What's new

Pakistan fans - Would you swap Imran Khan and Wasim Akram for MS Dhoni and Virat Kohli?

Bleedgreen4ever

Local Club Regular
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Runs
1,306
The title says it all.

Very interesting question :amir2

I would swap akram for Kohli but not IK definitely.
 
Im really sorry, and no offence, but these hypothetical swap threads are stupid. Even more so when they concern completely different players and eras.

Might as well make a thread of swapping Bradman with Hafeez.
 
Im really sorry, and no offence, but these hypothetical swap threads are stupid. Even more so when they concern completely different players and eras.

Might as well make a thread of swapping Bradman with Hafeez.

Then don't comment on such threads if they bother you so much..

All players are probably the best in the history of the sub continent
 
Not in a million years. Exchange perhaps the greatest cricketer from Asia and the best all-rounder along with THE greatest left-arm fast bowler of all time for an ODI finisher/captain and an unfinished product? NO.
 
Question is for Pakistani fans but as an indian I would take IK and Wasim over Kohli and Dhoni.. Depends on which era though I mean IK playing with Sachin, Wasim, Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag, Gambo, Ganguly, Zak, Bhajji would win most matches without need of a keeper batsmen like Dhoni..

As long as Wasim plays for team and is not involved in shady off field business I would take IK and waz any day..
 
Im really sorry, and no offence, but these hypothetical swap threads are stupid. Even more so when they concern completely different players and eras.

Might as well make a thread of swapping Bradman with Hafeez.


Haha I agree these threads are stupid but it’s hypothetical situations cheer up and have fun..
 
Imran and Wasim have left a bowling legacy which has not paid any long-term dividends.

Pakistan cricket has been nothing but mediocre for the last two decades, and teams with better batting culture have left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

As the greatest ever Asian batsman and one of the best ODI batsmen ever respectively, Kohli and Dhoni would create a batting culture for Pakistan. In addition, Dhoni is also the greatest ODI captain in history.

So to answer the question, I would swap Imran and Wasim for Kohli and Dhoni. It is a swap of two giants for two giants, but the latter would create a legacy that would leave Pakistan cricket in a better position is the long run.
 
Imran and Wasim have left a bowling legacy which has not paid any long-term dividends.

Pakistan cricket has been nothing but mediocre for the last two decades, and teams with better batting culture have left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

As the greatest ever Asian batsman and one of the best ODI batsmen ever respectively, Kohli and Dhoni would create a batting culture for Pakistan. In addition, Dhoni is also the greatest ODI captain in history.

So to answer the question, I would swap Imran and Wasim for Kohli and Dhoni. It is a swap of two giants for two giants, but the latter would create a legacy that would leave Pakistan cricket in a better position is the long run.

The reason why you see Pakistan producing more left-arm bowlers than any other cricketing nation is due to Wasim's legacy. Even 15 years after his retirement, we saw a video of a 6 year old emulating his action. Imran single-handingly raised Pakistan cricket in front of the world and made cricket a national obsession. It has dwindled down due to non-cricketing reasons which have created cricketing consequences as a result. If you take out IK and Wasim from Pakistan cricket, there simply is no Pakistan cricket. Dhoni has created not a legacy but a standard for future Indian wicket-keeper batsman and captains. Kholi is NOT the greatest Asian batsman yet, he isn't even the greatest Indian batsman. He has become a phenomenal player who has reinvoked aggression into an otherwise dull Indian cricketing culture. But to cement this legacy, he needs overseas series wins and not a win in a dead rubber (which is more than what PAK will produce later this year in SA).
 
The reason why you see Pakistan producing more left-arm bowlers than any other cricketing nation is due to Wasim's legacy. Even 15 years after his retirement, we saw a video of a 6 year old emulating his action. Imran single-handingly raised Pakistan cricket in front of the world and made cricket a national obsession. It has dwindled down due to non-cricketing reasons which have created cricketing consequences as a result. If you take out IK and Wasim from Pakistan cricket, there simply is no Pakistan cricket. Dhoni has created not a legacy but a standard for future Indian wicket-keeper batsman and captains. Kholi is NOT the greatest Asian batsman yet, he isn't even the greatest Indian batsman. He has become a phenomenal player who has reinvoked aggression into an otherwise dull Indian cricketing culture. But to cement this legacy, he needs overseas series wins and not a win in a dead rubber (which is more than what PAK will produce later this year in SA).

So if I am a right hand guy , after getting inspired by Wasim , can i bowl left arm ?? I don't think so.
 
Imran and Wasim have left a bowling legacy which has not paid any long-term dividends.

Pakistan cricket has been nothing but mediocre for the last two decades, and teams with better batting culture have left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

As the greatest ever Asian batsman and one of the best ODI batsmen ever respectively, Kohli and Dhoni would create a batting culture for Pakistan. In addition, Dhoni is also the greatest ODI captain in history.

So to answer the question, I would swap Imran and Wasim for Kohli and Dhoni. It is a swap of two giants for two giants, but the latter would create a legacy that would leave Pakistan cricket in a better position is the long run.

Kohli and Dhoni haven't created a batting legacy as apart from the top 3 there aren't that many world class dependable batsmen in the team. Also their batting and bowling culture comes from a system which cannot be substituted for all the legacies in the world. If that were the case then WI should have been the best team in the world at the moment.
 
Please rephrase your post. I don't understand.

I can understand already left arm bowlers wanting to bowl like Wasim. I don't think people want to be left armers after watching Wasim which I thought was the point you were trying to make.
 
The reason why you see Pakistan producing more left-arm bowlers than any other cricketing nation is due to Wasim's legacy. Even 15 years after his retirement, we saw a video of a 6 year old emulating his action. Imran single-handingly raised Pakistan cricket in front of the world and made cricket a national obsession. It has dwindled down due to non-cricketing reasons which have created cricketing consequences as a result. If you take out IK and Wasim from Pakistan cricket, there simply is no Pakistan cricket. Dhoni has created not a legacy but a standard for future Indian wicket-keeper batsman and captains. Kholi is NOT the greatest Asian batsman yet, he isn't even the greatest Indian batsman. He has become a phenomenal player who has reinvoked aggression into an otherwise dull Indian cricketing culture. But to cement this legacy, he needs overseas series wins and not a win in a dead rubber (which is more than what PAK will produce later this year in SA).

