MPs have backed PM Boris Johnson's plan for the UK to leave the EU on 31 January[Post #162]

[Tired]

What do you guys think who live in England ?

 

[Robert]

Yes, I think it will. Project Fear has annoyed so many people that they will vote Leave as an act of rebellion.

Then the Dutch and Danes are likely to leave too, and the whole rotten edifice could come down.

 

[in_cutter]

No it won't. We will remain.

 

[PetroDollars]

With Jobs difficult to get and the housing market gone mental, it most defiantly will.

 

[Spookiewookie]

What do you guys think who live in England ?

Inshallah it will.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't think so. The same influential media that was previously blaming the EU for all the problems that EU membership brings (mainly immigration related) are now running scare campaigns (international business related) against leaving and I think they'll succeed.

 

[BeautifulGame]

I don't think so. The same influential media that was previously blaming the EU for all the problems that EU membership brings (mainly immigration related) are now running scare campaigns (international business related) against leaving and I think they'll succeed.

Not sure about .All of right wing media Sun Express Mail and Telegraph (to an extent ) are still strongly supporting the Brexit campaign.Sun has even officially endorsed Brexit .

 

[godzilla]

I voted for brexit because I think it's the right thing to do, even though it will be more damaging for me personally.

But I would imagine when it comes to the voting day, stay will win. I think most people will choke when the time comes to be brave!

 

[Suleiman]

I think we should stay.

God save the queen.

 

[Salman]

I've voting out but don't believe the media hype, we will be staying in.

Too much at stake for the people in power for such a change, however someone is about to make a killing on the currency market next week.

 

[MenInG]

The danger is that voter apathy will lead to an otherwise unlikely Brexit - very dangerous for UK

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Not sure about .All of right wing media Sun Express Mail and Telegraph (to an extent ) are still strongly supporting the Brexit campaign.Sun has even officially endorsed Brexit .

I don't read those rags on a regular basis, I was basing my opinion on The Times which is a sister paper of The Sun. In any case, I expect the horrific murder of Jo Cox which was stoked by media scaremongering over immigration to have a negative effect on the Brexit campaign.

 

[proud_pakistani]

It will not happen. These kinds of decisions have massive implications. To come to such a decision needs a lot of time and analytical thinking. Some analysts feel the pound could collapse if they leave the EU. I doubt this is a risk Britain will take.

 

[endymion248]

Yes, I think it will. Project Fear has annoyed so many people that they will vote Leave as an act of rebellion.

Then the Dutch and Danes are likely to leave too, and the whole rotten edifice could come down.

There is one rotten union that will come down if Brexit happens and it's not the EU

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Yes, I think it will. Project Fear has annoyed so many people that they will vote Leave as an act of rebellion.

Then the Dutch and Danes are likely to leave too, and the whole rotten edifice could come down.

Nah. I doubt the Dutch will leave as it would directly effect their export.


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[Spookiewookie]

Nah. I doubt the Dutch will leave as it would directly effect their export.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

on the contrary they are pushing for their own referendum on leaving the EU, along with France - once Britain decides to leave you will see the rest follow like sheep.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

on the contrary they are pushing for their own referendum on leaving the EU, along with France - once Britain decides to leave you will see the rest follow like sheep.

Not really. The majority of the politicians are pro-EU. Only one political party is anti-EU but they'll need some votes to get in power. Wilders' party (anti-EU) also happens to be anti-Islam so not sure if they ever will get the majority of the votes.

Let's see what happens in the upcoming months. The elections are next year and the anti-Islam party might have a sniff.

 

[Bewal Express]

Remain by .5%

 

[Spookiewookie]

Remain by .5%

Only if the count is rigged




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[Robert]

There is one rotten union that will come down if Brexit happens and it's not the EU

The Scots won't get another referendum in two decades, by which time the EU will look very different, I predict. If it were merely a Common Market I'd be all for it.

 

[endymion248]

The Scots won't get another referendum in two decades, by which time the EU will look very different, I predict. If it were merely a Common Market I'd be all for it.

You can't have a common market without free movement which is the reason Brits are being sold Brexit in the first place.

Two decades or five, the people of the british isles will be free from the English one day.

 

[The_KING]

I hope it does happen

 

[Spookiewookie]

The Scots won't get another referendum in two decades, by which time the EU will look very different, I predict. If it were merely a Common Market I'd be all for it.

The Common market needed today is not Europe - it's with all countries Globally - the EU model is outdated by 30 years.

 

[s28]

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/442957/niall-ferguson-brexit-stance-was-wrong-he-admits

There you go, the lies and deceit of the self-serving elite laid bare.

