Mushfiqur Rahim 144 (150) out of a total of 261 - One of the best innings under pressure

[Surf]

Is this one of the best innings for atleast bangladesh in a big tournament. Coming at 3 down for a handful and mostly playing with the tail for majority of his innings yet taking his team to a very defend able total in a must win game. What a classy innings from a very underrated player.

Not to forget Tamim coming out there for his team when he could have further aggravated his wrist and quite possibly ending his career especially at his age.

This is no jynx thread just wanted to apreciate this effort.

 

[Proactive_]

Outstanding innings. Finally some ODI cricket with purpose after the CT. Love multi team ODI tournaments like these.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Has played at least a few such innings before...in South Africa last year and vs India in the 2014 Asia Cup. Both games were losses so no one remembers.

True, this one trumps those IMO, more so if we go on to win.

But hats off to Tamim otherwise SL would be chasing 230 and not 260.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Erm dropped 3 times vs a mediocre attack.

 

[light]

the best innings for BD i witnessed was the double century of shakib/muhamudulla during CT. This is up there aswell

 

[Executioner]

Erm dropped 3 times vs a mediocre attack.

Twice

Many struggle to score 50 after being dropped twice. He scored 60% of team runs and got no support.

 

[MenInG]

I have edited out Babar bit from OP as it serves to disrespect Mush's innings.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Erm dropped 3 times vs a mediocre attack.

Same with some of Kohli's knocks in England and that famous hundred by Tendulkar vs Steyn back in 2011.

 

[Itachi]

To be fair, against top teams, that effort would be in a losing cause.

Good effort. But from a Bangladesh point of view.

 

[Dios]

To be fair, against top teams, that effort would be in a losing cause.

Good effort. But from a Bangladesh point of view.

Did you watch the match? If not, don't write nonsense. Check out the fall of wickets and Mushfiq's SR in the first 30 - 40 balls to get an idea of what he had to deal with and how he accelerated in the end.

 

[DRsohail]

really a gem of an innings,this little guy is a special fighter and above all he scored these runs in such hot weather and did keep as well,bravo,one of the best innings by Bangladeshi player .

 

[Executioner]

To be fair, against top teams, that effort would be in a losing cause.

Good effort. But from a Bangladesh point of view.

Yeah a 144(150) on a 230-par wicket after walking in at 1-2 is "just a good effort". Show me how many modern day middle order batsmen have scored 140+ on wickets where 250 is a very good total.

 

[Executioner]

Most would have struggled to simple play 120+ deliveries in the Dubai heat.

 

[DRsohail]

Most would have struggled to simple play 120+ deliveries in the Dubai heat.

Our beloved sarfaraz would have collapsed after 30 runs,it was a special effort.He is real gem,Bangladdesh will miss him once h goes.

 

[MMHS]

really a gem of an innings,this little guy is a special fighter and above all he scored these runs in such hot weather and did keep as well,bravo,one of the best innings by Bangladeshi player .

I guess, Liton kept - he is 2nd WK in the squad, making XI on batting merit.

 

[DRsohail]

I guess, Liton kept - he is 2nd WK in the squad, making XI on batting merit.

I did not watch second innings, so may be i am wrong but i have seen him scoring double ton in Srilanka and then keeping so no doubt about his fitness.

 

[Mainul]

It's an extraordinary innings under pressure on a not too batting friendly wicket. Those who are taking his innings lightly are doing it just for the sake of arguing.

 

[DRsohail]

It's an extraordinary innings under pressure on a not too batting friendly wicket. Those who are taking his innings lightly are doing it just for the sake of arguing.

They are either blind are feeling insecure.

 

[Hasan2K8]

Absolutely excellent Innings fought alone, brilliant finish. One of the best BD ODi knocks

 

[the_outsider]

One of the best ODI innings of 2018, so far.

 

[Executioner]

It's an extraordinary innings under pressure on a not too batting friendly wicket. Those who are taking his innings lightly are doing it just for the sake of arguing.

Comms like Sangakkara and Laxman were mentioning that you won't see too many better innings in modern day cricket. I am sure given these blind haters have no idea about the context and probably haven't watched a single over of the match.

 

[Hasan2K8]

Best innings I’ve seen in a long time under the circumstances he was in throughout the innings. From such position of being under the pump, rebuilding the innings, then going on to score big hundred and take it to a fighting, above par score lifted everyone and turned out it was way too much Lankans to get anywhere near the target. All came from the Masterpiece of Mushys innings.

 

[RainMan_]

He will walk into any side with his eyes closed. He's easily among the top 5 batters from Asia right now.

 

[the_outsider]

He will walk into any side with his eyes closed. He's easily among the top 5 batters from Asia right now.

Oh please stop your embarrassing hyperboles.

A batsman with an average of 33 and SR 78 will not even be in the A side of any good ODI team.

And he's most certainly nowhere near the top 5 in Asia.

 

[Executioner]

Oh please stop your embarrassing hyperboles.

A batsman with an average of 33 and SR 78 will not even be in the A side of any good ODI team.

And he's most certainly nowhere near the top 5 in Asia.

have you checked his recent performances? he debuted at the age of 16 and struggled in the beginning. After the age of 22 he became a quality bat.

 

[Hasan2K8]

Oh please stop your embarrassing hyperboles.

A batsman with an average of 33 and SR 78 will not even be in the A side of any good ODI team.

And he's most certainly nowhere near the top 5 in Asia.

