What's new

Mohammad Amir at 26 years of age - Has he underachieved?

MenInG

MenInG

PakPassion Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Runs
217,977
Not 18 any more and no longer a young talent. Should he have done better with his career? Or is he on the right path?
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnThisDay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnThisDay</a> 1992. Mohammad Amir was born in Gujjar Khan. Amir has played 107 matches for Pakistan and has been a member of Pakistan's World T20 winning squad in 2009 & the Champions Trophy winning squad last year <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/nOa17yMwDV">pic.twitter.com/nOa17yMwDV</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/984692281541263360?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 13, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Losing five years of your professional career is a huge set-back. Most do not have the temperament to come back, but Amir has had the mental resolve to be among the best just 2 years into his restarted international career.

Needs to improve in Tests, but I don't think he's really that interested in playing the longest format of the game.
 
Would have been probably having around 300 Test wickets in his kitty by now if not for his idiocy. There's a difference between coming back from an injury and coming back from a ban for something as heinous as spot fixing. A player coming back from injury even after 2-3 years doesn't have to face a certain toxic thing called humiliation. And that is the reason I believe Amir hasn't been the same bowler since his comeback. He hasn't lost his skills, he has lost his heart, spirit, hunger and motivation. He wouldn't have been thinking on cutting back on the purest form of the game i.e Tests if he had his head completely in the game.

Easy for Pak fans to take offence at my post. But do you honestly from your heart believe anything I said is wrong?
 
Last edited:
Used to be a zero Test bowler outside English conditions at 18, and came back failing even in England. Never got this hype about Amir.
 
BlackShadow said:
Used to be a zero Test bowler outside English conditions at 18, and came back failing even in England. Never got this hype about Amir.
Click to expand...
I like how the narrative is sticking to Tests only now. Before the CT final, it was in all formats. Amir is only 26, plenty of time for him to deliver a smackdown to India in Tests too.
 
Usman Chadda said:
I like how the narrative is sticking to Tests only now. Before the CT final, it was in all formats. Amir is only 26, plenty of time for him to deliver a smackdown to India in Tests too.
Click to expand...

The hype came after 2010 Test series against England and it ended with his last Test tour to England. Hence my focus on the format.

Btw, his ODI career too is mediocre at best, so I don't understand how skipping that helped my narrative.
 
26 is young by all accounts. Many bowlers start their careers at this stage, battle through injuries but look to play all formats. So the talk of underachievement is premature. On the other hand, Amir himself has spoken about the need to manage his workload so clearly there's some concern on account of fitness etc. It is also possible that his age is understated and he's closer to 28-29. In which case, he may have no more than 4 years of international cricket left.
 
BlackShadow said:
The hype came after 2010 Test series against England and it ended with his last Test tour to England. Hence my focus on the format.

Btw, his ODI career too is mediocre at best, so I don't understand how skipping that helped my narrative.
Click to expand...
Pretty rich coming from someone who's national team is lead by an embarrassment like Bhuvneshwar Kumar. We Pakistanis know Amir's worth. Don't need a bitter Indian with a chip on his shoulder the size of Kumar's average informing us on Pakistani players.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Pretty rich coming from someone who's national team is lead by an embarrassment like Bhuvneshwar Kumar. We Pakistanis know Amir's worth. Don't need a bitter Indian with a chip on his shoulder the size of Kumar's average informing us on Pakistani players.
Click to expand...

Clearly, you can't deny the points I raised regarding Amir. As for your off-topic babble , Pakistan today would kill for a bowler with Kumar's average, but that's a different debate, so I will leave it there.
 
Considering how good he was before fixing, he has under achieved. At 18 years old, it is extremely abnormal to be that good.
 
BlackShadow said:
Clearly, you can't deny the points I raised regarding Amir. As for your off-topic babble , Pakistan today would kill for a bowler with Kumar's average, but that's a different debate, so I will leave it there.
Click to expand...
Calling an international level bowler a zero Test bowler is not raising points, but rather babbling which you are ironically accusing me of. Learn to raise better points to deserve a discussion.
 
He has definitely underperformed though a large part of that is down to the ban. He can turn it on some days, and look a million bucks, but in general the hype is much more than the substance.

