Pakistan’s quest for the next ICC Trophy

[dildilpak]

When do you see Pak winning another ICC trophy? Going by past history, Pak tends to win an ICC trophy every 10 events. By that yardstick, we should be close to our next trophy. The next T20 WC in India should be perfect - we will have similar advantage to India this Champions Trophy with all our games at a single venue. We probably don't have the ability to create a champion team for all conditions, but we should be able to put together a team that is purpose fit for one condition. We need to start planning now.

List of ICC title winners

• March 1992: Pakistan (ODI World Cup)
• March 1996: Sri Lanka (ODI World Cup)
• November 1998: South Africa (ICC Knockout Trophy/Champions Trophy)
• June 1999: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• October 2000: New Zealand (Champions Trophy)
• September 2002: India and Sri Lanka (co-champions, Champions Trophy)
• March 2003: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• September 2004: West Indies (Champions Trophy)
• November 2006: Australia (Champions Trophy)
• April 2007: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• September 2007: India (T20 World Cup)
• June 2009: Pakistan (T20 World Cup)
• October 2009: Australia (Champions Trophy)
• May 2010: England (T20 World Cup)
• April 2011: India (ODI World Cup)
• October 2012: West Indies (T20 World Cup)
• June 2013: India (Champions Trophy)
• April 2014: Sri Lanka (T20 World Cup)
• March 2015: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• April 2016: West Indies (T20 World Cup)
• June 2017: Pakistan (Champions Trophy)
• July 2019: England (ODI World Cup)
• June 2021: New Zealand (WTC Final)
• November 2021: Australia (T20 World Cup)
• November 2022: England (T20 World Cup)
• June 2023: Australia (WTC Final)
• November 2023: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• June 2024: India (T20 World Cup)
• March 2025: India (Champions Trophy)

Events since the last ICC trophy victory

• India – 0
• Australia – 2
• England – 4
• New Zealand – 6
• Pakistan – 8
• West Indies – 9
• Sri Lanka – 11
• South Africa – 26

 

[dildilpak]

Putting this list together, I was pleasantly surprised at how vibrant the ten-year period from Oct 2012 - Sep 2021 was with seven different winners in eight different ICC events with only West Indies winning twice.

 

[sweep_shot]

Putting this list together, I was pleasantly surprised at how vibrant the ten-year period from Oct 2012 - Sep 2021 was with seven different winners in eight different ICC events with only West Indies winning twice.

Yes.

It is because there are more ICC events now compared to before. There is at least one ICC event every single year. There are two this year (CT and WTC).

I personally think there are too many ICC events and it makes things boring.

 

[dildilpak]

Yes.

It is because there are more ICC events now compared to before. There is at least one ICC event every single year. There are two this year (CT and WTC).

I personally think there are too many ICC events and it makes things boring.

Agree, we have had 7 ICC finals in the last four years! It is getting ridiculous!

 

[sweep_shot]

Agree, we have had 7 ICC finals in the last four years! It is getting ridiculous!

This is what happens when ICC gets run by greedy paindoos.

I wouldn't be surprised if they add in more ICC events.

 

[Justcrazy]

Not anytime soon.

The system in place will not allow Pakistan win tournaments for long time.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Not anytime soon.

The system in place will not allow Pakistan win tournaments for long time.

Pakistan won a tournament with the same system in 2017 because an honest trier was in charge

 

[JaDed]

Lol the troll comes to every thread thinking to troll but gets trolled.

 

[Hellion]

Pakistan really should be winning an ICC trophy soon.

The Big 3 are the only ones with more talent and resources.

Let's look at the other Top 10 cricketing nations

South Africa

Held back by their racial history - unequal access to resources means black cricketers are not particularly skilled with exceptions and transformation targets means that you don't get the best from the available talent pool. Also hurts team cohesion . I'm convinced this will never be solved. SA cricket is cursed.

New Zealand

Meticulously planned outfits but talent pool is limited because of population and rugby being #1 sport . They never have bench strength and 1 injury can destroy an ICC campaign

Sri Lanka and West Indies

Don't have Pakistan's talent pool or financial resources

Afghanistan

Will always be hampered by their history and will never see cricket at home and generally don't have the infrastructure etc.

Bangladesh

Genetically extremely limited as noted by their own former coaches - almost negligible talent per capita, no marketable players at all in their past or in the future because of complete lack of aesthetics and extremely low IQ mental midgets who can't even maximise whatever little talent they possess in their weak bodies.


Apart from Big 3, Pakistan should be winning more often than the rest.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Pakistan really should be winning an ICC trophy soon.

The Big 3 are the only ones with more talent and resources.

Let's look at the other Top 10 cricketing nations

South Africa

Held back by their racial history - unequal access to resources means black cricketers are not particularly skilled with exceptions and transformation targets means that you don't get the best from the available talent pool. Also hurts team cohesion . I'm convinced this will never be solved. SA cricket is cursed.

New Zealand

Meticulously planned outfits but talent pool is limited because of population and rugby being #1 sport . They never have bench strength and 1 injury can destroy an ICC campaign

Sri Lanka and West Indies

Don't have Pakistan's talent pool or financial resources

Afghanistan

Will always be hampered by their history and will never see cricket at home and generally don't have the infrastructure etc.