I found this statement funny. It's not as if the greatest Indian batsman won't be the greatest Asian batsman.

---

I don't support India or Pakistan, but I will take IK+Wasim combo over Dhoni+Kohli in the test format and in the ODI format it will be other way around.
 
I can understand already left arm bowlers wanting to bowl like Wasim. I don't think people want to be left armers after watching Wasim which I thought was the point you were trying to make.

Thanks for rephrasing.
You'll be surprised. That is the charm of Wasim. I myself am guilty of trying to copy him in the park. Unfortunately, I threw half-volleys instead of perfect in-swngers.
 
I found this statement funny. It's not as if the greatest Indian batsman won't be the greatest Asian batsman.

---

I don't support India or Pakistan, but I will take IK+Wasim combo over Dhoni+Kohli in the test format and in the ODI format it will be other way around.

Sachin is THE greatest Asian batsman but I feel like Sunny edges him in Tests. I confused myself there distinguishing from ODI's and Tests.
 
Lol no.

Not even a consideration

Kohli I'll consider perhaps in the future but def not Dhoni
 
Most Indians (with some cricket acumen) will take Imran for Dhoni without spending a second.
They will take a few seconds to swap Kohli with Akram.
 
Most Indians (with some cricket acumen) will take Imran for Dhoni without spending a second.
They will take a few seconds to swap Kohli with Akram.

Mistaken . Imran and Akram every day. Dhoni and Kohli are more hyping machine superstars.
 
Why would you swap two bowlers with two batsmen?

Anyway, as overall cricketers:

Imran > Dhoni
Akram > Kohli
 
Imran and Wasim have left a bowling legacy which has not paid any long-term dividends.

Pakistan cricket has been nothing but mediocre for the last two decades, and teams with better batting culture have left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

As the greatest ever Asian batsman and one of the best ODI batsmen ever respectively, Kohli and Dhoni would create a batting culture for Pakistan. In addition, Dhoni is also the greatest ODI captain in history.

So to answer the question, I would swap Imran and Wasim for Kohli and Dhoni. It is a swap of two giants for two giants, but the latter would create a legacy that would leave Pakistan cricket in a better position is the long run.

"Imran and Wasim have left a bowling legacy which has not paid any long-term dividends.

Kohli and Dhoni would create a batting culture for Pakistan."

Will Kohli and Dhoni turn Shehzad into Devilliers with their magic wand?

This must be the dumbest thing I have read in a long time. Waqar inspired Malinga. Boult grew up watching Wasim. Irfan Pathan's childhood hero was Wasim. Mustafiz idolizes Aamir. The list goes on and on. Imran and Wasim created a legacy which has crossed borders. Why do you think there is a plethora of left arm fast bowlers in the last decade? Almost, everyone tries to copy Wasim.

Dhoni and Kohli are legendary batsmen but they do not bring anything new to the table. Asia has produced tremendous batsmen including Tendulkar, Dravid, Sanga, Miandad, Jayasuriya, etc. Nobody even comes close to Imran and Wasim as a bowler. It is much easier to become a legendary batsman in Asia than a legendary bowler.
 
How many cricketers have we seen of the caliber of Wasim Akram and Imran Khan?

That alone should answer the question.
 
Having a “batting legacy” would be nothing if the system isn’t in place to develop batsmen.

Batting is a skill that doesn’t require as much raw talent as bowling.
 
Imran instead of Dhoni any day of the week, any format.

Akram or Kohli, tough choice.

In Tests I would pick Akram because to win a Test match you need 20 wickets.

In ODI it's 50/50. If I had to defend a target, Akram. If I had to chase a target then probably Kohli.
 
Nope they are 2 of our greats, with IK captaining our winning side in the world cup and wasim akram being one of the best fast bowlers in the world.

I'll give you babar azam, mohammed hafeez, azhar ali, asad shafiq and sarfraz ahmed for kohli and dhoni.

Then we have a deal.
 
Are you out of your mind? Imran and Wasim are pretty much what Pakistan cricket is about.
 
Is this some kind of joke thread?

IK and Akram are in many people all time XI with IK as captain. Dhoni was a good ODI bat but a poor test player. Kohli is good but Akram was a genius.
 
I'm probably one of the biggest Dhoni and Kohli fan but I would not swap Imran and Wasim for those two, EVER. Preposterous to even think about it.

Imran and Wasim are rated unanimously by all cricketers around the globe as being one of the top 20 or 30 cricketers of all time. Also both of them remained match winners right till the end of their careers. Dhoni WAS a match winner in his peak but he is not nowadays. Kohli is an ATG right now but let's see if he's winning matches on his own at the fag end of his career. With regards to Kohli, if I was asked if I would swap Miandad for Kohli, then yes I would. But Imran and Wasim, no chance!!!
 
I'd think about it if you consider the batting discipline only.

That said, Wasim Akram the test batsman is better than MSD :yk He's got a test 100 in Australia :D
 
Lol no way.Maybe I could consider Kohli for ODI’s over Wasim in the current era but other than that,no.
 
Last edited:
Imran and Wasim have left a bowling legacy which has not paid any long-term dividends.

Pakistan cricket has been nothing but mediocre for the last two decades, and teams with better batting culture have left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

As the greatest ever Asian batsman and one of the best ODI batsmen ever respectively, Kohli and Dhoni would create a batting culture for Pakistan. In addition, Dhoni is also the greatest ODI captain in history.

So to answer the question, I would swap Imran and Wasim for Kohli and Dhoni. It is a swap of two giants for two giants, but the latter would create a legacy that would leave Pakistan cricket in a better position is the long run.

You can't ask for better icons to be inspired by than Wasim and Imran, inspiration that would have led to careers of players like Akhtar, Asif and Amir following closely behind had it not been for their own decision making, not lack of inspiration or culture.

No country has managed to produce exponents of reverse swing like we have and our armada of options to call upon despite innumerable setbacks via injuries or the aforementioned is unqiue, especially among Asian teams.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest Dhoni and Kohli would have inspired a better batch talent wise, and with the correct mentality and temperament to not throw away a good chunk of it like many of our fast bowlers.