However, keep in mind that the 18-year old Amir was nothing short of a phenomenon. What he was doing at that age wasn't dissimilar to what Kohli did when he was really young. If all had gone to plan, Amir would have been to fast bowling today, what Kohli is to batting. Sadly, he's not even the best pacer on the team.
 
Happy birthday. Still enough time in his career to achieve more. Hopefully he starts bowling an attacking length and is more consistent. Can always trust him to turn up in the big games though.
 
I hope some people understand how to write on forums instead of attacking people's. Some people have no shame. Bhuvi is no embarrassment like Amir, who spot fixed a match [MENTION=1650]Usman Chadda[/MENTION] . On topic, Amir has enough time to improve his average and become what he was in 2010.
 
Amir IMO is goood but not good enough. He was the best 17 year old fast bowler ever ( Waqar might disagree) but then after the ban, he was expected to repeat the same magic but hasn't. 5 years out of cricket takes some sting from your game. Even now when he comes in to bowl it looks like something could happen and he could take a wicket anytime but there is something amiss. The pace has also dropped a wee but and so has the swing and bite.
 
BlackShadow said:
Clearly, you can't deny the points I raised regarding Amir. As for your off-topic babble , Pakistan today would kill for a bowler with Kumar's average, but that's a different debate, so I will leave it there.
Click to expand...

Average ka achaar banain kya? Forgetting how he domilished youz @ CT final!!! Where was Bhuvi express then?? On topic now?
 
Mirpur express said:
Average ka achaar banain kya? Forgetting how he domilished youz @ CT final!!! Where was Bhuvi express then?? On topic now?
Click to expand...

Ask your countryman to stay on topic. If CT final is what defines Amir, then good luck celebrating his legendary Test and ODI career.
 
Amir should be put under pressure by the management as only then does he pull out his A-game. I say he should be told that this is the last series for him to bring back the old Amir otherwise its back to the domestic circuit for you
 
Usman Chadda said:
Pretty rich coming from someone who's national team is lead by an embarrassment like Bhuvneshwar Kumar. We Pakistanis know Amir's worth. Don't need a bitter Indian with a chip on his shoulder the size of Kumar's average informing us on Pakistani players.
Click to expand...

He's right, don't know why you're getting so defensive.
 
He is good and will be Pakistan's pace attack leader for another few years. But he is no Akram. Amir will not even be a Shoaib Akhtar type successful bowler. So forget Wasim or Waqar.

All that being said, Amir is still a very good bowler who can have brilliant games followed by a period of average spells. But he is not what his fans believe him to be.
 
troodon said:
He is good and will be Pakistan's pace attack leader for another few years. But he is no Akram. Amir will not even be a Shoaib Akhtar type successful bowler. So forget Wasim or Waqar.

All that being said, Amir is still a very good bowler who can have brilliant games followed by a period of average spells. But he is not what his fans believe him to be.
Click to expand...

He can be better. Just needs to pitch it up and look to swing it back into the right hander.

He would walk into most top teams in the world... England, India, SA, NZ. Maybe not Australia.
 
babajee said:
He can be better. Just needs to pitch it up and look to swing it back into the right hander.

He would walk into most top teams in the world... England, India, SA, NZ. Maybe not Australia.
Click to expand...

He does not seem to have the same motivation like Wasim or Waqar or the super attacking instincts of Shoaib Akhtar. Skill wise, Amir is right up there with those guys. But he either lacks the fitness/strength or motivation. Seems to go through motions for extended periods especially in Test Cricket where he looks like an average bowler. But when he is on song, he is a treat to watch.
 
He's underachieved in tests because since returning from his ban he's lost that pace and aggression. He was bowling 150 in Australia back in 09 and nowadays he's bowling spells in the low 130s as we saw in the SL series last year. As a swing bowler who has lost pace it is no surprise that he is struggling to bowl with the kookaburra. Consequently he is now cutting down on his commitment to tests. Pakistan shouldn't waste him in UAE if he isn't enjoying the challenges of the longer form of the game.

