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New Bat-Off (Legend vs Vindico vs TRD vs Bubber Sher)

Hammermellet

Hammermellet

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Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Runs
183
just to let you guys know i am currently working on a bat off between some new bats. GN legend, Vindico geronimo, Malik bubber sher and CA trd.

Watch this space for updates!

enjoy.
 
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Great work mate! Interesting to see your take on the GM players using a similar rating system
 
Interesting.
Although id probably argue PING should be worth more, or have more value than alot of other options.
 
Player GM bats will get low score on the price scale. Way over priced for the average joe. Will s ore high on the others though. I have a video up already of the Graeme smith Luna and the John trott icon. Check YouTube.
 
Very good blog Jason

The only thing I would consider though is that maybe you could have used all four bats at more or less the same weight. Its especially important when it comes to testing the ping. Heavier bats would have better ping than a bat that is much lighter. I think that's why the Vindico bat had better ping than all the others.
 
Interesting little venture there Hammer. Here are some points which I thought might be relevant:

First, thanks for taking the pains to do this.

2) This is really interesting for the majority of the buyers when it comes to spending money to buy expensive bats.

3) I specially liked the 'value' aspect of this bat-off--it is something that me as a buyer have always taken a special interest in. My philosophy has been that if I can get the same performance out of a bat which will cost me 200 dollars why would I spend double the amount on something that simply looks better.

4) Judging from my previous statement I guess it is obvious that the value aspect of a cricket bat comes down to mainly the performance part in relation to the money paid, as far as I am concerned. Then again it might differ from the opinions of others and that is only natural.

5) As some of the forum members had already pointed out, one of the major problem in this is the fact that the bats are not all of the same weight; now same weight means that the pick up cannot be judged properly in accordance with each other. So if one looks at the pictures in the link, one can see that the Vindico bat has a bigger profile than the others but then again it is much, much heavier. So if someone is seeking a big profile in a lightweight bat, the Vindico bat will not hold enough value for him. In fact if we look at the TRD for example, value per profile-wise it should be the best of the lot.

6) While the looks and price can be judged easily the pick-up and feel and more importantly the performance factor might be more difficult to judge. To an opener the Bubber Sher might not have the same feel as to a slogger or big hitter. But then again, it is impossible to ascertain all these through a blog or a video and I do emphasize the point that most of us are really grateful for the effort you put in your videos. They do convey some of the more important points that buyers are looking for specially if you take into consideration that they will not get to hold the bats in their hands in person before they are buying them. So that way, they are as informative as anything like this can be.

Now comes the second and more important part of this judgement-- the performance factor. It is really, really difficult to infer the performance without actually using the bats in the nets or in the middle. Some bats might not ping from the get-go; our own CD's legendary Powerbow 3 star is an example. He is so enamored by it that it is still one his favorite, if not the favorite among even all his high end bats. Yet it did not open up immediately; it took him a season to fall in love with it.
Also, if you like to cut and pull the ball more than drive it, the higher sweet spot of a particular bat might be more important than the performance of the toe. But if you like to drive the ball more you might want to have one with a lower sweet spot. So how do you measure the ping by bouncing an old ball on the bat? If you bounce it near the lower part of the blade it might be disappointing in some bats while in others it will fly off. You did something very insightful with the review of the Epic and the Halo where you do talk about at length about the different profile and then compare the bounce on each bat depending on where you are bouncing the ball; that to me was the most impressive of all videos you have ever done, and you have done some very good ones indeed.
So my suggestion is, in future you might want to discuss this on the blog review. I know that you do talk about the location of the sweetspot in the video and it does a fabulous job to complement the literature part of the bat-off.

Again, I am really serious when I share my views about all this by saying a big thank you to you for the effort you have shown here and elsewhere; while something like this cannot be fullproof and will have its colony of detractors, it does help the regular buyer out immensely.

Maybe you can simply re-write the performance part as 'ping of an old ball' or something like that.

As regards to the bat-- all of them look delectable; but the Vindico for its price and weight is easily the least eye catching of the lot. It does have a big profile but if the TRD weighed 2.14 it would have simply shrugged the Vindico off.

Again, all these are my opinions and might differ from what others might be thinking.
 
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No problem kaustav. Never said I was the best reviewer but I love doing it. I tend to rush through it sometimes and try to get it done and get the information live sometimes. That's why I keep my individual by videos short and to the point. Otherwise I will go on for 30 minutes about 1 bat. Short and to the point is the way I like it. And sometimes info does get left out. I have got a little cheat sheet for my bat reviews now do I cover all the important points.

Thx anyway.
 
