to somehow claim Sojhism and Islam have NOtHING in common. Dont you see the fallacy in that line of thinking?

That being said, and staying on topic, i think its entirely ridiculous to suggest these sikhs and kashmiris were paid actors.
Now i agree i dont have an evidence based argument in thst regard and neither do you so we can continue to disagree, i respect that. But what i find entirely illogical <b>is your continual insistence that Sikhism and Islam have no historical connection and influence</b>. I think in light of the sources i have shared on the subject to date, that should not even be a debate.

I didn't say that Sikhism and Islam have no historical connection. Actually, I did not even say Islam has no influence on Sikhism. Given that Islam is a successful religion, it must have many attractive features (and many not so attractive features too). Sikhism was born in an area ruled by Islam, so it is to be expected that many ideas of Islam are also to be found in Sikhism.

What I contested is that the historical interaction between the two religions makes them likely to collaborate in the future, especially against Hindus. While Islam did influence Sikhism, there was also historically an enormous amount of bad blood between the two. Most Hindus regard Sikhism as a creation of a more warlike religion by the Hindus to combat the Muslims. Given that 10/10 Sikh Gurus had Hindu names (5 of them names of a member of the Trinity, Vishnu) that shouldn't be hard to believe.

Given the multiplicity of Hindu philosophies, all the ideas of Sikhism can be found in some strand of Hinduism, even the idea of a monotheistic God.

I am not saying the Hindus and Sikhs should fight Muslims. What I am saying is that Hindus and Sikhs are quite integrated, and the idea of a coalition of Sikhs and Muslims against Hindus is a pipe dream.

I repeat, it doesn't matter whether Islam influenced Sikhism or not. Islam itself was built on Judaism whose prophets it accepted, however that doesn't mean there is any love lost between the Jews and Muslims.
 
Last edited:
Ok good, I am glad we are on the same page.

In the same vein, the theological differences or similarities usually have no consequence whatsoever in political differences and animosities between peoples. Same goes for alliances. Do we agree?

Most political differences, wars, etc are waged behind the curtain of religious differences. So cant the same be said of alliances?

In 1947, India was divided based along religious lines. I wont say why because enough has been said already. But let’s go with the general concept..
It was along religious lines. Muslims wanted their own country. Hindus preferred to not divide it but it happened. So overall general animosity between Hindus and Muslims was even more magnified.

Now let’s jump to 1971. Same country with majority Hindus, actually assisted majority Muslim East Pakistan to separate from West Pakistan. Now was this due to some hitherto unknown love for Muslims that a Hindu majority India had or was it an ulterior motive based on politics?

I think we know the answer to that as well.

Now let’s jump to the present day, there is another group of people this time in India, that is not happy much like how East Pakistanis were at some point. Yes, I acknowledge there is no comparison between the magnitude or percentage of overall populations unhappy with the situation between Pakistani Bengalis and Indian sikhs, yet there are some holding these protests in the UK and not for the first time. So how is it completely unfathomable, that another group which feels wronged (the Kashmiris) would not side with them and vice versus, given the historical precedent of India supporting Bengali Muslims in 71?

Do you get my point? Political alliances and enmities usually have no roots in religion or faith or similarities or dissaimilarities thereof. Its all just means to an end.

So you can choose to dismiss this instance as an aberration or anomaly or a “paid advertisement” as you mentioned earlier. I accept most indian Hindus here wont accept anything otherwise, but I hope I tried to make sense of it for you.

Adversity, motivation, ambitious ness and desperation can make people funny things at times. :)
 
Last edited:
Ok good, I am glad we are on the same page.

In the same vein, the theological differences or similarities usually have no consequence whatsoever in political differences and animosities between peoples. Same goes for alliances. Do we agree?

Most political differences, wars, etc are waged behind the curtain of religious differences. So cant the same be said of alliances?

In 1947, India was divided based along religious lines. I wont say why because enough has been said already. But let’s go with the general concept..
It was along religious lines. Muslims wanted their own country. Hindus preferred to not divide it but it happened. So overall general animosity between Hindus and Muslims was even more magnified.