Bangladesh

Genetically extremely limited as noted by their own former coaches - almost negligible talent per capita, no marketable players at all in their past or in the future and extremely low IQ mental midgets who can't even maximise whatever little talent they possess in their weak bodies.


Apart from Big 3, Pakistan should be winning more often than the rest.

South Africa have reached WTC final, ICC T20 final and the CT semi final
They are doing ok overall. Probably better than expected.

 

[Hellion]

South Africa have reached WTC final, ICC T20 final and the CT semi final
They are doing ok overall. Probably better than expected.

They haven't won anything though have they ?

In crucial matches , they can't afford the kind of performance that Bavuma gave in that semifinal.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

They haven't won anything though have they ?

In crucial matches , they can't afford the kind of performance that Bavuma gave in that semifinal.

Winning will come eventually. If you are consistently in the mix you will catch a break at some point. Just look at India. They hadnt won anything either till 9 months ago.

 

[Hellion]

Winning will come eventually. If you are consistently in the mix you will catch a break at some point. Just look at India. They hadnt won anything either till 9 months ago.

Even today , a Saffer domestic side was penalised for not playing 3 black players despite the coach being a non white Robin Peterson..

Player development and selection in SA cricket is a rank nightmare.

They are forced to play different teams in bilaterals to meet targets . How can you build consistency and cohesion in a side when the best side comes together, if at all, at the nth hour of an ICC event ?

 

[sweep_shot]

South Africa have reached WTC final, ICC T20 final and the CT semi final
They are doing ok overall. Probably better than expected.

South Africa could've won many trophies.

1999 WC, for example. They had it in the bag till that Donald's run-out.

 

[saimayubera]

Winning will come eventually. If you are consistently in the mix you will catch a break at some point. Just look at India. They hadnt won anything either till 9 months ago.

India had 5 ICC trophies before 9 months ago which made them joint 2nd with WI.

 

[pakistani pride]

Pakistan won a tournament with the same system in 2017 because an honest trier was in charge

2017 had some serious players and class.

 

[Savak]

Lol at Pakistan's quest for the next ICC trophy. How about starting with small baby steps like not getting whitewashed by Bangladesh at home for starters or not losing to WI as a start. When you are confident enough that you can whitewash lower tier teams, then you aim for the next step i.e. Big 5 teams.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

India had 5 ICC trophies before 9 months ago which made them joint 2nd with WI.

We are talking about current era. Current era South Africa despite quota system has somehow achieved a stellar record across formats. Not yet winning anything can't be viewed as the be all and end all.

 

[Shehmir]

When do you see Pak winning another ICC trophy? Going by past history, Pak tends to win an ICC trophy every 10 events. By that yardstick, we should be close to our next trophy. The next T20 WC in India should be perfect - we will have similar advantage to India this Champions Trophy with all our games at a single venue. We probably don't have the ability to create a champion team for all conditions, but we should be able to put together a team that is purpose fit for one condition. We need to start planning now.

List of ICC title winners

• March 1992: Pakistan (ODI World Cup)
• March 1996: Sri Lanka (ODI World Cup)
• November 1998: South Africa (ICC Knockout Trophy/Champions Trophy)
• June 1999: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• October 2000: New Zealand (Champions Trophy)
• September 2002: India and Sri Lanka (co-champions, Champions Trophy)
• March 2003: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• September 2004: West Indies (Champions Trophy)
• November 2006: Australia (Champions Trophy)
• April 2007: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• September 2007: India (T20 World Cup)
• June 2009: Pakistan (T20 World Cup)
• October 2009: Australia (Champions Trophy)
• May 2010: England (T20 World Cup)
• April 2011: India (ODI World Cup)
• October 2012: West Indies (T20 World Cup)
• June 2013: India (Champions Trophy)
• April 2014: Sri Lanka (T20 World Cup)
• March 2015: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• April 2016: West Indies (T20 World Cup)
• June 2017: Pakistan (Champions Trophy)
• July 2019: England (ODI World Cup)
• June 2021: New Zealand (WTC Final)
• November 2021: Australia (T20 World Cup)
• November 2022: England (T20 World Cup)
• June 2023: Australia (WTC Final)
• November 2023: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• June 2024: India (T20 World Cup)
• March 2025: India (Champions Trophy)

Events since the last ICC trophy victory

• India – 0
• Australia – 2
• England – 4
• New Zealand – 6
• Pakistan – 8
• West Indies – 9
• Sri Lanka – 11
• South Africa – 26

Our fielding standards are well behind & with less than 1 year left in T20 WC I dont think we have realistic chance to win next one as well

 

[Shehmir]

2017 had some serious players and class.

Even than at the start of tournament when Pakistan lost to India cricket seems to be at downfall but suddenly they picked up their level & won the tournament

 

[Savak]

The key to winning an ICC event is young hungry blood. The 2017 CT happened because of Amir, Shadab, Hasan Ali, Fakhar Zaman and Sarfaraz's captaincy. The team was hungry to perform and deliver and a lot of players wanted to make their mark in front of the world.

