Operation Opera by Israel against Iraq

[Varun]

Operation Opera, also known as Operation Babylon, was a surprise Israeli air strike carried out on 7 June 1981, which destroyed an Iraqi nuclear reactor under construction 17 kilometers southeast of Baghdad.

What are your opinions of this raid? Right or wrong, only Israel could have the muscle and the guile to pull something like this off IMO.

You can read about it on Wikipedia. The plot twist with King Hussein of Jordan in his yaught is especially pure theatre:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

 

[JaDed]

If they couldn't stop such an attack they would do well without a nuclear bomb.

 

[Yossarian]

What's the point of this thread? Especially one raised by a Mod? Are you somehow trying to justify the Iraq invasion which occurred decades later? And last but not least, using wikipedia as your source for something that was extremely controversial at the time (and would also be controversial today) considering that Israel attacked a sovereign nation state without provocation on the justification that the country in question will acquire technological know how which could one day be used to make a nuclear weapon, this despite the fact that Israel already had/has nukes of it's own.

What next? Raise a thread on the Cuban missile crisis using wiki as your source?

 

[sshakir411]

As a military operation this was a highly skilled and very well planned attack by the Israelis. Even the Americans wouldn't be able to pull something like this off. This took many months of intelligence gathering and then attacking Iraq when it was least expected. It was however predicted that Iraq could not respond back...something that can't be said about the Iranians which is why you haven't seen such pro activeness from Israel since then.

 

[Yossarian]

As a military operation this was a highly skilled and very well planned attack by the Israelis. Even the Americans wouldn't be able to pull something like this off. This took many months of intelligence gathering and then attacking Iraq when it was least expected. It was however predicted that Iraq could not respond back...something that can't be said about the Iranians which is why you haven't seen such pro activeness from Israel since then.

Don't delude yourself into believing all the PR exercise. Considering that the Americans and Saudis knew in advance, with the Saudis privately giving the nod despite their official rhetoric against Israel, along with the fact that the Iraqi radars and jets were far inferior, to such an extent that they couldn't track the Israeli jets before the track, and even if they could, the Iraqi jets would have come off second best in any dog fight, means that to all intents and purposes the only problem the Israelis faced was the ability to refuel their jets on their return leg so that they could get back safely.

It's not much different to the air power used against Isis in Iraq and Syria, and against the Taliban in Afghanistan, ie Unless there was an (un)lucky strike or engine failure, the jet pilots don't have much to fear other than running out of fuel!

 

[Yossarian]

As a military operation this was a highly skilled and very well planned attack by the Israelis. Even the Americans wouldn't be able to pull something like this off. This took many months of intelligence gathering and then attacking Iraq when it was least expected. It was however predicted that Iraq could not respond back...something that can't be said about the Iranians which is why you haven't seen such pro activeness from Israel since then.

Just to add:

This occurred just a few months after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and a few months before the start of the Iran-Iraq war (in which the West supported Iraq/Saddam Hussain).

 

[Varun]

It's not much different to the air power used against Isis in Iraq and Syria, and against the Taliban in Afghanistan, ie Unless there was an (un)lucky strike or engine failure, the jet pilots don't have much to fear other than running out of fuel!

Nonsense. This was during the Iran - Iraq war of the 1980s and both the US and Soviet Union among other powers like the French and the British were arming Saddam to the teeth. Iraq had the most modern air force in the region, with dozens of handy MIG-29 Fulcrums being the core combat aircraft. Overall, between the autumn of 1980 and the summer of 1990, the number of aircraft in the IQAF went from 332 to over 1000.

And you're equating them with the rag tag Taliban or ISIS? Yeah okay mate.

Still doesn't address the question as to why this particular incident was 'randomly' plucked out of thin air almost 36 years after the event.

Because it's an interesting tale no matter how old or young? Go figure.

 

[Varun]

Just to add:

This occurred just a few months after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and a few months before the start of the Iran-Iraq war (in which the West supported Iraq/Saddam Hussain).

Incorrect.

The Iran - Iraq war was well underway by the time this raid took place. In fact, Iran had already damaged the reactor in question through Operation Scorch Sword a year earlier, right at the beginning of hostilities.

