Pakistan Fans - Why are we divided?

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Why have historically even the fans in Pakistan are divided along players' groups? We don't see India or England or Australia fans resort to such groupism? Why is groupism so bad in PCT that it has permeated even the fans, not just the players to the detriment of cricket in Pakistan? It is frustrating to see people doing mental gymnastics to defend their bad players (Rizwan, Babar, Imad, Shadab ...) to the point that they are ok with these under performers being in the team and dragging Pakistan down as opposed to their "favorite" player being axed and Pakistan team improves (cricket is a team sport?)?

Why in Pakistan even the fans are so hopelessly split apart? My life in 90s was filled with the entire world being in awe of Pakistan (Imran, Miandad, Sohail, Anwar, Akhtar, Wasim, Waqar, Razzaq ...). Will we even get a fraction of that glory again? Even if I get my kids to watch cricket, they will never understand or experience the glory that Pakistan had and by the looks of it, never will for 1-2 decades. It is so depressing as a fan and to rub salt in the wounds, us fans are split to show loyalty to these instagrammers cloaked as "players".
 
There is a huge issue between Kohli and Rohit Sharma fans. It actually eclipses this divide that Pakistan fans have currently.

There is a minority that hates everything Babar and Rizwan, while there is an insufferable group on social media that just cannot take any criticism against them.

But still nowhere near how Indian fans behave when it comes to Kohli v Rohit Sharma.
 
You haven’t seen Dhoni fans ripping Gambhir apart everywhere! It’s very common. Everyone is going to have likes and dislikes and different options based upon different mindset.
 
You haven’t seen Dhoni fans ripping Gambhir apart everywhere! It’s very common. Everyone is going to have likes and dislikes and different options based upon different mindset.
There is a huge issue between Kohli and Rohit Sharma fans. It actually eclipses this divide that Pakistan fans have currently.

There is a minority that hates everything Babar and Rizwan, while there is an insufferable group on social media that just cannot take any criticism against them.

But still nowhere near how Indian fans behave when it comes to Kohli v Rohit Sharma.


Yeah but these issues are for teams that are largely doing well, and have deep pool of good players for whom they are fighting and debating. Pakistan has none of these. No player pool, no performance to show, no leagues to groom. Why are we fighting and why are we divided when our bowls are already empty with meagre talents? Isn't this the time fans come together because there are no "superstars" to divide fans and the survival of the team is more pressing?

Let's not compare with the likes of SENA+India countries with their established leagues, talent pool, and wins. I'm not sure if we have fans of SL, WI, AFG etc have as much infighting as Pakistan fans do.
 
There is a huge issue between Kohli and Rohit Sharma fans. It actually eclipses this divide that Pakistan fans have currently.

There is a minority that hates everything Babar and Rizwan, while there is an insufferable group on social media that just cannot take any criticism against them.

But still nowhere near how Indian fans behave when it comes to Kohli v Rohit Sharma.
Lol both the supporters still support each other to play well.

This rivalry is more along lines of Dada vs Tendulkar.
 
There is a huge issue between Kohli and Rohit Sharma fans. It actually eclipses this divide that Pakistan fans have currently.

There is a minority that hates everything Babar and Rizwan, while there is an insufferable group on social media that just cannot take any criticism against them.

But still nowhere near how Indian fans behave when it comes to Kohli v Rohit Sharma.
I can understand rizwan minority since he stays under the radar. Babar azam is not a minority?

He was from 2016-2021. 2022 doubts began to surface and by 2023 everyone asked for his sacking but supported his as a batsmen.

Now he's getting murked left and right because he shot himself in the foot by taking captaincy, and showcasing pictures of going to the mall the day before India game while Indian players were training and his side by side dad bod, his super over drama of hiding, is causing the entire world to erupt on him.

Their is not a single ex cricketer, or twitter media, or PP member that support him atm besides said minority, Count the people here who are against Babar and count people for?

As for kohli vs Rohit, again that's not true, your observation is based of number bias because India has a larger population of nearly 4 to 5x that of Pakistan so they'll just be a bigger no, sample size 250M each and the no grows much much much smaller.
 
