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Neil Wagner - No talent, one trick pony bowler

90MPH

90MPH

Test Debutant
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Runs
13,966
I don’t know how this guy has got so many Test wickets but he is a totally overrated bowler who only knows how to master short pitch bowling.

Too many batsman have no patience whatsoever or don’t duck enough against his short bowling. The idea is to frustrate him, not get frustrated by his one dimensional bowling.

Pak should not give him any wickets whatsoever but this is probably asking for too much as they are known to gift wickets to any mediocre bowler.
 
I was just thinking the same. Good to see Fawad, of all people, taking him on now.
 
90MPH said:
I don’t know how this guy has got so many Test wickets but he is a totally overrated bowler who only knows how to master short pitch bowling.

Too many batsman have no patience whatsoever or don’t duck enough against his short bowling. The idea is to frustrate him, not get frustrated by his one dimensional bowling.

Pak should not give him any wickets whatsoever but this is probably asking for too much as they are known to gift wickets to any mediocre bowler.
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So glad you posted this because I have never rated this guy.
Reminds a bit of Wahab only slower
 
Man you could have waited until we actually draw this Test before making this thread
 
He is a bit more intelligent version of Wahab Riaz. He is not pacy but at times bowls that annoying length. That he is not pacy is probably the reason batsmen take him on.

Misbah also used Wahab in the UAE for the same stuff. Probably the only time Wahab was useful in Tests.
 
He's been more successful than any Pakistan bowler since Waqar younus and any Indian bowler having 150+ wickets. Show some respect
 
Bowling short ball after ball, session after session is a rare skill. Also you dont get so many test wickets by being a one trick pony. He knows his strengths and how to use them.
 
He has a wicket taking rate of 4.3 wickets per game in 50 matches, that’s world class.

Sincerely hope this thread doesn’t bite back in this match let alone in the future
 
Rana said:
He has a wicket taking rate of 4.3 wickets per game in 50 matches, that’s world class.

Sincerely hope this thread doesn’t bite back in this match let alone in the future
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Our fans never learn. They don't show respect to very decent opposition players like wagner who is arguably among NZs great test bowlers
 
guys bowling with a fractured toe to get through overs till southee and boult take the new ball.

he gets so many wickets because boult and southee are the pitch up swing bowlers, he compliments them really well and does the job the others cant do.

hes a quality bowler, would love it if pak had a first change bowler as fit and tenacious as him.
 
Junaids impact evident here ... a guy taking 200+ wickets at 26/51 with 19 4/5for in 94 innings is doing something right, might not be talented or tall enough.....
 
He can take the other six wickets for all I care, still don't know what the fuss is and why so many batsmen get suckered into it...
 
hur rizvi said:
Our fans never learn. They don't show respect to very decent opposition players like wagner who is arguably among NZs great test bowlers
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That's just not true.
I show respect to all the opposition, I'll even give Bumrah the benefit of the doubt until his action is tested.
However, there are bowlers out there with more pace, more pace with accuracy, those with pace, accuracy and the ability to move the ball yet this guy gets so many wickets and takes the plaudits...
 
IMMY69 said:
That's just not true.
I show respect to all the opposition, I'll even give Bumrah the benefit of the doubt until his action is tested.
However, there are bowlers out there with more pace, more pace with accuracy, those with pace, accuracy and the ability to move the ball yet this guy gets so many wickets and takes the plaudits...
Click to expand...

I dont know you personally so it's a generic statement. So dont bother explaining your position to me
 
Very overrated when Pakistani batsmman are barely surviving vsing him bowling with 2 broken toes LOL.

look at his economy rate.


I'd like to see the likes of Amir etc bowling with 2 broken toes.
 
One-trick-ponies do not survive in Test cricket.

Wagner is a champion.
 
Neil Wagner got to 200 test wickets faster than any other left arm seamer. Including Wasim, Johnson and Starc.

The only left arm faster was Ravindra Jadeja.

Not bad for no talent.
 
Need super talents like Amir and Wahab to try and get their average below 30
 
No other bowler in world cricket has the ability to bowl long spells consisting almost entirely of accurate short pitched bowling. Wagner is a very good bowler
 
Wagner would be the leading bowler in a few test sides & make the team in a few more.

Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Zimbabwe= Wagner is your best seamer.

He makes the West Indies team pretty comfortably too, perhaps India- he's better than Yadav.

Only misses out from Oz & probably England & SA.
 
wrongun said:
Wagner would be the leading bowler in a few test sides & make the team in a few more.

Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Zimbabwe= Wagner is your best seamer.

He makes the West Indies team pretty comfortably too, perhaps India- he's better than Yadav.

Only misses out from Oz & probably England & SA.
Click to expand...

