Overcast conditions & scrambled seam: Mohammad Amir's bowling against West Indies in World Cup 2019

[adil79]

Overcast conditions & scrambled seam: Mohammad Amir's bowling against West Indies in World Cup 2019

I have seen our opening match against world cup. And every time i saw a replay, amir was bowling with scrambled seam (not cross seam or upright seam).

I thought may be someone else noticed as well, apart from our bowling coach.

I wonder, in those overcast conditions, why didn't he give the ball a chance to swing? Is it because he didn't try to swing it? Even Windies left armer got bit swing early on & that guy was inferior compared to our Amir.

What do you think is the reason?

 

[big_gamer007]

Lack of confidence, fitness.

To bowl fast and swing the ball from a good length takes lot of energy.. the edges amir got was less than 132 kmph deliveries imagine a fully fit and confidence amir bowling 140kph at that length consistently and moving ball away.

 

[adil79]

Lack of confidence, fitness.

To bowl fast and swing the ball from a good length takes lot of energy.. the edges amir got was less than 132 kmph deliveries imagine a fully fit and confidence amir bowling 140kph at that length consistently and moving ball away.

Do you also need confidence to bowl with normal seam?

 

[dhump]

He was bowling with the scrambled seam, or he was not able to keep the seam upright?

 

[Snowflake]

Been seeing this A LOT lately and never understood the thinking behind it.

 

[adil79]

He was bowling with the scrambled seam, or he was not able to keep the seam upright?

Bowling with scrambled seam. Since the alternative is just unthinkable.

Following are classifications as per viewing experience:
1- Still upright seam (very rare) Example: Nathan Bracken, Andy Bichel, James Andersen, Amir (Prime in England before ban)
2- Slight upright seam (rare) Example: Bhuvi Kumar, Boult, Southee, Rahat Ali, Kulasekra
3- Slight Wobbly upright seam (normal) Example: Hassan Ali, Bumrah, Mark Wood, Starc, Muhammad Asif
4- Wobbly upright (less normal): Shaheen Shah Afridi, Sam Curran

So, if you release the ball with the intent of up right seam, it will automatically fall in above 4. Unless you are purposely not trying to bowl it or holding ball cross seam, i really see no way scramble seam won't get released unintentionally.

Also, why does our bowling coach not see the videos and close ups of his bowlers?

 

[Captain caveman]

Amir is a smart cookie. He knows what he is doing, thats why he rarely gets clobbered by batsman.
Why did he bowl scramble seam a nd not with an upright seam?
SIMPLE EXPLANATION :
The white kookaburra ball is a disgrace as a ball. Cheap machine made ball with a flat seam. Bowling with the seam up will get no seam movement as there is no pronounced seam i.e. the ball will hit the gound and move straight up!
Using a scramble seam is hoping the ground (as oppose to the seam of the ball) will cause sme variation of the ball. Basically, no ground is absolutely smooth, theres natural variation in the soil. This helps in seam bowling as long as the ball has some pronounced seam. If it doesd s not have a pronounc

 

[adil79]

Amir is a smart cookie. He knows what he is doing, thats why he rarely gets clobbered by batsman.
Why did he bowl scramble seam a nd not with an upright seam?
SIMPLE EXPLANATION :
The white kookaburra ball is a disgrace as a ball. Cheap machine made ball with a flat seam. Bowling with the seam up will get no seam movement as there is no pronounced seam i.e. the ball will hit the gound and move straight up!
Using a scramble seam is hoping the ground (as oppose to the seam of the ball) will cause sme variation of the ball. Basically, no ground is absolutely smooth, theres natural variation in the soil. This helps in seam bowling as long as the ball has some pronounced seam. If it doesd s not have a pronounc

First,

Ground can cause variation to the upright seam deliveries as well.

If Kookaburra ball is a disgrace and is poor overall, then that doesn't mean you shouldn't even try.

And seam bowling is different than swing. You see scrambled seam with that, like Muhammad Asif & Abbas. With still seam, the seam direction makes way for swing if its given enough air.

 

[gazza619]

He is lacking confidence.

Good to see him getting some wickets.

He might get a bit more confidence into the next game.

 

[Captain caveman]

Amir is a smart cookie. He knows what he is doing, thats why he rarely gets clobbered by batsman.
Why did he bowl scramble seam a nd not with an upright seam?
SIMPLE EXPLANATION :
The white kookaburra ball is a disgrace as a ball. Cheap machine made ball with a flat seam. Bowling with the seam up will get no seam movement as there is no pronounced seam i.e. the ball will hit the gound and move straight up!
Using a scramble seam is hoping the ground (as oppose to the seam of the ball) will cause some variation of the ball. Basically, no ground is absolutely smooth, theres natural variation in the soil. This helps in seam bowling as long as the ball has some pronounced seam. If it doesd s not have a pronounc

If it does not have a pronounced seam the ball just moves vertically up. The seam is also the hardest part of the ball, regardless of a pronounced seam or not. Therefore, using a scramble seam you are exposing the softer underbelly of the ball, which in theory will give more variation when hitting an uneven ground ad result in a slight movement of the ball, not as much as a pronounced seam but more than a flat seam ball.

