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Noam Chomsky: Regrets Pakistan’s drifting away from science

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Professor Noam Chomsky, world-renowned philosopher, linguist and cognitive scientist, has lamented Pakistan's drifting away from science and said it has now "virtually disappeared" from the country's educational system.

"Pakistan used an advanced scientific establishment, Nobel Prize laureates and so on. Now science has virtually disappeared from the education system."

Chomsky warned that the country will have no future if it lives in a world of religious superstition.

"Serious scientists who have been trying to preserve a rational educational system, which deals with the reality of the world. Pakistan has no future if it's going to live in a world of religious superstition," said the philosopher.

In reference to India, he said Prime Minister Narendra Modi is destroying the remnants of a secular democracy, crushing Muslim rights and placing Kashmir under a vicious brutal rule, Prof Noam Chomsky, one of the greatest intellectuals of our times, said on Monday.

India, according to the world’s leading academic, is a natural member of the “reactionary international” a phenomenon which has grown during US President Donald Trump’s rule and is led by the White House.

“It is not formalised but it is taking shape with Trump in the White House and is led by the White House. It includes the most reactionary states in the world, the ones most bitterly attacking and destroying democracy,” Chomsky said, speaking at the 6th Yohsin Lecture at the Habib University.

Chomsky warned that the world at the moment is at confluence of four severe crises. “The first, of course, is the threat of nuclear war which in fact is growing according to some senior analysts, like William Perry. It is greater than it has ever been in the past 75 years,” he said.

He implied that a nuclear war between Pakistan and India is also possible and warned that any nuclear war among powers of any significance like the two neighbours will be essentially terminal.

“The effects on the country that strikes first will be lethal. The effects on the rest of the world will also be lethal, if only from a nuclear winter which is likely to result from a major nuclear strike.”

The second crisis, he said, is the threat of environmental catastrophe, which, he described as severe and increasing and will likely to reach an irreversible tipping point if not dealt with soon. “It is just a matter of waiting not very long till organised human society becomes impossible.”

He said one of the first regions to suffer severely from the ongoing catastrophe is South Asia. “It is already in a severe environmental crisis with drought, shortage of water, glaciers melting, sources of main rivers declining and if matter continues on its present course, it will literally not be habitable by humans within not very long.”

Chomsky said the third major crisis is the deterioration of democracy worldwide.

“At first it doesn’t sound that it belongs to the level of other two but it actually does. And the reason is that unless there is an engaged informed public committed to dealing with the crises that we face there is no chance of dealing with them.

“Autocrats and demagogues will not do it. It has to be engaged, informed public in a vibrant democracy [to address these crises],” he added.

Enumerating the reasons for the decline of democracy, he said there has been a sharp shift to the right as a result of “the neo-liberal plague” which placed the business world in power to an unusual extent.

“This happens all over. It has become a plague. We have learned a little about it from leaks like the Panama Papers which show it is just colossal in scale and there have been other similar means,” he said.

“So, there has been an enormous robbery of the general public. It is not going to the 10%. Most of it is going to top 0.1% – a tiny fraction of the population, which has doubled their share of wealth in the last 40 years.”

He said this had had a very harmful effect on the functioning of democracy. “That is why the centralist political parties have collapsed. That is why they are getting demagogues like [Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor] Orban, [French National Rally party chief Marine] Le Pen, [former Italian deputy prime minister Matteo] Salvini, [former UK Independence Party leader Nigel] Farage and others.

“These are the results of 40 years of assault on the public. Now it is reaching an extreme form with the growth of reactionary international run by harsh and brutal autocrats,” he added.

According to Chomsky, the fourth major crisis is coronavirus pandemic.

“The world is suffering from it severely but in fact, it is least of the four crises. Severe though it is, and dominant though at the moment, we [US] will emerge from the pandemic at a terrible cost and needless cost. We can see that it is needless cost by the fact that some countries have dealt with it.”

US elections

Chomsky said that the Democrats’ victory in last month’s US election was a hollow victory as the Republicans will make the affairs ungovernable for president-elect Joe Biden.

“The Republican won the election at every level from state legislatures up to Congress; the only office they didn’t win was the presidency. That was just the hatred of Trump, not love of Biden.”