Lol how does he maybe make it into the WI? And he walks into SA if they want to pick a white pacer and he is better than Archer as the 3rd seamer of England
 
Rana said:
Lol how does he maybe make it into the WI? And he walks into SA if they want to pick a white pacer and he is better than Archer as the 3rd seamer of England
Click to expand...

Name me a WI quick with better claims to the 3rd seamer role than Wagner?

Roach, Gabriel... then we have a drop off a cliff to poor quality bowlers who flatter to deceive but never achieve.

Wagner is better than Archer? Ok. Interesting opinion. Wrong. But thanks for sharing.
 
His talent is being able to consistently be a miserable bugger. Definitely world class at that.
 
wrongun said:
Name me a WI quick with better claims to the 3rd seamer role than Wagner?

Roach, Gabriel... then we have a drop off a cliff to poor quality bowlers who flatter to deceive but never achieve.

Wagner is better than Archer? Ok. Interesting opinion. Wrong. But thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...

You misunderstood me. He 100% gets into WI as there best bowler

Also what has Archer done in his brief career to be a better ‘enforcer’ for England in comparison to Wagner who has an ATG per match wicket taking rate?
 
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wrongun said:
Wagner would be the leading bowler in a few test sides & make the team in a few more.

Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Zimbabwe= Wagner is your best seamer.

He makes the West Indies team pretty comfortably too, perhaps India- he's better than Yadav.

Only misses out from Oz & probably England & SA.
Click to expand...

Yadav isn’t India’s 3rd first choice pacer. Wagner will have to be better than Shami to get into the Indian team.
 
Rana said:
You misunderstood me. He 100% gets into WI as there best bowler

Also what has Archer done in his brief career to be a better ‘enforcer’ for England in comparison to Wagner who has an ATG per match wicket taking rate?
Click to expand...

Aah ok. I said Wagner walks into the WI team easily & then PROBABLY India too.

I think Archer is better. Archer has done Smith- not many others can. I feel Archer is also more penetrative, whereas Wagner is a bit of a late wickets, 5/130 man. Wagners role is perfect for NZ where SOuthee & Boult do all the new ball work so the late innings bouncer man role is just for him. I think Archer can be more than that and if I have the choice between both for my team, I;d choose Archer.

Wagner STRIKES just as I type.
 
BreadPakoda said:
Yadav isn’t India’s 3rd first choice pacer. Wagner will have to be better than Shami to get into the Indian team.
Click to expand...

I realise that, but Yadav has played quite a few games the last few years, so would Wagner then.
 
But why respect a bowler less if his "one trick" is a bouncer than the one trick pony who's trick is the outswinger pitched up...
 
CricketZ said:
Still gets the results tho.. Way better than "see the fear in batsmen's eyes" type of bowlers.
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Yup. I was just saying that wicket actually supports OP's claim.

Wagner doesn't have much talent and relies on the batsmens impatience. Bodyline short pitched bowling at 125 kph is hardly a world class talent, but yes it gets the job done (only on helpful conditions though)
 
The man has character and heart. Bowling his heart out for his country with two broken toes
 
The one tricky pony is riding high.. without seeing fear in the eyes of the batsman. He has the tricks to take wickets.. that is all you need
 
Faheem plays the the sucker ball.

More subtle mental game from Wagner than people realise. Hypnotised by the relentless armpit balls, batsmen always chase his sucker ball.
 
Wagner could in the early 140's a few years ago. Also he bangs it into the pitch and bowls a lot of short of length deliveries hence dorsnt register a lot on the speed gun. Also, hes nearly 35. Loss of pace is natural.
 
Wagner, Jadeja and that chotu party spoiler from England are the guys whom people can make fun as much as they want but reality is they will keep proving you wrong time and again. Be wary of them.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Wagner could in the early 140's a few years ago. Also he bangs it into the pitch and bowls a lot of short of length deliveries hence dorsnt register a lot on the speed gun. Also, hes nearly 35. Loss of pace is natural.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Wagner used to be a 135-140k bowler. Has slowed down a bit (although I’m sure the 2 broken toes he was bowling on in this game didn’t help).

NZ fans used to feel the same way about Wagner as the OP. I remember we used to curse how he kept getting “lucky” wickets and thus kept other bowlers like Doug Bracewell and Matt Henry out of the side. But we eventually learned that Wagner’s talents are subtle but rare and invaluable: stamina, accuracy, intelligence and determination. He’s not for everyone, I get why some people might think he’s boring but he’s undeniably one of the best bowlers in the world these days. I remember looking at his stats since 2015 and its something like 150 wickets at 23 apiece.
 
Ab Fan said:
Wagner, Jadeja and that chotu party spoiler from England are the guys whom people can make fun as much as they want but reality is they will keep proving you wrong time and again. Be wary of them.
Click to expand...

Jadeja is god damn all time great.
 
This one trick pony has been the reason why we could not achieve what all teams struggle to do in the modern era, a result in New Zealand that favours the opposition.
 