Sadly the likes of Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Shadab, Fakhar, Hasan Ali and co are now past it, they no longer have the same fire, motivation to prove something to the world hence why every defeat is treated as koi baat nahi. Our cricket board has also not held these players accountable for a while.

Need to introduce young players

 

[saimayubera]

2017 CT was more of a case of everything coming together like Euro 2004 for Greece or the one in the 90s Denmark won. Or for that matter the 83 WC win or the 04 CT win.

Great achievement but that was a lightning in the bottle moment. That same team then performed really badly in the 2018 AC a year later losing twice to India and then Bangladesh and got out in the first round in 2019 WC (even here they had a good run of matches at then end but unlike CT you need to be good for longer).

This is unlike the 09 T20 WC winning team cause that team was genuinely good. They had a first mover advantage in T20s and had dynamic players like Afridi, Ajmal, Gul etc and did well in the first four T20 WCs, reaching the KOs of each.

Similarly the 92 WC team was good consisting of players who had gone to the 87 semi and a lot of them went to the 96 QF and 99 final.

Those are the two teams Pak should look to emulate.

 

[Devadwal]

When do you see Pak winning another ICC trophy? Going by past history, Pak tends to win an ICC trophy every 10 events. By that yardstick, we should be close to our next trophy. The next T20 WC in India should be perfect - we will have similar advantage to India this Champions Trophy with all our games at a single venue. We probably don't have the ability to create a champion team for all conditions, but we should be able to put together a team that is purpose fit for one condition. We need to start planning now.

Where do you get the Pakistani will have similar advantage to play at the single venue in the next World T20?

2026 World T20 is co- hosted by India and Lanka so obviously there will be 3-4 venues in the lanka to host the matches unlike Dubai who was not original co- host.

In Lanka all other's team will Play not just pakistan .

So Pakistan will likely to to Play at different venues with other's team.

 

[Mockingbird]

Pakistan really should be winning an ICC trophy soon.

The Big 3 are the only ones with more talent and resources.

Let's look at the other Top 10 cricketing nations

South Africa

Held back by their racial history - unequal access to resources means black cricketers are not particularly skilled with exceptions and transformation targets means that you don't get the best from the available talent pool. Also hurts team cohesion . I'm convinced this will never be solved. SA cricket is cursed.

New Zealand

Meticulously planned outfits but talent pool is limited because of population and rugby being #1 sport . They never have bench strength and 1 injury can destroy an ICC campaign

Sri Lanka and West Indies

Don't have Pakistan's talent pool or financial resources

Afghanistan

Will always be hampered by their history and will never see cricket at home and generally don't have the infrastructure etc.

Bangladesh

Genetically extremely limited as noted by their own former coaches - almost negligible talent per capita, no marketable players at all in their past or in the future because of complete lack of aesthetics and extremely low IQ mental midgets who can't even maximise whatever little talent they possess in their weak bodies.


Apart from Big 3, Pakistan should be winning more often than the rest.

The key to winning an ICC event is young hungry blood. The 2017 CT happened because of Amir, Shadab, Hasan Ali, Fakhar Zaman and Sarfaraz's captaincy. The team was hungry to perform and deliver and a lot of players wanted to make their mark in front of the world.

Sadly the likes of Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Shadab, Fakhar, Hasan Ali and co are now past it, they no longer have the same fire, motivation to prove something to the world hence why every defeat is treated as koi baat nahi. Our cricket board has also not held these players accountable for a while.

Need to introduce young players

Good point but I do wonder why there is no fire in their belly especially when we see guys like Kohli, Rohit, Smith, Root, Williamson still performing for their national team in all major tournaments

 

[dildilpak]

Where do you get the Pakistani will have similar advantage to play at the single venue in the next World T20?

2026 World T20 is co- hosted by India and Lanka so obviously there will be 3-4 venues in the lanka to host the matches unlike Dubai who was not original co- host.

In Lanka all other's team will Play not just pakistan .

So Pakistan will likely to to Play at different venues with other's team.

Good point. I didn’t realize that.

 

[deltexas]

Not anytime soon.

The system in place will not allow Pakistan win tournaments for long time.

Okay. Time for some logic and not false victimization. 2026 t20 WC has 4 groups of 5 teams each.
Ind and pak will be in one group no matter how much any cribs about. Plus bcci and icc will want to make sure ind reaches SF atleast for TV revenue and event profitability. So they will have as weak as possible the remaining 3 teams to allow Ind the max chance of qualifying and not have any upsets. So gives pak a great chance of easily qualifying by beating the other 3 weak teams. Problem is pak has a pretty high probability of losing to one of those just like it lost to USA recently.

So dont blame the system when infact it makes it easier for pak to go to SFs. Blame the mediocre below average pak cricket team and its players.

 

[Justcrazy]

Okay. Time for some logic and not false victimization. 2026 t20 WC has 4 groups of 5 teams each.
Ind and pak will be in one group no matter how much any cribs about. Plus bcci and icc will want to make sure ind reaches SF atleast for TV revenue and event profitability. So they will have as weak as possible the remaining 3 teams to allow Ind the max chance of qualifying and not have any upsets. So gives pak a great chance of easily qualifying by beating the other 3 weak teams. Problem is pak has a pretty high probability of losing to one of those just like it lost to USA recently.