That is why Corbyn, Sanders et al do so well. People waking up to fact you can not trust the 'elite'

 

[Robert]

That is why Corbyn, Sanders et al do so well. People waking up to fact you can not trust the 'elite'

Sanders lost and Corbyn is not convincing the electorate. The winners are Trump and Farage. They are the ones winning elections and bringing out about change. The progressive left is losing to the alt-right.

 

[Kroll]

For anyone wanting to find the big Brexit petition and sign it, you can find it here:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

I've already done mine

 

[Abdullah]

For anyone wanting to find the big Brexit petition and sign it, you can find it here:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

I've already done mine

Yes come on guys let's get this to more than the leave votes!! 15mill if I remember correctly

 

[Rana]

Brexit: MPs debate options ahead of indicative votes

MPs are debating eight proposals on the future of Brexit ahead of votes later on a way forward.

It comes after MPs took control of the House from the government as they attempt to find a majority for the next steps in the Brexit process.

Measures being debated include leaving without a deal, forming a customs union and a confirmatory referendum.

Theresa May is still trying to drum up support for her deal, despite it being voted down by a large margin twice.

But after the Speaker of the House, John Bercow, announced which eight proposals he had chosen for votes, he reiterated his earlier warnings that the PM's deal could not come back for a vote if it had not significantly changed.

The prime minister is preparing to meet her backbenchers later at the Conservative 1922 committee to push for further support for her withdrawal agreement.

Earlier, the government ordered their MPs to vote against a business motion securing the indicative votes for this evening, but lost by 331 to 287.

Conservative backbencher Sir Oliver Letwin, whose cross-party proposal ushered in today's debate, said the only way leaving the EU with no-deal can be prevented is by crystallising an alternative majority and trying to carry it forward.

He said that if MPs supported the prime minister's deal in another meaningful vote this would be "the easy route".

But he added that he "profoundly hopes" that if on Monday there is a majority view in favour of a particular position, that the government will say that it will carry that forward.

What options are MPs voting on?
Groups have been putting forward different options for the UK's future relationship with the EU, with several based on the assumption Mrs May's withdrawal agreement with the EU will be approved - albeit with changes to the controversial Northern Ireland backstop.

The Speaker of the House, John Bercow, has chosen eight to be voted on by MPs later this evening.

They are:

No-deal Brexit - Leave the EU on 12 April without a deal - Tory MP John Baron
Common Market 2.0 - the UK joins the European Economic Area and negotiates a temporary customs union until alternative arrangements can be found - Tory MP Nick Boles
EFTA/EEA - Similar to Common Market 2.0 but rejects any kind of customs union with the EU and says the Irish backstop must be replaced with alternative arrangements - Tory MP George Eustice
Customs union - Calls for the UK to negotiate a permanent customs union with the EU after Brexit - Tory MP Ken Clarke
Labour's alternative plan - A customs union with the EU and "close alignment" with the single market - Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn
Revoke Article 50 - Cancel Brexit if the UK gets within days of leaving without a deal. MPs would be asked to vote on a no-deal exit and if they rejected that, Article 50 would be revoked - SNP MP Joanna Cherry
Confirmatory public vote - Parliament cannot ratify or implement any agreement on the UK's withdrawal and future relationship "unless and until they have been approved by the people of the UK in a confirmatory public ballot" - Labour MP Margaret Beckett
Malthouse Plan B - The UK makes its budgetary contributions to the EU to the end of 2020 and agrees with the EU a period of two years in which UK goods have full access to the EU - Tory MP Marcus Fysh
How will the process work?
There will be just under four hours of debate on the different options.

After that, MPs will be given a piece of paper listing the options, and will have to mark each one with a "yes" or "no".

MPs will use both lobbies for completing the indicative vote ballots.

Voting by paper ballot will take place at about 19:00 GMT, with the results announced by Mr Bercow later that evening.

But the process is likely to continue on Monday as MPs seek to whittle down options which could command majority support in Parliament.

The government has until 12 April to propose a different way forward to the EU if it cannot get the current agreement through Parliament.

How are MPs likely to vote?
Conservative MPs will be given a free vote, meaning they will be able to support or reject any proposal without pressure from party whips. Cabinet ministers will be abstaining.

The decision followed warnings that more than a dozen ministers might quit if they were told they had to follow party orders.

Labour MPs are being whipped to support the party's own proposal as well as a number of others, including one for a referendum to endorse any deal.

There was some confusion over the confirmatory public vote option. Labour MP Peter Kyle helped draw up the motion and told Today that he expected his leader Jeremy Corbyn to order his MPs to back it.