Why have historically even the fans in Pakistan are divided along players' groups? We don't see India or England or Australia fans resort to such groupism? Why is groupism so bad in PCT that it has permeated even the fans, not just the players to the detriment of cricket in Pakistan? It is frustrating to see people doing mental gymnastics to defend their bad players (Rizwan, Babar, Imad, Shadab ...) to the point that they are ok with these under performers being in the team and dragging Pakistan down as opposed to their "favorite" player being axed and Pakistan team improves (cricket is a team sport?)?

Why in Pakistan even the fans are so hopelessly split apart? My life in 90s was filled with the entire world being in awe of Pakistan (Imran, Miandad, Sohail, Anwar, Akhtar, Wasim, Waqar, Razzaq ...). Will we even get a fraction of that glory again? Even if I get my kids to watch cricket, they will never understand or experience the glory that Pakistan had and by the looks of it, never will for 1-2 decades. It is so depressing as a fan and to rub salt in the wounds, us fans are split to show loyalty to these instagrammers cloaked as "players".
Players like Imran, miandad etc, the ones you mentioned didn't act the way players act now.

Players and their fans are a parralel link, if fans support A player and view them as their hero, its only natural that a fan is going to emulate such a player.

The players of the past kept things clear with their fans which was that Pakistan was a mid card team, they were a team that would bully minnows but they would usually lose to top sides like Australia however they could still win tournaments, Gap wasn't massive to the point that win % was 0. So understandably the fans behaved the same way.

Now however the players themselves have created their own dhusmani 11. Babar had beef with anyone in the dugout who is not his ultimate buddy, and by buddy I mean chamcha. Misbah was the same.

So even if a fan likes someone like fakhar and sarfraz, due to various fans trying to emulate the personality of Babar and misbah who they deem as their heroes, they'll create a divide amongst their own people simply because that's how their heroes aka their role models are functioning and behaving.
 
I don't think there much division in Pakistani supporters.

My observation, as an outsider, is that Pakistani supporters, in general, agree on pretty much everything cricket related.

PP is not true representation of Pakistan fans. English Pakistani and English speaking Pakistanis are over represented here.
 
This divided started in 2019 and has been growing ever since.

Their are two sets of Pakistan fans: one group is those who want to see the team succeed and prefer actual results rather than stat padding

The other set is the one which would rather see their favourites score 50s every game even if that means we lose

Up untill last year it was the latter group which was the majority however now with these fools contiuing to expose themselves, it seems like we are back to 2019 where the fans want a leader who can take the Pakistan team foward rather than his own individual goals
 
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Players like Imran, miandad etc, the ones you mentioned didn't act the way players act now.

Players and their fans are a parralel link, if fans support A player and view them as their hero, its only natural that a fan is going to emulate such a player.

The players of the past kept things clear with their fans which was that Pakistan was a mid card team, they were a team that would bully minnows but they would usually lose to top sides like Australia however they could still win tournaments, Gap wasn't massive to the point that win % was 0. So understandably the fans behaved the same way.

Now however the players themselves have created their own dhusmani 11. Babar had beef with anyone in the dugout who is not his ultimate buddy, and by buddy I mean chamcha. Misbah was the same.

So even if a fan likes someone like fakhar and sarfraz, due to various fans trying to emulate the personality of Babar and misbah who they deem as their heroes, they'll create a divide amongst their own people simply because that's how their heroes aka their role models are functioning and behaving.
Good reasoning.

My next level question based on this reasoning is that why do Pakistani players resort more into dhushmani/chamcha etc and we don't see this at such a rampant and high degree among other mid-tier teams?
 
This is not even 10% compared to how Indian fans are divided

Fans divided based on this

Rohit vs Kohli
MSD vs Kohli
Pant vs Samson
Gill vs Ruturaj
.. recent one is

Dube vs Rinku

The list goes on. Very long list.. Most because of IPL nothing else.
 
Good reasoning.

My next level question based on this reasoning is that why do Pakistani players resort more into dhushmani/chamcha etc and we don't see this at such a rampant and high degree among other mid-tier teams?
To answer your question, their is no definitive answer to this as unlike the previous question, their is no way for me to objectively prove why this dhusmani or chamcha 11 happens. I can only give my narrative reasoning.

My narrative reason is that most other mid tier teams like Afghanistan have a relatively small sample size of player so their isn't much conpetiton and worry to get selected. It's why alot of players leave for uae, USA etc cause easier chances to succeed overall.

