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Non-Muslims visiting Islam's holiest places of worship in Saudi Arabia

Yossarian

Yossarian

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An Israeli blogger’s photograph from inside one of Islam’s holiest sites set off a firestorm in the Middle East

Mosque blogger.jpg

At first glance the photograph seems unremarkable. A bearded man in traditional Arab garb stands in the Mosque of the Prophet in Medina, the second holiest site in Islam, and smiles broadly at the camera.

But clutched under his arm is something unusual: a small satchel adorned with Hebrew writing. Inside the bag are tefillin, small boxes of Torah scrolls which observant Jews wrap around their arms and heads during prayers.

The man in the photograph is Ben Tzion, a 31-year-old Israeli blogger, and his pictures from inside the Saudi mosque where the Prophet Mohammed is buried have set off a firestorm on social media in the Arab world.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=i...vRjdLXAhWkF8AKHaynBNIQpwUIHg&biw=1366&bih=589
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And Mohammed Bin Salman is planning to join hands with Israel (and the USA) to start a conflict with Iran. If so, then an incident like this will not be helpful for him and the Israelis.
 
So what;s the big deal? From dawn ~
Asif Ahmed

I see no harm

on FLIP SIDE

whats wrong with this.....in the UK we often invite non-Muslims to masques and feel pride when a royalty visits ,,, a non issue really.

Shahzad Akbar Shaikh

I totally agree with this traveller. Show respect and you are more than welcome anywhere. There is no harm in visting.
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https://www.dawn.com/news/1372165/i...fter-muslims-protest-photo-at-masjid-i-nabawi

Is he doing something he shouldn't have, if not then this shouldn;t even get air miles on the internet.
 
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Not sure he was there to poke fun at anybody or anything.


Russian-born Ben Tzion, 31, has been posting photos of himself visiting Iran, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Jordan.
His Facebook page includes photos of him inside Medina Prophet's Mosque, one of Islam's holiest sites.
"People of Saudi Arabia would stand with the Jewish nation side by side," he said in a Facebook post with a photo of him performing the Saudi sword dance in a traditional ankle-length garment known as a "thobe".
"Peace in the Middle East with respect and love towards each other," he said in another post.
Non-Muslims are prohibited from visiting Mecca and advised not to enter parts of central Medina, where the mosque is located. But Mr Tzion said religious sites in Medina were open to the public.
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Speaking to the Times of Israel, Mr Tzion - who became an Israeli citizen in 2014 - said visiting Muslim countries was "a hobby", describing his message as "respect for other cultures and faiths".
"No-one in the Arab world ever approached me with hostility," he said.
"They tell me they love Israel and the Jewish people."
He said he had acquired visas and entered all the holy sites legally, though not specifying which of his passports he travelled on.
Mr Tzion has also posted photos of his visits to the Iranian cities of Tehran and Qom. Israel and Iran are arch foes and citizens of the Jewish state are not allowed to visit Iran.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-42071018
 
You can visit mosque but have to be respectful. I don't see him poking fun, granted all my info about this topic has come from this thread. I hear Instagram banned his account.
 
Initially reading the thread title I thought it would be a Jewish troll who set out and succeeded in getting a collective outrage from Muslims.

Turns out there's no story and no outrage, and he isn't a troll.
As to the OP, I have a feeling KSA and Israel's relationship is not going to be affected either.
 
LegCutter said:
Initially reading the thread title I thought it would be a Jewish troll who set out and succeeded in getting a collective outrage from Muslims.

Turns out there's no story and no outrage, and he isn't a troll.
As to the OP, I have a feeling KSA and Israel's relationship is not going to be affected either.
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So if there is no outrage, what is the story about?
 
I guess Non muslims weren't even allowed to enter Masjid e Nabwi??
 
Azzurri said:
I guess Non muslims weren't even allowed to enter Masjid e Nabwi??
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Non-Muslim's weren't allowed in the whole of Makkah (although they find ways of entering) during my time working/living there. I don't know if it is still the case, everyone had to go through checkpoints on the roads into Makkah, and non-Muslims weren't allowed in. So much so, I recall that there was a road that skirted around Makkah, which was nicknamed "The Christian Bypass" by non-Muslim expats.