Maybe you get more players wanting to be batsman but to lose the plethora of fast bowlers over the past two decades that have comfortably exceeded the quality of our counterparts across the border doesn't make me feel like giving up two icons contributing to that divide is a good idea.

Developing a culture for a skill takes longer than a generation - Sunny G didn't immediately leave to see India become a batting superpower, heck, it took half of Sachin's career down the drain for that to come to fruition, who in turn led to Kohli etc.
 
I wouldn't make the swap.

But Pakistan does need a Kohli type batsman to revolutionize their batting culture. Someone of his caliber would create a new love for batting among the young ones.
 
You don't need a homegrown player to inspire a local. I don't buy that argument. I started leg spin bowling because of two things:

1) Leg spinners were very rare in cricket (early to mid 90's)
2) Shane Warne.

Mushtaq Ahmed even though he was great in the 90s for sure didn't inspire me to bowl leg spin. People get inspired by quality players and inspiration transcends boundaries. If we were living in the 70's and 80's where cricket was not televised globally, then yes local cricketers would inspire you but nowadays a kid sitting in Dadu can watch Ab De Villiers playing in Johannesburg and be inspired by him.
 
Last edited:
You don't need a homegrown player to inspire a local. I don't buy that argument. I started leg spin bowling because of two things:

1) Leg spinners were very rare in cricket (early to mid 90's)
2) Shane Warne.

Mushtaq Ahmed even though he was great in the 90s for sure didn't inspire me to bowl leg spin. People get inspired by quality players and inspiration transcends boundaries. If we were living in the 70's and 80's where cricket was not televised globally, then yes local cricketers would inspire you but nowadays a kid sitting in Dadu can watch Ab De Villiers playing in Johannesburg and be inspired by him.

Inspiration comes in many forms.

Broadcasts, highlights (Youtube), in the nets at your local ground, and domestic tournaments.

Young Pakistani cricketers can watch streams/highlights but they're not getting the opportunity to play or practice with Kohli.
 
Serious question - What did Imran Khan achieve apart from the WC'92? As far as I know, he was a top-notch bowler and second best All rounder (after Sobers?).
 
Serious question - What did Imran Khan achieve apart from the WC'92? As far as I know, he was a top-notch bowler and second best All rounder (after Sobers?).

Nothing! indians achieve everything. He fluked his batting and bowling averages and overseas series wins :)
 
This is a dumb question because you are yet to see MSD or Kohli perform their full careers. The latter two can win another World Cup for India and surpass our greats easily and I would do the swap.
 
Imran and Wasim have left a bowling legacy which has not paid any long-term dividends.

Pakistan cricket has been nothing but mediocre for the last two decades, and teams with better batting culture have left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

As the greatest ever Asian batsman and one of the best ODI batsmen ever respectively, Kohli and Dhoni would create a batting culture for Pakistan. In addition, Dhoni is also the greatest ODI captain in history.

So to answer the question, I would swap Imran and Wasim for Kohli and Dhoni. It is a swap of two giants for two giants, but the latter would create a legacy that would leave Pakistan cricket in a better position is the long run.

let the over-hyping being , get out of your bubble everyone knows how biased you are towards Indians. Dhoni isn't the best ODI captain Ponting, IK much better and he is no where near being the best batsman.
 
never.
but i would swap BCCCI's clout for Pakistan's
 
Pseudos out in full force and looking to swap. Let's swap a guy who won a world cup for his team at 39 for another who averages 13 in England. Only a pseudo would suggest that....flag that.
 
Never. If a Pakistani fan that is old enough to have seen either play would swap one of those two I would be extremely surprised and question if they really were fans of the Pakistani cricket team to begin with. I suppose some really young kid who never saw Wasim/Imran might though, and there's no blame there.

That is like a Bulls fan saying he'd trade Jordan for X, or a Warriors fan saying he would trade Curry for X, or a Barca fan saying he would trade Messi for X. Wasim & Imran are the two most recognizable cricketing legends from Pakistan by a mile. The next closest one is probably Javed Miandad or if you are younger someone from the past generation (Waqar?). A more apt comparison would have been Imran for Kapil and Wasim for Sachin, in terms of legendary status.
 
Imran and Wasim have left a bowling legacy which has not paid any long-term dividends.

Pakistan cricket has been nothing but mediocre for the last two decades, and teams with better batting culture have left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

As the greatest ever Asian batsman and one of the best ODI batsmen ever respectively, Kohli and Dhoni would create a batting culture for Pakistan. In addition, Dhoni is also the greatest ODI captain in history.

So to answer the question, I would swap Imran and Wasim for Kohli and Dhoni. It is a swap of two giants for two giants, but the latter would create a legacy that would leave Pakistan cricket in a better position is the long run.

Extremely disappointed to see a Pakistan fan posting this, but everyone has a right to their opinion.
 
No way. IK and Waz all the way for me. Waz for Teenda would be a very close call.
 
How sorry would one's existence have to be, that in order to get attention from people you don't even know (over an online discussion board) you bash the very players that have left a lasting legacy of your birth country and a nation you claim you 'support and are from'

On Topic: Not even in a million years! IK and Wasim epitomize the Pakistaniat and the culture that we bring to the cricketing faternity. Both these players define how we play are cricket on the field - Fast bowlers who put the fear of God among batsmen........
 
Two completely different type of players and Wasim and Imran are ATG's. Not sure why any nation would swap them for anyone.
 
Two completely different type of players and Wasim and Imran are ATG's. Not sure why any nation would swap them for anyone.

Coz we could do with a batsman like Teenda! He's the best I've seen.
 
No sane person would swap two legitimate top tier ATG's for those two. The only T1 ATG Indians are Gavaskar and Sachin. T1 means you are genuinely in contention for selection in an alltime world x1.

As a coach, I would still take the Pk duo as bowlers win Test matches.
 
I'm an Indian fan.

I've seen plenty of Wasim Akram and if I was a Pakistan fan, I wouldn't swap him.