So in the years to come I think at best he will be a limited overs legend. This doesn't mean he doesn't have much to offer because his record as a big match player particularly in ICC events speaks for itself and will have a huge role to play in next year's world cup campaign.

To whoever it was who claimed his hype was generated from that one England series in 2010 doesn't know what he is talking about and sounds a bit like Rohit Sharma after the Asia cup match 2 years ago when he referred to him as "just a normal bowler". If I was an Indian fan I wouldn't be throwing shots at him as it will bite you in the a$$ - evident from last year's CT final when he was owned by Amir to initiate the humiliation.
 
BlackShadow said:
Ask your countryman to stay on topic. If CT final is what defines Amir, then good luck celebrating his legendary Test and ODI career.
Click to expand...

What defies him is his performance when it really matters... I don’t care about his average or rankings as long as he is in beast mode in crucial games . I close my case
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Usman Chadda said:
Pretty rich coming from someone who's national team is lead by an embarrassment like Bhuvneshwar Kumar. We Pakistanis know Amir's worth. Don't need a bitter Indian with a chip on his shoulder the size of Kumar's average informing us on Pakistani players.
Click to expand...

Bhuvneshwar is a better test bowler than your golden boy. Just so you know.
 
BlackShadow said:
Now if you were talking ODIs, then you sound equally dumb. The ones who lead Indian ODI attack are Bumrah and Shami. One is world's # 1 ranked fast bowler and the other one averages 25. Amir isn't fit to tie either's shoelace, in ANY format.
Click to expand...

First let Shami play ODIs for India. How can he lead the ODI attack when he isn’t a regular?
 
Rahul1 said:
Bhuvneshwar is a better test bowler than your golden boy. Just so you know.
Click to expand...

Golden boy isn’t as lucky as Bhuvneshwar in that he gets picked on a horse for course basis. Any bowler would look amazing if they are only played when the conditions suit them.
 
I was watching some highlights of the 2009 test tour of Australia. Amir was bowling 148kph bouncers Tom Ponting in a test match!! Whereas nowadays he bowls at low 130s in tests and maximum 145kph in t20s. I was of the view, that since he played no cricket for five years. His body would have less wear and tear. But he seems to have lost considerable pace.
 
babajee said:
Golden boy isn’t as lucky as Bhuvneshwar in that he gets picked on a horse for course basis. Any bowler would look amazing if they are only played when the conditions suit them.
Click to expand...

What did your golden boy do in England ?
 
WengerOut said:
Basically he was rubbish. So it means you still need to bowl well.
Click to expand...

He had quite a few catches dropped off his bowling as well. That is very demoralizing for a bowler.

Wickets pump up a bowler and generally bring more wickets.
 
[MENTION=143344]babajee[/MENTION] Actually speaking his England record overall is similar to BK. So I was wrong there. But still he deteriorated badly in tests.
 
When Amir started all those years ago, he had a few father figures and seniors to fall back on for advice. He was the new exciting blue eyed boy and even if he made mistakes in the game, it was OK. He had the POTENTIAL.

When he returned, every error is seen through a microscope. There are unrealistic expectations in a few instances and all of a sudden he is a spearhead.

What he missed out was the transition phase from being a great prospect to the spearhead of a team. He still has the skills but the mental side of things need real game time for maturity under proper guidance. He can still dazzle once in a while when he is attacking which indicates he has the skills.
 
babajee said:
He can be better. Just needs to pitch it up and look to swing it back into the right hander.

He would walk into most top teams in the world... England, India, SA, NZ. Maybe not Australia.
Click to expand...
May be in T20 but definitely not in ODI and Tests.Lost his stamina and speed to bowl in longer forms.
 
Amir isn't good as the Pakistanis make him out to be.



Amir isn't as bad as the Indians make him out to be.





He is a good threatening bowler who can ripe through even the best batting orders on his day, but often times he seems to be bowling defensively or without his typical aggression. When he turns it on I doubt there are better bowlers than him in the game today.
 
Dingolfy said:
May be in T20 but definitely not in ODI and Tests.Lost his stamina and speed to bowl in longer forms.
Click to expand...