And yes, non-Muslim's weren't allowed into The Prophet's Mosque in Medina either. I suspect it still is the case.

So the guy is breaking Saudi law on two fronts, being in Saudi Arabia under false pretenses (Presumably he's Jewish?), and as a non-Muslim, being inside The Prophet's Mosque.
 
Disgusting. Saudi royals are useless fools. Only reason Apartheid Israel is getting Hunky Dory with them is because they want to use Arabs against Iran, otherwise it want nothing to do with Arabs. If Saudis are serious about countering Iran, they would help the Syrian rebels who are already fighting Iran in Syria.
 
I wonder if there's any religious text forbids them from visiting the sacred places?

Second, those who think its hardline, Just be a Muslim and pray couple of times in Masjid-e-Aqsa, Israeli forces will tell you who's hardliner then.
 
I wonder if he was inspired by Richard Francis Burton, the 19th century English traveler who visited the holy sites disguised as a Muslim. He wrote a book about his exploits, which I vaguely remember reading. The book was insightful in that it portrayed a picture of what the sites were like in the 1850's, albeit through the eyes of an Englishman. Unlike this guy, Burton prepared for the trip for years, and to pass off as a Muslim, even had himself circumcised.

If you're interested, the book is available online for free.
 
What is the check at the gates of Mecca? How do the guards identify whether you are a Muslim or a person of another religion? Do they ask you to recite the Holy Quran or something?
 
Varun said:
What is the check at the gates of Mecca? How do the guards identify whether you are a Muslim or a person of another religion? Do they ask you to recite the Holy Quran or something?
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I don't think they ask you these questions only go by your documents.
But if you are in Israel and want to enter Al Aqsa Mosque and they suspect you are not Muslim, they will ask you if you are Muslim and make you read passage from the Quran.
 
I can understand the anger, he is gloating at being inside the Prophet's mosque while Palestinians are being occupied in their own lands.

I believe it's illegal for a non-Muslim to enter this holy mosque. But I don't expect the Saudi's who are also Zionists to care.

The sooner this puppet regime is gone from the holy land the better.
 
Varun said:
What is the check at the gates of Mecca? How do the guards identify whether you are a Muslim or a person of another religion? Do they ask you to recite the Holy Quran or something?
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Fairly easy to implement

For those living and/or working in Saudi, there are 3 different types of Saudi ID Cards that you need to carry with you at all times.

1. Saudi Arabian citizen
2. Non-Saudi, Muslim (expat)
3. non-Saudi, non-Muslim (expat)

For Businessmen / visitors / pilgrims, you have the visa in your passport, which limits where and where not you can go in Saudi Arabia. For, example, Muslim hajj/umrah pilgrims visas don't allow them to travel into other parts of Saudi Arabia away from the holy sites/ regions.
 
Gabbar Singh said:
Not sure he was there to poke fun at anybody or anything.


He said he had acquired visas and entered all the holy sites legally, though not specifying which of his passports he travelled on.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-42071018
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Not possible without lying when applying for his visa. He would have been asked about his religion (Jewish), if he had ever visited Israel, and if he had Israeli citizenship.

And what kind of visa was it?
A business visa? He would have required a sponsor.
An Umrah/Hajj pilgrim visa? he would have needed to prove he was a muslim.
A visitor's visa for visiting relatives working in SA? Details required.

So the visas may have been 'legal', but he would have obtained them under false pretenses by lying on his application forms.



Surely a BBC journalist should have figured out this simple fact - or maybe not considering the quality of some BBC journalists these day.
 
Saudi Arabia bans photos, videos at Khana-e-Kaaba and Masjid-e-Nabwi

Days after an Israeli citizen’s selfies at Masjid-e-Nabwi drew heavy criticism on social media, Saudi Arabia has banned visitors from taking photos and videos at the two Holy Mosques in Makkah and Madina.

