Pakistan are officially out of contention to win World Test Championship 2023 - Who is to blame?

[MenInG]

From ICC release:

Seventh - Pakistan - 38.1% of possible points (out of contention)

Remaining series: None
Best possible percentage finish: 38.1%

With a draw in both Tests of the series against New Zealand in Karachi, Pakistan are no longer in contention to qualify for the World Test Championship final.

An ordinary run of Tests at home, where Pakistan did not win a single Test in the entire WTC cycle, cost them a place in the final.

The full table

 

[JattMaula]

Ramiz Raza is the culprit.

He ordered the death of home pitches which were lively just a season ago.

 

[jnaveen1980]

All the starts were aligned for Pakistan's chance of making the final. Complete turn around.

 

[Concerned]

PCB should be applauded.

Rather play against the heavy weights like Australia, NZ and England and loose than have stat padding series wins.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Ramiz Raza is the culprit.

He ordered the death of home pitches which were lively just a season ago.

The wickets are indeed the key point.
If you want to make the final you have to win your home series and then nick a few away from home.
The wickets were set up to draw with a defensive mindset.
If Pakistan were so worried about the Aus and Eng pacers they should have played on surfaces that turned square from the first morning (Lyon has a poor record in Asia and Leach isn’t Ashwin).

 

[gazza619]

Ramiz Raza is the culprit.

He ordered the death of home pitches which were lively just a season ago.

No The crap players are the culprit.

 

[Savak]

Ramiz Raja, Babar Azam and Saqlain Mushtaq.

Incompetent trio. Only good thing the PDM government did is by getting rid of this buffoon.

 

[gazza619]

Ramiz Raja, Babar Azam and Saqlain Mushtaq.

Incompetent trio. Only good thing the PDM government did is by getting rid of this buffoon.

Yeh and we got some brill appointments in Sethi, Afridi (ran away), K Akmal (ran away) and an online coach in Mickey.

Way to go PDM.

 

[Rana]

Babar Azam and Babar Azam only. His friendship, Dosti yaari with Rizwan also

 

[RyanRyan10]

Fans are blaming flat wickets but England got results on the same wickets, Aus won a test which helped them secure a series win and NZ came close to winning both tests. Pakistan could not win series even in WI & SL. So more results oriented wickets would have resulted in more losses for Pakistan. They might have been ranked 8th instead of 7th.

 

[Buffet]

Fans are blaming flat wickets but England got results on the same wickets, Aus won a test which helped them secure a series win and NZ came close to winning both tests. Pakistan could not win series even in WI & SL. So more results oriented wickets would have resulted in more losses for Pakistan. They might have been ranked 8th instead of 7th.

It would have been better to lose all tests while trying to win.

There is no point in playing tests where you are so scared to lose that you don't even think about winning.

Result oriented pitch may have ended in all loss, but at least you are thinking to win.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pakistan didn’t do that bad. Drew a series against defending champions NZ, like Imam said had the game in the pocket against England a couple of times, and nearly drew the series against Oz. Better selection (Abrar against Oz, Sarfaraz against Oz / Eng) could have brought them over the line.

 

[ElRaja]

the worst ive ever felt as a pak supporter, u can put wc early knock outs down to luck, or losing a one off game to a minnow down to lack of prep, but getting this schedule of teams at home, and then having ur worst season is beyond any kind of logical expectation.

i could write paragraphs about why it happened, but its pointless, i dont see the desire to become a top test side evident at any level of the Pakistan cricket hierarchy, unless a captain, coach and chairman PCB who values test cricket decides to make it a priority i dont see pak being able to compete against the top 3.

 

[Master Blaster]

Qudrat ka nizam !!

 

[Rajdeep]

Pakistan does not take test cricket seriously and I don't think they were ever realistically targeting WTC final. The fact that they brought back half fit Shaheen Afridi to play T20 world cup and then fielded a trundler army for the home test series against England shows where priority lies. If WTC final was their aim, they would preserve their main bowler and would prepare sporting wickets at home.