For those you naturally wondering how a 125-140 km bowler can keep trolling Test wickets with short-balls, here is the explanation from Aussie Matthew Wade to why Wagner is so tough. He took 17 wickets in the 3 tests in Aust last year at ab average of 22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgEFiXOwkok
 
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Pakistan could do with some 'one-trick ponies' in our team.

At least this guy has one trick, many of our players currently playing don't even have one trick.
 
He has a lot of character, in test match cricket this can get you far. But he does have skills, he has shown and his record is decent. This is a guy who was troubling Steve Smith.
 
Like Abbas, quite a specific skill set, which he’s mastered - good option considering he is probably their 5th seam option at full strength.

NZ must have some system given Boult Jamieson Lockie Southee Wagner - the first 3 especially looks a dangerous trio.
 
Fast bowler Neil Wagner was hailed as an "inspiration" on Wednesday after he shrugged off the pain of two broken toes to help bowl New Zealand to victory in the first Test. A Shaheen Afridi yorker fractured two toes in Wagner's right foot during New Zealand's first innings but, surviving on painkilling injections and grit, he bowled 21 overs in Pakistan's first innings and 28 in the second for a match haul of four wickets. Wagner crucially removed Fawad Alam for 102 during a marathon 11-over spell late on the fifth day to snuff out Pakistan's hopes of a surprise victory. New Zealand eventually won by 101 runs, 27 balls from the close.

New Zealand captain Kane Williamson said it was an incredible performance, although Wagner's heart was well known within the team.

Pakistan skipper Mohammad Rizwan said: "I just told him he's mad. He's a different guy. His attitude is everything, his aggression is very beautiful."

Pakistan batsman Azhar Ali also said he had "huge respect" for Wagner. "I said that to him -- that's what it means to play for your nation," Azhar said.

"I think he's showing that and he's an inspiration, everyone knows he's got not one, but two, broken toes and he's fighting for his team.

"He was giving 100 percent and maybe more than that, so I have a huge respect for him."

Williamson said trying to get the most out of Wagner before the painkillers wore off was a unique situation.

"People talk about the size of his heart in terms of what he (normally) does on the cricket field but to have a couple of broken toes, and he's in a lot of pain and going off to get injections and numbing his foot, and we're trying to use him," Williamson said.

"It was very, very special from 'Wags', one the team appreciated. We needed him out there and he delivered."

https://sports.ndtv.com/cricket/new...an-test-2345591?pfrom=sports_morelisting_2020
 
Batsmen often misjudge Neil Wagner upon meeting him for the first time. It looks like he is bowling fast but he doesn't. Most of his deliveries are around 128 kph to 135 kph. He is not that fast, and that's what happens when people try to pull him, they mistime the shot and glove it.

He also has a slingy action and has perfected the area to bowl the bouncer. What batsmen ought to do against Wagner is let him bowl short at them and just duck. After a while, he will just not be making any impact and will be forced to change what he is doing. We were on the verge of doing that before we let him take the wicket of Fawad. If we had held out for longer, he would not have bowled short anymore because the match was heading towards a draw, and the bowling had to take wickets, not just give a free pass to the batsmen.

When the time is right to score runs against Wagner, the tactic should be to step sideways towards the off stump and use the wrists to get the pull shot away instead of the whole arm. That way, there's more accuracy and less chance of gloving it. The other option is to step out and take out some height from the delivery making it easier to place the ball into the gaps.
 
Yet again Wagner made the difference in the end. Fawad's wicket was crucial.

Our posters yet again too early to judge.
 
It took me a while to warm to his bowling.

But I have grown to appreciate what he does and brings to his team. I do think he has added a bit to his bowling recently which is natural with experience, certainly pitches it up a bit more regularly.

Got to hand it to him for his efforts while injured in this game, made the difference between us drawing and losing.
 
Space Cat said:
Neil Wagner got to 200 test wickets faster than any other left arm seamer. Including Wasim, Johnson and Starc.

The only left arm faster was Ravindra Jadeja.

Not bad for no talent.
Click to expand...

Wasim only got 72 wickets in his first 25 tests
Don't think he would have been picked again if he played in the modern era
 
This guy is so good and accurate at his one trick though. He will bowl 15 overs on the trot of bouncers, with 10 broken toes, until you finally succumb and make just one mistake, go for just one pull.

Pakistan were cruising at Tea. NZ had to get 6 wickets in one session. Wagner comes onto the field with 2 broken toes and bowls and bowls until he gets his wicket, and it was the most important wicket of them all. The game was done as soon as Fawad gloved it.

"One trick pony" wins yet another game for his side, takes them to #1 in the rankings
 
Am really surprised Pak fans, of all people are making fun of Wagner.