His average this year, last many years since 2015 WC been 50+. His early cricket career wasnt so bright so wasnt most of thems, pre 2011, hence the reason why the averages of Mushy and Tamims not as high. If they started cricket post 2010 it been lot higher.

 

[RainMan_]

Oh please stop your embarrassing hyperboles.

A batsman with an average of 33 and SR 78 will not even be in the A side of any good ODI team.

And he's most certainly nowhere near the top 5 in Asia.

Mushfiqur has been averaging 57 with the bat in last 12 months in ODIs.

He has been averaging 47 with the bat in ODIs in last 5 years. Most importantly he comes at three, hence these averages didn't come for remaining not out at the end.

But I will go easy on u since u obviously didn't know these facts. An odi batsman with an average close to 50 will walk into any side.

 

[Abdullah719]

Mushfiqur has been averaging 57 with the bat in last 12 months in ODIs.

He has been averaging 47 with the bat in ODIs in last 5 years. Most importantly he comes at three, hence these averages didn't come for remaining not out at the end.

But I will go easy on u since u obviously didn't know these facts. An odi batsman with an average close to 50 will walk into any side.

He has only batted at #3 11 times. And not once since 2015.

Rest is fairly accurate I think.

 

[the_outsider]

Mushfiqur has been averaging 57 with the bat in last 12 months in ODIs.

He has been averaging 47 with the bat in ODIs in last 5 years. Most importantly he comes at three, hence these averages didn't come for remaining not out at the end.

But I will go easy on u since u obviously didn't know these facts. An odi batsman with an average close to 50 will walk into any side.

The man's been playing for 12+ years but just because he's had a couple of good seasons he's all of a sudden in the top 5? How pathetic.

He's not even the best batsman in his own side. That's Tamim. And you think he's in the top 5 among Asians? You think he will find a place in the top 5 in any good team? Okay then, who will he replace in the Indian team, SA team, AUS team or Eng team? Who will he replace? Rohit? Warner? Amla? Du Plessis? Kohli? Dhawan? Babar? Smith? Root? Bairstow? Stokes?

Lol. Keep dreaming.

And btw, by a few good seasons, I mean that Rahim has averaged 40 runs per innings against top 5 teams in the last 3 years. 40 runs. That's the best that Mushfiqur Rahim could do in 12 years of cricket. It's not bad, surely. But if that is the peak of a batsman, then its clear that he's rather ordinary.

At the end of the day, Rahim is still a guy that averages 33 striking at 78. It proves that he's been a mediocre player for the vast majority of his career.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

To be fair, against top teams, that effort would be in a losing cause.

Good effort. But from a Bangladesh point of view.

Thats like saying good effort from an Indian point of view on Rohit's 264 given it wasn't against a "top team".

 

[Ab Fan]

Is this one of the best innings for atleast bangladesh in a big tournament. Coming at 3 down for a handful and mostly playing with the tail for majority of his innings yet taking his team to a very defend able total in a must win game. What a classy innings from a very underrated player.

Not to forget Tamim coming out there for his team when he could have further aggravated his wrist and quite possibly ending his career especially at his age.

This is no jynx thread just wanted to apreciate this effort.

Who was the opposition? Isn't there an Asia cup in a while?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Well played Mushi. Bangladesh deserved to win this match. This group will be much tighter than the Ind, Pak and Hong Kong one.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

The man's been playing for 12+ years but just because he's had a couple of good seasons he's all of a sudden in the top 5? How pathetic.

He's not even the best batsman in his own side. That's Tamim. And you think he's in the top 5 among Asians? You think he will find a place in the top 5 in any good team? Okay then, who will he replace in the Indian team, SA team, AUS team or Eng team? Who will he replace? Rohit? Warner? Amla? Du Plessis? Kohli? Dhawan? Babar? Smith? Root? Bairstow? Stokes?

Lol. Keep dreaming.

And btw, by a few good seasons, I mean that Rahim has averaged 40 runs per innings against top 5 teams in the last 3 years. 40 runs. That's the best that Mushfiqur Rahim could do in 12 years of cricket. It's not bad, surely. But if that is the peak of a batsman, then its clear that he's rather ordinary.

At the end of the day, Rahim is still a guy that averages 33 striking at 78. It proves that he's been a mediocre player for the vast majority of his career.

He's not far away from Babar statistically speaking. If you factor the strength of opposition he probably draws level to Babar. I may be mistaken, but I believe Babar has got the bulk of his runs vs West Indies.

Mushy has hundreds vs "top teams" to quote some others like India, IN South Africa, etc despite rarely batting in the top order. Look how many tons MS Dhoni has as a WK-batsman.

 

[Ab Fan]

Mushi is an excellent batsmen. Arguably greatest batsmen produced by BD, although he had his moments of brain-fades.

Quality inning against a fine opposition, Sri Lanka. Brings a bit of fun to Asia Cup now. Will watch the India-Pak match for sure.

 

[world cup captain]

Reminded me on Dhoni's inning in the first match of the Aane Do series. Mushi carried the team today which should set them up for qualification of the next round

 

[the_outsider]

He's not far away from Babar statistically speaking. If you factor the strength of opposition he probably draws level to Babar. I may be mistaken, but I believe Babar has got the bulk of his runs vs West Indies.

Mushy has hundreds vs "top teams" to quote some others like India, IN South Africa, etc despite rarely batting in the top order. Look how many tons MS Dhoni has as a WK-batsman.

Well first of all, kudos to you to have the guts to compare Mushi to Dhoni.