He said the signs suggest that President Trump will never concede that he lost the election. He will presumably leave office on January 20, the day of inauguration without conceding.

“The legal manoeuvrings that are taking place now are ridiculed by the liberals and the world because they are so ludicrous but they are missing the point. They are very successful. The point of all these legal manoeuvring is to energise the popular base to try to show them that the election was stolen and we are not going to accept it,” Chomsky said.

“So, it doesn’t matter if they are thrown out by judges who make fun of them. All of that strengthens the feeling that our hero [Trump] is being cheated by an elite – so-called deep state – which is trying to take our country away from us. This is the purpose, [and] it is succeeding,” he added.

The American intellectual feared that Trump might even set up an alternate government, “the valid true government, not the fake government” in Washington and his supporters would rally around it.

He said the US Senate is finished as a deliberative body. Its sole function is to prevent the Democrats from doing anything—just to make the country ungovernable.

“With Trump out of office, it will go back to the phase where it was under Obama administration. Just prevent anything from happening, make the country ungovernable,” he said.

He said “Mitch McConnell’s Senate” has had two goals: One to pass legislations that enriches the very rich and empowers the corporate sector and passes the burden over to the general public.

“The other is to stack the judiciary, top to bottom. Every post [to be filled] with young ultra-right lawyers who will be able to block any mildly progressive legislation from the generation, no matter what the public want.”

However, despite painting a bleak picture, Chomsky insisted that all these crises can be addressed. “None of this is inevitable. Take any of the crises that we face, they have solutions and we know the solutions. The solutions are feasible. They are in hand,” he said.

But, he added, it is not enough to just have academic knowledge of what to do. “Somebody has to take the knowledge and work with it. That is the burden that the generation is facing. It is a severe responsibility and an exciting challenge,” he said.

Iran attack

He said Trump before leaving the office might take various steps, including attacking Iran. However, he added, Iran in retaliation might target oil fields in Saudi Arabia, which would have a global impact.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/227503...h0n2ndc1PR6mZCzkG_Q7H-ipxMVVIcL_e9U4BjYtxP55A
 
We produced a Nobel laureate in physics and we treated him like an outcast because he was an Ahmadi.

His name has beetne pretty much wiped out of textbooks and mentioning his name is academic institutions is forbidden.

In fact, majority of schoolchildren today are not even aware of him. Who he was and what he did.

He continues to be a revered figure outside Pakistan.

The non-serious attitude of the incumbent government can be gauged by the fact that they appointed an lawyer as Minister of Science & Technology, who managed to keep his job after claiming on live tv that Pakistan sent the Hubble telescope to space.
 
Chomsky doesn't know what he's talking about. I believe most Pakistanis go to private schools which have a different curriculm (?). Also I seriously doubt "Science has virtually disappeared", I'm pretty certain it''s a subject over there and if anything a lot of Pakistanis do really well in the sciences when they come here.
 
Chomsky doesn't know what he's talking about. I believe most Pakistanis go to private schools which have a different curriculm (?). Also I seriously doubt "Science has virtually disappeared", I'm pretty certain it''s a subject over there and if anything a lot of Pakistanis do really well in the sciences when they come here.

Nope. Almost everybody goes to a public school and our science curriculum is garbage!
 
Nope. Almost everybody goes to a public school and our science curriculum is garbage!

Lmaoo this is not true, literally everyone I know in Pakistan only goes to private schools except possibly people in rural areas, I'd verify with people that grew up there recently [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION]
 
Lmaoo this is not true, literally everyone I know in Pakistan only goes to private schools except possibly people in rural areas, I'd verify with people that grew up there recently [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION]

Most people go to public schools and low-end private schools because they cannot afford the high-end private schools because they only cater to the elite class, and the people you know in Pakistan probably belong to that rung.

But not all public schools are bad, especially the boarding ones. They are really good.
 
I've worked with a few decent Pakistani-origin scientists, who had their primary education there. The system can't be as bad as Chomsky is making it out to be.
But what is striking, at least in my experience, is that good Pakistani scientists seem to come only from Lahore. There are hardly any from other places, including Karachi. This is quite in contrast with India where every state (including Bihar) seems to put out good scientific talent regularly.
 