Going by ex chairman Ramiz Raja's own words, they have apparently left billion dollar Indian team behind just bcoz they won 2 T20 games against them in last 12 months. Not many I suspect care about test cricket in Pakistan setup.

 

[zaidihusain]

Pakistan didn’t do that bad. Drew a series against defending champions NZ, like Imam said had the game in the pocket against England a couple of times, and nearly drew the series against Oz. Better selection (Abrar against Oz, Sarfaraz against Oz / Eng) could have brought them over the line.

Failure to win even a single test match at home out of 8 matches is nothing but humiliation whether you accept it or not. Australia could have won 2-0 (Pak just managed to save Karachi test), England won all 3 test matches quite comprehensively and New Zealand could have won 1-0.

The main reason for Pakistan's performance was poor captaincy, defeatist mindset, wrong team selection & combination, toothless bowling attack with some worst spinners and fake fast bowlers, and Rawalpindi pitch

 

[muqarrab]

Rameez.

Followed by captain and coach.

 

[Ozeirk]

Lack of solid test batsmen and bad pitches

 

[Ryw]

Babar Azam 's clueless captaincy, very poor captain who didn’t know how to use pitch conditions, how to use bowlers, how to set field, how to attack with spinners and attacking field, he should learn from Ben Stokes how to win matches on dead pitches

 

[Nikhil_cric]

No one is to blame particularly. We were told that the new domestic system of 6 teams would produce highly skilled cricketers ready for Test cricket. But the best spinner is Abrar and the best quick is Mohammad Ali.

You just don't have the quality to compete.

 

[Sir Alex]

I think it's down to a single thing. Faith and belief. The current setup needs someone like MS Dhoni who rewrote the way India approached cricket. It made thousands of youngsters sitting in far flung regions to tale up cricket seriously. The team was no longer a caucus of established power centers sharing space and players but one meritocratic. Ganguly was more of a showman who did afew things but also was elitist, egoistic and puthimself ahead of the team. It was MSD who showed true leadership with putting the team in front, putting faith in young plauers and belieivng and backing them up. The succeeding captain built upon this base and transformed the team forever.

SC teams respond well to a strong leadership figure. For Pak it was Imran who instilled that feeling in them which helped them even for a small period after Imran departed. For SL it was Ranatunga. For India it was MSD followed by Virat Kohli.

 

[Savak]

Babar Azam 's clueless captaincy, very poor captain who didn’t know how to use pitch conditions, how to use bowlers, how to set field, how to attack with spinners and attacking field, he should learn from Ben Stokes how to win matches on dead pitches

The captain is the main guy who sets the tone of the team. Babar is just tactically clueless and not good enough as captain to take the team forward.

Pakistan needs a new captain to move forward with a fresh approach

 

[Kianig89]

Rationally the blame is on the skipper Babar, rest we can moan about pitches average players and blah blah

 

[kumjsr]

No one is to blame particularly. We were told that the new domestic system of 6 teams would produce highly skilled cricketers ready for Test cricket. But the best spinner is Abrar and the best quick is Mohammad Ali.

You just don't have the quality to compete.

It's not that bad to go winless for 8-9 matches at home.

Pakistan not winning series is on domestic setup, but Pakistan not winning single test was solely on defeatist attitude of Rameez Raza and clueless/selfish nature of Babar Azam.

 

[Forward Defensive Push]

We should blame ourselves. We lacked good spinners. The batsmen did alright. Bowling has been abysmal. Our star pacers are content with bowling for 4 overs and all the glamour that comes with it. No one wants to do the hard yards anymore..

 

[cricketjoshila]

How many here would support Pakistan having result oriented pitches that supports spinners?

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Fans are blaming flat wickets but England got results on the same wickets, Aus won a test which helped them secure a series win and NZ came close to winning both tests. Pakistan could not win series even in WI & SL. So more results oriented wickets would have resulted in more losses for Pakistan. They might have been ranked 8th instead of 7th.

Not sure I agree.
If you produce poor wickets, the game becomes more of a lottery and the poorer side may well eek out a victory, particularly if it favours the home sides bowling strengths.
The flatter the wicket, the more likely it is that the best side will triumph.