Mushi has 3 centuries in his career against top teams. Dhoni has 7 against top teams.

Now, I am not going to be so harsh on Mushi and judge him on his century count. A number 5 batsman isn't there to score centuries. But he should be scoring 50s. But he has failed to do that too often in the past.

Rahim scores a 50 every 6 innings. Dhoni scores one every 4 innings. Even Tamim scores a 50 every 4 innings.

Today's innings from Rahim was a brilliant one. I have already said so in my earlier post.
But overall, Rahim is, at best, an above average cricketer. That's about it.

 

[Justcrazy]

Excellent innings.

He is very under ratted.

 

[Varun]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">Alhamdulillah <a href="https://t.co/lKWVyIJe4P">pic.twitter.com/lKWVyIJe4P</a></p>— Mushfiqur Rahim (@mushfiqur15) <a href="https://twitter.com/mushfiqur15/status/1041045225236561921?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 15, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[RainMan_]

The man's been playing for 12+ years but just because he's had a couple of good seasons he's all of a sudden in the top 5? How pathetic.

He's not even the best batsman in his own side. That's Tamim. And you think he's in the top 5 among Asians? You think he will find a place in the top 5 in any good team? Okay then, who will he replace in the Indian team, SA team, AUS team or Eng team? Who will he replace? Rohit? Warner? Amla? Du Plessis? Kohli? Dhawan? Babar? Smith? Root? Bairstow? Stokes?

Lol. Keep dreaming.

And btw, by a few good seasons, I mean that Rahim has averaged 40 runs per innings against top 5 teams in the last 3 years. 40 runs. That's the best that Mushfiqur Rahim could do in 12 years of cricket. It's not bad, surely. But if that is the peak of a batsman, then its clear that he's rather ordinary.

At the end of the day, Rahim is still a guy that averages 33 striking at 78. It proves that he's been a mediocre player for the vast majority of his career.

First of all, I wasn't even arguing with u in my previous post since it was quite clear to me that u had no idea about how well mushy has been performing of late. That's why I just gave u a small clue so that u can go and check it by urself.

But obviously it wasn't enough for u. Otherwise u wouldn't have made the post that I'm quoting now and wouldn't have called a lengthy 5 years time period as couple of good seasons.

There is nothing called top 5 or top 3 teams in ODIs. Ranking positions r always changing. Barring teams like AFG or ZIM every single international cricket playing nation has the ability to beat each other anytime and anywhere. Hence having good performances against the bottom 3 (in ur word) is as important as having good performances against the top 3. But still if u r only interested about mushy's batting performance against top teams I'll categorically show u how well mushy has been performing in ODIs against top teams was well.

In last 3 years these r the batting averages of mushy against top odi teams

1. India - 61

2. England - 60

3. New Zealand - 78

4. South Africa - 89

5. Sl- 42.


If we go back 5 years from now to include his performance against Pak we will see he has been averaging over 100 with the bat against Pak in that time period.

Aa a matter of fact, mushy always brings out his best against top teams and has always performed well against top teams.

A player who has been averaging that high for freaking 3 years against teams like SA, ENG, NZ and IND in ODIs will walk into any cricket team without breaking a sweat.
[MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION]

 

[the_outsider]

First of all, I wasn't even arguing with u in my previous post since it was quite clear to me that u had no idea about how well mushy has been performing of late. That's why I just gave u a small clue so that u can go and check it by urself.

But obviously it wasn't enough for u. Otherwise u wouldn't have made the post that I'm quoting now and wouldn't have called a lengthy 5 years time period as couple of good seasons.

There is nothing called top 5 or top 3 teams in ODIs. Ranking positions r always changing. Barring teams like AFG or ZIM every single international cricket playing nation has the ability to beat each other anytime and anywhere. Hence having good performances against the bottom 3 (in ur word) is as important as having good performances against the top 3. But still if u r only interested about mushy's batting performance against top teams I'll categorically show u how well mushy has been performing in ODIs against top teams was well.

In last 3 years these r the batting averages of mushy against top odi teams

1. India - 61

2. England - 60

3. New Zealand - 78

4. South Africa - 89

5. Sl- 42.


If we go back 5 years from now to include his performance against Pak we will see he has been averaging over 100 with the bat against Pak in that time period.

Aa a matter of fact, mushy always brings out his best against top teams and has always performed well against top teams.

A player who has been averaging that high for freaking 3 years against teams like SA, ENG, NZ and IND in ODIs will walk into any cricket team without breaking a sweat.

[MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION]

Don't try to mislead the public with those stats.

I have already checked the stats and those averages are grossly inflated by NOs.

In reality, Rahim averages 40 runs per innings against Ind, AUS, Eng, NZ and SA in the past 5 years.

These 5 teams have had the maximum number of days in the top 5 in the ICC rankings in the last 5 years. That is why I am bringing up these teams in particular.


But you wanna give it a shot? Go ahead. Let's see how you manage to put Rahim in the top 5 in Asia.

Let's see how you put Rahim ahead of Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan, Dhoni, Babar, Tamim - all of whom have better stats and performances.

Let's see what malarkey you come up with this time.

 

[the_outsider]

A player who has been averaging that high for freaking 3 years against teams like SA, ENG, NZ and IND in ODIs will walk into any cricket team without breaking a sweat.

[MENTION=147270]the_outsider[/MENTION]

Now that I have exposed those averages for what they actually are let me also point this out.