 

[Yossarian]

Nonsense. This was during the Iran - Iraq war of the 1980s and both the US and Soviet Union among other powers like the French and the British were arming Saddam to the teeth. Iraq had the most modern air force in the region, with dozens of handy MIG-29 Fulcrums being the core combat aircraft. Overall, between the autumn of 1980 and the summer of 1990, the number of aircraft in the IQAF went from 332 to over 1000.

And you're equating them with the rag tag Taliban or ISIS? Yeah okay mate.



Because it's an interesting tale no matter how old or young? Go figure.

Yep. You're right. Iraq at that time, in terms of military technology, air power, air defence systems etc., was at least on a par with Israel and it's U.S. supplied jets and associated hardware. Perhaps even more advanced than the Israelis considering that the Iraqis had the latest jets and technology that the Americans, Russians, the British, French etc. had to offer. Similarly, the Saudis did everything within their power (using American supplied jets and air defence systems) to intercept the Israeli jets whilst they flew hundreds of miles over Saudi territory, both on their way to the attack as well as during their return back to Israel. My mistake. It all fits in neatly to the version you describe.

 

[Varun]

Yep. You're right. Iraq at that time, in terms of military technology, air power, air defence systems etc., was at least on a par with Israel and it's U.S. supplied jets and associated hardware. Perhaps even more advanced than the Israelis considering that the Iraqis had the latest jets and technology that the Americans, Russians, the British, French etc. had to offer. Similarly, the Saudis did everything within their power (using American supplied jets and air defence systems) to intercept the Israeli jets whilst they flew hundreds of miles over Saudi territory, both on their way to the attack as well as during their return back to Israel. My mistake. It all fits in neatly to the version you describe.

Let's try again.

The capabilities of a handful of Israeli fighters at the edge of their flight envelope in hostile territory with a fully functional air force can be up for debate, but you veered away from your original comparison, which wasn't between two bonafide air forces at all:

It's not much different to the air power used against Isis in Iraq and Syria, and against the Taliban in Afghanistan, ie Unless there was an (un)lucky strike or engine failure, the jet pilots don't have much to fear other than running out of fuel!

So yes, it was a daring mission by the IAF against the Iraqi reactor. One in which they clearly came out on top.

 

[Yossarian]

Let's try again.

The capabilities of a handful of Israeli fighters at the edge of their flight envelope in hostile territory with a fully functional air force can be up for debate, but you veered away from your original comparison, which wasn't between two bonafide air forces at all:



So yes, it was a daring mission by the IAF against the Iraqi reactor. One in which they clearly came out on top.

OK. So the latest American supplied Israeli jets flew to Iraq, having planned and followed a course using intel provided by the Americans, evading Iraqi air defences by virtue of the superior American supplied technology and intel as to the capabilities and locations of the Iraqi defences and their blindspots, bombed a large building under construction, flew back without being intercepted, again by virtue of possessing superior American supplied technology.

And all that against someone who didn't expect to be attacked by the Israelis since they were not at war with them, and were in fact separated from Israeli territory by having three supposedly anti-Israel nations between themselves and the Israelis.

And all this whilst the Iraqis were engaged in a vicious war against their poweful neighbour Iran on their opposite borders.

So bearing all that in mind, if you still believe it to have been such " a daring mission" then carry in believing so. Frankly, who cares! Other than you perhaps.

 

[Varun]

OK. So the latest American supplied Israeli jets flew to Iraq, having planned and followed a course using intel provided by the Americans, evading Iraqi air defences by virtue of the superior American supplied technology and intel as to the capabilities and locations of the Iraqi defences and their blindspots, bombed a large building under construction, flew back without being intercepted, again by virtue of possessing superior American supplied technology.

Why are you ignoring the other side? Iraq circa 1981 was far from the pariah state it became later. It was armed by both the Americans and the Soviets, in addition to the other powers as mentioned above.

Are you wrong comparing such a force to the Taliban or the ISIS? Completely.

And all that against someone who didn't expect to be attacked by the Israelis since they were not at war with them, and were in fact separated from Israeli territory by having three supposedly anti-Israel nations between themselves and the Israelis.