According to the Saudi General Directorate of Press and Information, the decision to prohibit photos and videos in Khana-e-Kaaba and Masjid-e-Nabwi was taken by the Saudi foreign ministry on November 12.

BBC reports that Russian born Ben Tzion has a history of posting images at religious locations across the Middle East, from Iran to Jordan. The image of him inside Masjid-e-Nabwi was posted on his Facebook page.

In a Facebook post, he wrote: “People of Saudi Arabia would stand with the Jewish nation side by side”. “Peace in the Middle East with respect and love towards each other,” another of his posts stated.

The ban, which applies regardless of the objective and includes representatives of the media, was imposed to protect and preserve the holy sites, the statement said. The restriction also applies to the mosques’ surrounding areas.

Saudi authorities cited disturbance of worshippers at the mosques as another reason for the introduction of the measure.

“In the event of a violation of the ban, imposed to ensure the carrying out of worship in a healthier way, tools used to take photos and videos will be confiscated and legal action will be taken,” the statement said.

Non-Muslims are strictly forbidden from entering Makkah and Central Medina.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1569025/3-saudi-arabia-bans-photos-videos-khana-e-kaaba-masjid-e-nabwi/
 
It's disrespectful of going into another place of worship and taking your religious ornaments with you. It'd be like me walking into a Hindu temple with a Qur'an, it's just unacceptable.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Saudi Arabia bans photos, videos at Khana-e-Kaaba and Masjid-e-Nabwi

Days after an Israeli citizen’s selfies at Masjid-e-Nabwi drew heavy criticism on social media, Saudi Arabia has banned visitors from taking photos and videos at the two Holy Mosques in Makkah and Madina.

According to the Saudi General Directorate of Press and Information, the decision to prohibit photos and videos in Khana-e-Kaaba and Masjid-e-Nabwi was taken by the Saudi foreign ministry on November 12.

BBC reports that Russian born Ben Tzion has a history of posting images at religious locations across the Middle East, from Iran to Jordan. The image of him inside Masjid-e-Nabwi was posted on his Facebook page.

In a Facebook post, he wrote: “People of Saudi Arabia would stand with the Jewish nation side by side”. “Peace in the Middle East with respect and love towards each other,” another of his posts stated.

The ban, which applies regardless of the objective and includes representatives of the media, was imposed to protect and preserve the holy sites, the statement said. The restriction also applies to the mosques’ surrounding areas.
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That is so so sad - all due to the actions of the actions of the Jewish blogger who was breaking the law by being there in the first place.

Now all pilgrims, Umrah and Hajj, will be denied the opportunity to take selfies / treasured memories of their presence in these holy sites, and to show their friends and relatives photos of themselves being there.

Saudi authorities cited disturbance of worshippers at the mosques as another reason for the introduction of the measure.

“In the event of a violation of the ban, imposed to ensure the carrying out of worship in a healthier way, tools used to take photos and videos will be confiscated and legal action will be taken,” the statement said.

Non-Muslims are strictly forbidden from entering Makkah and Central Medina.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1569025/3-saudi-arabia-bans-photos-videos-khana-e-kaaba-masjid-e-nabwi/
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Heh, it's one of those laws that is waiting to be flouted. All it takes is one guy snapping one with his camera to everybody else following suit. If the first one is an Arab, nothing will happen to him either.
 
Pakistanian said:
It's disrespectful of going into another place of worship and taking your religious ornaments with you. It'd be like me walking into a Hindu temple with a Qur'an, it's just unacceptable.
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It should actually be a non-issue provided that we believe Torah is also the word of God (although we believe current one is corrupted). So that should not be a big deal.

However he broke a law of KSA which cannot be justified. Criticise the law but cant deny he committed a crime. I personally dont believe in such laws. You shouldnt stop a person from visiting such glorious places.
 