3 years is nothing is a career of 12+ years. That's less than 25% of the time. So Rahim has performed less than 25% of his life. For 7-8 years before that he averaged in 20s! Like a freaking tailender.

Well done Mushfiqur Rahim, you ATG!

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Don't try to mislead the public with those stats.

I have already checked the stats and those averages are grossly inflated by NOs.

In reality, Rahim averages 40 runs per innings against Ind, AUS, Eng, NZ and SA in the past 5 years.

These 5 teams have had the maximum number of days in the top 5 in the ICC rankings in the last 5 years. That is why I am bringing up these teams in particular.


But you wanna give it a shot? Go ahead. Let's see how you manage to put Rahim in the top 5 in Asia.

Let's see how you put Rahim ahead of Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan, Dhoni, Babar, Tamim - all of whom have better stats and performances.

Let's see what malarkey you come up with this time.

Musfiq has won far more matches for Bangladesh in last 5 years than Dhoni has for India.

 

[the_outsider]

Musfiq has won far more matches for Bangladesh in last 5 years than Dhoni has for India.

And if both Mushi and Dhoni had been playing only for the last 5 years, we'd have something to discuss.

But that's not the case, is it now?

 

[Executioner]

Don't try to mislead the public with those stats.

I have already checked the stats and those averages are grossly inflated by NOs.

In reality, Rahim averages 40 runs per innings against Ind, AUS, Eng, NZ and SA in the past 5 years.

These 5 teams have had the maximum number of days in the top 5 in the ICC rankings in the last 5 years. That is why I am bringing up these teams in particular.


But you wanna give it a shot? Go ahead. Let's see how you manage to put Rahim in the top 5 in Asia.

Let's see how you put Rahim ahead of Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan, Dhoni, Babar, Tamim - all of whom have better stats and performances.

Let's see what malarkey you come up with this time.

What do you mean by inflated by NOs?

If he could bat on he would have scored more runs right?

Dhoni too had great averages but had lots of NO. Didn't make him any less of a player. Finishers are supposed to be there till the end.

 

[RainMan_]

Now that I have exposed those averages for what they actually are let me also point this out.

3 years is nothing is a career of 12+ years. That's less than 25% of the time. So Rahim has performed less than 25% of his life. For 7-8 years before that he averaged in 20s! Like a freaking tailender.

Well done Mushfiqur Rahim, you ATG!

There's nothing wrong in admitting that u were wrong and had no clue about the batting prowess of Mushfiqur. It will just increase ur credibility. But as usual u r dragging this along without knowing anything even though cold hard facts have already been presented with in front of u.

It's not my problem if u r too dense to realise that we r talking a out current Mushfiqur Rahim who who has been performing exceptionally well for last 3/5 years and he would get into any international team, not the old Mushfiqur.

Secondly, Babar is way below Mushfiqur as a batsman. All he has under his belt is few good knocks against West indies at home that has inflated his average. Obviously he has potential, but 30 ish average against teams like NZ, SA, IND and ENG clearly suggests that he's no match for Mushfiqur.

And yes, Mushfiqur is obviously better than Dhawan.

 

[todfod 11]

Finally seeing some fight.. some tournament with a meaning after CT... was tired of rubbish bilaterals. Great inning by the lil master from bangladesh always have been his fan..

 

[the_outsider]

What do you mean by inflated by NOs?

If he could bat on he would have scored more runs right?

Dhoni too had great averages but had lots of NO. Didn't make him any less of a player. Finishers are supposed to be there till the end.

MS Dhoni, after 14 years in his career, even after the last few years of poor form still averages almost 37 runs per innings (excluding NOs) while batting at number 6 for most of his career.

Rahim, at his absolute best i.e. last 5 years in his 12 year career averages 40 runs per innings batting at number 4 for the majority of his career. Overall in his 12 year career he has made 28.5 runs per innings.

It's that simple. Rahim is good. But nothing special.

 

[the_outsider]

There's nothing wrong in admitting that u were wrong and had no clue about the batting prowess of Mushfiqur. It will just increase ur credibility. But as usual u r dragging this along without knowing anything even though cold hard facts have already been presented with in front of u.

It's not my problem if u r too dense to realise that we r talking a out current Mushfiqur Rahim who who has been performing exceptionally well for last 3/5 years and he would get into any international team, not the old Mushfiqur.

Secondly, Babar is way below Mushfiqur as a batsman. All he has under his belt is few good knocks against West indies at home that has inflated his average. Obviously he has potential, but 30 ish average against teams like NZ, SA, IND and ENG clearly suggests that he's no match for Mushfiqur.

And yes, Mushfiqur is obviously better than Dhawan.

Mushfiqur is only great in Bangladesh. And that's exactly what he deserves. Nothing more and nothing else.

If you actually had any substance in you you would tried to refute my points. But you have failed and resorted to as hominem and whataboutery, as usual.

Let's see how many neutral fans agree with you that Rahim is a better LOI batsman than Dhawan. Tag whomever you please.

You are not a cricket fan. You don't understand cricket and stats. You're just a cheerleader for your team.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Great knock, pethaps best by a BD batsman. To comr in at kiterally 3/3 and score 144 is an extra ordinary effort.

Understabdable BD fans have got something to celebrate after their great ODI run in 2015. But go easy on Mushi being the top 5, top 10 batsman please. He's not even the top 3 wk-batsman. De Kock, Buttler and even an over the hill Dhoni are much better. He's perhaps in the same league as Chandimal, Dickwella, Taylor and Shahzad.