All the Arab countries have been at war with Israel since the mid-20th century, and Iraq was no exception. Iraq was separated from the Israeli fighters not by three but by two countries: Saudi Arabia and Jordan. In military terms, they can't be up to much, especially if you read the account of King Hussein of Jordan in the Gulf of Aqaba.

The Saudis probably turned a blind eye at best, in a similar vein to how they served as a launchpad for the eventual invasions of Iraq in the decades later.

 

[Yossarian]

Why are you ignoring the other side? Iraq circa 1981 was far from the pariah state it became later. It was armed by both the Americans and the Soviets, in addition to the other powers as mentioned above.

Are you wrong comparing such a force to the Taliban or the ISIS? Completely.



All the Arab countries have been at war with Israel since the mid-20th century, and Iraq was no exception. Iraq was separated from the Israeli fighters not by three but by two countries: Saudi Arabia and Jordan. In military terms, they can't be up to much, especially if you read the account of King Hussein of Jordan in the Gulf of Aqaba.

The Saudis probably turned a blind eye at best, in a similar vein to how they served as a launchpad for the eventual invasions of Iraq in the decades later.

OK. 36 odd years ago, the Israelis executed the greatest ever military mission in the history of warfare, using superhuman effort and intelligence, against the most formidable enemy forces the world has ever known. Now give it a rest.

 

[saeedhk]

Only Israel has the guts to execute such operations.

 

[Bewal Express]

It just shows that despite spending billions on weapons the Arabs are useless at fighting and because of their incompetence the Israelis are made out to be some sort of super human beings.

 

[Saeed]

Amazing. This was one of the best operation ever if not the best. Israel is the best country at destroying nuke infrastructure. If Israel had not done this ISIS would have nukes right now. Tremendous foresight shown by Israel.

 

[shaykh]

Amazing. This was one of the best operation ever if not the best. Israel is the best country at destroying nuke infrastructure. If Israel had not done this ISIS would have nukes right now. Tremendous foresight shown by Israel.

One more recent one is their bombing of an alleged nuclear reactor in Syria...Operation Orchard in 2007...

 

[Yossarian]

Amazing. This was one of the best operation ever if not the best. Israel is the best country at destroying nuke infrastructure. If Israel had not done this ISIS would have nukes right now. Tremendous foresight shown by Israel.

It takes rather more know how and infrstructure to get to the stage of building a nuke, especially one that can be easily deployed. You've been watching too many B rated movies (probably Indian ones where everyone starts dancing every 5 minutes, whilst at the same time, during the song, also flipping from being on top of mountains, to frolicking in sand dunes in the middle of the desert, to being on board luxury yachts in the middle of the ocean).

 

[Saeed]

One more recent one is their bombing of an alleged nuclear reactor in Syria...Operation Orchard in 2007...

Interesting. We might see Operation Geraffe Neck on the same date this year.

 

[Junaids]

I remember it well.

A brilliantly trained and prepared Air Force against one with good toys and half-trained pilots.

 

[Asif khan]

Wrong - “Preemptive” military attacks are illegal and explicitly forbidden by Chapter I, Article 2.4 of the United Nations Charter but hey, it's Israel, it has the right to act like a lunatic state against any brown-skinned Arab nation in the name of "self defence".

 

[shaykh]

Wrong - “Preemptive” military attacks are illegal and explicitly forbidden by Chapter I, Article 2.4 of the United Nations Charter but hey, it's Israel, it has the right to act like a lunatic state against any brown-skinned Arab nation in the name of "self defence".

If your post is a response to Junaid then the legality of the action has no relation to whether it was well executed or not...

That said...some things which made this possible are that the reactor was above ground...and Iraq just wasn't prepared...they were too busy with the Iraq/Iran war...

As for it being ok...they were condemned for the attack...they just didn't care...condemnation vs destroying an enemies nuclear reactor...not the hardest decision to make...

The US criticised it, so did Britain at least in public...in private im sure they were cool with it...

The concept of pre-emption is generally a thorny one...and Israel are certainly not the only state who have a broad definition of what constitutes imminence...i mean look at the war against ISIS....