Abdullah719 said:
Saudi Arabia bans photos, videos at Khana-e-Kaaba and Masjid-e-Nabwi

Days after an Israeli citizen’s selfies at Masjid-e-Nabwi drew heavy criticism on social media, Saudi Arabia has banned visitors from taking photos and videos at the two Holy Mosques in Makkah and Madina.

According to the Saudi General Directorate of Press and Information, the decision to prohibit photos and videos in Khana-e-Kaaba and Masjid-e-Nabwi was taken by the Saudi foreign ministry on November 12.

BBC reports that Russian born Ben Tzion has a history of posting images at religious locations across the Middle East, from Iran to Jordan. The image of him inside Masjid-e-Nabwi was posted on his Facebook page.

In a Facebook post, he wrote: “People of Saudi Arabia would stand with the Jewish nation side by side”. “Peace in the Middle East with respect and love towards each other,” another of his posts stated.

The ban, which applies regardless of the objective and includes representatives of the media, was imposed to protect and preserve the holy sites, the statement said. The restriction also applies to the mosques’ surrounding areas.

Saudi authorities cited disturbance of worshippers at the mosques as another reason for the introduction of the measure.

“In the event of a violation of the ban, imposed to ensure the carrying out of worship in a healthier way, tools used to take photos and videos will be confiscated and legal action will be taken,” the statement said.

Non-Muslims are strictly forbidden from entering Makkah and Central Medina.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1569025/3-saudi-arabia-bans-photos-videos-khana-e-kaaba-masjid-e-nabwi/
Click to expand...

Alhumdullilah so greatful for this. Now I wont have to look at stupid pictures of people showing off on facebook. "Oh look Im at khana kaaba, look what a super Muslim I am"
 
He is lucky that he didnt get caught as Saudi police creates unnecessary hassle even for normal travellers.
 
Varun said:
Heh, it's one of those laws that is waiting to be flouted. All it takes is one guy snapping one with his camera to everybody else following suit. If the first one is an Arab, nothing will happen to him either.
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Not been to Saudi have you? Incidentally, you do realise that there are millions of non-Saudi expat Arabs (eg Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, Palestinians etc) living and working in Saudi Arabia?
 
Yossarian said:
Not been to Saudi have you? Incidentally, you do realise that there are millions of non-Saudi expat Arabs (eg Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, Palestinians etc) living and working in Saudi Arabia?
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I believe we are talking about the mosque in question and the rules around it, not the whole of Saudi Arabia. The guards around Mecca are usually young and juvenile so aren't going to be charging at people holding a camera and taking photos, leave alone thousands of them.

This is as strict a rule as the one about turning off your cellphones while flying.
 
Varun said:
I believe we are talking about the mosque in question and the rules around it, not the whole of Saudi Arabia. The guards around Mecca are usually young and juvenile so aren't going to be charging at people holding a camera and taking photos, leave alone thousands of them.

This is as strict a rule as the one about turning off your cellphones while flying.
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I asked if you've ever been to Saudi never mind Makkah. Or put it another way, are you saying this as a result of first hand knowledge of actually being there, or are you basing this on what you've seen/read in the media and/or what others have told you?

For what it's worth, I spent a number of years living/working in Saudi Arabia. And whilst it's true to say that there are, to use your words, some "young and juvenile guards" "around Mecca" who are normally very lenient and understanding, let me tell you that there are also plenty of zealots, both young and old, who will use any excuse to show 'they're the boss'.
 
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Yossarian said:
I asked if you've ever been to Saudi never mind Makkah. Or put it another way, are you saying this as a result of first hand knowledge of actually being there, or are you basing this on what you've seen/read in the media and/or what others have told you?

For what it's worth, I spent a number of years living/working in Saudi Arabia. And whilst it's true to say that there are, to use your words, some "young and juvenile guards" "around Mecca" who are normally very lenient and understanding, let me tell you that there are also plenty of zealots, both young and old, who will use any excuse to show 'they're the boss'.
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I have a friend who is currently in Jeddah, and he says that Saudi police are quite lenient. Not sure what your experience was. Maybe it differs based on ones social profile, as he is working in a top post.
 