Producing rank turners against Eng and Aus might have given a chance of a victory, even though Pakistan were ostensibly the weaker side.

 

[hitthestump]

Rameez.

Followed by captain and coach.

Agreed. None of these 3 had a clue what they were doing so the situation was hopeless. We are still stuck with Babar but he has more chace when paired with a competent coach.

Ultimately we need Misbah back into the fold for the long formats. He knows how to win test matches.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It's not that bad to go winless for 8-9 matches at home.

Pakistan not winning series is on domestic setup, but Pakistan not winning single test was solely on defeatist attitude of Rameez Raza and clueless/selfish nature of Babar Azam.

Which captain can change the team's fortunes? Genuine question here. If the comparison is with how Stokes turned it around for England, then I'm not sure that's possible for Pakistan.

 

[MenInG]

Which captain can change the team's fortunes? Genuine question here. If the comparison is with how Stokes turned it around for England, then I'm not sure that's possible for Pakistan.

Problem is the selection of the squad as well and the available talent.

For some people, having a captain is like he will play for 10 others and magically win the game.

 

[Savak]

Problem is the selection of the squad as well and the available talent.

For some people, having a captain is like he will play for 10 others and magically win the game.

A poor captain can badly hurt a side with terrible selections, tactically deficient thinking and being three steps behind the opposition even if he posseses a solid squad of players.

Our results in test cricket speak for themselves ie Babar is a terrible captain and on merit does not deserve to retain the captaincy anymore. The guy has no vision for the squad and has no idea what kind of team he wants to build and what he wants to achieve with the squad, where do you see the squad in the next 2-3 years.

A good competent tactically astute captain who atleast gets the basics right and can come up with inventive selections, batting order decisions, field placements, bowling changes can get the maximum out of an average squad.

 

[Savak]

Which captain can change the team's fortunes? Genuine question here. If the comparison is with how Stokes turned it around for England, then I'm not sure that's possible for Pakistan.

How about atleast appointing someone atleast a little better tactically?

 

[Nikhil_cric]

How about atleast appointing someone atleast a little better tactically?

OK fair enough but I think the gains will be marginal for Pakistan tbh. You need better players especially bowlers than the current lot to win Test matches.

 

[dildilpak]

How about atleast appointing someone atleast a little better tactically?

So who is the lurking technical genius in this team?

 

[Bilal Ahmad15]

Well, I know everyone including myself is upset at what Ramiz Raja did with the flat pitches, but actually noyone is to be blamed. Because Pakistan is just not a good or even decent in test cricket, they are a poor test team. Tape Ball cricket is the core of Pakistan cricket society, noyone from the 220 million cares about test cricket, and the results of that are a poor test team that is worse than Sri Lanka, and in a few years time they could possibly be worse than Bangladesh, with T20 Players playing for the test team. I am not trying to be unnecessarily negative, its the reality that must be understood.

And lets say hypothetically if Pakistan "had a chance" of making the WTC Final, the best WTC season from now till the end of time (I'm sure) would've been this season, because they didn't play any of the big teams away. But they couldn't. End of Story. I know its a sad realisation, but Pakistan is not going to make the WTC Final at least for a very long time. Its also good to be aware, that (in general) the players of the next generation will be worse than the players of this generation, and this will keep happening, not for Pakistan but all nations.

Edit: What I am saying is noyone can do anything about it

 

[Bilal Ahmad15]

So who is the lurking technical genius in this team?

Noyone answers this question, and its simple; There is no answer. Whether people like it or not, Babar Azam is probably the best captain Pakistan has.

 

[Saj]

Players, coaching staff, selectors have to accept the blame.

Also the reality is and I have written in a few threads, we are a very weak Test side. Poor tactics, hardly any world class players and an approach that is defensive and safety first.

 

[dildilpak]

As bad as the captaincy is, Babar is the only alternative out there. Sorry to say but none of the players have any brains in their head where test cricket is concerned. They are all good enough only for T20s.