So dont blame the system when infact it makes it easier for pak to go to SFs. Blame the mediocre below average pak cricket team and its players.

brother players are also part of that system.

There are just too many holes in Pakistan cricket, its highly improbable that Pakistan will be able to plug them all or majority of them. You can win a game here and there but you cannot win tournaments with so many loopholes and short time fix.

You will be surprised that several times I have been shocked with the playing XI Pakistan used to play , not only these days but even in 1990s . It looked as if they do not even plan for the conditions.

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan won a tournament with the same system in 2017 because an honest trier was in charge

Yes they won, but how many of those players were developed further and are playing now?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Fingers crossed, but I have a strong feeling that 2077 will be our year.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Yes they won, but how many of those players were developed further and are playing now?

Misbah, Babar destroyed them

Sarfaraz and Mickey were building the team

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Misbah, Babar destroyed them

Sarfaraz and Mickey were building the team

What did they do, hand them a pack of cigarettes and ask them to finish it one sitting?

PAK players have only themselves to blame for failing to evolve. No coach or player, however good or bad he is, can be blamed for another player's mediocre performances. Simple fact about PAK players is that they lack character. It's not that they don't have talent. How can anyone who saw Hasan Ali bowl in the 2017 CT say he doesn't have talent? But what happened then? Answer: he didn't have the character to keep evolving or keep being dangerous when he wasn't bowling on helpful pitches. The same is true for current crop of PAK pacers and batters. They don't have the character to improve or bounce back from adversity. Alot of players go through rough patches, injuries or simply getting found out. The best bounce back by becoming even better versions of themselves. How awful Pakistan are in the facets of fielding and fitness also reflects on their lack of character. Elite professional athletes around the world are known for their consistency and ability to do the basic things well. PAK players can't even do that.

 

[Justcrazy]

Misbah, Babar destroyed them

Sarfaraz and Mickey were building the team

Who brought Misbah and Babar ?

 

[Justcrazy]

What did they do, hand them a pack of cigarettes and ask them to finish it one sitting?

PAK players have only themselves to blame for failing to evolve. No coach or player, however good or bad he is, can be blamed for another player's mediocre performances. Simple fact about PAK players is that they lack character. It's not that they don't have talent. How can anyone who saw Hasan Ali bowl in the 2017 CT say he doesn't have talent? But what happened then? Answer: he didn't have the character to keep evolving or keep being dangerous when he wasn't bowling on helpful pitches. The same is true for current crop of PAK pacers and batters. They don't have the character to improve or bounce back from adversity. Alot of players go through rough patches, injuries or simply getting found out. The best bounce back by becoming even better versions of themselves. How awful Pakistan are in the facets of fielding and fitness also reflects on their lack of character. Elite professional athletes around the world are known for their consistency and ability to do the basic things well. PAK players can't even do that.

Yes that is another point.

As you said I do not see any Pakistan player working on skills and improving. For example look at Axar Patel , he is a full bowler and now he has developed into a solid middle order batter. Unless you work on skills and develop , you will not have multi skilled players in the team.

For example why Pakistan did not tell fakhar , saud etc to bowl 3- 4 overs each game and develop themselves. They can add balance to the team.

 

[RyanRyan10]

What did they do, hand them a pack of cigarettes and ask them to finish it one sitting?

PAK players have only themselves to blame for failing to evolve. No coach or player, however good or bad he is, can be blamed for another player's mediocre performances. Simple fact about PAK players is that they lack character. It's not that they don't have talent. How can anyone who saw Hasan Ali bowl in the 2017 CT say he doesn't have talent? But what happened then? Answer: he didn't have the character to keep evolving or keep being dangerous when he wasn't bowling on helpful pitches. The same is true for current crop of PAK pacers and batters. They don't have the character to improve or bounce back from adversity. Alot of players go through rough patches, injuries or simply getting found out. The best bounce back by becoming even better versions of themselves. How awful Pakistan are in the facets of fielding and fitness also reflects on their lack of character. Elite professional athletes around the world are known for their consistency and ability to do the basic things well. PAK players can't even do that.

Winning an ICC tournament doesn't hinge on having a squad packed with elite players. It's about having players who demonstrate courage and are adept at handling pressure. While Misbah, during his tenure, did well in test matches, his decision to include Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal in the T20 team, despite their obvious decline, derailed the momentum. Under Sarfaraz, the team boasted a stellar record of 29-5 in T20Is before the SL series. An year later, Rizwan was promoted as an opener in T20s. He and Babar started playing an outdated brand of cricket. Amir wasn't supported which led to him retiring again.

Ramiz Raja had given Babar full power but he failed to build a team. Imad Wasim was dropped, due to his perceived threat to Babar's captaincy and a below par Nawaz was brought in. The pace trio was overrated despite achieving little, and Pakistan failed to develop spinners because of them.

Agree with some of the points regarding lack of professionalism among Pakistan players and them not working to improve their game.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Who brought Misbah and Babar ?

everyone takes some wrong decisions. System needs to improve but honest captains like Sarfaraz have achieved success despite the system

Even Misbah did a fine job in tests during tough times for Pakistan cricket

Babar had no vision

 

[Rajdeep]

Yes.

