Pakistan has debuted 32 Players in T20I's since 2020, the most by any team, has this led to their downfall?

[ahmedwaqas92]

Interesting little facet here, Pakistan has debuted 32 players in T20 since 2020 which is the most by any Test-playing nation. Similarly, India has the second most debuts among the same set of teams. The lowest number of debuts is that by England while the second lowest is by Australia (Funnily enough, both teams have won the T20 Cup in recent times).

As much as I would not want to correlate this to our downfall, I do feel that constant rotation might have some form of effect in terms of allowing a unit to settle and execute plans on the field. I pulled this data in less than 10 minutes over Wikipedia, why can't our analysts do the same and maybe advise on allowing players to settle and perform rather than trying to win the cricket lottery every tournament?

Discuss.

Team	Players Debuted (Since 2020)	WT20 2021	WT20 2022
Pakistan	32	Final 4	Runners Up
India	28	Group Stages	Final 4
England	9	Final 4	Winners
Australia	15	Winners	Group Stages
South Africa	16	Group Stages	Group Stages
New Zealand	21	Final 4	Runners Up
Sri Lanka	23	Group Stages	Group Stages
Afghanistan	17	Group Stages	Group Stages

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Interesting little facet here, Pakistan has debuted 32 players in T20 since 2020 which is the most by any Test-playing nation. Similarly, India has the second most debuts among the same set of teams. The lowest number of debuts is that by England while the second lowest is by Australia (Funnily enough, both teams have won the T20 Cup in recent times).

As much as I would not want to correlate this to our downfall, I do feel that constant rotation might have some form of effect in terms of allowing a unit to settle and execute plans on the field. I pulled this data in less than 10 minutes over Wikipedia, why can't our analysts do the same and maybe advise on allowing players to settle and perform rather than trying to win the cricket lottery every tournament?

Discuss.

Team	Players Debuted (Since 2020)	WT20 2021	WT20 2022
Pakistan	32	Final 4	Runners Up
India	28	Group Stages	Final 4
England	9	Final 4	Winners
Australia	15	Winners	Group Stages
South Africa	16	Group Stages	Group Stages
New Zealand	21	Final 4	Runners Up
Sri Lanka	23	Group Stages	Group Stages
Afghanistan	17	Group Stages	Group Stages

How many games have each side played over that period?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

And none of them has been given a proper chance to display his talent.

 

[TeymurBlake]

That shows many have been tried, however some definitely needed a more of a run.

But you could say, some of the talent tried like Ahsan Ali, have been atrocious.

 

[mazkhan]

Breaks the myth that babar management dont try new players.

 

[Asad T]

How many games have each side played over that period?

Pakistan: 87
India: 93
England: 68
Australia: 66
South Africa: 58
New Zealand: 90
Sri Lanka: 66
Afghanistan: 52

So if you make it into a ratio, Pak is the leader of the pack:

	Number of Debutants since 2020	Matches played since 2020	Debutants per game since 2020
Pak	32​	87​	0.37​
India	28​	93​	0.30​
England	9​	68​	0.13​
Aus	15​	66​	0.23​
RSA	16​	58​	0.28​
NZ	21​	90​	0.23​
SL	23​	66​	0.35​
Afgn	17​	52​	0.33​

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Clearly the domestic system is not working or is Afridi right after all that there is no talent?

We used to have 2 or 3 Babars at once and now we only have one once every 10 years.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Breaks the myth that babar management dont try new players.

The people who peddle those myths will keep getting slapped by stats.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Interesting little facet here, Pakistan has debuted 32 players in T20 since 2020 which is the most by any Test-playing nation. Similarly, India has the second most debuts among the same set of teams. The lowest number of debuts is that by England while the second lowest is by Australia (Funnily enough, both teams have won the T20 Cup in recent times).

As much as I would not want to correlate this to our downfall, I do feel that constant rotation might have some form of effect in terms of allowing a unit to settle and execute plans on the field. I pulled this data in less than 10 minutes over Wikipedia, why can't our analysts do the same and maybe advise on allowing players to settle and perform rather than trying to win the cricket lottery every tournament?

Discuss.

Team	Players Debuted (Since 2020)	WT20 2021	WT20 2022
Pakistan	32	Final 4	Runners Up
India	28	Group Stages	Final 4
England	9	Final 4	Winners
Australia	15	Winners	Group Stages
South Africa	16	Group Stages	Group Stages
New Zealand	21	Final 4	Runners Up
Sri Lanka	23	Group Stages	Group Stages
Afghanistan	17	Group Stages	Group Stages

How many bowlers and how many batters?

 

[Concerned]

Assuming the international team has given more debuts than PSL

 

[jnaveen1980]

How many bowlers and how many batters?

32 players. ignore the first line. Not sure who is bowler who is batsmen in this. Token debuts?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

32 players. ignore the first line. Not sure who is bowler who is batsmen in this. Token debuts?

wow too many bowlers!

 

[jnaveen1980]

Correct me if i am wrong. Some of them should have never played T20.

 

[Asad T]

If you give a 'success score' to T20 outcomes as follows:

Winner = 10 points
Runner up = 7 points
Final 4 = 4 points
exit in group stages = 0 points

And if you compare Debutants per Game vs Success Score", there is actually quite a clear inverse correlation. And of course, Pakistan is a bit of an outlier.