But his colleague Barry Gardiner cast doubt on the support from Labour's frontbench, telling the programme the amendment makes it "look like a public vote is an attempt to Remain", adding: "It is not where our policy has been."

MPs later confirmed to the BBC they had been ordered to support the proposal.

The DUP's leader in Westminster, Nigel Dodds, co-signed two proposals - one asking for the result of the EU referendum in 2016 to be respected and another backing the Malthouse Compromise.

What is the PM's next move?

Mrs May is still trying try to win MPs round to her deal, which has been heavily rejected twice.

As part of this effort, she is expected to address the Conservative backbench 1922 Committee on Wednesday evening.

Leader of the House Andrea Leadsom said there was a "real possibility" the PM's deal could come back for a vote on Thursday or Friday, telling BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "If we could simply get the withdrawal agreement bill under way…once we have done that, once we have left the EU, we can then look at what our future relationship will look like."

And during Prime Minister's Questions - after being told by her fellow Tory MP Andrew Bridgen that his constituents could not trust her to deliver Brexit - Mrs May said she could guarantee delivering on Brexit if "this week" MPs like him supported her deal.

Friday is the day written into law for the UK to leave the EU, but later MPs will vote on a statutory instrument to confirm a delay - with the earliest Brexit is likely to happen now being 12 April.


The BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg said some leading Brexiteers were "tiptoeing their way" towards supporting her plan.

But many want to confirm the support of the Democratic Unionist Party - the 10 Northern Irish MPs that give Mrs May a majority in the Commons - before they agree.

The party has so urged Tory MPs to "stand firm" in their opposition unless there were "significant changes" - namely to the insurance policy to prevent a hard border returning to the island of Ireland, known as the backstop.

Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has said of the PM's deal: "Half a loaf is better than no bread."

He told Today programme he did not "begin to pretend this is a good deal or a good choice", but he would support the PM's plan if it had the backing of the DUP.

Fellow ERG member, Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski, tweeted that he had appealed to members of the DUP to abstain from voting on Mrs May's deal if they cannot back it, saying it could be enough to get the plan "across the finishing line".

Mrs Leadsom said the government was still in talks to persuade the DUP to back it, along with other MPs on their own benches.

But ex-Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson told the BBC there was "no point" supporting Mrs May's deal "without any sign the UK is going to change its approach in phase two" of the negotiations. Otherwise he said he feared the country would be indefinitely tied to the EU's rules.

Laura Kuenssberg said the not-so-subtle subtext of Mr Johnson's remarks was "if the PM promises to go soon, then she might get my vote".

Meanwhile, the President of the European Council Donald Tusk told MEPs they "cannot betray the six million people who signed the petition to revoke Article 50, the one million people who marched for a people's vote, or the increasing majority of people who want to remain in the EU".

He said the people "may feel that they are not sufficiently represented by the UK Parliament, but they must feel that they are represented by you... because they are Europeans".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47715933

 

[PakLFC]

It should be cancelled. The whole thing is a mess.

 

[msaaim89]

Yes come on guys let's get this to more than the leave votes!! 15mill if I remember correctly

That wouldn't really accomplish anything as anyone can sign up.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

So Brexit: will it happen?

(A Brexit in name only where we stay in the customs union and common market doesn’t count).

 

[Robert]

So Brexit: will it happen?

(A Brexit in name only where we stay in the customs union and common market doesn’t count).

Have to see what happens under the new leader. But I think nothing will be sorted within the Tory party. Riven too deep.

 

[Technics 1210]

Yes it will happen. There is too much at stake. (Trust in the Government and Democracy).

The results of the EU elections will act as an impetuous for the incoming PM. (Though you'd have thought 17.4 Million votes would have the same effect).

 

[Robert]

The new PM will have to tear up May’s red lines and start again. If the EU27 will agree to renegotiate. They may tell us they have lost patience and we must crash out.

Possibly a free trade deal is an option. Juncker offered this. It would shrink our economy and lead to major job losses and years more austerity, but wouldn’t be as bad as Hard Brexit.

But it won’t fix the Irish border question.

The referendum gave people the option to leave the EU but it didn’t offer a destination, and that’s why Parliament cannot decide where to go next.

 

[Robert]

I reckon this will happen.

1. Tories are hammered in Euro election - respond by choosing a No Dealer as PM to counter Farage threat.

2. They fail to get No Deal through Parliament.

3. Stalemate. Tories go back to the country in a referendum of No Deal vs. Remain.

4. Remain wins.

5. Government’s position untenable. General Election.

6. Another hung Parliament. Lib Dems are kingmakers with 25 seats respectively.

 

[James]

We’ve ended up in the scenario where nobody can agree so naturally only the two extremes are the possibilities: No Deal Exit, or Revoke Article 50. Only time will tell as to which one of these transpires.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Does ‘No Deal’ actually have to get through Parliament? I thought it was the default position should an agreement not pass in Parliament?