Lmaoo this is not true, literally everyone I know in Pakistan only goes to private schools except possibly people in rural areas, I'd verify with people that grew up there recently [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION]

It is.
 
I've worked with a few decent Pakistani-origin scientists, who had their primary education there. The system can't be as bad as Chomsky is making it out to be.
But what is striking, at least in my experience, is that good Pakistani scientists seem to come only from Lahore. There are hardly any from other places, including Karachi. This is quite in contrast with India where every state (including Bihar) seems to put out good scientific talent regularly.

Hoodbhoy's from Karachi though and he's one of the most renowned.
 
I've worked with a few decent Pakistani-origin scientists, who had their primary education there. The system can't be as bad as Chomsky is making it out to be.
But what is striking, at least in my experience, is that good Pakistani scientists seem to come only from Lahore. There are hardly any from other places, including Karachi. This is quite in contrast with India where every state (including Bihar) seems to put out good scientific talent regularly.

Atta ur rehman? He went to my school in Karachi
 
Lmaoo this is not true, literally everyone I know in Pakistan only goes to private schools except possibly people in rural areas, I'd verify with people that grew up there recently [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] [MENTION=139150]aliasad1998[/MENTION]

Yeah most people who are middle class or above to go private schools
 
Actually, there are quite a few Pakistanis who are doing their PhDs in Hong Kong and almost all of them are from Karachi. I met a guy who was doing a PhD in ballistic engineering.
 
I think what he is trying to say is that our scientific and educated community even with the infrastructure we have in place, probably align more with the religious superstitions than actual science.

And it’s true! I have a group of old school mates from lahore who are the biggest believers of religious superstitions, conspiracy theories and this and that and they are mostly highly qualified

There is also very little going on in terms of R&D in Pakistan. Compared to where we were 20-30 years ago, our curve has plateaued and we are not making the advancements that we’re expected of us.
 
And it’s true! I have a group of old school mates from lahore who are the biggest believers of religious superstitions, conspiracy theories and this and that and they are mostly highly qualified

It is a myth that religious belief has any negative effect on your scientific thinking. Many famous scientists were believers. I work with a Pakistani guy who is very smart, and during calls when he shares his screen, I can see tabs open for latest episode by Orya Maqbool Jaan.
 
You can definitely be religious yet successful at the same time. I love how a lot of low life Pakistani keyboard warriors are using this as an excuse to push their anti Islamic agenda. In essence though, Chomsky is right overall. There is no doubt that religious extremism and superstition has embedded itself too deeply within our society, which is having an impact on our education system. But the truth is that this has produced an equally strong anti religious sentiment among people in recent times that can be observed if one has the misfortune of minglingamong more well off Pakistanis even for a little while. There are a lot of complex and deep rooted problems within our society and a lot of them are not related to religious extremism.
 
To give you guys an example. Just recently I saw a really really dumb Pakistani girl post quotes from this recent talk he gave, on her Instagram story. I wonder. How much of Chomsky’s work has she read (if she has read anything substantial at all in her life) and I wonder how much she contributes positively to Pakistani society?
 
Religious superstition, as Chomsky says, is pervasive not just among the masses but among the elites too. If anything, the elites are hypocrites who on one hand, live lives of excess and on the other hand get up in arms whenever anyone tries to question the role of religion in every walk of life in Pakistan, or certain laws that regularly used to target minorities, and other citizens.
 
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Religious superstition, as Chomsky says, is pervasive not just among the masses but among the elites too. If anything, the elites are hypocrites who on one hand, live lives of excess and on the other hand get up in arms whenever anyone tries to question the role of religion in every walk of life in Pakistan, or certain laws that regularly used to target minorities, and other citizens.

It's all over the world dude, India is said to be a secular state yet superstitions are rife. Same thing here in the US, literally every President we've had has some strange superstition

Most people here even think the COVID vaccine is a conspiracy like the virus itself and that it was made to spread the "mark of the beast" and the "end of times", the Republicans aren't popular for no reason.
 