You all were saying that Pak should include Fawad alam, with his ugly technique, Wagner is like his bowling equivalent.. Doesn't look great but gets the job done...

Stats over a long period don't lie, 200 plus wickets at that SR / Avg for a third seamer is bloody good, same for Fawad, a 100 on last day while saving the match is awesome..

So welcome the ugly guys, they have a mongrel in them, and usually are good team players...
 
Saj said:
Pakistan could do with some 'one-trick ponies' in our team.

At least this guy has one trick, many of our players currently playing don't even have one trick.
Click to expand...

You are underestimating Yasir Shah bro. His one trick of not spinning the ball is easily the most consistent
 
More talented than all current Pakistani pacers except perhaps Shaheen.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Despite two broken toes, Neil Wagner played a key role in New Zealand's dramatic victory over Pakistan, claiming four wickets &#55357;&#56490; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NZvPAK?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NZvPAK</a> <a href="https://t.co/zMZvFIX6E4">pic.twitter.com/zMZvFIX6E4</a></p>— ICC (@ICC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ICC/status/1344426040836435969?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 30, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
At one stage, the Black Caps star had to bite a towel as he screamed while getting injections to numb the pain of bowling with two broken toes.

While it means he's now out of cricket for up to six weeks, he's already got his next goal firmly in mind.

It isn't exactly the start to the new year Wagner envisaged, at home in Tauranga while his teammates prepare for their last test of the summer in Christchurch.

"I've got a bit of FOMO," he told 1 NEWS.

His 'fear of missing out' comes even after the two broken toes that've added to his lion-hearted legend.

Wagner ran in regardless again and again, 49 overs in all.

"On the last day I couldn't walk getting out of bed," he says.

"I sort of fell to the ground quite frustrated and quite angry, and just wanted to get out there and play.

"And as I tried to walk, the pain got worse and worse, and I got the frozen veges out of the fridge and a couple of icebags and tried to ice it a couple of times."

The 34-year-old turned to prayer and painful injections.

"About the 12th injection on the day, I started screaming and squealing a bit and biting on the towel," he says.

"The injections helped for about two hours then you got to try and bite your teeth, grit and go through it."

And running in to bowl, he had one message drumming through his head.

"Just get one wicket," Wagner laughs.

"That's all. I kept walking back to my mark saying to myself, 'Just one wicket, just one wicket.'"

Wagner is shrugging off the plaudits that've rolled in since, an attitude that's both remarkable and yet entirely unsurprising.

"The burning desire to help the team is just there, you know, and it sort of gets you through it."

Help he did, with a couple of crucial wickets on day five as the Black Caps recorded a victory to savour.

"I had massive relief to be honest, I was just like, 'Oh thank goodness, it's all worth it.'"

It was worth the pain and worth having to spend much of summer at a more sedate pace.

Wagner is now hoping to return to international duties for a test championship final at Lord's.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/spo...-during-incredible-test-victory-over-pakistan
 
90MPH said:
I don’t know how this guy has got so many Test wickets but he is a totally overrated bowler who only knows how to master short pitch bowling.

Too many batsman have no patience whatsoever or don’t duck enough against his short bowling. The idea is to frustrate him, not get frustrated by his one dimensional bowling.

Pak should not give him any wickets whatsoever but this is probably asking for too much as they are known to gift wickets to any mediocre bowler.
Click to expand...

You don't have to be talented to make it in test cricket. You need guts, grit and character to make it in this format. And Wagner has that in spades. More than most cricketers in the world, I might add.


Having talent is absolutely meaningless when you can't translate that talent into credible performances. Players are remembered for what they did, not what they could have done.

Also, the guy is the number 2 Test bowler in the world. Calling him mediocre is more than a stretch.
 
He is bowling gun barrel straight, no swing and seam.
Very predictable, probably he is the weakest link in current Nz set up.

He'd be a better in Australia and SA conditions.
 
King_Kohli said:
He is bowling gun barrel straight, no swing and seam.
Very predictable, probably he is the weakest link in current Nz set up.

He'd be a better in Australia and SA conditions.
Click to expand...

He’s basically archer but with a better attitude/ better fitness and more selfless.
 
Reckon he's New Zealand's most important bowler on days like today when the opposition needs to be ruffled with a few short deliveries and/or bounced out.
 
In terms of effort, I don't think there are too many out there who try as hard as Wagner.

Gives 100% every ball.
 
King_Kohli said:
He is bowling gun barrel straight, no swing and seam.
Very predictable, probably he is the weakest link in current Nz set up.

He'd be a better in Australia and SA conditions.
Click to expand...

He is getting plenty of swing today.
 
He is a very very good bowler irrespective of the condition. NZ's weak link is Santner and de Grandhomme.
 
Bowled a beautiful line and length today with some good inswing. If you think hes a one trick pony you just dont watch enough of his bowling.
 
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