I'd love to have Wasim Akram in my team. Akram is an ATG and any 11 would have him.
 
no, this is an apples to oranges comparison and does not make any sense, two bowlers to two batsmen...
 
Imran Khan and Wasim Akram shouldn't be swapped for any other players in cricket history. Both are global icons that are recognisable outside just cricket and are integral to not just pakistani cricket, but Pakistani history as a whole.
 
Imran and Wasim have left a bowling legacy which has not paid any long-term dividends.

Pakistan cricket has been nothing but mediocre for the last two decades, and teams with better batting culture have left Pakistan cricket in its dust.

As the greatest ever Asian batsman and one of the best ODI batsmen ever respectively, Kohli and Dhoni would create a batting culture for Pakistan. In addition, Dhoni is also the greatest ODI captain in history.

So to answer the question, I would swap Imran and Wasim for Kohli and Dhoni. It is a swap of two giants for two giants, but the latter would create a legacy that would leave Pakistan cricket in a better position is the long run.

:)))

Someone tell this guy that he is already infamous here for his gems of wisdom. He doesn't need to pull off any more stunts to gain attention.

Wasim Akram is better than both these Indians COMBINED. He is an ATG in both formats, possibly the best ever pace bowler in ODIs. Dhoni, on the other hand, is a mediocre test player with zero legacy as a player and Kohli has a long way to go before he can even be mentioned in the same breath as Wasim.

ODIs is the only format where the three can be compared. However, even then every single person with some sense would pick Wasim any day of the week. While Kohli is a massive choker in high-pressure ODI matches with an impressive resume of wetting his pants when the going gets tough (2011 WC final, 2015 WC final, 2017 CT final), Wasim Akram is at his best when the pressure is on. His two deliveries in the '92 WC are more iconic than anything Kohli will ever achieve.

Dhoni has a very impressive 90-odd in WCs but overall, his record outside the subcontinent is underwhelming. However, his keeping does help raise his stature but he's not and never will be an icon like Wasim is.

The only Indian batsman I would consider trading for Wasim Akram would be Sachin Tendulker. That is because the two of them, along with Muralitharan are the greatest Asian players in their respective fields and the greatest players period, barring one...

That one is Imran Khan and India hasn't produced a player as valuable as him. Period.
 
This thread is so silly that having an in-depth discussion such as bowlers being inherently superior to batsmen, the fact that Imran and Wasim were responsible for much of our greatest moments and the relative lack of impact of Dhoni and Kohli is not even worth considering.
 
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] and others

I have no doubt in my mind that Kohli would go down as a better cricket than Wasim.

Wasim had immeasurable talent. Someone like him should have ended up as the greatest fast bowler of all time, but he was not able to do justice to his talent because of his lack of integrity. He was a proven match-fixer.

In comparison, Kohli has immense respect for the game and is eager to be the best cricketer he can possibly be. His drive to succeed leaves many greats of the game in his dust and by the time he retires, he may well be the best batsman to have played the game in the last 30-40 years. He is already an ATG at the age of 29. He would walk on coal to help his team win, and will never sell matches like Wasim did.

Dhoni vs Imran is a lot tougher for me. On another day, I might go with Imran. If it was Tendulkar vs Imran, I would go with the former any time because a figure like Tendulkar would make Pakistan a batting nation and would yield long-term benefits.

Being a bowling nation has not brought us success in the last few decades. Our lack of quality in the batting department is the only reason why we are lagging behind the top teams.

As far as Dhoni vs Imran is concerned, there is no doubt that Imran was by far the better Test player and also a better Test captain. However, Dhoni is the best ODI captain of all time and he was a better Test captain than what his overseas record shows. India simply did not have the pace bowling riches at that time. All they had was Zaheer, but now they have a better rounded attack.

With the bowling resources that Imran had, Dhoni would fare much better than what he did with his pace bowlers. Imran deserves cricket for the success of Wasim and Waqar, but the fact is that Imran did not have a magic wand. There were players who could not develop into anything special under him.

He unlocked the potential of Wasim and Waqar, but what can a captain do when there is no potential to be unlocked? Wasim and Waqar would have been great bowlers under any captain in any era. Imran was fortunate enough to lead the side at a time when two ATG bowling talents emerged in the space of few years.

It is obviously hard to overlook the impact and legacy Imran and Wasim have created, but Pakistan cricket would have been - and will be - better served with batting heroes.
 
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] and others

I have no doubt in my mind that Kohli would go down as a better cricket than Wasim.

Wasim had immeasurable talent. Someone like him should have ended up as the greatest fast bowler of all time, but he was not able to do justice to his talent because of his lack of integrity. He was a proven match-fixer.

In comparison, Kohli has immense respect for the game and is eager to be the best cricketer he can possibly be. His drive to succeed leaves many greats of the game in his dust and by the time he retires, he may well be the best batsman to have played the game in the last 30-40 years. He is already an ATG at the age of 29. He would walk on coal to help his team win, and will never sell matches like Wasim did.

Dhoni vs Imran is a lot tougher for me. On another day, I might go with Imran. If it was Tendulkar vs Imran, I would go with the former any time because a figure like Tendulkar would make Pakistan a batting nation and would yield long-term benefits.

Being a bowling nation has not brought us success in the last few decades. Our lack of quality in the batting department is the only reason why we are lagging behind the top teams.

As far as Dhoni vs Imran is concerned, there is no doubt that Imran was by far the better Test player and also a better Test captain. However, Dhoni is the best ODI captain of all time and he was a better Test captain than what his overseas record shows. India simply did not have the pace bowling riches at that time. All they had was Zaheer, but now they have a better rounded attack.

With the bowling resources that Imran had, Dhoni would fare much better than what he did with his pace bowlers. Imran deserves cricket for the success of Wasim and Waqar, but the fact is that Imran did not have a magic wand. There were players who could not develop into anything special under him.

He unlocked the potential of Wasim and Waqar, but what can a captain do when there is no potential to be unlocked? Wasim and Waqar would have been great bowlers under any captain in any era. Imran was fortunate enough to lead the side at a time when two ATG bowling talents emerged in the space of few years.