It is because there are more ICC events now compared to before. There is at least one ICC event every single year. There are two this year (CT and WTC).

I personally think there are too many ICC events and it makes things boring.

That is because there are hardly any board organized multi nation series like before. ICC have taken all the tournaments under their wings and organize 1 each year under ICC banner. All those Sahara Cup, Sharjah Cup, Singer Cup, Titan Cup, Hero Cup etc are gone. I don't mind it actually as teams play bilateral cricket all year preparing for these tournaments organized by governing body (ICC/ACC). Its just that we as fans should not confuse every ICC tournament as world cup.

Same is the case with football. All multinational events are with FIFA/UEFA. However there is only one world cup happens every four years.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

Winning an ICC tournament doesn't hinge on having a squad packed with elite players. It's about having players who demonstrate courage and are adept at handling pressure. While Misbah, during his tenure, did well in test matches, his decision to include Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal in the T20 team, despite their obvious decline, derailed the momentum. Under Sarfaraz, the team boasted a stellar record of 29-5 in T20Is before the SL series. An year later, Rizwan was promoted as an opener in T20s. He and Babar started playing an outdated brand of cricket. Amir wasn't supported which led to him retiring again.

Ramiz Raja had given Babar full power but he failed to build a team. Imad Wasim was dropped, due to his perceived threat to Babar's captaincy and a below par Nawaz was brought in. The pace trio was overrated despite achieving little, and Pakistan failed to develop spinners because of them.

Agree with some of the points regarding lack of professionalism among Pakistan players and them not working to improve their game.

Ramiz Raja had given Babar full power but he failed to build a team.

Indian perspective here. Under babar, pak reached 2021 t20 wc semis, 2022 t20 wc final and 2022 asia cup final albiet all in t20 format. 2022 t20 wc final, had the batters been sensible looking to score 150 pakistan would have won. Had shaheen afridi not been injured, the match would have been way closer with a remote chance of pak winning.

During this period, pakistan had beaten india twice in t20's in 2021 and 2022 asia cup. 2022 t20 world cup, had it not been for kohlis magical innings Pakistan would have won that too.

I think, pakistan has good chance if they can pick the right team and back the captain . The captain matters here, salman ali agha seems to be a positive guy with intent who can make the difference.

 

[TheSultan]

Pakistan are so far behind the rest of the world in white ball, we should concentrate more on how we are going to keep up than thinking of winning anything.

Step 1 remove the cause of being so far behind. Remove Babar and Rizwan.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Winning an ICC tournament doesn't hinge on having a squad packed with elite players. It's about having players who demonstrate courage and are adept at handling pressure. While Misbah, during his tenure, did well in test matches, his decision to include Ahmed Shehzad and Umar Akmal in the T20 team, despite their obvious decline, derailed the momentum. Under Sarfaraz, the team boasted a stellar record of 29-5 in T20Is before the SL series. An year later, Rizwan was promoted as an opener in T20s. He and Babar started playing an outdated brand of cricket. Amir wasn't supported which led to him retiring again.

Ramiz Raja had given Babar full power but he failed to build a team. Imad Wasim was dropped, due to his perceived threat to Babar's captaincy and a below par Nawaz was brought in. The pace trio was overrated despite achieving little, and Pakistan failed to develop spinners because of them.

Agree with some of the points regarding lack of professionalism among Pakistan players and them not working to improve their game.

Inability to handle pressure is also linked with lack of character. For me, you are looking at the problem through a very narrow lens. It's never about one person or a handful of people. That's just something fans do to make themselves feel better because scapegoating someone is much easier than actually examining the very boring, real reasons for our problems: like a screwed up FC structure that gets revamped every season, no consistency in nature of domestic pitches, high churn rate of coaches & chief-selectors- which is also linked to there being no long-term vision etc. etc. I could go on all day.

I also feel like you are looking past the role that numerous chief-selectors have played in favoring/not favoring players by putting all the blame on Misbah and Ramiz. I'm no fan of Ramiz but Project Babar had been put into effect in 2019, long before he came into power. Similarly, you're ignoring someone like Mohammad Wasim who is the one who probably has the biggest hand in sidelining Imad Wasim and very clearly favoring Nawaz over him.

 

[Justcrazy]

everyone takes some wrong decisions. System needs to improve but honest captains like Sarfaraz have achieved success despite the system

Even Misbah did a fine job in tests during tough times for Pakistan cricket

Babar had no vision

So , you agree system made them captain , that was exactly what I am telling. The vision of board is much more important than captain .

 

[RyanRyan10]

Ramiz Raja had given Babar full power but he failed to build a team.

Indian perspective here. Under babar, pak reached 2021 t20 wc semis, 2022 t20 wc final and 2022 asia cup final albiet all in t20 format. 2022 t20 wc final, had the batters been sensible looking to score 150 pakistan would have won. Had shaheen afridi not been injured, the match would have been way closer with a remote chance of pak winning.

During this period, pakistan had beaten india twice in t20's in 2021 and 2022 asia cup. 2022 t20 world cup, had it not been for kohlis magical innings Pakistan would have won that too.

I think, pakistan has good chance if they can pick the right team and back the captain . The captain matters here, salman ali agha seems to be a positive guy with intent who can make the difference.