Could a no deal PM not just run down the clock? Sure there was a vote in Parliament where no deal was apparently taken off the table however I’m sure that this was a non binding vote.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../24/theresa-may-replacement-no-deal-brexit-pm

I reckon this will happen.

1. Tories are hammered in Euro election - respond by choosing a No Dealer as PM to counter Farage threat.

2. They fail to get No Deal through Parliament.

3. Stalemate. Tories go back to the country in a referendum of No Deal vs. Remain.

4. Remain wins.

5. Government’s position untenable. General Election.

6. Another hung Parliament. Lib Dems are kingmakers with 25 seats respectively.

 

[Technics 1210]

Does ‘No Deal’ actually have to get through Parliament? I thought it was the default position should an agreement not pass in Parliament?

No Deal is not just the default position, it is the default legal position.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Can Boris deliver Brexit?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“The ports will be ready, and the banks will be ready, and the factories will be ready, and business will be ready.”<br><br>Prime Minister Boris Johnson says Britain will leave the EU on 31 October, “no ifs or buts”, and the country will be ready for a no-deal Brexit. <a href="https://t.co/pyLSeAz6ZA">pic.twitter.com/pyLSeAz6ZA</a></p>— Channel 4 News (@Channel4News) <a href="https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1154066039510097921?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">24 July 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[IMMY69]

I reckon this will happen.

1. Tories are hammered in Euro election - respond by choosing a No Dealer as PM to counter Farage threat.

2. They fail to get No Deal through Parliament.

3. Stalemate. Tories go back to the country in a referendum of No Deal vs. Remain.

4. Remain wins.

5. Government’s position untenable. General Election.

6. Another hung Parliament. Lib Dems are kingmakers with 25 seats respectively.

Point 1. Check

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In 95 days we’ll be out of the EU. If we can’t leave with a good deal, we’ll have to leave without one. That’s why I have tasked <a href="https://twitter.com/hmtreasury?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@hmtreasury</a> to immediately step up no deal preparations. <a href="https://t.co/noGJtBFTsT">https://t.co/noGJtBFTsT</a></p>— Sajid Javid (@sajidjavid) <a href="https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1155377430074445824?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 28, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">What's next for Brexit? <a href="https://t.co/Tig7uoowcn">https://t.co/Tig7uoowcn</a> <a href="https://t.co/xBGAkERRoB">pic.twitter.com/xBGAkERRoB</a></p>— Bloomberg Brexit (@Brexit) <a href="https://twitter.com/Brexit/status/1157563829842259968?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 3, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[PetroDollars]

Gov. seems like its working on a no deal brexit by the vibe its sending, as we know a deal wont come atleast that easily, they will try to push it through and labor will do everything to block it, if it doesnt happen and another referendum is called then its a slap in the face of british democracy - the so called champion of world democracy, they might aswell dissolve the parliament and tell the royals to take over.

 

[PetroDollars]

 

[PetroDollars]

Quite a link but very clever

 

[Gabbar Singh]

And yet the bankers backed and funded remain.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I will do everything I can to stop a no-deal bankers’ Brexit.<a href="https://t.co/As5hSEUQP7">https://t.co/As5hSEUQP7</a></p>— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) <a href="https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1166099722722873344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Firebat]

Brexit: Tory MP defects ahead of crucial no deal vote

Conservative MP Phillip Lee has defected to the Liberal Democrats ahead of a showdown between Boris Johnson and Tory rebels over Brexit.

Dr Lee, the MP for Bracknell, took his seat on the opposition benches as the PM addressed the Commons.

His defection means that Boris Johnson no longer has a working majority in the Commons.

He said the government was "pursuing a damaging Brexit in unprincipled ways", putting lives and livelihoods at risk.

Speaking in the Commons, Mr Johnson told MPs he wanted a negotiated exit from the EU and insisted there was "real momentum" behind the talks.

But he said plans by rebel Tory MPs to pass legislation effectively blocking a no-deal exit on 31 October would "destroy any chance of negotiating a new deal".

If the rebels succeeded in their aims, he said it would force him to go to Brussels to "beg for another pointless delay" to Brexit and he would "never" do that.

"It is Jeremy Corbyn's surrender bill. It means running up the white flag," he added.

Before Dr Lee's defection, Mr Johnson only had a working majority of one in the Commons.