Pakistan’s biggest failure in Test cricket is their bowling. A sub-continent team with no single good spinner is absolutely shameful to see (and no, Abrar is not there yet! ). Plus it’s not like the fast bowling is doing anything great either. India & Pakistan are both missing their bowling spearheads - but look how well India is performing vs how we did against these same teams.

Get one or two good spinners and a decent partner to Shaheen & we will be in business!

 

[leonidas_alexandar]

It is a bit sad really. Even Pakistan's worst critics would not have imagined that they would not be able to win a single test against Aus, Eng and NZL at home. A truly golden opportunity missed.

 

[Savak]

As bad as the captaincy is, Babar is the only alternative out there. Sorry to say but none of the players have any brains in their head where test cricket is concerned. They are all good enough only for T20s.

Pakistan’s biggest failure in Test cricket is their bowling. A sub-continent team with no single good spinner is absolutely shameful to see (and no, Abrar is not there yet! ). Plus it’s not like the fast bowling is doing anything great either. India & Pakistan are both missing their bowling spearheads - but look how well India is performing vs how we did against these same teams.

Get one or two good spinners and a decent partner to Shaheen & we will be in business!

So if Babar keeps losing series after series, we should still stick with him because of a perceived lack of alternatives?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

As I have said time and time again we should give up on test cricket.

We don't have the intelligence for it.

 

[mazkhan]

Ramiz raja and Mr PowerPoint

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

Pakistan is mediocre in tests from a long long time. In test cricket, upsets happen very rarely. Newzealand, Australia and England are way better teams than Pakistan, so it was understandable that they had upperhand against Pakistan.
Pakistan not winning a single test match against quality teams in their own home is just the realisation of how poor test team in Pakistan actually.
Not only in tests, check their recent records against top teams in every other format. Most top teams usually play their secondary teams against Pakistan in limited overs cricket.
Fact, Pakistan is very ordinary team with some extremely overrated and overhyped players. Pakistani fans should stop having some unrealistic expectations from their team.

 

[sweep_shot]

They didn't have full teams. Shaheen missing was a big blow. They also didn't have a settled spin attack.

Things were not very organized.

 

[dildilpak]

So if Babar keeps losing series after series, we should still stick with him because of a perceived lack of alternatives?

But can you name me one guy in this team who has brains and can make it to the team consistently on merit? Do we have any option other than than such mythical guy to arrive?

 

[Savak]

But can you name me one guy in this team who has brains and can make it to the team consistently on merit? Do we have any option other than than such mythical guy to arrive?

If you don't think positively and want to be safe, circumspect and want the status quo to continue then you can stick with Babar.

If you are optimistic, willing to take a gamble and determined to shake things up, you can gamble with the other options ie Shan Masood, Imam ul Haq, Rizwan, Shaheen, Shadab etc.

A captain does not necessarily have to be the best player in the team. The captain being the best player in the team is useless if he is tactically so defficient to the point where he habitually costs his team games with poor selection, tactically, bowling changes, decision making under pressure blunders.

Pakistan will benefit more with a far more competent, tactically astute, positive, proactive, good game awareness captain at the helm even if his performances are not consistent.

The team interest is paramount vs the individual.

 

[jnaveen1980]

if sarfraz had no played against NZ, Pakistan probably would have lost. He took the spinners head-on.

 

[ads101]

Not sure I care that much about competing for test championship. It doesn’t mean much anyway, it’s not as good as winning tournaments or even holding no.1 in the ranking for a significant time. I’d just forget about the whole rankings right now, and just focus on building a team that will do well at home. Forget abroad. The decline started ages ago in tests ever since Misbah left. I could blame the teams a few years ago for losing in home conditions, but the current ones you can’t even blame, they just aren’t good enough anymore and are the result of years of decline. And our best players don’t even care much about tests anymore, they are all limited overs orientated.

 

[dildilpak]

If you don't think positively and want to be safe, circumspect and want the status quo to continue then you can stick with Babar.

If you are optimistic, willing to take a gamble and determined to shake things up, you can gamble with the other options ie Shan Masood, Imam ul Haq, Rizwan, Shaheen, Shadab etc.