Winning 2 matches (and losing 5) against India is an achievement for a team like Pakistan? You are talking about Pakistan not Bangladesh. Reaching the 2022 Asia Cup final is also not an achievement, especially given that they lost three out of the six matches. Their path to the T20 World Cup 2022 final was influenced by rain interruption in SA vs Zim match (SA were 54-0 in 3 overs chasing 67 in 7). Under Babar, Pakistan also had subpar performances in the 2023 WC, 2023 AC and 2024 T20 WC and his test record was also underwhelming. Pak can definitely improve under a better captain but Babar was a poor captain and made the team weaker.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Inability to handle pressure is also linked with lack of character. For me, you are looking at the problem through a very narrow lens. It's never about one person or a handful of people. That's just something fans do to make themselves feel better because scapegoating someone is much easier than actually examining the very boring, real reasons for our problems: like a screwed up FC structure that gets revamped every season, no consistency in nature of domestic pitches, high churn rate of coaches & chief-selectors- which is also linked to there being no long-term vision etc. etc. I could go on all day.

I also feel like you are looking past the role that numerous chief-selectors have played in favoring/not favoring players by putting all the blame on Misbah and Ramiz. I'm no fan of Ramiz but Project Babar had been put into effect in 2019, long before he came into power. Similarly, you're ignoring someone like Mohammad Wasim who is the one who probably has the biggest hand in sidelining Imad Wasim and very clearly favoring Nawaz over him.

The system undeniably has issues and deserves significant blame. However, a better captain, coach, and selection committee can work wonders and help a team punch above their weight. Take the combination of Sarfaraz and Mickey during the two ICC events – they won one of them and came close to the semifinals in the other. Similarly, Pakistan under Misbah's leadership were seen as a quality test side.

Honestly, i don't understand how Pakistan players struggle to adapt their game once they are figured out. Babar Azam himself showed great promise in his early days, but instead of becoming more aggressive, he slowed down.

 

[RyanRyan10]

So , you agree system made them captain , that was exactly what I am telling. The vision of board is much more important than captain .

Pakistan may face challenges in consistently performing at the top level due to systemic issues. However they can win an icc event if they peak at the right time and play with right intent, taking advantage of opportunities when stronger opponents face off days. To achieve this, the team requires better leadership to bring out the best performance.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The system undeniably has issues and deserves significant blame. However, a better captain, coach, and selection committee can work wonders and help a team punch above their weight. Take the combination of Sarfaraz and Mickey during the two ICC events – they won one of them and came close to the semifinals in the other. Similarly, Pakistan under Misbah's leadership were seen as a quality test side.

Honestly, i don't understand how Pakistan players struggle to adapt their game once they are figured out. Babar Azam himself showed great promise in his early days, but instead of becoming more aggressive, he slowed down.

Sarfraz was not the great captain you are making him out to be. He was competent in white-ball for Pakistan standards but his incessant shouting behind the stumps and lack of patience (constantly going to bowlers after they got hit for a boundary) was not something you see from a good captain. He regularly struggled to keep his cool. Infact, Sarfraz's run as test captain showed he was actually a fairly poor captain as he sunk Pakistan's unbeaten run in UAE losing series to Sri Lanka and New Zelaland. Pakistan's performances in the 2017 CT and 2019 WC had alot of do with some modicum of stability and consistency in selection processes during that period. Inzi as chief-selector, Mickey as head-coach, Sarfraz as captain. Steve Rixon as fielding coach made a massive difference to the team, especially in the CT. PCB being PCB ofcourse didn't pay him on time and ran him off too. Guys were being given consistent opportunities and had clearly defined roles within the team. And many of them were settled in their positions too. That team also had a good mix of experience and talent on the rise. Hafeez was enjoying a good late career turnaround. Malik was good for a short period. Amir stepped up in ICC events, and even Wahab did well in the 2019 WC. Above all, all the players whose form has fallen off a cliff now were key pillars of the side and were performing.

Ultimately, it all comes back to the lack of character of these players. They didn't have what it took to take over and go to the next level. They either regressed or stayed in the same place. And the game left them behind.

 

[Katwalindian]

Not anytime soon.

The system in place will not allow Pakistan win tournaments for long time.

What system system? If ball stucked in hasan ali hands Pakistan would have been champion in 2021. So he dropped the catch because of system?

 

[UP]

Gotta fix the chaotic country called Pakistan first to win trophies. And then give the system 15 years.

 

[Adiram]

Even than at the start of tournament when Pakistan lost to India cricket seems to be at downfall but suddenly they picked up their level & won the tournament

2017 win was an absolute fluke and very much evident in subsequent matches. Once in a while it may happen but majority of the times, at least 80%, PAK cannot have such wins over IND team. At least for next 5 years.

 

[saimayubera]

2017 win was an absolute fluke and very much evident in subsequent matches. Once in a while it may happen but majority of the times, at least 80%, PAK cannot have such wins over IND team. At least for next 5 years.

Never tbh.

India has upskilled a lot since 2017, especially regarding the bowling.

 

[Shehmir]

What system system? If ball stucked in hasan ali hands Pakistan would have been champion in 2021. So he dropped the catch because of system?