In a letter to the prime minister, Mr Lee said Brexit divisions had "sadly transformed this once great party into something more akin to a narrow faction in which one's Conservatism is measured by how recklessly one wants to leave the European Union".

"Perhaps more disappointingly, it has become infected by the twin diseases of English nationalism and populism."

He said the Lib Dems - who back another referendum on Brexit and want the UK to remain in the UK - were best placed to "heal the divisions" and "overcome the challenges we face as a society."

'Not at war'

Dr Lee's decision to cross the floor was greeted with cheers on the opposition benches.

Amid angry exchanges during the PM's statement on last month's G7 summit, Jeremy Corbyn urged the prime minister to "reflect on his choice of language" to describe the rebels' bill.

The Labour leader said the UK was "not at war with Europe" and it was a no-deal exit which would see the UK "surrender" jobs, employment standards and social protections.

"His is a not government with no mandate, no morals and, as of today, no majority," he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49570682

 

[Ronaldo7]

Even though, I don't want BREXIT to happen but a referendum should have the say on what we do.
If people want us to leave then we HAVE to leave.

 

[IMMY69]

Even though, I don't want BREXIT to happen but a referendum should have the say on what we do.
If people want us to leave then we HAVE to leave.

Even though many people who voted to exit did so on the basis that we will get a good deal?

 

[Syed1]

Yet another exit that "Great" Britain is botching like no tomorrow.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

No deal Brexit certainly isn't happening now.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: British parliament blocks Boris Johnson's bid for general election, hours after blocking no-deal Brexit.</p>— The Spectator Index (@spectatorindex) <a href="https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1169348881181597696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 4, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tony Blair says Cameron made Brexit referendum decision in good faith, as he did with Iraq war <a href="https://t.co/LnHa66P9eH">https://t.co/LnHa66P9eH</a></p>— The Independent (@Independent) <a href="https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1174642096806010880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Encouraging.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Given that parliament has ruled out no deal, what happens if the EU and the British government cannot come to any sort of exit deal?

The whole thing is a mess - the uncertainty is hugely damaging to business and the economy, and it's turned Britain into a global laughing stock.

 

[James]

There is an official Labour group of Leave-with-a-Deal MPs now; Boris has much more influence over the ERG than May did; and the DUP is showing more willingness now to sign up to a tweaked Deal.

Overall if the government plays its cards right then they can probably get a Deal through Parliament mathematically - then we will leave on 31st October and the country can move on from this ghastly mess.

 

[Robert]

The Supreme Court has just ruled unanimously that Johnson shut Parliament illegally.

Presumably it must reconvene at once.

Can the Queen sack Johnson for misleading her?

 

[Gabbar Singh]

The Supreme Court has just ruled unanimously that Johnson shut Parliament illegally.

Presumably it must reconvene at once.

Can the Queen sack Johnson for misleading her?

lol what a global laughing stock the British political class have become. I wouldn't trust them to organise a ****-up in a brewery.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

The circus continues.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">September 5 - Boris: "I'd rather be dead in a ditch" than ask for extension.<br><br>October 16 - Barclay confirms Boris will ask to delay if no deal is agreed.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NeverTrustATory?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NeverTrustATory</a></p>— Leave.EU (@LeaveEUOfficial) <a href="https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1184416606602104832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Technics 1210]

Got to love these jokers who pull out memes and make noise on how politicians have changed their tune. It's like, you what, which planet have you been living on? A politician change his mind for the purpose of their agenda? No! Never!

It begs the questions whether these plebs understand politics.

Until these sorry sad individuals pull out something exclusive and new, they will remain - not pun intended - sorry losers of a referendum who live in shock. You got the Democrats in the USA who squandered the past 3 years just moaning about Trump, and here in the UK we have Snowflakes who have nothing better to do than to oppose and mock any leader who is trying to implement the result of the largest democratic exercise in British history.

 

[IMMY69]

Looks like a deal is close....

 

[Technics 1210]

Reports of no deal tonight!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-50068145

 

[sweep_shot]

A government source has told the BBC there will be "no deal tonight", as officials continue to work on the technical details in Brussels.

The UK and EU had been hoping to sign off a revised Brexit deal before Thursday's crunch EU council meeting.

Boris Johnson has been trying to get Tory Brexiteers and the DUP to back his revised plan for Northern Ireland.

The new draft Brexit deal has a mechanism enabling Northern Ireland to approve or reject the border plans.

This would give the Stormont Assembly the chance to vote on Brexit arrangements four years after the transition period ends in 2020.

The EU believes this replaces the controversial Northern Ireland backstop with arrangements that are sustainable over time and are democratically supported, as requested by the UK.