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Yossarian said:
I asked if you've ever been to Saudi never mind Makkah. Or put it another way, are you saying this as a result of first hand knowledge of actually being there, or are you basing this on what you've seen/read in the media and/or what others have told you?

For what it's worth, I spent a number of years living/working in Saudi Arabia. And whilst it's true to say that there are, to use your words, some "young and juvenile guards" "around Mecca" who are normally very lenient and understanding, let me tell you that there are also plenty of zealots, both young and old, who will use any excuse to show 'they're the boss'.
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I've been.

My personal view is this no pictures law is only to clam down those who are angry about the incident but will be nearly impossible to police due to the vast numbers esp in Hajj. If someone has saved up for many years to go to Hajj, they will take a picture regardless of this law, I would.
 
CricketCartoons said:
I have a friend who is currently in Jeddah, and he says that Saudi police are quite lenient. Not sure what your experience was. Maybe it differs based on ones social profile, as he is working in a top post.
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I was "a Brit", and did a number of different stints project managing various US / UK multi-nationals contracts with different government ministries. Make of that what you will.

Besides, I'm not saying that the Saudi police are all bad (or good). Just as you wouldn't be saying that all police in India are bad (or good).

You seriously think that in Mecca/ Saudi Arabia of all places, the religious police are en masse going to ignore a law that has to do with what is, and what is not, permitted in and around the two holy mosques?

Your "friend" in a "top post" in Jeddah seems to spend a lot of time keeping you well informed of all the subtleties of Saudi society and officialdom. You sure this "friend" of yours is not just in your head, and getting all his/her info from internet discussion forums? Because it sure does sound like it! :))
 
KingKhanWC said:
I've been.

My personal view is this no pictures law is only to clam down those who are angry about the incident but will be nearly impossible to police due to the vast numbers esp in Hajj. If someone has saved up for many years to go to Hajj, they will take a picture regardless of this law, I would.
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Of course they will. And as I stated earlier, these photos will be treasured memories that they will look at again and again for the rest of their lives, as well as showing their friends and families photos of themselves being there. And thus it is completely wrong for the Saudis to deny them taking these photos and videos of these treasured memories.

Having said that, I've witnessed first hand some zealots and rights b*****ds who belong to the religious police harassing people on the slightest excuse. This new law is simply ammunition for them.
 
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Yossarian said:
Of course they will. And as I stated earlier, these photos will be treasured memories that they will look at again and again for the rest of their lives, as well as showing their friends and families photos of themselves being there. And thus it is completely wrong for the Saudis to deny them taking these photos and videos of these treasured memories.

Having said that, I've witnessed first hand some zealots and rights b*****ds who belong to the religious police harassing people on the slightest excuse. This new law is simply ammunition for them.
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Ive just had a check on instagram, people are still putting up pictures. It's not 100% these photos were taken after the law was brought in but we will see in weeks, months to come if it has any real effect on people.


It should actually be a non-issue provided that we believe Torah is also the word of God (although we believe current one is corrupted). So that should not be a big deal.
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Yes Christians were even allowed to pray inside the Prophets(pbuh) masjid but now the numbers are so large, it makes sense only Muslims should be allowed in for practical reasons and also to ensure the places dont turn into a tourist attraction.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Ive just had a check on instagram, people are still putting up pictures. It's not 100% these photos were taken after the law was brought in but we will see in weeks, months to come if it has any real effect on people.
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Watch the live stream. You will see many people holding up their phones and taking pictures. This law is useless and impossible to implement.
 
A Saudi who allegedly helped a non-Muslim enter the holy city of Makkah has been arrested, police in the kingdom said on Friday, after online backlash against an Israeli journalist.

The journalist, Gil Tamary of Israel’s Channel 13, on Monday posted to Twitter a video of himself sneaking into Makkah in defiance of a ban on non-Muslims.