Hammermellet said:
No problem kaustav. Never said I was the best reviewer but I love doing it. I tend to rush through it sometimes and try to get it done and get the information live sometimes. That's why I keep my individual by videos short and to the point. Otherwise I will go on for 30 minutes about 1 bat. Short and to the point is the way I like it. And sometimes info does get left out. I have got a little cheat sheet for my bat reviews now do I cover all the important points.

Thx anyway.
Click to expand...

No man, like I said your video reviews are the best in the market and thanks a ton for all the hard work. I am sure 90% of the buyers are influenced by this hard work including me. Keep it up dude. And anyone who has been to your facebook wall would know the crap questions you have to keep answering all the time. But I must say I was really impressed by the moisture rating of CA; expected it to be a little less.

Also, are you serious that the SS Matrix had a moisture content of 2%?? Amazing :))

That is a slap in the face of everyone who keeps saying that Pakistani bats are drier.
 
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Thanks bro.

Not the ss matrix. The mattrixx zouk pro.

If you think the FB page is painful to read sometimes, you should read the emails I get.


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First of all, cheers for doing this :).

I was a bit of surprised when I saw 9% for CA to be honest, I have heard lots of people say CA are totally over dried but I guess that is not entirely true.

Do you mind checking moisture level of other CA bats you have?

Apparently Gray Nicolls say that Gray Nicolls Legend clefts are top 1% ones so by seeing how amazing CA clefts look like I believe CA too get awesome clefts!

I don't know who told me but I think it was Asad Bhai and they said that CA's MD would come every year to UK to select clefts so I guess that make CA get top clefts.

CA can become world's leading brand if they work on stickers and handles.
 
Cover Drive said:
First of all, cheers for doing this :).

I was a bit of surprised when I saw 9% for CA to be honest, I have heard lots of people say CA are totally over dried but I guess that is not entirely true.

Do you mind checking moisture level of other CA bats you have?

Apparently Gray Nicolls say that Gray Nicolls Legend clefts are top 1% ones so by seeing how amazing CA clefts look like I believe CA too get awesome clefts!

I don't know who told me but I think it was Asad Bhai and they said that CA's MD would come every year to UK to select clefts so I guess that make CA get top clefts.

CA can become world's leading brand if they work on stickers and handles.
Click to expand...

Yep, the handles are the Achilles heel of Pakistani bats. The Bubber Sher's reading however was not a surprise.

Cover Drive said:
Jason have you by any chance ever checked moisture level of any SS or SG bat?
Click to expand...

I think SS and SG should have better moisture level than the Zouk and the Bubber Sher.

Having said that I am more interested in a moisture level bat off between

a) Bubber Sher L.E and TRD (both being top clefts)
b) Bubber Sher and CA 10000 (at par clefts)
 
zeusky said:
Yep, the handles are the Achilles heel of Pakistani bats. The Bubber Sher's reading however was not a surprise.
Click to expand...

The handles are really not as bad we think, tell me how many CA or MB breakages have you seen?

In my life I have seen one handle break and that was SS Matrix (mid-range bat).

If you see MB Malik LE handles they are quite better than Bubber Sher handles.

zeusky said:
I think SS and SG should have better moisture level than the Zouk and the Bubber Sher.

Having said that I am more interested in a moisture level bat off between

a) Bubber Sher L.E and TRD (both being top clefts)
b) Bubber Sher and CA 10000 (at par clefts)
Click to expand...

Not sure about SS and SG but from what I heard is that in Pakistan for CA, MB etc clefts are not kept in controlled temperature, hence, due to extreme hot conditions the clefts dry out.

Not too sure how deep the reader goes but MB bats have a waxing coating on the bats which does not penetrate oil so not sure if that affects moisture reading.

Yes, it would be interested to see moisture level of them.
 
The weather point is a very valid one CD. People tend to ignore that; I don't want to name names but a few weeks back a couple of folks had opined that the majority of the Pakistani manufacturers use kiln to dry their bats. I of course did not believe it.

My own Reebok-ka (made in Pakistan) handle went for a swing--so I have that in my memory but that of course cannot be emblematic of all bats.

Yes, you might have raised a valid concern about the coating on the Bubber sher; totally forgot about that.
 
Not having a go at you or your source but mate that is nearly impossible to believe that a bat is being over dried in kiln, drying cupboard sounds more realistic.

But again how much was that bat for? Rs. 3000?
 
Cover Drive said:
Not having a go at you or your source but mate that is nearly impossible to believe that a bat is being over dried in kiln, drying cupboard sounds more realistic.

But again how much was that bat for? Rs. 3000?
Click to expand...

I know man; that is why I dismissed it myself. Kiln is just too much.

No it was Reebok Skipper---which was at that time top of the range.