The backstop was designed to avoid a hard border on the island of Ireland after Brexit and involved the UK potentially retaining a very close relationship with the EU - staying in the customs union - for an indefinite period.

The legal text of the draft still has to be approved by the British government.

BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg said she understood the issues between the UK, EU and Ireland were "pretty much sorted", but that DUP sources were warning there were still gaps between proposals and what the party could support.

The Democratic Unionist Party has propped up the Conservative government since the 2017 general election and their support could be vital if Parliament is to approve any agreement Mr Johnson secures.

Earlier, the PM likened the Brexit talks to climbing Everest, saying the summit was "not far" but still surrounded by "cloud".

He will travel to Brussels to attend the EU Council summit on Thursday.

'We are working'
The UK is due to leave the EU at 23:00 GMT on 31 October and Mr Johnson has repeatedly insisted this will happen, regardless of whether there is a deal or not.

The EU's chief negotiator Michel Barnier has, meanwhile, been briefing EU ambassadors, ahead of Thursday's summit - the meeting was originally due to take place at lunch time but was put back twice.

Asked afterwards, whether there was a deal, Mr Barnier said: "We are working, we are working."

The issue of the Irish border - and how to handle the flow of goods and people across it once it becomes the border between the UK and the EU after Brexit - has long been a sticking point in the negotiations.

The border is also a matter of great political, security and diplomatic sensitivity in Ireland.

Mr Johnson's proposals for a new Brexit deal hinge on getting rid of the backstop - the solution to border issues agreed by Theresa May which proved unpalatable to many MPs.

However, his plans would see Northern Ireland treated differently from the rest of the UK - something the DUP, among others, has great concerns about.

The DUP has, in particular, been demanding assurances around the so-called consent mechanism - the idea the prime minister came up with to give communities in Northern Ireland a regular say over whatever comes into effect.

A source told Newsnight's political editor Nick Watt the thinking in Number 10 was that "the DUP never want to own a solution - at some point you have to call their bluff. You just have to hope they will sulkily acquiesce."

The party's leader, Arlene Foster, held talks in Downing Street on Tuesday night and Wednesday morning.

As well as the DUP, Mr Johnson is also trying to secure support from Tory Brexiteers, most of whom are part of the European Research Group.

Chairman Steve Baker told reporters after a meeting in Downing Street on Wednesday evening his group "hope [to] be with the prime minister, but there are thousands of people out there who are counting on us not to let them down and we are not going to".

"We are just really wishing the prime minister well and hoping he has total success. We know there will be compromises, but we will be looking at this deal in minute detail with a view to supporting it, but until we see that text, we can't say."

As Wednesday draws to a close, a deal is still, DBP - difficult but possible, in case you haven't caught the lingo by now.

I hear from both sides of the Channel that the issues between the UK, Ireland and the EU are pretty much ironed out.

A schedule is in place for EU leaders to be able to sign off a deal tomorrow, discussing it as the first item on the agenda at the summit if the ink is dry.

The government has in place its plan to ask MPs to approve the hypothetical deal in Parliament on Saturday.

Despite all the obstacles, all the warnings about the tightness of the timetable, it is not yet too late.

Boris Johnson faces another deadline on Saturday - the date set out in the so-called Benn Act, which was passed last month by MPs seeking to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

If MPs have not approved a deal - or voted for leaving the EU without one - by Saturday, then Mr Johnson must send a letter to the EU requesting an extension to 31 January 2020.

The prime minister's official spokesman has confirmed the government will table a motion for Parliament to sit this Saturday from 09:00 to 14:00 BST.

That motion would be considered on Thursday.

However, this does not mean the House of Commons will definitely sit on Saturday - the government could table the motion but not push it to a vote.

The expectation on the EU side is that a new Brexit deal text is pretty much ready.

They are now just waiting to hear from the UK side whether it can be signed off.

Even if this text is ready, though, even if it can be signed off by EU leaders, the EU will not yet be breathing a sigh of relief because they have been here before.

Theresa May signed a Brexit deal with the EU and it went on to be rejected multiple times by House of Commons.

The fear is, if a new Brexit text meets the same fate, the UK government will come back to Brussels asking for more concessions.

Link: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50072748.

 

[Robert]

Looks like they propose moving the Irish border to the ports. Probably the only way to maintain peace in NI if Brexit happens.

Can’t see the DUP accepting that, as it will move a United Ireland a step closer. That would cost the DUP seats in Stormont as Unionists swap back to the UUP.

In which case the deal cannot pass through Parliament.

What does [MENTION=136108]Donal Cozzie[/MENTION] think?