Makkah regional police have “referred a citizen” to prosecutors for alleged complicity in “transferring and facilitating the entry of a (non-Muslim) journalist”, a police spokesperson said in comments reported by the official Saudi Press Agency.

SPA did not name the journalist but said he is an American citizen, whose case has also been referred to prosecutors “to take the necessary procedures against him in accordance with the applied laws”.

Despite growing behind-the-scenes business and security contacts, Saudi Arabia does not recognise Israel and did not join the 2020 US-brokered Abraham Accords that saw the Jewish state establish ties with two of the kingdom’s neighbours, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.

In his roughly 10-minute clip, Tamary visits Mount Arafat, where robed pilgrims gather to pray during the high point of the Haj pilgrimage each year.

He makes clear he knows that what he’s doing is outlawed but says he wanted to showcase “a place that is so important to our Muslim brothers and sisters”.

Tamary’s justification, and subsequent apology, did little to quiet angry Saudi social media responses.

The controversy followed US President Joe Biden’s visit to both Israel and Saudi Arabia last week.

On Wednesday, an Israeli minister had denounced Tamary’s report as “stupid and harmful” to Israel-Gulf ties.

“I’m sorry (but) it was a stupid thing to do and take pride in,” Israel’s regional cooperation minister Esawi Freij, who is Muslim, told public broadcaster Kan.

“It was irresponsible and damaging to air this report just for the sake of ratings.”

Freij said the report hurt US-encouraged efforts to gradually move Israel and Saudi Arabia towards more normal ties.

Tamary was in Jeddah covering US President Joe Biden’s visit. He later apologised for his act, saying he had not intended to offend Muslims.

“If anyone takes offence to this video, I deeply apologise,” he wrote in English on Twitter.

DAWN
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Disclaimer: I would like to reiterate that this visit to Mecca was not intended to offend Muslims, or any other person. If anyone takes offense to this video, I deeply apologize. The purpose of this entire endeavor was to showcase the importance of Mecca and the beauty <br>.... <a href="https://t.co/aAxipctRrG">https://t.co/aAxipctRrG</a></p>— גיל תמרי (@tamarygil) <a href="https://twitter.com/tamarygil/status/1549351090424086529?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 19, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
The doors of God should be open for everyone. I feel it is petty to stop someone from visiting based on religious grounds.
 
Champ_Pal said:
The doors of God should be open for everyone. I feel it is petty to stop someone from visiting based on religious grounds.
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No that is not right. The holiest shrines in Islam are only for the faithful. I don't have any problems with people of other faiths using such rules. In this case it is not a question of believing in any God but in Islam. Those who reject Islam should not be allowed to see it's holiest shrines.
 
Online backlash after Israeli journalist sneaks into Mecca

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...-sneaks-into-mecca-triggering-online-backlash

Wow, looks like he not only sneaked in there, he got to visit some of the holy sites as well. He was aided by a local, apparently

How do they ensure that only muslims gain access to Mecca? I'm sure they check the papers of the visitors but what if the IDs don't mention the religion?

It doesn't look like it will impact Israel's newly developing ties with the Gulf countries, though.

What do you think of it?
 
gani999 said:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...-sneaks-into-mecca-triggering-online-backlash

Wow, looks like he not only sneaked in there, he got to visit some of the holy sites as well. He was aided by a local, apparently

How do they ensure that only muslims gain access to Mecca? I'm sure they check the papers of the visitors but what if the IDs don't mention the religion?

It doesn't look like it will impact Israel's newly developing ties with the Gulf countries, though.

What do you think of it?
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Once you're in the country esp with a group nothing further is checked when entering Mecca. At Hajj, you cannot check millions in and out of the city.

But yes this sort of illegal entrance esp by an Israeli is very dangerous. You cannot trust Zionists, they may aim to harm the worshippers. It was Jewish terrorism which laid the seed to Israel being recognised.

Both the Israeli and his friend should be given some sort of prison sentence.

Mecca and Medina are not tourist attractions but places of worship. If you're not a Muslim, there should be no need to visit.
 
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