Secondly the problem is that, most developed countries like Australia, England, Nz, India have a plethora of options. Their players can leave cricket if they feel they aren't good enough and pursue other options, while poverty exists in every country, not only is it less prevalent but the infrastructure allows a way to escape and become rich in your field irrespective of background.

For that's not the case for Pakistan. Most of the players from domestic are from poverty and they must absolutely do their best to represent their nation. They cannot fail as this is their only ticket to success. They can't just leave, do a diploma and get a job somewhere else due to financial circumstances. So once these players get a chance to represent, they will do whatever it takes even if they have to be someone's chamcha to make sure they stay, similarly those in power don't care about performances and will kick players out because they themselves are in danger of losing it all as well.

It's why we see babar azam and rizwan do their harvard course because they want to ensure future financial pcb positions. They don't have the luxury of pursuing other things and setting their mind 100% to represent their nation.

The only advantage is for those players like shan Masood, Azam Khan who are born rich and get easy access. However nepotism is a 2 edged sword. When you get something easily without working for it, Theirs no Incentive to improve and hence these players are just crap in general.

Long story short: It's all or nothing for these guys so their mind is focused on staying rather then representing their country. So far only Younis Khan and sarfraz as captains didn't seem to operate this way and only cared for the country during their respective cups. As for Imran Khan, he came from an era where such nepotism never existed. He's a great captain no doubt bit he never had to ego heads and this chamcha culture as it did not exist back then.
 
We are not divided but the team is. Fans want to see pakistan winning the games. It is the team itself that is divided due to likes and dislikes.

Fans want certain players in or out of team based on whatever reason they can come up with but in the end, we all want this team to win. Those who want to see this team lose, should not call themselves fans
 
We are not divided but the team is. Fans want to see pakistan winning the games. It is the team itself that is divided due to likes and dislikes.

Fans want certain players in or out of team based on whatever reason they can come up with but in the end, we all want this team to win. Those who want to see this team lose, should not call themselves fans
We are. Fans are representations of their favourite players, nothing wrong with that. That is how they should be, if you are a fan, it's natural some of them will want to emulate certain qualities to an extent.

But if babar has dhusmani with abrar and someone is a fan of Babar and another is a fan of abrar then a fight between fans will happen.

If everyone is gelled, then the fighting ampung fans also stop
 
We are not divided but the team is. Fans want to see pakistan winning the games. It is the team itself that is divided due to likes and dislikes.

Fans want certain players in or out of team based on whatever reason they can come up with but in the end, we all want this team to win. Those who want to see this team lose, should not call themselves fans
We absolutely are! We are not a cricket powerhouse and are teetering between mid-team on a good day and minnow on many other bad days. It is embarrassing to see the level of fan fights for a team that is at a mid tier - minnow level.
 
We absolutely are! We are not a cricket powerhouse and are teetering between mid-team on a good day and minnow on many other bad days. It is embarrassing to see the level of fan fights for a team that is at a mid tier - minnow level.
Pakistan use to be a mid tier team, a mid tier team is respectable aka Pakistan would murder minnows Black and blue, and these minnows were 2007 Zimbabwe tier aka a team that pulled an upset on classic Australia.

This mid tier while granted would be in the backfoot against top teams like Australia, during cups, they were capable of winning here and their albeit infrequently.

Right now it's a minnow. Seriously name one test nation that's inferior to Pakistan? I can only maybe think of Ireland? And that too just barely?

In this t20 cup so far, Australia, England, India seems like a distant dream to beat.

West Indies, Afghanistan the waybtheir playing would absolutely dogwalk Pakistan.

SA God forbid if they get a dallas pitch and bar first would massacre this team into 2035.

Bamgaldesh and Sri lanka atm have been playing better cricket with the likes of Liton das still being superior to the entire unit.

Which test nation is Pakistan superior to? The only test nation that's out of it is NZ, but even then they tied with their c team? And in Jan dogwalked Pakistan, So even their current out of match practise team still seems to have an edge?

USA and Canada based of performances have been superior atm. Nedtherlands gave SA a massive scare and has upset them 2x in the past.

So Pakistan is only objectively superior to Uganada, PNG, Nepal and maybe Nambia and Oman? Assuming David wiese from Nambia doesn't just solo the entire dugout?