A captain does not necessarily have to be the best player in the team. The captain being the best player in the team is useless if he is tactically so defficient to the point where he habitually costs his team games with poor selection, tactically, bowling changes, decision making under pressure blunders.

Pakistan will benefit more with a far more competent, tactically astute, positive, proactive, good game awareness captain at the helm even if his performances are not consistent.

The team interest is paramount vs the individual.

I agree the captain doesn’t have to be the best player in the team, but honestly I see none of them with any kinda captaincy traits- not a single one of them!

Imam Ul haq seems to be another player in Babar’s mold - mild and lacking the killer instinct.

Shan masood - his name gets thrown in the mix because he is the only educated guy, but does he make it to the Test 11 consistently? Same with Rizwan in his current form.

Shadab - dont think he is interested in playing red ball cricket.

Shaheen is the only other player who consistently makes it to the 11- but as we all know, it’s not prudent to make a fast bowler a Test captain as they are prone to injuries. Has has never captained any game in his life, so don’t really know his tactical abilities or lack off, but I don’t really see a lurking technical genius in him either.

Sarfaraz - too old. He can be a stop gap captain at best, but we all know his captaincy - he is pretty much clueless in red ball as well.

It’s not like I really dig, Babar Azam the captain, but again do we really have an alternative?

 

[Saj]

Pakistan are a mid-table Test side.

They cannot compete with the best Test sides these days.

The worrying thing is their home form which used to be excellent.

 

[Sidilicious]

But can you name me one guy in this team who has brains and can make it to the team consistently on merit? Do we have any option other than than such mythical guy to arrive?

You are talking as if you guys are Bangladesh that improving is enough. Have some self respect man. You guys are one of the best teams of all time in the sport.

You need to have higher expectations from your lot and not just be happy with such results.

 

[jnaveen1980]

All said and done this probably was the best chance for Pakistan to make it to the final. Will be harder in the next edition as England is surging as a force too.

 

[Banda298]

I think it's down to a single thing. Faith and belief. The current setup needs someone like MS Dhoni who rewrote the way India approached cricket. It made thousands of youngsters sitting in far flung regions to tale up cricket seriously. The team was no longer a caucus of established power centers sharing space and players but one meritocratic. Ganguly was more of a showman who did afew things but also was elitist, egoistic and puthimself ahead of the team. It was MSD who showed true leadership with putting the team in front, putting faith in young plauers and belieivng and backing them up. The succeeding captain built upon this base and transformed the team forever.

SC teams respond well to a strong leadership figure. For Pak it was Imran who instilled that feeling in them which helped them even for a small period after Imran departed. For SL it was Ranatunga. For India it was MSD followed by Virat Kohli.

Kitna nomsense likhega. Ganguly built the team, backed guns like Yuvi,Bhajji, Pathan, Sehwag,Uthappa,Rp singh ,Gambhir ...which were the backbone of 2007 and 2011 WC wins .

Dhoni systematically removed all of them and barring a Champion trophy cudnt win nethjng without the above

 

[Sidilicious]

Kitna nomsense likhega. Ganguly built the team, backed guns like Yuvi,Bhajji, Pathan, Sehwag,Uthappa,Rp singh ,Gambhir ...which were the backbone of 2007 and 2011 WC wins .

Dhoni systematically removed all of them and barring a Champion trophy cudnt win nethjng without the above

Agree, Ganguly built the backbone of the team that went on to win both the WCs and test #1.

Dhoni wasn’t necessarily a builder, but he was good at extracting the best from the players and on-field strategy. Dhoni did also contribute to the next gen like sending Rohit to open, but he didn’t go to war with the selectors or back the talents to include the likes of Bhajji, Yuvi, Zak and Sehwag, which Sourav did. Dhoni‘s contribution could be Rohit and Jadeja.

 

[dildilpak]

You are talking as if you guys are Bangladesh that improving is enough. Have some self respect man. You guys are one of the best teams of all time in the sport.

You need to have higher expectations from your lot and not just be happy with such results.

I am not happy with the results and would be happy to ditch Babar at the first opportunity- I just don’t see anybody in the team with cricketing brains between their heads.