As for Asian batsmen, Kohli, Sharma, Dhawan, Dhoni, Babar, Fakar, Mathews, Tamim are all better. Yes he's the second best batsman in Bangladesh.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Great knock, pethaps best by a BD batsman. To comr in at kiterally 3/3 and score 144 is an extra ordinary effort.

Understabdable BD fans have got something to celebrate after their great ODI run in 2015. But go easy on Mushi being the top 5, top 10 batsman please. He's not even the top 3 wk-batsman. De Kock, Buttler and even an over the hill Dhoni are much better. He's perhaps in the same league as Chandimal, Dickwella, Taylor and Shahzad.

As for Asian batsmen, Kohli, Sharma, Dhawan, Dhoni, Babar, Fakar, Mathews, Tamim are all better. Yes he's the second best batsman in Bangladesh.

It's extremely unfair to compare Mushfiqur to the likes of Buttler. Buttler has a great chance to become GOAT wicket-keeper batsman in LOIs if he can keep up his stats.

 

[the_outsider]

Great knock, pethaps best by a BD batsman. To comr in at kiterally 3/3 and score 144 is an extra ordinary effort.

Understabdable BD fans have got something to celebrate after their great ODI run in 2015. But go easy on Mushi being the top 5, top 10 batsman please. He's not even the top 3 wk-batsman. De Kock, Buttler and even an over the hill Dhoni are much better. He's perhaps in the same league as Chandimal, Dickwella, Taylor and Shahzad.

As for Asian batsmen, Kohli, Sharma, Dhawan, Dhoni, Babar, Fakar, Mathews, Tamim are all better. Yes he's the second best batsman in Bangladesh.

You're doing a great disservice to Taylor by clubbing him with the likes of Dickwella and Chandimal. Just look at his numbers. He's a world class batsman. And extremely underrated by SC fans.

 

[RainMan_]

Mushfiqur is only great in Bangladesh. And that's exactly what he deserves. Nothing more and nothing else.

If you actually had any substance in you you would tried to refute my points. But you have failed and resorted to as hominem and whataboutery, as usual.

Let's see how many neutral fans agree with you that Rahim is a better LOI batsman than Dhawan. Tag whomever you please.

You are not a cricket fan. You don't understand cricket and stats. You're just a cheerleader for your team.

What was there to refute? Mushfiqur is better than Dhawan and Babar. Dhoni who's at the twilight of his career will struggle to get into Bangladesh team as a wicketkeeper batsman by replacing mushy. Hence, mushy is better than old and almost finished player like Dhoni.


U r the one who said that mushy would struggle to get into the A side of other odi teams when the fact is every single team will start jumping with sheer joy if they r allowed to take mushy as a middle order batsman in their team. I just showed u with statistical data that u couldn't be any more wrong with ur assessment, noting else.


Lastly many people might disagree with me if I say that Shakib is head and shoulder above kapil Dev as an allrounder in tests and he's one of the greatest test allrounders of all time. But that won't necessarily make my statement false. Because most of these so called neutrals have a superficial knowledge about the quality of a player and r usually driven by their preconceived notion when they r judging a player.

 

[cricketindiafan]

What was there to refute? Mushfiqur is better than Dhawan and Babar. Dhoni who's at the twilight of his career will struggle to get into Bangladesh team as a wicketkeeper batsman by replacing mushy. Hence, mushy is better than old and almost finished player like Dhoni.


U r the one who said that mushy would struggle to get into the A side of other odi teams when the fact is every single team will start jumping with sheer joy if they r allowed to take mushy as a middle order batsman in their team. I just showed u with statistical data that u couldn't be any more wrong with ur assessment, noting else.


Lastly many people might disagree with me if I say that Shakib is head and shoulder above kapil Dev as an allrounder in tests and he's one of the greatest test allrounders of all time. But that won't necessarily make my statement false. Because most of these so called neutrals have a superficial knowledge about the quality of a player and r usually driven by their preconceived notion when they r judging a player.

Tammi better than Gavaskar
Monimul better than Dravid
Shakib better than Kapil
Meihdy better than Ashwin and Bhajji

In another few years, someone from Bangladesh will become better than Sachin as well.

 

[the_outsider]

Tammi better than Gavaskar
Monimul better than Dravid
Shakib better than Kapil
Meihdy better than Ashwin and Bhajji

In another few years, someone from Bangladesh will become better than Sachin as well.

You forgot the 3 WCs they have won, the 12 Asia Cups and the Test Mace for 5 years in a row.

Bangladesh is a team of XI ATGs. We should be honoured they are bothering to play cricket with lesser mortals like Indians, Pakistanis, the English, etc.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Well first of all, kudos to you to have the guts to compare Mushi to Dhoni.

Not a question of guts but just one of having half a brain.

Today's innings from Rahim was a brilliant one. I have already said so in my earlier post.
But overall, Rahim is, at best, an above average cricketer. That's about it.

Thats a fair assessment of his career overall. As you said 33 average at 78 strike rate is nothing more than decent. Granted, thats light years better than what you or I or anyone on this forum could achieve.

However, context is key. When judging players today, I like to look at the recent past. In the last 3 years (since the end of the last WC) if we look at batting stats we see where the modern game has headed. I am fully aware that Mushfiqur Rahim averaged 20 at a strike rate of 55 back in 2008. Totally irrelevant to 2018 and beyond.

Kohli leads the way with an average of 79 at a strike rate of 97. Even in today's batting friendly era, with most of the rules going against the bowling side, that is a phenomenal record.