It is obviously hard to overlook the impact and legacy Imran and Wasim have created, but Pakistan cricket would have been - and will be - better served with batting heroes.
Kholi over Wasim? Are you serious? As with all your posts, you present a fantastic argument and than bring it down to the ashes with a nonesensical turn.

What has Kholi done to outshine the greatest left arm fast bowler of all time? The only bowler who competes with Wasim is McGrath who played all his matches on bouncy AUS wickets, with safe slip hands and almost always a large 1st innings total to build pressure on. Despite his great track record, he has but 1 5-fer’ to show in Asia. Not to mention ATG’s like Border wish they were reborn as Wasim and Lara admits he was the only bowler to make him feel “out of form” despite being dismissed by McGrath himself 18 times.

Virat Kholi has exceeded all expectations but he has failed when it has mattered the most. He is an outstanding talent but right now, he is an Allan Donald. Brutal, consistently at the top of the charts, yet when that magical time comes every 4 years to showcase yourself in front of the whole world, he goes haywire, missing in fact. Even if Kholi wins a WC, he cannot surpass the impact of Wasim Akram. Wasim is the reason you see a plethora of left-arm fast bowlers in the current setup. Not to mention the likes of Boult and Fizz (who looks up to a follower of Waz) have Wasim to thank for showing that LAF is effective also. Your argument that VK is revolutionary because he is a #3 that chases down targets is poor because that is exactly what was always required of a #3. To be the best batsman in the team and score big. I would never switch Wasim for Kholi and nor would any sane cricketing fan.

As far as the match-fixing is concerned, not much to argue there. Waz is a not however a PROVEN match-fixer although the evidence strongly suggests so. Yet, it does not undermine his influence and popularity. So much so, that even Justice Qayyum himself fell victim to the seduction of Wasim’s bowling.
 
Last edited:
Kholi over Wasim? Are you serious? As with all your posts, you present a fantastic argument and than bring it down to the ashes with a nonesensical turn.

What has Kholi done to outshine the greatest left arm fast bowler of all time? The only bowler who competes with Wasim is McGrath who played all his matches on bouncy AUS wickets, with safe slip hands and almost always a large 1st innings total to build pressure on. Despite his great track record, he has but 1 5-fer’ to show in Asia. Not to mention ATG’s like Border wish they were reborn as Wasim and Lara admits he was the only bowler to make him feel “out of form” despite being dismissed by McGrath himself 18 times.

Virat Kholi has exceeded all expectations but he has failed when it has mattered the most. He is an outstanding talent but right now, he is an Allan Donald. Brutal, consistently at the top of the charts, yet when that magical time comes every 4 years to showcase yourself in front of the whole world, he goes haywire, missing in fact. Even if Kholi wins a WC, he cannot surpass the impact of Wasim Akram. Wasim is the reason you see a plethora of left-arm fast bowlers in the current setup. Not to mention the likes of Boult and Fizz (who looks up to a follower of Waz) have Wasim to thank for showing that LAF is effective also. Your argument that VK is revolutionary because he is a #3 that chases down targets is poor because that is exactly what was always required of a #3. To be the best batsman in the team and score big. I would never switch Wasim for Kholi and nor would any sane cricketing fan.

As far as the match-fixing is concerned, not much to argue there. Waz is a not however a PROVEN match-fixer although the evidence strongly suggests so. Yet, it does not undermine his influence and popularity. So much so, that even Justice Qayyum himself fell victim to the seduction of Wasim’s bowling.

Wasim got a freehand because of the ********* of Justice Qayyum. It does not mean that he was not proven.

Kohli is on his way to becoming the greatest ODI batsman of all time. Similarly, Wasim is also considered the best in his disciple in ODI cricket, although he has to share the title with McGrath for most people. By the time Kohli retires, it will probably down to him and Viv only.

He is also an ATG Test batsman in the making, and like Wasim, he is not going to be the best ever in this format (unless he does something extraordinary in the next decade).

Yes a great World Cup has eluded him so far, but he still has two World Cups to go. Only a fool would right him off, and if he does not dominate next year or in 2023, it would certainly be eye-opening and would tarnish his legacy.

However, the fierce competitor that he is, I fully expect him to deliver.

He is also a very revolutionary cricketer. Wasim has given birth to left-arm pacers and because of Kohli, we would see batsmen in the mould of Kohli in the future. He has already inspired the young cricketers around the world with his fitness, and he is the first batsman ever to be a top order anchor and a finisher rolled into one.

Yes it is true that the job of the number 3 batsman is to be the best batsman in the team and score big, but Kohli is the first number 3 in history to not only score big but also finish the job.

He is top order anchor + a finisher. No batsman has ever done that in the past. He does not set the platform for others and nor does he bank on the others setting the platform for him; he sets the platform for himself and finishes the game off. He grabs the bull by the horns and runs away with it like no batsman before him.

He is literally a two in one batsman. He is Tendulkar/Ponting and Dhoni/Bevan rolled into one.

He has changed the way people view ODI batting, and has shown the world that targets can be chased down with brutal efficiency. The fact that he is the greatest run chaser in history by far alone makes him a highly revolutionary cricketer.

As a player, he is every bit as good as Wasim and he is also a man of integrity who will not sell the team and will not chicken out of a World Cup QF against his arch rivals due to an "injury", so yes I will take Kohli over Wasim in my team.
 
[MENTION=129948]Bilal7[/MENTION] and others

I have no doubt in my mind that Kohli would go down as a better cricket than Wasim.

Wasim had immeasurable talent. Someone like him should have ended up as the greatest fast bowler of all time, but he was not able to do justice to his talent because of his lack of integrity. He was a proven match-fixer.

In comparison, Kohli has immense respect for the game and is eager to be the best cricketer he can possibly be. His drive to succeed leaves many greats of the game in his dust and by the time he retires, he may well be the best batsman to have played the game in the last 30-40 years. He is already an ATG at the age of 29. He would walk on coal to help his team win, and will never sell matches like Wasim did.

Dhoni vs Imran is a lot tougher for me. On another day, I might go with Imran. If it was Tendulkar vs Imran, I would go with the former any time because a figure like Tendulkar would make Pakistan a batting nation and would yield long-term benefits.