 

[Plumb]

Our decline been there for a long time... and officially in my opinion it was when we lost series to Lanka while Arthur was in charge..

 

[Buffet]

WTC is not very meaningful.

Pakistan should first try to do well at home and then next step should be ability to compete and win away.

 

[Sir Alex]

Kitna nomsense likhega. Ganguly built the team, backed guns like Yuvi,Bhajji, Pathan, Sehwag,Uthappa,Rp singh ,Gambhir ...which were the backbone of 2007 and 2011 WC wins .

Dhoni systematically removed all of them and barring a Champion trophy cudnt win nethjng without the above

By the time Ganguly inherited the captaincy, Yuvraj, Zaheer, Harbhajan were all more or less in the frame for selection due to their junior performances. Gsnguly did use them well to his credit. Ganguly also benefited from BCCi carrying out a cleaning exercise in the wake of the matchfixing scandal. This opened door to new talent.

How many ICC trophies did Ganguly win BTW?

I can apply the same yardstick and claim MSD developed Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli, S Dhawan, Ashwin, Jadeja, Pujara etc.

 

[BreadPakoda]

By the time Ganguly inherited the captaincy, Yuvraj, Zaheer, Harbhajan were all more or less in the frame for selection due to their junior performances. Gsnguly did use them well to his credit. Ganguly also benefited from BCCi carrying out a cleaning exercise in the wake of the matchfixing scandal. This opened door to new talent.

How many ICC trophies did Ganguly win BTW?

I can apply the same yardstick and claim MSD developed Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli, S Dhawan, Ashwin, Jadeja, Pujara etc.

Either you have no idea what you are talking about or you are simply lying. E.g., Harbhajan was not even close to selection. He was on the verge of quitting cricket and moving to Canada. Ganguly put his captaincy on the line to select him against major opposition from the selection committee.

 

[BreadPakoda]

https://www.crictracker.com/selecto...urav-ganguly-backed-me-harbhajan-singh/?amp=1

“I was once at a stage in life where I didn’t know who was with me and who was not. Because people on my face were saying that they are with me, but many of them were not with me at the time. But at the time, Sourav Ganguly backed me when I had zero backings. The selectors were against me, they told me a lot of things on my face which I cannot disclose. No amount of praise I could give Ganguly would be sufficient. If he was not the captain at the time, I don’t know if any other captain could have backed me as much,” Harbhajan said

Read this

 

[Sidilicious]

By the time Ganguly inherited the captaincy, Yuvraj, Zaheer, Harbhajan were all more or less in the frame for selection due to their junior performances. Gsnguly did use them well to his credit. Ganguly also benefited from BCCi carrying out a cleaning exercise in the wake of the matchfixing scandal. This opened door to new talent.

How many ICC trophies did Ganguly win BTW?

I can apply the same yardstick and claim MSD developed Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli, S Dhawan, Ashwin, Jadeja, Pujara etc.

Ganguly‘s backing of Bhajji and even threatening to quit captaincy if Bhajji was not chosen for the Aus series in 2001 is legendary. The rest as they say is history.

Ganguly also backed Sehwag to the hilt. When there was no place in the MO, Ganguly asked Sehwag to open and promised him that he wouldn’t be dropped before he was given a certain number of chances.

There is a reason why Bhajji, Yuvi, Sehwag and Zak have been very supportive of Ganguly and been vocal about it.

 

[MenInG]

Guys please stay on topic

 

[Amjid Javed]

On paper you couldn't have asked for an Easier set of fixtures.

SL / WI and Bangla at home then Eng / NZ and Aus at home.

Who is to blame?

Mo wasim for his pathetic selections not having the balls to drop Azhar and Fawad from team squads earlier, his selections vs England were so pathetic he deserved to be sacked

Rameez and his stupid interference on wickets, we got sporting wickets vs SL and SA, then rameez **** his pants at thought of facing teams in same conditions.

Babars clueless captaincy, you don't go an entire WTC and not win a game.

Then we have saqlain, whats the game plan? Get your prayer mats out, say your prayers and hope for the best.

Absolutel shambles of a WTC.