We see that the best international batsman average around 50 at a strike rate of 90+. Have a look for yourself here

By this standard Tendulkar's career numbers of 45 and 85 would be distinctly ordinary - not to mention pale in comparison to Kohli. But the era's are different and that is the context.

So we see the top 10 by average are:

Kohli
R Taylor
Root
Tamim
Rohit
Faf
Warner
Babar
Bairstow
ABD

Kane Williamson and Steve Smith don't even crack the top 10.

If you look at strike rate, Kohli ranks 9th, but he's still way ahead of Root, Williamson, and Smith. Thus a strike rate rank of 10 is still world class.

Given that information we see that Mushfiq's average is 47 at a strike rate of 90. Which puts him level with the likes of Williamson and Smith. Does that warrant a "at best, above average" tag? I disagree. I would say that is "not the best batsman in the world, but damn good" tag.

Now it might be argued Mushy has scored soft runs akin to say Shahriar Nafees (or Babar Azam). So I looked it up: Mushy vs top 6 teams

Average actually jumps to 60 at a strike rate of 91.

So then I looked at it away from Bangladesh, since BD can't win outside of Mirpur, ergo you'd expect the players to struggle individually as well: Mushy vs top 6 outside of Bangladesh

Average skyrockets to 69, strike rate falls, but still a decent 83.

______________

So my assessment - and I've watched about 80% of career live so its not just highlight reels - is that Rahim from 2011 onwards became a world class batsmen just lacking in consistency. But since 2015, he is in the 2nd tier of ODI batsmen, next to the likes of the Williamsons and Steve Smiths.

 

[the_outsider]

Not a question of guts but just one of having half a brain.



Thats a fair assessment of his career overall. As you said 33 average at 78 strike rate is nothing more than decent. Granted, thats light years better than what you or I or anyone on this forum could achieve.

However, context is key. When judging players today, I like to look at the recent past. In the last 3 years (since the end of the last WC) if we look at batting stats we see where the modern game has headed. I am fully aware that Mushfiqur Rahim averaged 20 at a strike rate of 55 back in 2008. Totally irrelevant to 2018 and beyond.

Kohli leads the way with an average of 79 at a strike rate of 97. Even in today's batting friendly era, with most of the rules going against the bowling side, that is a phenomenal record.

We see that the best international batsman average around 50 at a strike rate of 90+. Have a look for yourself here

By this standard Tendulkar's career numbers of 45 and 85 would be distinctly ordinary - not to mention pale in comparison to Kohli. But the era's are different and that is the context.

So we see the top 10 by average are:

Kohli
R Taylor
Root
Tamim
Rohit
Faf
Warner
Babar
Bairstow
ABD

Kane Williamson and Steve Smith don't even crack the top 10.

If you look at strike rate, Kohli ranks 9th, but he's still way ahead of Root, Williamson, and Smith. Thus a strike rate rank of 10 is still world class.

Given that information we see that Mushfiq's average is 47 at a strike rate of 90. Which puts him level with the likes of Williamson and Smith. Does that warrant a "at best, above average" tag? I disagree. I would say that is "not the best batsman in the world, but damn good" tag.

Now it might be argued Mushy has scored soft runs akin to say Shahriar Nafees (or Babar Azam). So I looked it up: Mushy vs top 6 teams

Average actually jumps to 60 at a strike rate of 91.

So then I looked at it away from Bangladesh, since BD can't win outside of Mirpur, ergo you'd expect the players to struggle individually as well: Mushy vs top 6 outside of Bangladesh

Average skyrockets to 69, strike rate falls, but still a decent 83.

______________

So my assessment - and I've watched about 80% of career live so its not just highlight reels - is that Rahim from 2011 onwards became a world class batsmen just lacking in consistency. But since 2015, he is in the 2nd tier of ODI batsmen, next to the likes of the Williamsons and Steve Smiths.

You took a lot of time to get the stats and present a proper case so I genuinely want to say kudos on that. Few few posters can do this on here and I for myself really appreciate it when someone makes the effort to make a rational argument.

I had checked all of these stats before I posted my first reply. It is very clear that he's been quite good for the last 3 years. If you look at my first post, I even said that this innings of 144 is the best ODI innings of the year so far.

Having said all that, you must understand that 3 good years does not automatically undo 9 below average years. Dimuth Karunatne of SL has been averaging 46 in tests in the last 2 years. Kraigg Brathwaite has been averaging 45, Dean Elgar - a 6-year career avg of 41. How much do reckon these people get rated?

Even Martin Guptill - a man who has been averaging close to 50 since 2013 - doesn't make it into the top 10.

And yet, Rainman claims he walks into any ODI team. That he is an Asian Top 5. And that he is "clearly better" than Shikhar Dhawan, a batsman who is the highest run scorer in ICC tournaments since 2013.

No. I'm sorry. It doesn't work that way. Greatness is earned of years and years of performance. Not by turning up for only 3-4 years in a 12-year long career. Smith and Williamson have been performing for the vast majority of their careers. Not for only 25% of it.

If Rahim can maintain his level for the remaining 4-5 years of his career, then a case can certainly be made about his greatness. But the overzealousness of [MENTION=146500]RainMan_[/MENTION] has taken over his ability to think intelligently, yet again.

 

[Oxfordchamp]

You took a lot of time to get the stats and present a proper case so I genuinely want to say kudos on that. Few few posters can do this on here and I for myself really appreciate it when someone makes the effort to make a rational argument.