Being a bowling nation has not brought us success in the last few decades. Our lack of quality in the batting department is the only reason why we are lagging behind the top teams.

As far as Dhoni vs Imran is concerned, there is no doubt that Imran was by far the better Test player and also a better Test captain. However, Dhoni is the best ODI captain of all time and he was a better Test captain than what his overseas record shows. India simply did not have the pace bowling riches at that time. All they had was Zaheer, but now they have a better rounded attack.

With the bowling resources that Imran had, Dhoni would fare much better than what he did with his pace bowlers. Imran deserves cricket for the success of Wasim and Waqar, but the fact is that Imran did not have a magic wand. There were players who could not develop into anything special under him.

He unlocked the potential of Wasim and Waqar, but what can a captain do when there is no potential to be unlocked? Wasim and Waqar would have been great bowlers under any captain in any era. Imran was fortunate enough to lead the side at a time when two ATG bowling talents emerged in the space of few years.

It is obviously hard to overlook the impact and legacy Imran and Wasim have created, but Pakistan cricket would have been - and will be - better served with batting heroes.

In 1994, Wasim was 28 and he was already an ATG with a bowling average of 22.86 in tests (244 wickets in 57 tests) and 22.48 average in ODIs (262 wickets in 181 matches) with a MoM award in a world cup final.

Imran vs Dhoni is as bad a comparison as Kohli vs Akmal. Imran is a bonafide legend in all formats he played. Dhoni is a one format player who was lucky to lead an ATG team. Dhoni won a world cup in India facing SL in India. Imran won a world cup in Australia with a rookie team. Imran, the batsman, has more run than Dhoni in world cup and has done something which Dhoni is yet to do in his career and that is scoring a century outside Asia in any format. Anyone who picks Dhoni over Imran should be banned from commenting on cricket.
 
In 1994, Wasim was 28 and he was already an ATG with a bowling average of 22.86 in tests (244 wickets in 57 tests) and 22.48 average in ODIs (262 wickets in 181 matches) with a MoM award in a world cup final.

Imran vs Dhoni is as bad a comparison as Kohli vs Akmal. Imran is a bonafide legend in all formats he played. Dhoni is a one format player who was lucky to lead an ATG team. Dhoni won a world cup in India facing SL in India. Imran won a world cup in Australia with a rookie team. Imran, the batsman, has more run than Dhoni in world cup and has done something which Dhoni is yet to do in his career and that is scoring a century outside Asia in any format. Anyone who picks Dhoni over Imran should be banned from commenting on cricket.

And Wasim did not achieve anything substantial after the mid 90s because of his diabetese and dishonesty. Kohli is almost as good at 29 as Wasim was at 28, but considering his fitness and hunger, 2018-2028 should be better for him than what 1994-2003 was for Wasim.

Dhoni is severely underrated on this forum. He is the best ODI captain of all time and the second best WK batsman in the format after Gilchrist. The World Cup and the team were not handed to him. He took over an aging side and changed the complexion of the Indian team.

He took over from where Ganguly left. India were lucky to have a legendary captain take over from a legendary captain and avoid what happened to Pakistan cricket after Wasim. Imran left a team that could dominate the world but Wasim made sure that it did not.
 
Wasim got a freehand because of the ********* of Justice Qayyum. It does not mean that he was not proven.

Kohli is on his way to becoming the greatest ODI batsman of all time. Similarly, Wasim is also considered the best in his disciple in ODI cricket, although he has to share the title with McGrath for most people. By the time Kohli retires, it will probably down to him and Viv only.

He is also an ATG Test batsman in the making, and like Wasim, he is not going to be the best ever in this format (unless he does something extraordinary in the next decade).

Yes a great World Cup has eluded him so far, but he still has two World Cups to go. Only a fool would right him off, and if he does not dominate next year or in 2023, it would certainly be eye-opening and would tarnish his legacy.

However, the fierce competitor that he is, I fully expect him to deliver.

He is also a very revolutionary cricketer. Wasim has given birth to left-arm pacers and because of Kohli, we would see batsmen in the mould of Kohli in the future. He has already inspired the young cricketers around the world with his fitness, and he is the first batsman ever to be a top order anchor and a finisher rolled into one.

Yes it is true that the job of the number 3 batsman is to be the best batsman in the team and score big, but Kohli is the first number 3 in history to not only score big but also finish the job.

He is top order anchor + a finisher. No batsman has ever done that in the past. He does not set the platform for others and nor does he bank on the others setting the platform for him; he sets the platform for himself and finishes the game off. He grabs the bull by the horns and runs away with it like no batsman before him.

He is literally a two in one batsman. He is Tendulkar/Ponting and Dhoni/Bevan rolled into one.

He has changed the way people view ODI batting, and has shown the world that targets can be chased down with brutal efficiency. The fact that he is the greatest run chaser in history by far alone makes him a highly revolutionary cricketer.

As a player, he is every bit as good as Wasim and he is also a man of integrity who will not sell the team and will not chicken out of a World Cup QF against his arch rivals due to an "injury", so yes I will take Kohli over Wasim in my team.

An ATG who averages 35 in 12 tournament finals/semi-finals without a hundred.

Yeah, Wasim had nightmares bowling to Indian batsmen in 1996 when he averaged 23 against them with 36 wickets.
 
Wasim got a freehand because of the ********* of Justice Qayyum. It does not mean that he was not proven.

Kohli is on his way to becoming the greatest ODI batsman of all time. Similarly, Wasim is also considered the best in his disciple in ODI cricket, although he has to share the title with McGrath for most people. By the time Kohli retires, it will probably down to him and Viv only.

He is also an ATG Test batsman in the making, and like Wasim, he is not going to be the best ever in this format (unless he does something extraordinary in the next decade).

Yes a great World Cup has eluded him so far, but he still has two World Cups to go. Only a fool would right him off, and if he does not dominate next year or in 2023, it would certainly be eye-opening and would tarnish his legacy.

However, the fierce competitor that he is, I fully expect him to deliver.

He is also a very revolutionary cricketer. Wasim has given birth to left-arm pacers and because of Kohli, we would see batsmen in the mould of Kohli in the future. He has already inspired the young cricketers around the world with his fitness, and he is the first batsman ever to be a top order anchor and a finisher rolled into one.