Embarrassing really
 
Pakistan use to be a mid tier team, a mid tier team is respectable aka Pakistan would murder minnows Black and blue, and these minnows were 2007 Zimbabwe tier aka a team that pulled an upset on classic Australia.

This mid tier while granted would be in the backfoot against top teams like Australia, during cups, they were capable of winning here and their albeit infrequently.

Right now it's a minnow. Seriously name one test nation that's inferior to Pakistan? I can only maybe think of Ireland? And that too just barely?

In this t20 cup so far, Australia, England, India seems like a distant dream to beat.

West Indies, Afghanistan the waybtheir playing would absolutely dogwalk Pakistan.

SA God forbid if they get a dallas pitch and bar first would massacre this team into 2035.

Bamgaldesh and Sri lanka atm have been playing better cricket with the likes of Liton das still being superior to the entire unit.

Which test nation is Pakistan superior to? The only test nation that's out of it is NZ, but even then they tied with their c team? And in Jan dogwalked Pakistan, So even their current out of match practise team still seems to have an edge?

USA and Canada based of performances have been superior atm. Nedtherlands gave SA a massive scare and has upset them 2x in the past.

So Pakistan is only objectively superior to Uganada, PNG, Nepal and maybe Nambia and Oman? Assuming David wiese from Nambia doesn't just solo the entire dugout?

Embarrassing really
Really? Are we actually lower than BD and SL? I would be depressed if so. In my mind Pakistan can still win 70% of the encounters against BD and SL. I've probably been wrong about that assumption then! :(
 
Really? Are we actually lower than BD and SL? I would be depressed if so. In my mind Pakistan can still win 70% of the encounters against BD and SL. I've probably been wrong about that assumption then! :(
Pakistan vs Sri lanka since 2022 have all been very close encounters. In the asia cup final they beat us in 2022, in asia cup 2023 they beat us by the narrowest of margins. In world cup 2023 we had to bat out of pur skins to chase a record 346 against them, so it's 60-40 in Sri Lanka favour. Each contest has been close in the last few years.

Bangladesh in this tournament is playing better then Pakistan and has proven to be superior to sri lanka by beating them and almost beating SA but Mahmudullah chocked
 
It is mainly because some people understand cricket and watch the actual game, on the other side there are people who only see highlights and reels on social media where everything looks good. When someone says that Babar strike rate is an issue in T20 cricket, it is a fact but there are some fans who would say that he can do anything he wants and whatever he does, it is good but others should play better.
 
The talented and powerful players are unfit and/or fixed (and even old). The better performing players for us are less talented (perhaps better fitness) with low power so people aren’t satisfied with them as they don’t play the modern game.

It’s like picking out of two bad options. Some people prefer the first lot, some the second. Both are non ideal.

If Pakistan and players the best of both worlds eg a Butler, we wouldn’t be divided over these guys.
 
When a team isnt doing well the fanbase will naturally have different theories for how to improve it. That's really all the division.

Bar one or two maniacs most fans want to see Pakistan win matches. They just put forward their theories for how to achieve this. Those theories often are centred around players that they feel best reflect the style of play they want for the team.
 
Pakistani fans have always been divided. They always support their favorites to be the captain, and if those favorites aren't in the playing 11 or squad, they become overly critical or even wish for the team to perform poorly.
I have observed this behavior among Pakistani fans.
 
It is mainly because some people understand cricket and watch the actual game, on the other side there are people who only see highlights and reels on social media where everything looks good. When someone says that Babar strike rate is an issue in T20 cricket, it is a fact but there are some fans who would say that he can do anything he wants and whatever he does, it is good but others should play better.

This is my impression as well. It was brought home to me when I watched this year's PSL where superstar players like Babar and Shaheen were getting the crowds getting up and chanting their names when they were in play. These guys are idols among those who only look at the stats and don't actually get to see them play international games at the top level much. Both are performers on their day, but they need conditions to be in their favour.
 
Problem is the only talented players are the likes of Azam and Saim. Azam is extremely unfit and Saim hasn't got the start that others hoped he would.

You can check high and low but whether it's T20I's or PSL, the batsmen with the best numbers have been picked.

Even for Rizwan to be replaced , someone like a Mohammad Haris needs to have a great PSL, which he didn't.

There are no better readymade batsmen available - the rest are all highly flawed.
 
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