I had checked all of these stats before I posted my first reply. It is very clear that he's been quite good for the last 3 years. If you look at my first post, I even said that this innings of 144 is the best ODI innings of the year so far.

Having said all that, you must understand that 3 good years does not automatically undo 9 below average years. Dimuth Karunatne of SL has been averaging 46 in tests in the last 2 years. Kraigg Brathwaite has been averaging 45, Dean Elgar - a 6-year career avg of 41. How much do reckon these people get rated?

Even Martin Guptill - a man who has been averaging close to 50 since 2013 - doesn't make it into the top 10.

And yet, Rainman claims he walks into any ODI team. That he is an Asian Top 5. And that he is "clearly better" than Shikhar Dhawan, a batsman who is the highest run scorer in ICC tournaments since 2013.

No. I'm sorry. It doesn't work that way. Greatness is earned of years and years of performance. Not by turning up for only 3-4 years in a 12-year long career. Smith and Williamson have been performing for the vast majority of their careers. Not for only 25% of it.

If Rahim can maintain his level for the remaining 4-5 years of his career, then a case can certainly be made about his greatness. But the overzealousness of [MENTION=146500]RainMan_[/MENTION] has taken over his ability to think intelligently, yet again.

Has he cracked into top 10 batsman rating even once...I doubt it..so no point saying he is amongst the best...he is second tier in current batsmen...

 

[shaz619]

Don't get me wrong it's a great innings, but no Bengali will ever surpass this glorious knock:

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] I remember it as if it were yesterday, so much magic; he was just a little boy! smashing a GOAT team all over the park !

 

[KingKhanWC]

Don't get me wrong it's a great innings, but no Bengali will ever surpass this glorious knock:



[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] I remember it as if it were yesterday, so much magic; he was just a little boy! smashing a GOAT team all over the park !

Good call. Bacha came to the party like No Bangladeshi before him. Flicks, drives, sweeps, pulls, the innings had it all. Up against a great Aussie ODI side his innings alone showed Bangladesh batsmen can score big in the big arena.

 

[shaz619]

Good call. Bacha came to the party like No Bangladeshi before him. Flicks, drives, sweeps, pulls, the innings had it all. Up against a great Aussie ODI side his innings alone showed Bangladesh batsmen can score big in the big arena.

Most importantly it was a match winning knock to! and it was a very important win for BD in those days when they use to get smashed from genesis to revelations by everyone

 

[KingKhanWC]

Most importantly it was a match winning knock to! and it was a very important win for BD in those days when they use to get smashed from genesis to revelations by everyone

I have no clue as to why he declined so much, ended up with an avg of 22 which should never have happened. I blame the Bangladeshi management for ruining the lad. Now the Bangladesh team may have won the odd game here and there but are still the whipping boys of Asia.

 

[the_outsider]

I have no clue as to why he declined so much, ended up with an avg of 22 which should never have happened. I blame the Bangladeshi management for ruining the lad. Now the Bangladesh team may have won the odd game here and there but are still the whipping boys of Asia.

He was banned for fixing, wasn't he? Don't think BAN management should take the blame.

 

[KingKhanWC]

He was banned for fixing, wasn't he? Don't think BAN management should take the blame.

This was 8/9 years after the knock against Aus. What happened to him before this?

 

[the_outsider]

This was 8/9 years after the knock against Aus. What happened to him before this?

I would assume that someone who went to the extent of fixing had given up on the sport long before taking that step.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

You took a lot of time to get the stats and present a proper case so I genuinely want to say kudos on that. Few few posters can do this on here and I for myself really appreciate it when someone makes the effort to make a rational argument.

I had checked all of these stats before I posted my first reply. It is very clear that he's been quite good for the last 3 years. If you look at my first post, I even said that this innings of 144 is the best ODI innings of the year so far.

Having said all that, you must understand that 3 good years does not automatically undo 9 below average years. Dimuth Karunatne of SL has been averaging 46 in tests in the last 2 years. Kraigg Brathwaite has been averaging 45, Dean Elgar - a 6-year career avg of 41. How much do reckon these people get rated?

Even Martin Guptill - a man who has been averaging close to 50 since 2013 - doesn't make it into the top 10.

And yet, Rainman claims he walks into any ODI team. That he is an Asian Top 5. And that he is "clearly better" than Shikhar Dhawan, a batsman who is the highest run scorer in ICC tournaments since 2013.

No. I'm sorry. It doesn't work that way. Greatness is earned of years and years of performance. Not by turning up for only 3-4 years in a 12-year long career. Smith and Williamson have been performing for the vast majority of their careers. Not for only 25% of it.

If Rahim can maintain his level for the remaining 4-5 years of his career, then a case can certainly be made about his greatness. But the overzealousness of [MENTION=146500]RainMan_[/MENTION] has taken over his ability to think intelligently, yet again.

Fair points.

I'm not saying that Rahim is on the same level as KW or Smith. I'm saying in the last 3 years, he's been on the same level (at least statistically) as KW or Smith. I agree if he can keep it up for 4-5 more years he should be regarded at or near their level.

As far as his 8 mediocre years goes, if he can be a top class player for 8 or 10 or 12 years thereafter I think those 8 years should be wiped away like people do with Jayasuriya.

But as far as Karunaratne, Brathwaite, and Elgar...I think they are rated more or less where they are supposed to be ie at a level below the likes of Kohli, Root, Smith, and Williamson. You can't ask for more than that.