For amount he is bashed by PPers he has been decent in ODI. Still has an average of 29 with economy of 4.87. World class in T20I with an average of 19.80 and economy of 6.69.
 
As long as he keeps making Indian batsmen look clueless he is good in my book. I think he is not Akhtar's, Waqar or Wasim's level but then again international cricket has changed so much so I don't think anyone can reach that level.
 
aloo paratha said:
He's right, don't know why you're getting so defensive.
Click to expand...
Show me a Pakistani who is under delusions about Amir's bowling performances so far, specially in Test cricket. But I won't stand for anyone from another country calling a Pakistani bowler a zero Test bowler.

I will always have respect for someone who won my country a major tournament final, against his arch-rivals no less.
 
Yes, we expected more from Amir, but he couldn't reach that level since his comeback. What's new?

I thought people had moved on from this.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Show me a Pakistani who is under delusions about Amir's bowling performances so far, specially in Test cricket. But I won't stand for anyone from another country calling a Pakistani bowler a zero Test bowler.

I will always have respect for someone who won my country a major tournament final, against his arch-rivals no less.
Click to expand...

Well other than a 6fer vs WI what has Amir done since his comeback? Pretty much played like a zero test bowler in my eyes.

You can respect him but have to accept that he's pretty average most of the time with some sparks of brilliance.
 
is there any chance he is older than 26? this is not an accusation but a genuine question. If he is 26 then it is too early for him to complain about his work load. May be they need to manage him, may be they need to provide him the right support bowlers. But under no circumstances a 26 year old, who is a genuine quick and can swing both ways, should be looking to reduce his workload. This is the age when you take up everything thrown at you.. bowl your heart out , day in day out, for next five years.. If you do that until, say 32, then you have earned your right to reduce your workload drastically.
 
Sadly, hasn't really shown what all the hype was about since his comeback, but inarguably Pakistan's most important match since then, the CT Final he provided that worldy performance we had all been waiting for.
 
Kroll said:
Sadly, hasn't really shown what all the hype was about since his comeback, but inarguably Pakistan's most important match since then, the CT Final he provided that worldy performance we had all been waiting for.
Click to expand...

He is being over rated for that performance to be honest. Pakistan had almost 360 runs on the board, it was a CT final and the pressure of chasing in a final gets to the most superior batting side i.e. India. He cannot live off that performance by costing Pakistan all the other games that he plays in.
 
babajee said:
For amount he is bashed by PPers he has been decent in ODI. Still has an average of 29 with economy of 4.87. World class in T20I with an average of 19.80 and economy of 6.69.
Click to expand...

His economy I believe is among or the best post-2015 WC yet. In ODIs despite not always taking wickets, he's still very much a valuable asset.
 
Sachin136 said:
Not really. An economy of 5.07 and an average of 32.90 just isn't good enough to be considered a valuable asset. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...5;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling
Click to expand...

Look I was obviously referring to all the pacers when I was discussing his economy, since you can't compare the economy of a spinner with a pacer and anyway this list couldn't be more deceiving because it includes a lot of minnow sides as well.

Looking at it only 3 recognised pacers (non-minnows) are above Amir IRO economy; Bumrah, Mathews and Hazelwood.

I would take Amir over Mathews any day of the week, remember generic stats at face value is the level of a stats bully not a knowledgeable critic but stats with context gives you the real picture . Bumrah and Hazlewood have done well but out of all these names I will pick the Pakistani because he knows how to deliver in big matches. His record in ICC events speaks for itself.
 
Last edited:
Great bowler when he started but has got softer and humbler(even on the field) due to coming out of ban and humiliation I guess. He needs to be more aggressive and put some heart into the game and pitch it up even if it means he will get hit on few bowls.
 
Josh said:
Great bowler when he started but has got softer and humbler(even on the field) due to coming out of ban and humiliation I guess. He needs to be more aggressive and put some heart into the game and pitch it up even if it means he will get hit on few bowls.
Click to expand...