I think value wise South Asian bats are better than English bats, again value-wise.
 
zeusky said:
I know man; that is why I dismissed it myself. Kiln is just too much.

No it was Reebok Skipper---which was at that time top of the range.

I think value wise South Asian bats are better than English bats, again value-wise.
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Ah okay, I always thought Reebok bats were Indian made.

Yaar many English brands bats are made in Pakistan-India such as Gray Nicolls (made other places too), Slazenger, Adidas, Reebok, Kookaburra, Mongoose, Puma etc

So it is not that Asian bats are not as good as English brand bats, they certainly are if not better (in some cases and for some bats).
 
I think the Reeboks used to be made in Pakistan previously; It was a few years back. I remember on the cellophane wrapper it said Made in Pakistan. But now they are being made in India. I think Tom might be able to shed more light on this.

I believe the TRDs are some of the best looking bats I have seen. Remember JohnG's CAs?
 
zeusky said:
I think the Reeboks used to be made in Pakistan previously; It was a few years back. I remember on the cellophane wrapper it said Made in Pakistan. But now they are being made in India. I think Tom might be able to shed more light on this.

I believe the TRDs are some of the best looking bats I have seen. Remember JohnG's CAs?
Click to expand...

Ah okay, I got into equipment really a year ago so don't know much of history lol :))

Definitely Tom is the man :D

Indeed, mate they are amazing! I remember my friend got a stunning TRD as well, will see if I can find a picture of it.
 
Here it is;

IMG-20110109-00022.jpg


IMG-20110109-00021.jpg
 
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I don't know how they get these straight grains; actually this one has much less grains than some of the other TRDs I have seen. Stunning bats really.
 
zeusky said:
I don't know how they get these straight grains; actually this one has much less grains than some of the other TRDs I have seen. Stunning bats really.
Click to expand...

Yes, it doesn't have as many grains but they look a lot better in real life.

Indeed, I wonder how they manage to get beauties like this!
 
Half of your tests are for looks, who cares if the bat has massive "bender" stickers on it, if it plays like a cannon that is all that matters.

Then you rolled the 2 most important factors into one. Ping and Pickup are the 2 most important attributes of a bat. Without either the bat is a dud.

I will say I find your research on the moisture content very interesting, seeing as the Malik is the smallest edges, high weight and lowest moisture content. Did you try oiling the bats waiting then re-checking the moisture content?
 
Cover Drive said:
I believe if Newbery got those clefts it would have been Cenkos :))
Click to expand...

I would agree with that. Laver would make them signatures. GN would make them legends, kookaburra would make them players bats, GM would make the LE or players bats.

They a really are incredible.


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bigfan said:
Half of your tests are for looks, who cares if the bat has massive "bender" stickers on it, if it plays like a cannon that is all that matters.

Then you rolled the 2 most important factors into one. Ping and Pickup are the 2 most important attributes of a bat. Without either the bat is a dud.

I will say I find your research on the moisture content very interesting, seeing as the Malik is the smallest edges, high weight and lowest moisture content. Did you try oiling the bats waiting then re-checking the moisture content?
Click to expand...

Hey big fan, I know you are not a " big fan " of mine and that's really ok. I'm not in it to make friends. Thanks for the " positive " comment though about the " interesting " moisture content. I didn't oil the bat as technically it's not "my " bat. I need to sell it on to customers at the end of the day so I don't mess with them. If they were my bats I will for sure be doing the test in the nets or in the middle. But as for now I do the test as is.

I think looks are important but agree with you, they are not the most important thing. Performance is at the end of the day the most important thing. As I realistically cannot test the performance of every bat I chose not to make it a huge factor in the test as every cleft is different.

I would hat to tell people that bats will perform according to my scale and then they get them and they don't. Also performance is subject to the user as well and I tried to base the scale on things that most people would agree with as they are cold hard facts, like grains, willow quality, etc. something that's more tangible than ping or performance. One mans awesome ping is another mans screeching nails down a school blackboard.

Thanks for stopping by though.

New test coming in a few weeks is Lekka RDX vs Lekka RDX big hitter, vs crictech custom made ( custom made for me to my specs ) vs Zafar Asim custom made vs Vindico genghis players plus. These bats will officially all be " mine " so the test will be in the nets against a bowling machine as well as on this same rating scale.

I also just heard Orlando baker and jignesh desai are both using Zafar Asim bats. Both are local Dallas folk and play for the USA national team and whilst the Zafar bat was not custom made for me ( I just asked him for one and two weeks later there was one in the mail. ) is still looks like a belter. It's 2.10 but balance was a bit off. I added an extra grip and seems like the balance has been sorted out.

Exciting things to come. Might also throw in a small review of the infamous kookaburra twins later today.