 

[Technics 1210]

Here's what is going to happen.

There will be deadlock, a General Election, a majority for Tories, OR, Tories + Brexit Party coalition.

DUP out, and Boris will pursue a clean hard Brexit, as he will have a majority. Game over for Remainers.

 

[Abdullah719]

UK and EU agree on new Brexit deal, Boris Johnson says

Negotiators from the U.K. and EU have reached a draft Brexit deal in the eleventh hour of talks and ahead of a crucial EU summit on Thursday.

Sterling rose on news after the U.K. made concessions over the Irish border, an issue that had proven to be the biggest obstacle to a deal up to that point.

Discussions to hammer out a “Withdrawal Agreement” — that will now be put before EU leaders at their summit on Thursday and Friday, and then U.K. lawmakers at the weekend — had continued late into the night Tuesday and into Wednesday.

EU leaders will have to approve the draft agreement, as will a majority of U.K. lawmakers at a possible special parliamentary summit on Saturday. The EU Parliament will also have to ratify the deal at an, as yet, unspecified date.

The clock is ticking for an agreement to be approved by both sides by Saturday. U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson is legally bound to request an extension to the current Brexit departure date of October 31 if no deal is reached, or rejected, by October 19.

British MPs had rejected a Brexit deal arrived at by previous Prime Minister Theresa May three times because of objections to the Irish “backstop” issue. This was designed to prevent a hard border on the island of Ireland if the U.K. and EU can’t agree a trade deal in a 21-month transition period.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/17/uk-and-eu-agree-on-new-brexit-deal-boris-johnson-says.html

 

[Technics 1210]

So, the DUP cave in, Was not expecting that so soon!

So seems like the new deal includes a border down the Irish Sea!

This idea was put forward from the onset, but it was the ERG that objected to it. Well now the ERG have compromised!

Trick or treat is going to be wonderful this year!

Brexit is finally moving!

 

[Robert]

Looks like a free trade proposal agreement has been reached between UK Gov and EU.

Looks like the Irish Border sticking point is being kicked down the road to 2024 with current arrangements in place and an option for Stormont to extend the arrangement to 2028. A backstop to the backstop. If Stormont actually sits.

It's not as good as full membership of the EU, but it's better than Hard Brexit.

Let's see if this gets through Parliament.

 

[Robert]

Now the DUP are saying they don't agree.....

 

[Robert]

Here's what is going to happen.

There will be deadlock, a General Election, a majority for Tories, OR, Tories + Brexit Party coalition.

DUP out, and Boris will pursue a clean hard Brexit, as he will have a majority. Game over for Remainers.

There won't be a GL until 2022 unless Parliament agrees to it.

BXP can only take votes away from the Tories. Even if they get 15% of the vote they will have no MPs due to FPTP.

LDs will take seats from the Tories in Remain constituencies such as Richmond, but Tories will take more from Labour constituencies which voted Leave.

Likely outcome on current polling is another hung Parliament. Tories will have the largest number of seats but a 'left bloc' of 200+ Labour, fifty Scot Nats and forty LDs could stymie them. Assuming a Labour leader emerges whom the LDs can get behind.

 

[Technics 1210]

There won't be a GL until 2022 unless Parliament agrees to it.

BXP can only take votes away from the Tories. Even if they get 15% of the vote they will have no MPs due to FPTP.

LDs will take seats from the Tories in Remain constituencies such as Richmond, but Tories will take more from Labour constituencies which voted Leave.

Likely outcome on current polling is another hung Parliament. Tories will have the largest number of seats but a 'left bloc' of 200+ Labour, fifty Scot Nats and forty LDs could stymie them. Assuming a Labour leader emerges whom the LDs can get behind.

Well if that is the case, why doesn't Parliament approve a GE then? IN fact, now that no Deal is off the table (it seems) Corbyn should be calling for an election!

 

[Technics 1210]

Now the DUP are saying they don't agree.....

Hearing this too, but Boris has played the DUP like a cheap toy. The announcement of a deal has been made, now if DUP reneged, then Boris will call for a 2nd referendum, this triggers a new set of processes, in that, the EU leaders then extend A50 to allow for a referendum. This means we go past the 31st October date without a deal, forcing the UK out of the EU under British law. The referendum then vanishes into thin air.

Boris has played a blinder.

 

[Robert]

Well if that is the case, why doesn't Parliament approve a GE then? IN fact, now that no Deal is off the table (it seems) Corbyn should be calling for an election!

Because Labour won’t win and probably nothing will really change, and they are in the red at present.