Well observed - agree with all of this. He just isn't the same bowler without the aggression but when the stakes are big as we saw in last year's final we saw Amir of old; pace, vigour, aggression and intensity. Had all the ingredients that day not to forget his conventional swing and cross seam delivery to Dhawan.
 
backfootpunch said:
Look I was obviously referring to all the pacers when I was discussing his economy, since you can't compare the economy of a spinner with a pacer and anyway this list couldn't be more deceiving because it includes a lot of minnow sides as well.

Looking at it only 3 recognised pacers (non-minnows) are above Amir IRO economy; Bumrah, Mathews and Hazelwood.

I would take Amir over Mathews any day of the week, remember generic stats at face value is the level of a stats bully not a knowledgeable critic but stats with context gives you the real picture . Bumrah and Hazlewood have done well but out of all these names I will pick the Pakistani because he knows how to deliver in big matches. His record in ICC events speaks for itself.
Click to expand...

Here I made it easier. Only pacers, minimum of 20 innings and 20 wickets among top test playing nations. He comes in 4th if we sort on economy. But few other like Hasan Ali, Woakes, Cummins, Strarc,Boult, etc are all having way better average and strike rate while conceding a bit more run (with in 0.3 runs). He is a good bowler. as someone mentioned above he is not as bad as some of his detractors make him out to be and not as good as some of fans make him out to be.

What is surprising is some of the players like Lakmal, Holder, Gunaratne, etc who are readily considered average have performed at par with him.

Amir.JPG
 
Gubol123 said:
Here I made it easier. Only pacers, minimum of 20 innings and 20 wickets among top test playing nations. He comes in 4th if we sort on economy. But few other like Hasan Ali, Woakes, Cummins, Strarc,Boult, etc are all having way better average and strike rate while conceding a bit more run (with in 0.3 runs). He is a good bowler. as someone mentioned above he is not as bad as some of his detractors make him out to be and not as good as some of fans make him out to be.

What is surprising is some of the players like Lakmal, Holder, Gunaratne, etc who are readily considered average have performed at par with him.

View attachment 80778
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this table of stats (with the relevant criteria). Look as I have said he is not been a prolific wicket taker which is why his average suffers but in this era where scores are on average are 300+, you need an economical bowler. For me he belongs to the second tier of best pace bowlers in ODIs but on his day he is as good as anyone.

Hasan Ali, Starc, Boult, Cummins and etc obviously belong to the top tier of LOI bowlers which is why Amir didn't make my current ODI XI on that thread. 4th best economy over the last few years is still great going and complements the more attacking Hasan Ali beautifully.
 
Last edited:
Yes. "By how much" is the question. "By a lot" is the answer. Does not however mean that much of the flak he receives is justified.
 
He made his return to T20 cricket vs NZ in NZ in Jan 2016. Did okay, but not great. Exactly two years later, vs NZ in NZ in Jan 2018, he won man of the series.

He made his return to Test cricket vs Eng in Eng in Jun 2016. Did okay, but not great. Exactly two years later, vs Eng in Eng in Jun 2018, he will win man of the series.
 
I definitely believe he has underachieved for a bowler of his calibre but on his day, he's a world class bowler who can get the better of any batsman. That should never be overlooked.
 
The way threads are being derailed is getting extremely annoying, and tiresome to deal with.

STAY ON TOPIC.
 
Amir has done average. Have to remember that Pak have been handicapped by not playing at home. Would have performed much better playing in home conditions. Still believe that his second spell in one dayers needs to improve. Not a fast bowler though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BouncerGuy
[VIDEO] Mohammad Amir reacts after being called a fixer by the crowd
Replies
56
Views
2K
kron
K
The Bald Eagle
[EXCLUSIVE] "I have never seen kids win anything": Ravi Bopara
Replies
7
Views
721
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
The Bald Eagle
  • Poll Poll
Quetta Gladiators (190/8) secure a thrilling 2-wicket victory against Multan Sultans (185/7) in match 28 of PSL X
2
Replies
98
Views
3K
Cricket Warrior
Cricket Warrior
P
What was the actual background of Mohammad Yousuf?
2
Replies
116
Views
3K
topspin
topspin
TalentSpotterPk
Who is the most intelligent limited overs fast bowler in Pakistan?
Replies
14
Views
661
TalentSpotterPk
TalentSpotterPk
Back
Top