It is a myth that religious belief has any negative effect on your scientific thinking. Many famous scientists were believers. I work with a Pakistani guy who is very smart, and during calls when he shares his screen, I can see tabs open for latest episode by Orya Maqbool Jaan.
Smartness and Orya Maqbool Jaan exists in two polar opposite exis of the known Universe. So I doubt about the smartness of that guy you work with :)) :))
 
It's all over the world dude, India is said to be a secular state yet superstitions are rife. Same thing here in the US, literally every President we've had has some strange superstition

Most people here even think the COVID vaccine is a conspiracy like the virus itself and that it was made to spread the "mark of the beast" and the "end of times", the Republicans aren't popular for no reason.

As a Pakistani, I am more concerned with what's happening in my own country then I am with what's happening in other countries. Pakistani society has seen a troubling drift towards radicalism in the past 20 odd years and the fact that there are laws that serve as ammunition for bigots and extremists only makes things worse.

India, despite suffering from many of the same and in some cases worse, issues of weaponization of religion, has still made many advances in science and information technology that underpin the rise of its economy, as well as its status in the world over the last 2-3 decades.

The US for all its pitfalls is a secular state. It does not single out quakers or Catholics as 'not Christian'. And the did not become the prime superpower in the world by abandoning science and restoring to a life of religious orthodoxy.
 
It's all over the world dude, India is said to be a secular state yet superstitions are rife. Same thing here in the US, literally every President we've had has some strange superstition

Most people here even think the COVID vaccine is a conspiracy like the virus itself and that it was made to spread the "mark of the beast" and the "end of times", the Republicans aren't popular for no reason.

As a Pakistani, I am more concerned with what's happening in my own country then I am with what's happening in other countries. Pakistani society has seen a troubling drift towards radicalism in the past 20 odd years and the fact that there are laws that serve as ammunition for bigots and extremists only makes things worse.

India, despite suffering from many of the same (and in some cases even worse) issues of weaponization of religion, has still made many advances in science and information technology that underpin the rise of its economy, as well as its status in the world over the last 2-3 decades.

The US for all its pitfalls is a secular state. It does not single out Quakers or Catholics as 'not Christian'. And it did not become the prime superpower in the world by abandoning science and resorting to a life of religious orthodoxy.
 
Pakistan is the most superstitious nation on this planet. This a country where people go to shrines and ask faith healers to grant them children and money.

Many Pakistanis believe that faith healers have supernatural powers - they are capable of granting them health and they are able to influence every aspect of their lives.

I know a family whose infant stuttered and they took him to a shrine where the faith healer asked them to bring a tongue made of silver and give it to him. Later, they went to a jeweller , got a silver tongue made and handed it over to the faith healer. A couple of weeks later, they told me that their infant’s stuttering has decreased.

These sort of rituals are carried out by almost every family in Pakistan.

There is a shrine in Sindh where people go and drink water from a pond inhabited by turtles believing that the brown-colored water has healing powers.
 
Pakistan is the most superstitious nation on this planet. This a country where people go to shrines and ask faith healers to grant them children and money.

Many Pakistanis believe that faith healers have supernatural powers - they are capable of granting them health and they are able to influence every aspect of their lives.


I know a family whose infant stuttered and they took him to a shrine where the faith healer asked them to bring a tongue made of silver and give it to him. Later, they went to a jeweller , got a silver tongue made and handed it over to the faith healer. A couple of weeks later, they told me that their infant’s stuttering has decreased.

These sort of rituals are carried out by almost every family in Pakistan.

There is a shrine in Sindh where people go and drink water from a pond inhabited by turtles believing that the brown-colored water has healing powers.

This is super common in India, even more so than in Pakistan..
 
Chomsky is a blast from the past. He was one of the bravest and most outspoken political journalists of this century. The right wing media used to hate him with a passion. I would always give what he says some serious thought, he's not one for saying stuff to win popularity contests.
 
I am more interested in his comments on the erosion of democracy worldwide and the emergence of autocrats who are frontmen for the hyper-rich.
 
It is a myth that religious belief has any negative effect on your scientific thinking. Many famous scientists were believers. I work with a Pakistani guy who is very smart, and during calls when he shares his screen, I can see tabs open for latest episode by Orya Maqbool Jaan.

We need to delineate religious superstition/radicalism from practicing religion as it should be.

They are not the same.. and being a good worker isnt what Chomsky is talking about.
We are talking about cutting edge too scale development and innovation that is needed to drive nations forward... thats the missing piece..
 
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