Yes it is true that the job of the number 3 batsman is to be the best batsman in the team and score big, but Kohli is the first number 3 in history to not only score big but also finish the job.

He is top order anchor + a finisher. No batsman has ever done that in the past. He does not set the platform for others and nor does he bank on the others setting the platform for him; he sets the platform for himself and finishes the game off. He grabs the bull by the horns and runs away with it like no batsman before him.

He is literally a two in one batsman. He is Tendulkar/Ponting and Dhoni/Bevan rolled into one.

He has changed the way people view ODI batting, and has shown the world that targets can be chased down with brutal efficiency. The fact that he is the greatest run chaser in history by far alone makes him a highly revolutionary cricketer.

As a player, he is every bit as good as Wasim and he is also a man of integrity who will not sell the team and will not chicken out of a World Cup QF against his arch rivals due to an "injury", so yes I will take Kohli over Wasim in my team.
Once again, any batsman who carries bat and finishes the job, cannot be considered a finisher. Kholi has done it more times than others and is remarkabley consistent. Yet, he is not the best finisher, that honor belongs to Bevan, nor is the best top order bat, that belongs to Viv. Ponting chases down servers games in his heyday coming in at #3 but he never needed to to score big because he had batsman around as good as him.

VK’s fitness mantra is not revolutionary, if anything, it has been a combination of a rigorous cricketing schedule that has forced cricketers to keep themselves in better shape. You don’t play 5 T20 leagues + International cricket if you are an obese sportsman. It has come out of necessity, not VK’s chubby cheeks being trimmed.

If he performs in the WC and takes his team over the line, he can be counted as an ODI ATG. Even his Test achievement still have been mundane so far. No overseas victories just scoring with the bat. Not to mention the “bravado” that he established within the current Indian setup. It can be seen through Shastri shivering at the sight of losing his job because VK is an untouchable commodity.

If VK scores 30 more centuries, finishes with an average of 60+, wins overseas series in ENG and NZ, and wins atleast 1 WC than I will consider him the equal of Wasim Akram.
 
Once again, any batsman who carries bat and finishes the job, cannot be considered a finisher. Kholi has done it more times than others and is remarkabley consistent. Yet, he is not the best finisher, that honor belongs to Bevan, nor is the best top order bat, that belongs to Viv. Ponting chases down servers games in his heyday coming in at #3 but he never needed to to score big because he had batsman around as good as him.

VK’s fitness mantra is not revolutionary, if anything, it has been a combination of a rigorous cricketing schedule that has forced cricketers to keep themselves in better shape. You don’t play 5 T20 leagues + International cricket if you are an obese sportsman. It has come out of necessity, not VK’s chubby cheeks being trimmed.

If he performs in the WC and takes his team over the line, he can be counted as an ODI ATG. Even his Test achievement still have been mundane so far. No overseas victories just scoring with the bat. Not to mention the “bravado” that he established within the current Indian setup. It can be seen through Shastri shivering at the sight of losing his job because VK is an untouchable commodity.

If VK scores 30 more centuries, finishes with an average of 60+, wins overseas series in ENG and NZ, and wins atleast 1 WC than I will consider him the equal of Wasim Akram.

several*
 
And Wasim did not achieve anything substantial after the mid 90s because of his diabetese and dishonesty. Kohli is almost as good at 29 as Wasim was at 28, but considering his fitness and hunger, 2018-2028 should be better for him than what 1994-2003 was for Wasim.

Dhoni is severely underrated on this forum. He is the best ODI captain of all time and the second best WK batsman in the format after Gilchrist. The World Cup and the team were not handed to him. He took over an aging side and changed the complexion of the Indian team.

He took over from where Ganguly left. India were lucky to have a legendary captain take over from a legendary captain and avoid what happened to Pakistan cricket after Wasim. Imran left a team that could dominate the world but Wasim made sure that it did not.

When Kohli has won a world cup then come back and make a claim that he is better than Wasim. Till that happens, Wasim is a superior cricketer to Kohli. If you consider Wasim's batting, then he completely blows away Kohli. Even as a captain, he was tactically better than Kohli.

Yes, the team was handed to him. He has an ATG team with several players in their peak years. Anyone would have won the world cup at home with such team. Clarke did it with a much inferior team 4 years later. Ponting won 2 world cups as captain.
 
Once again, any batsman who carries bat and finishes the job, cannot be considered a finisher. Kholi has done it more times than others and is remarkabley consistent. Yet, he is not the best finisher, that honor belongs to Bevan, nor is the best top order bat, that belongs to Viv. Ponting chases down servers games in his heyday coming in at #3 but he never needed to to score big because he had batsman around as good as him.

VK’s fitness mantra is not revolutionary, if anything, it has been a combination of a rigorous cricketing schedule that has forced cricketers to keep themselves in better shape. You don’t play 5 T20 leagues + International cricket if you are an obese sportsman. It has come out of necessity, not VK’s chubby cheeks being trimmed.

If he performs in the WC and takes his team over the line, he can be counted as an ODI ATG. Even his Test achievement still have been mundane so far. No overseas victories just scoring with the bat. Not to mention the “bravado” that he established within the current Indian setup. It can be seen through Shastri shivering at the sight of losing his job because VK is an untouchable commodity.

If VK scores 30 more centuries, finishes with an average of 60+, wins overseas series in ENG and NZ, and wins atleast 1 WC than I will consider him the equal of Wasim Akram.

Kohli is the best chaser of all time. A chaser is both an anchor and a finisher.

Viv is the better top-order player at this point. However, Kohli needs an iconic World Cup innings to surpass him. An innings that would define his career. Whether he is a better finisher than Bevan or not is debatable, but you cannot get any better at finishing games off than Kohli. Bevan can be considered in the same class, but how much better can you be as a finisher?

It is not about not having the need. Ponting did not get out before finishing games because he had other batsmen; he got out because he was not anywhere close to Kohli when it comes chasing totals.

Kohli is already an ODI ATG even if fails in every World Cup that he plays from now. However, to be the GOAT, he needs to dominate a World Cup.