Agree. Even in CT17 which we eventually won there was a talk after losing first game against India badly there was lot of discussion on system.

 

[Shehmir]

Agree. Even in CT17 which we eventually won there was a talk after losing first game against India badly there was lot of discussion on system.

Pakistan cricket is always unpredictable & depends of individual brillances for victories Hopefully there is no politics in the teqm now but frequency in captaincy raises concer

 

[BouncerGuy]

Seeing the PCB management and selection, this quest will remain quests for years to come.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

Winning 2 matches (and losing 5) against India is an achievement for a team like Pakistan? You are talking about Pakistan not Bangladesh. Reaching the 2022 Asia Cup final is also not an achievement, especially given that they lost three out of the six matches. Their path to the T20 World Cup 2022 final was influenced by rain interruption in SA vs Zim match (SA were 54-0 in 3 overs chasing 67 in 7). Under Babar, Pakistan also had subpar performances in the 2023 WC, 2023 AC and 2024 T20 WC and his test record was also underwhelming. Pak can definitely improve under a better captain but Babar was a poor captain and made the team weaker.

Having watched the 90's pak and the subsequent decline, winning 2 matches is definetly a good achivement considering its a decade and half overall domination against PAK(no disrespect). Pak can improve under a better captain for sure. playing 2022 t20 final and 2021 t20 semis under babar was by no means poor. If you check the world cup 2019 standing and 2023 standing of pak, it looks similar.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

When do you see Pak winning another ICC trophy? Going by past history, Pak tends to win an ICC trophy every 10 events. By that yardstick, we should be close to our next trophy. The next T20 WC in India should be perfect - we will have similar advantage to India this Champions Trophy with all our games at a single venue. We probably don't have the ability to create a champion team for all conditions, but we should be able to put together a team that is purpose fit for one condition. We need to start planning now.

List of ICC title winners

• March 1992: Pakistan (ODI World Cup)
• March 1996: Sri Lanka (ODI World Cup)
• November 1998: South Africa (ICC Knockout Trophy/Champions Trophy)
• June 1999: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• October 2000: New Zealand (Champions Trophy)
• September 2002: India and Sri Lanka (co-champions, Champions Trophy)
• March 2003: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• September 2004: West Indies (Champions Trophy)
• November 2006: Australia (Champions Trophy)
• April 2007: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• September 2007: India (T20 World Cup)
• June 2009: Pakistan (T20 World Cup)
• October 2009: Australia (Champions Trophy)
• May 2010: England (T20 World Cup)
• April 2011: India (ODI World Cup)
• October 2012: West Indies (T20 World Cup)
• June 2013: India (Champions Trophy)
• April 2014: Sri Lanka (T20 World Cup)
• March 2015: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• April 2016: West Indies (T20 World Cup)
• June 2017: Pakistan (Champions Trophy)
• July 2019: England (ODI World Cup)
• June 2021: New Zealand (WTC Final)
• November 2021: Australia (T20 World Cup)
• November 2022: England (T20 World Cup)
• June 2023: Australia (WTC Final)
• November 2023: Australia (ODI World Cup)
• June 2024: India (T20 World Cup)
• March 2025: India (Champions Trophy)

Events since the last ICC trophy victory

• India – 0
• Australia – 2
• England – 4
• New Zealand – 6
• Pakistan – 8
• West Indies – 9
• Sri Lanka – 11
• South Africa – 26

Pakistan's next best chance is Odi World cup in South Africa. Simple reason is Pakistan pace attack is suited to Australian & South African bouncy tracks. For Example Haris Rauf is good on such tracks but is quite useless on flat batting surfaces like the ones in India. Similarly Shaheen also does well on such tracks. Great fast bowlers perform on all kinds of pitches but unfortunately we don't have those. But in South Africa our Pace attack will do well. if we play Fakhar, Saim, Babar, Kamran Ghulam, Rizwan, Salman we can have an attacking opening pair and decent middle order. We still need to find a spin strike bowler and an allrounder.
There are still gaps that need to be filled.

 

[Sachin fan]

They haven't won anything though have they ?

In crucial matches , they can't afford the kind of performance that Bavuma gave in that semifinal.

Every single south africa team has choked since their introduction to cricket. Making this a race issue is hilarious. Was Klusner a racial quota? What about Donald?

Klaseen and Miller not able to score 26 of 27 balls with 6 wickets in hand in 2024 final has nothing to do with racial quotas.

But you won't call out their "performance" as their skin is white.

South African choking has nothing to do with racial quotas.

 

[kron]

Even today , a Saffer domestic side was penalised for not playing 3 black players despite the coach being a non white Robin Peterson..

Player development and selection in SA cricket is a rank nightmare.

They are forced to play different teams in bilaterals to meet targets . How can you build consistency and cohesion in a side when the best side comes together, if at all, at the nth hour of an ICC event ?

Even if they got to pick on merit they will still choke cause guess what till about 2003 they could pick as they chose without quotas. They still lost crucial games

Perennial chokers.


In fact they did way better in the last 5 years compared to the their 90s era where they dominated in bilaterals

 

[Azaad]

First target should be to consistently qualify for knockout stages in ICC tourneys
Play enough semis & finals - and Pakistan could eventually win 1

 

[Hellion]

Every single south africa team has choked since their introduction to cricket. Making this a race issue is hilarious. Was Klusner a racial quota? What about Donald?