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why some people think the CA TRD is dry.

and im sure thats not entirely wrong. maybe i got lucky on te test with this one and will try a few other sometime soon.

new SG gear is coming in a few weeks. sure to test those and yes there will be some ss tests as well.
 

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Hammermellet said:
why some people think the CA TRD is dry.

and im sure thats not entirely wrong. maybe i got lucky on te test with this one and will try a few other sometime soon.

new SG gear is coming in a few weeks. sure to test those and yes there will be some ss tests as well.
Click to expand...

If its not very inconvenient for you then maybe you can check moisture level of other CA bats that you have?

Thanks for testing out SG when they come.
 
Yeah, there will be some more ca tests soon. Will be doing the 5000, 8000, 10 000 and normal 12 000 as well.


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Hammermellet said:
Yeah, there will be some more ca tests soon. Will be doing the 5000, 8000, 10 000 and normal 12 000 as well.


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Click to expand...

Awesome mate! Some good reviews coming (CA ones and other you mentioned above) :D

I'm all excited for them :D
 
Hammermellet said:
Hey big fan, I know you are not a

I also just heard Orlando baker and jignesh desai are both using Zafar Asim bats. Both are local Dallas folk and play for the USA national team and whilst the Zafar bat was not custom made for me ( I just asked him for one and two weeks later there was one in the mail. ) is still looks like a belter. It's 2.10 but balance was a bit off. I added an extra grip and seems like the balance has been sorted out.

Exciting things to come. Might also throw in a small review of the infamous kookaburra twins later today.


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Click to expand...

So Zafar is making the PGB bats; totally forgot about that.
 
No, from what I've just heard they were playing a game in LA this summer and were introduced to Zafar, they liked his bats so much they ordered themselves some. I don't think the PGB bats are his. Actually I have no idea where the PGB bats come from. So maybe you can fill us in on that oh jedi master.


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I was under the impression that SG makes their softs and bats; hence was surprised to see Zafar's name in all these.
 
How about this one?
 

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That's good enough.

I don't think they are made by SG maybe smaller ones maybe BAS, BDM etc
 
Cover Drive said:
That's good enough.

I don't think they are made by SG maybe smaller ones maybe BAS, BDM etc
Click to expand...

Definitely not BDM; BAS perhaps but surely made in India. I think either BAS or SG is their connection. I have never used any of their stuff but a few months back someone fleetingly told me that they are 'perhaps made by SG'; that's why I was thinking more in terms of SG. Might find it out for real and let you know.
 
Our friends at Vindico tried to get their softs made at SG and SS and were told their orders weren't big enough to even look at. If PGB is getting it at SG then they must be doing some numbers.
 
Huh?

There are loads of small companies whose softs are made by SS like Hell4Leather, Instinct etc

I'm sure there orders are not big enough.
 
Well I think they were talking about 10 pairs at a time. I know as well SS told them if they don't do 1000 bats at a time they wouldn't be interested.


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1000 bats might be a bit too much---trust me it is just too big a number; either way it is quite interesting to know that.
 
Well I know for a fact one bat brand just ordered 1000 bats from Keeley. I'm not at liberty to say who but that was the amount mentioned. So 1000 would not be a stretch for a minimum order size from SS.
 
Hey Hammer, if time permits could you do a PakPassion exclusive review of some of the bats in your kit--the Flare for example? I am sure we will be interested to know your choice among the many candies you have at your disposal.
 
Hammermellet said:
Well I know for a fact one bat brand just ordered 1000 bats from Keeley. I'm not at liberty to say who but that was the amount mentioned. So 1000 would not be a stretch for a minimum order size from SS.
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1000 is too much and thats not true.

Keeley can make bats on order from as little as four to hundreds to thousands.
 
I know keeley can do less, so hopefully he will make some for me next year. This is once again just numbers that have been mentioned to me in conversation. Not direct from the horses mouth as per usual.


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The 1000 ordered from keeley was just the order amount, not the minimum order from keeley.


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Hammermellet said:
I know keeley can do less, so hopefully he will make some for me next year. This is once again just numbers that have been mentioned to me in conversation. Not direct from the horses mouth as per usual.


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So you are starting the Hammer brand? Good luck mate; in between all these, you dodged my request to review your bats :pissed:
 
Sorry, wasnt dodging anything... Sure I will chat about what I have in my bag.after next week though that bag will increase in size dramatically as some shipments are coming in with gear people want me to review. It might be hard to pick just a few bats out of the 6 I will own by the end of next week.


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Yeah, gonna be an interesting few weeks deciding which bat / bats to use next season. Sure the Lekka RDX big hitter will make the list as its the only 20/20 bat I will own.


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