If Kohli scores 60+ ODI hundreds at a 60+ average and wins India multiple World Cups, he will make Wasim look like Mickey Mouse, let alone become his equal. He is already in his league as a player, and whether or not he ends up as a better cricketer depends on how he finishes his career.

The first half of his career has been almost as good as Wasim's, but Wasim's second half was underwhelming because of match-fixing and fitness problems, and I do not see Kohli suffering because of the same.

Kohli's fitness regime is revolutionary because he has taken it to the next level. He is not the only player who plays so much cricket, but no one took fitness as seriously as he does. He found the motivation and now he is inspiring others.

Obviously he would have been less concerned about his fitness 20-30 years back, but that does not make him any less revolutionary.
 
When Kohli has won a world cup then come back and make a claim that he is better than Wasim. Till that happens, Wasim is a superior cricketer to Kohli. If you consider Wasim's batting, then he completely blows away Kohli. Even as a captain, he was tactically better than Kohli.

Yes, the team was handed to him. He has an ATG team with several players in their peak years. Anyone would have won the world cup at home with such team. Clarke did it with a much inferior team 4 years later. Ponting won 2 world cups as captain.

I said Kohli is "almost as good" at 29 as Wasim at 28. Almost because Wasim was the leading wicket-taker in the 1992 World Cup. If Kohli dominates the World Cup next year, he will be not be almost as good anymore. He will be as good.

However, success has many fathers. One can cannot win a World Cup on his own, and whether Kohli wins a World Cup or not in his career depends on his teammates as well. However, there will be no excuses for him if he does not dominate a World Cup with his bat.

Both Clarke and Ponting had world class batsmen and bowlers. Dhoni had world class batsmen only, he took full advantage of part-timers and other bowlers who were not even good enough to wipe the shoes of the bowlers that Ponting and Clarke had at their disposal.

Dhoni's best bowler was Zaheer. A fine bowler, but nowhere near McGrath, Starc etc.
 
I am from India and I would swap Kohli and Dhoni with Imran,Wasim or even Akhtar . We have way too many batsmen and but lack good aggressive fast bowlers. Kids in India would have had an inspiration to bowl fast if they saw somebody like Imran or Akhtar tearing it out.
 
I said Kohli is "almost as good" at 29 as Wasim at 28. Almost because Wasim was the leading wicket-taker in the 1992 World Cup. If Kohli dominates the World Cup next year, he will be not be almost as good anymore. He will be as good.

However, success has many fathers. One can cannot win a World Cup on his own, and whether Kohli wins a World Cup or not in his career depends on his teammates as well. However, there will be no excuses for him if he does not dominate a World Cup with his bat.

Both Clarke and Ponting had world class batsmen and bowlers. Dhoni had world class batsmen only, he took full advantage of part-timers and other bowlers who were not even good enough to wipe the shoes of the bowlers that Ponting and Clarke had at their disposal.

Dhoni's best bowler was Zaheer. A fine bowler, but nowhere near McGrath, Starc etc.

ODIs are won by batsmen. How many world class batsman did Clarke had? Not a single member of his team (except Starc) has a chance to make the ATG Aussie XI.
 
Kohli is the best chaser of all time. A chaser is both an anchor and a finisher.

Viv is the better top-order player at this point. However, Kohli needs an iconic World Cup innings to surpass him. An innings that would define his career. Whether he is a better finisher than Bevan or not is debatable, but you cannot get any better at finishing games off than Kohli. Bevan can be considered in the same class, but how much better can you be as a finisher?

It is not about not having the need. Ponting did not get out before finishing games because he had other batsmen; he got out because he was not anywhere close to Kohli when it comes chasing totals.

Kohli is already an ODI ATG even if fails in every World Cup that he plays from now. However, to be the GOAT, he needs to dominate a World Cup.

If Kohli scores 60+ ODI hundreds at a 60+ average and wins India multiple World Cups, he will make Wasim look like Mickey Mouse, let alone become his equal. He is already in his league as a player, and whether or not he ends up as a better cricketer depends on how he finishes his career.

The first half of his career has been almost as good as Wasim's, but Wasim's second half was underwhelming because of match-fixing and fitness problems, and I do not see Kohli suffering because of the same.

Kohli's fitness regime is revolutionary because he has taken it to the next level. He is not the only player who plays so much cricket, but no one took fitness as seriously as he does. He found the motivation and now he is inspiring others.

Obviously he would have been less concerned about his fitness 20-30 years back, but that does not make him any less revolutionary.
Bevan has played innings that have not been equaled anywhere close in ODI cricket. AUS would not have won either the 96 or the 99 WC has it not been for his contributions with the bat when the team was 5 down for less than 70.

Virat Kholi has not revolutionized fitness. Rather, he has improved his own and markets products such as headphones or gym shoes on IG. That is not revolutionizing my man, that is a marketing strategy. He has shown that if you improve your fitness, you can become a better player. Yet he is not the first one to do so, with Ponting giving up alcohol after troubles early on and Shoaib putting on muscle and bowing at 95+.

Coming to Wasim’s second half, yes it was plagued by injuries, politics, match-fixing suspicions, lack of support from the board. But you have to take into account, this is the man who used insulin injections everyday multiple times just to play the game he loved. That’s over 15 injections per a Test match. No bower has matched his spell against the WI during the 3rd Test in the 2000 series. 11 wickets ( should have been all 20 if not for the dubious umpiring ), that too an over-the-hill, diabetic, emotionally destabilized pariah version who still knocked the likes of Ponting and Gilly in consecutive balls at the height of their might.

Here’s the bottom line [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]. VK cannot be the Wasim Akram of batting because he is not as versatile nor is he universally recognized as the best. Kapil Dev, the other day, stayed that VK needs to perform in England, to be considere one of the best in this era. He is not even the best amongst his countrymen, Sachin wipes the floor with him, while Wasim is regarded as THE best fast bowler by his bowler and batsman compatriots.
 
Last edited:
There is no comparison between Wasim and Kohli at this point if we consider tests as well. For the same reason, there is no comparison between Imran and Dhoni.

If only LOIs are concerned, I'd pick Kohli and Dhoni.
 
Back
Top