In summary

A pronounced seam ball you bowl with the seam up.
A flat seam ball you ball with a scrambled seam(exposing the soft underbelly of the ball to the uneven ground). This will result in less seam movement than a pronounced seam ball bowled upright but will give you something compared to a flat seamed ball bowled seam upright, which gives you nothing.(no movement).

Get it?

 

[Captain caveman]

If it does not have a pronounced seam the ball just moves vertically up. The seam is also the hardest part of the ball, regardless of a pronounced seam or not. Therefore, using a scramble seam you are exposing the softer underbelly of the ball, which in theory will give more variation when hitting an uneven ground ad result in a slight movement of the ball, not as much as a pronounced seam but more than a flat seam ball.

In summary

A pronounced seam ball you bowl with the seam up.
A flat seam ball you ball with a scrambled seam(exposing the soft underbelly of the ball to the uneven ground). This will result in less seam movement than a pronounced seam ball bowled upright but will give you something compared to a flat seamed ball bowled seam upright, which gives you nothing.(no movement).

Get it?

The scrambled seam on a flat seam ball is less effective than a upright seam on a pronounced ball as the movement is less and it may or may not occur . As a bowler you are hoping that it occurs even once it may bamboozle the batsman and get you a wicket. And its better than just bowling upright seam on a flat seam ball which will have zero movement i.e. be a straight ball.

 

[big_gamer007]

Do you also need confidence to bowl with normal seam?

Of course if you don't have confidence you can control the ball you bowl with scrambled seam..

 

[adil79]

Trent boult tinkering with his action to swing the white ball. More round arm, means early swing. And any swing is better than no swing. Also notice, how close he now gets to the umpire.

Can our bowlers learn? Or our bowling coach? I am really sad for our team

 

[adil79]

yellow one is stark and red is amir.

Notice how close starc's release is to the stumps as opposed to Amir.

Wasim Akram did an analysis on that and he concur that amir releases ball away from stumps, that's why he doesn't get in swing against right handers, as opposed to Starc who consistently swings it.

 

[IAJ]

View attachment 92404View attachment 92405

yellow one is stark and red is amir.

Notice how close starc's release is to the stumps as opposed to Amir.

Wasim Akram did an analysis on that and he concur that amir releases ball away from stumps, that's why he doesn't get in swing against right handers, as opposed to Starc who consistently swings it.

Well Wasim should tell him this directly. He has 3 more days till the India match and has time to work on this.

 

[adil79]

Well Wasim should tell him this directly. He has 3 more days till the India match and has time to work on this.

yeah, but what about the guy who is paid to tell our bowlers this stuff? when will we connect our bowling performance with the guy who was responsible for getting the basics right with our bowlers? When will we talk about the degrading performance of bowlers with new ball as a result of that?

 

[IAJ]

yeah, but what about the guy who is paid to tell our bowlers this stuff? when will we connect our bowling performance with the guy who was responsible for getting the basics right with our bowlers? When will we talk about the degrading performance of bowlers with new ball as a result of that?

That guy is completely useless. Whatever he is telling them is not working. Even Mohammad Akram did a better job than Azhar.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Well Wasim should tell him this directly. He has 3 more days till the India match and has time to work on this.

How many people have told him this in the last 3 years? He just doesn't wanna listen or is not comfortable with the idea.

 

[adil79]

How many people have told him this in the last 3 years? He just doesn't wanna listen or is not comfortable with the idea.

Unless you told him, how do you know he is aware of it?

Wasim analyzed it recently in this match. Had it been an iota more competent coach, that would have worked for Amir. But the current mind set is, as apparent from bowling performance, dont give roam for boundary balls, instead of working with basic skill set of bowler which enable them to pick wickets.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Unless you told him, how do you know he is aware of it?

Wasim analyzed it recently in this match. Had it been an iota more competent coach, that would have worked for Amir. But the current mind set is, as apparent from bowling performance, dont give roam for boundary balls, instead of working with basic skill set of bowler which enable them to pick wickets.

Wasim Akram said it. Azhar Mahmood acknowledged it. His department coach knows it and has shown him videos. Mickey Arthur probably has heard it thousand times as well.

Or did you feel they all hid this from Amir because there is some agenda against him? Ofcourse not.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Even Starc delivering close to the stumps gets less swing than Amir doing so from away the stumps. Imagine how lethal Amir would be then?

Starc only gets cheap tailender wicket these days because of his high pace.

 

[PennOne]

who bowled better today? starc or amir

Shoaib Akhtar was on with Rashid Latif on youtube today and mentioned that Starc's action is like his, more round arms which means he will get naturally closer to the stumps than Amir but the wrist position and feet position for both at the top of the stride is the same.