 

[IMMY69]

Hearing this too, but Boris has played the DUP like a cheap toy. The announcement of a deal has been made, now if DUP reneged, then Boris will call for a 2nd referendum, this triggers a new set of processes, in that, the EU leaders then extend A50 to allow for a referendum. This means we go past the 31st October date without a deal, forcing the UK out of the EU under British law. The referendum then vanishes into thin air.

Boris has played a blinder.

If the EU extend A50 then the UK remains part of the EU until the new deadline ends.

I don't see how Boris has played a blinder.

 

[Donal Cozzie]

Looks like a free trade proposal agreement has been reached between UK Gov and EU.

Looks like the Irish Border sticking point is being kicked down the road to 2024 with current arrangements in place and an option for Stormont to extend the arrangement to 2028. A backstop to the backstop. If Stormont actually sits.

It's not as good as full membership of the EU, but it's better than Hard Brexit.

Let's see if this gets through Parliament.

I said all along this would happen. DUP say no to everything. Gay marriage, abortion, one man one vote, equal rights, Brexit deals etc. Just no no no never never.

I have no idea what happens from now on. I feel this deal will fail in the Commons and an extension will be veto'd by Hungary or someone where Boris might have an ally.

 

[Kroll]

If the EU extend A50 then the UK remains part of the EU until the new deadline ends.

I don't see how Boris has played a blinder.

Jean-Claude Juncker says there will be no further extension given to the UK.

 

[the Great Khan]

I said all along this would happen. DUP say no to everything. Gay marriage, abortion, one man one vote, equal rights, Brexit deals etc. Just no no no never never.

I have no idea what happens from now on. I feel this deal will fail in the Commons and an extension will be veto'd by Hungary or someone where Boris might have an ally.

thus we get no deal and a hard border..which is what the DUP want..i suspect

 

[Donal Cozzie]

thus we get no deal and a hard border..which is what the DUP want..i suspect

Depends, the more lunatic fringe of that already lunatic party absolutely would love to see it, but the ones that arent absolutely moronic and/or actually want NI in the UK will see what a complete disaster that is.

The DUP are the stupidest most incompetent party in history. They get elected off of pure sectarian hatred politics so they dont have to bother fighting for seats because your average voter simply doesnt want "the other crowd" taking over, they backed Brexit knowing it would fail because they knew throwing out soundbites in a losing cause about the UK, sovereignty bla bla would appeal to their average voter.

Obviously they didnt anticipate actually winning, hence the complete mess they're in. A hard border makes a UI likely within the next decade, a Remain result leaves them looking idiotic and incompetent and a deal leaves them in an economic UI and again weakens their beloved union.

Morons. If nothing else Brexit has given me wonderful entertainment watching them squirm.

 

[Technics 1210]

If the EU extend A50 then the UK remains part of the EU until the new deadline ends.

I don't see how Boris has played a blinder.

Ahh as always subservient to EU law.

British Law says we are out on the 31st October. Why do you think there was such a palava when Boris prorogued Parliament for 5 weeks? It was nothing to with the debate, but more to do with pushing parliament session past 31st.

Also, when calling a referendum it is not A50 that is extended, A50 is halted, because, A50 could be rescinded if the people voted to remain.

Anyway, side stepping the DUP is a blinder considering the DUP made May's work nigh on impossible.

 

[Abdullah719]

European Union announces new Brexit deal with UK

Britain and the European Union have finally struck a new Brexit deal after days of intense back-and-forth negotiations, setting the stage for another major parliamentary showdown over the United Kingdom's bid to leave the bloc after months of political chaos.

Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the European Commission, announced the agreement on Thursday just hours before EU leaders were due to meet in Brussels, whom he called on to back the deal.

"Where there is a will, there is a deal - we have one! It's a fair and balanced agreement for the EU and the UK and it is testament to our commitment to find solutions," Juncker said in a post on Twitter.

The new agreement - which sets out a revised plan for Northern Ireland, a major stumbling block in the previous deal - must still be formally approved by all of the EU's member states and ratified by the European and UK Parliaments.

It comes just two weeks before the United Kingdom is scheduled to depart the 28-member bloc on October 31.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson praised the last-minute breakthrough.

"We've got a great new deal that takes back control - now Parliament should get Brexit done on Saturday so we can move on to other priorities like the cost of living, the NHS, violent crime and our environment #GetBrexitDone #TakeBackControl," Johnson said in a post on Twitter.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/eu-juncker-brexit-deal-agreed-191017094418680.html

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yippee. Now we'll spend another two years trying to railroad approval from parliament and other EU member states. What a contribution to the British Isles the Brexit movement has been.

 

[WC-Passion]

Deal is worse than May's. What a joke!