Now let’s jump to 1971. Same country with majority Hindus, actually assisted majority Muslim East Pakistan to separate from West Pakistan. Now was this due to some hitherto unknown love for Muslims that a Hindu majority India had or was it an ulterior motive based on politics?

I think we know the answer to that as well.

Now let’s jump to the present day, there is another group of people this time in India, that is not happy much like how East Pakistanis were at some point. Yes, I acknowledge there is no comparison between the magnitude or percentage of overall populations unhappy with the situation between Pakistani Bengalis and Indian sikhs, yet there are some holding these protests in the UK and not for the first time.

This is where you are completely wrong. There is no comparison between how Hindus and Sikhs interact, and the racist attitudes of West Pakistanis towards East Pakistanis.

Jinnah branded those who supported the use of Bengali as communists, traitors and enemies of the state (Hossain, Tania; Tollefson, James W. (2006)). Gen Niazi, who served as head of the Pakistani Forces in East Pakistan in 1971, referred to the region as a "low-lying land of low-lying people" etc. If you are not aware of the racist attitudes of the West Pakistanis, you need to learn a bit of history. These attitudes were at the root of the genocide:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide

Hindus and Sikhs on the other hand do not feel they are superior/inferior to each other.

So how is it completely unfathomable, that another group which feels wronged (the Kashmiris) would not side with them and vice versus, given the historical precedent of India supporting Bengali Muslims in 71?

Likely because Sikhs feel the same way about Kashmir as Hindus do.

Do you get my point? Political alliances and enmities usually have no roots in religion or faith or similarities or dissaimilarities thereof. Its all just means to an end.

So you can choose to dismiss this instance as an aberration or anomaly or a “paid advertisement” as you mentioned earlier. I accept most indian Hindus here wont accept anything otherwise, but I hope I tried to make sense of it for you.

Adversity, motivation, ambitious ness and desperation can make people funny things at times. :)

Whatever adversities Sikhs face in India, they do not blame the Hindus. Likewise Hindus do not blame Sikhs. Just take this from someone who has actually lived among them.
 
Last edited:
This is where you are completely wrong. There is no comparison between how Hindus and Sikhs interact, and the racist attitudes of West Pakistanis towards East Pakistanis.

Jinnah branded those who supported the use of Bengali as communists, traitors and enemies of the state (Hossain, Tania; Tollefson, James W. (2006)). Gen Niazi, who served as head of the Pakistani Forces in East Pakistan in 1971, referred to the region as a "low-lying land of low-lying people" etc. If you are not aware of the racist attitudes of the West Pakistanis, you need to learn a bit of history. These attitudes were at the root of the genocide:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide

Hindus and Sikhs on the other hand do not feel they are superior/inferior to each other.



Likely because Sikhs feel the same way about Kashmir as Hindus do.



Whatever adversities Sikhs face in India, they do not blame the Hindus. Likewise Hindus do not blame Sikhs. Just take this from someone who has actually lived among them.

You still don’t get the point. I was not drawing parallels.. I put that disclaimer in there when I talked about the magnitude and percentage of populations sentiment (majority or minority)
My recap was to explain or justify the reasons behind different people coming together against perceived (once again, we will probably become grandfathers here trying to convince each other of whether the sentiments of bengalis, Sikhs, kashmiris is legitimate or not, hence the word “perceived”) injustice from a common source.

Now you can drive yourself hoarse talking about how all pro Khalistan Sikhs are ISI agents. Thats not the point. The point is something like what we saw in this video is not utterly inconceivable!

With that, I think i have said enough and spent enough time on the subject. You are very well entitled to your opinion as am
I.
 
Last edited:
This thread is very gratifying on two counts:

1. Got to see some nationalists, most likely Modi fans, get roughed up.

2. Have been enlightened on how Sufism influenced Sikhism, but more importantly, how Sufism is Islam. Not sure have heard that before.
 
Back
Top