 

[the_outsider]

As far as his 8 mediocre years goes, if he can be a top class player for 8 or 10 or 12 years thereafter I think those 8 years should be wiped away like people do with Jayasuriya.

Yes definitely. If he can keep this form for the next 5 years he will make a strong case for himself to be considered among top tier batsmen.

 

[RainMan_]

Tammi better than Gavaskar
Monimul better than Dravid
Shakib better than Kapil
Meihdy better than Ashwin and Bhajji

In another few years, someone from Bangladesh will become better than Sachin as well.

Ur sarcastic remark won't change the ground reality.

Tamim is definitely one of the best openers in Asia across all formats.

And yes, a genuine allrounder like Shakib who averages 40 with the bat and 30 with the ball is definitely better than someone like Kapil Dev in tests. Indian media can brag about kapil's achievements as much as they want but it won't change the fact that as an allrounder Kapil is inferior to shakib in tests.

 

[cricketindiafan]

Ur sarcastic remark won't change the ground reality.

Tamim is definitely one of the best openers in Asia across all formats.

And yes, a genuine allrounder like Shakib who averages 40 with the bat and 30 with the ball is definitely better than someone like Kapil Dev in tests. Indian media can brag about kapil's achievements as much as they want but it won't change the fact that as an allrounder Kapil is inferior to shakib in tests.

Of course, who is even disagreeing with you.

I'd even say at it's full strength(with Shabbir and Rubel), when they play to their potential (not play rash shots etc), when luck is with them this (unlike that no ball ), the current BD ODI team is most likely among the top 3 ODI sides ever in the world

 

[the_outsider]

Ur sarcastic remark won't change the ground reality.

Tamim is definitely one of the best openers in Asia across all formats.

And yes, a genuine allrounder like Shakib who averages 40 with the bat and 30 with the ball is definitely better than someone like Kapil Dev in tests. Indian media can brag about kapil's achievements as much as they want but it won't change the fact that as an allrounder Kapil is inferior to shakib in tests.

Bowling avg of 32. Not 30. There's no need to lie.

And you can think whatever you want. I can guarantee you that you won't find a single cricketer who thinks Shakib is better than Kapil. But go ahead and enjoy your fantasy world where Shakib is the greatest all rounder ever and Bangladesh is the best team in the world and 5 time WC winner.

 

[RainMan_]

Bowling avg of 32. Not 30. There's no need to lie.

And you can think whatever you want. I can guarantee you that you won't find a single cricketer who thinks Shakib is better than Kapil. But go ahead and enjoy your fantasy world where Shakib is the greatest all rounder ever and Bangladesh is the best team in the world and 5 time WC winner.

These so called experts always talk good about Indian cricket to remain on the good books of BCCI.

Remember when harsha bhogle was critical about India's performance while commenting in a match, players like Dhoni and others ran to BCCI and started crying about it? What was the end result? Yes, harsha was discarded from the commentary panel. No wonder few of these ex international cricketers love to praise present and past Indian cricketers to keep their lucrative JOB of an analyst in IPL.

Kapil wasn't even a proper allrounder. He was a sloger without a proper batting technique, someone like afridi in tests. A player who has a batting average of 31 and bowling average of 30 without a single double hundred even after playing 100s of tests shouldn't even be called as an allrounder leave alone an atg.

 

[cricketindiafan]

These so called experts always talk good about Indian cricket to remain on the good books of BCCI.

Remember when harsha bhogle was critical about India's performance while commenting in a match, players like Dhoni and others ran to BCCI and started crying about it? What was the end result? Yes, harsha was discarded from the commentary panel. No wonder few of these ex international cricketers love to praise present and past Indian cricketers to keep their lucrative JOB of an analyst in IPL.

Kapil wasn't even a proper allrounder. He was a sloger without a proper batting technique, someone like afridi in tests. A player who has a batting average of 31 and bowling average of 30 without a single double hundred even after playing 100s of tests shouldn't even be called as an allrounder leave alone an atg.

O bhai, already accepted he was a nobody. Forget Shakib, even Nassir Hossain is a better all rounder than Kapil.

Anything else you want me to agree on?

 

[the_outsider]

These so called experts always talk good about Indian cricket to remain on the good books of BCCI.

Then perhaps your time is better spent into thinking why everyone toes the line of BCCI and yet relishes in taking the ****** out on the Bangladeshi team

You keep your Shakibs and your Mushis. Built monuments for them. Declare public holidays on their birthdays. We will keep our world cup winning all rounder.

 

[RainMan_]

Mushy - 144

Dhoni - Duck

As I said earlier current Dhoni isn't in the league of Mushy.
[MENTION=45053]cricketindiafan[/MENTION] it's good to see that u have finally realised the truth here. Thanks fir ur understanding. There's no point in living in the Lala land.

 

[Napa]

The man's been playing for 12+ years but just because he's had a couple of good seasons he's all of a sudden in the top 5? How pathetic.

I would never want a player in my team who starts celebrating with 2 runs to get and 3 balls left. And then follows it up by tweeting that he is happy another team lost. Cost him millions of dollars in IPL contracts.

https://twitter.com/ipl/status/695838237617590273?lang=en

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Clutch knock by Mushfiqur. Is he the best WC batsman from the SC now?

 

[RainMan_]

Humble pies to some of my friends. Enjoy it brothers. Haha

 

[RainMan_]

He has once again proved why he's widely considered as one of the best middle order batters in the world.

 

[Executioner]

Definitely the best Wicket Keeper batsman from the SC and perhaps 2nd or 3rd best overall.