Klaseen and Miller not able to score 26 of 27 balls with 6 wickets in hand in 2024 final has nothing to do with racial quotas.

But you won't call out their "performance" as their skin is white.

South African choking has nothing to do with racial quotas.

Their white ball batters have been questionable even in the past - Kirsten , Kallis to name a couple.

There is no doubt that Jansen was the worst performer in the semifinal

That doesn't disprove my point.

Both facts can exist at the same time.

South Africa's lack of aggressive white ball batters has been their undoing in white ball cricket for years and it's been why they have never won a World Cup World T20

 

[Justcrazy]

What system system? If ball stucked in hasan ali hands Pakistan would have been champion in 2021. So he dropped the catch because of system?

Yes.

Brother there is No ifs and buts in cricket.
We have discussions on what happened, and here the fact is Pakistan lost the game.

I can say If As if and Amir were not banned , Pakistan would have won 2011 WC , but that does not change the fact.

 

[Savak]

I would also like to add for a team like Pakistan whenever they have won ICC events, its mostly been because players have found confidence and form at the right time in the tournament and the team has also gelled, clicked at the right time. All our ICC event wins i.e. 1992 ODI WC, 2009 T-20 WC Win and ICC CT ODI win in 2017 followed the same pattern where we started off disastrously to the point where the players started getting bashed left, right, centre and when 1-2 senior under performing players were dropped for new blood, one good win and then the team never looked back.

Rarely have i seen a Pakistani team coming into an ICC event in good form and peaking early successfully winning the tournament in the end. In order for a Pakistani team to win an ICC event the format has to be such that it allows for early hiccups and for the team to eventually recover from early hammerings. Sadly i don't see the ICC or BCCI allowing the Pakistani team this luxury where they always wilt under pressure of expectations but later on recover when they are written off and no longer carrying the pressures of expectations.

 

[ads101]

Really we should forget about trophies and focus on bilateral series and building a strong team. There’s so much pressure in these tournaments despite Pakistan being a major underdog. You’d get better results having no expectations for the team and allowing them to just treat it as a free hit. You need too much luck to win, which is natural given that we aren’t a top team. Pressure of winning really should only be there if you are truly the best or amongst the best coming into the tournament.

I want us to try out different spinners, including in PSL and find a spinner or two that can genuinely be a threat in home conditions.

I would also like a focus on fielding and fitness. People coming into Pakistani cricket should not be unfit and bad fielders. We made a mistake picking Azam Khan, and I think he is genuinely talented. But it’s enough, we have to make a stand at some point, or we’ll continue to have unfulfilled talented cricketers.

 

[saimayubera]

Yes.

Brother there is No ifs and buts in cricket.
We have discussions on what happened, and here the fact is Pakistan lost the game.

I can say If As if and Amir were not banned , Pakistan would have won 2011 WC , but that does not change the fact.

Lol no.

Asif was a poor white ball bowler.

And Amir had failed to even win AC 2010.

 

[mikeypbadana86]

I would also like to add for a team like Pakistan whenever they have won ICC events, its mostly been because players have found confidence and form at the right time in the tournament and the team has also gelled, clicked at the right time. All our ICC event wins i.e. 1992 ODI WC, 2009 T-20 WC Win and ICC CT ODI win in 2017 followed the same pattern where we started off disastrously to the point where the players started getting bashed left, right, centre and when 1-2 senior under performing players were dropped for new blood, one good win and then the team never looked back.

Rarely have i seen a Pakistani team coming into an ICC event in good form and peaking early successfully winning the tournament in the end. In order for a Pakistani team to win an ICC event the format has to be such that it allows for early hiccups and for the team to eventually recover from early hammerings. Sadly i don't see the ICC or BCCI allowing the Pakistani team this luxury where they always wilt under pressure of expectations but later on recover when they are written off and no longer carrying the pressures of expectations.

They could have been dangerous in 2019 ODI world cup if not for their bad loss against WI which dented net run rate and knocked out pakistan. It was a toss up between pak vs NZ with NZ proceeding with better run rate.

2023 ODI world cup , PAK vs SA was very close with umpire decision not going pak's way. Similar to 2019 ODI world cup. I think, pakistan plays the unpredictable way and should stick to this approach with strong set of players.

They may throw a surprise in 2026 t20 world cup

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

If we clean up our selections and drop deadwood like Agha in t20 and KG we can definitely be competitive. The WTC is too far a bridge for us now our test team needs work but under Rizwan I can certainly see the team doing well in T20 WC 2026 and WC 2027. In the next 5 years I see 2 ICC trophies for us at a minimum.

 

[sugumarrising]

They have a chance to reach semis in 2026 T20 world cup, but test & odi success is a distant dream in the present situation.

 

[RizwanT20Champ]

T20WC 2026 - our best format in familiar conditions. It will be our best chance to win an ICC Trophy in a long time.

 

[Justcrazy]

Lol no.

Asif was a poor white ball bowler.

And Amir had failed to even win AC 2010.

You are not getting the point . Point is we discuss here on what has happened , not what might have happened.