 

[hassan918]

I wonder how many of these players were given proper chance to showcase their talent and skills.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If the list post by @jnaveen1980 is the definitive list then the explanation is simple.

Many of those players debuted in the Asian games which had international status even though the players were A team players and it was essentially an A team tournament. You can attribute 7 debuts to those games.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

32 players. ignore the first line. Not sure who is bowler who is batsmen in this. Token debuts?

So these were the most impressive.

Rauf
Abrar
Abbas Afridi
Saim
Ihsanullah
Naseem

Actually that's a good outcome so perhaps high volume is the way to go.

Not a lot of good batting talent coming through however.

 

[Savak]

Pakistani junior players are not making the most of their chances. The likes of Khusdil Shah, Asif Ali, Haider Ali got more than sufficient chances and they should have made the most of it. Even Saim Ayub is sadly heading in that direction as well.

 

[Buffet]

50 players playing 50 matche together is not really better than 5 players playing 50 match together.

How many Pakistani players played 10+ T20 from this list?

 

[jnaveen1980]

50 players playing 50 matche together is not really better than 5 players playing 50 match together.

How many Pakistani players played 10+ T20 from this list?

About 7 players

 

[Savak]

About 7 players

That's a decent number of chances. This is on the players to make the most of the opportunities. In ten games they should be able to perform big time in atleast 5.

 

[jnaveen1980]

That's a decent number of chances. This is on the players to make the most of the opportunities. In ten games they should be able to perform big time in atleast 5.

How is the selection process in Pakistan? Is it first class based or PSL based or some other league based? In India most of the Indian player would have represented under-19. That has been the case since Yuvraj singh. Then few does well in dometic. Very few directly from IPL. Pandya, Bumrah, SKY are few exceptions.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

32 players. ignore the first line. Not sure who is bowler who is batsmen in this. Token debuts?

A number of these players only played for Pakistan in the Asian Games where Pakistan sent their third or fourth string team. I don't think its fair to include them with the rest. It was a one time thing. They were never in the selectors plans.

 

[Master Blaster]

One more statistical hogwash...

 

[Savak]

How is the selection process in Pakistan? Is it first class based or PSL based or some other league based? In India most of the Indian player would have represented under-19. That has been the case since Yuvraj singh. Then few does well in dometic. Very few directly from IPL. Pandya, Bumrah, SKY are few exceptions.

India benefits from paying their national and domestic players so much money in exchange for exclusivity to Indian domestic cricket, they don't need to play and abandon their domestic cricket in exchange for playing in foreign leagues. End result almost every Indian Cricketer in the PSL or the Indian team has a significant amount of domestic 4 day experience and A team experience before they come into the team.

Sadly Pakistan's domestic structure has been a mess for a long time, domestic players were under paid for a long time, now they get paid better but they don't get paid on time, domestic selections is a mess, domestic coaches are not good enough. On top of that, the Pakistani Cricket economy is not big enough to demand exclusivity from players hence why domestic players are able to secure Nocs for T20 leagues.

There was a famous twitter post on Shubman Gill vs Ali Zaryab where both played in the U19 WC together for India and Pakistan but today Gill had played a total of 60 domestic, A team, IPL and Indian games whereas Ali Zaryab had only played 6 domestic games since that U19 WC during the same time and then we question why Pakistan is not developing players.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Number of Debutants since 2020	Matches played since 2020	Debutants per game since 2020
Pak	32​	87​	0.37​
India	28​	93​	0.30​
England	9​	68​	0.13​
Aus	15​	66​	0.23​
RSA	16​	58​	0.28​
NZ	21​	90​	0.23​
SL	23​	66​	0.35​
Afgn	17​	52​	0.33​

I don't know If anybody noticed this or not but if you look at the list you will see that Asian sides are the ones experimenting too much. Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan. Not many proper chances were given from that list of Pakistan players shows that we are experimenting too much and some of them proved to be a 1 match wonders and then just vanished.

 

[emranabbas]

Flawd stats babar fans are jumping and down for no reason


It would be nice if the was another section giving the numbers of games given to those players who were given chance

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It is not about the number of debutantes. In fact, the more the number, the more confused that team is.

It's about backing the best talent for longer periods of time.

The likes of Mohammad Haris need to be backed and given enough matches at the international level.

Look at someone like Will Jacks. His T20I career has been absolutely mediocre until now, averaging 16 with the bat and an economy of 9.5 with the ball. But England are taking him to the World Cup.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Look at someone like Will Jacks. His T20I career has been absolutely mediocre until now, averaging 16 with the bat and an economy of 9.5 with the ball. But England are taking him to the World Cup.

He can bowl a bit which is why he has an extra advantage. His strike rate is 150 in t20s with around 17 average. While haris is yet another keeper but Pakistan already has RIzwan, azam, usman in he team, and Haris's psl was worst playing at the top-order spot. It's not good enough to get a selection call. Fair call? I guess so

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He can bowl a bit which is why he has an extra advantage. His strike rate is 150 in t20s with around 17 average. While haris is yet another keeper but Pakistan already has RIzwan, azam, usman in he team, and Haris's psl was worst playing at the top-order spot. It's not good enough to get a selection call. Fair call? I guess so

Not being selected now is probably fair but he should not have been dropped in the first place . Also I mentioned that Will Jacks has an economy of 9.5 in T20I's. Point is they have stuck with him .

 

[BouncerGuy]

Not being selected now is probably fair but he should not have been dropped in the first place . Also I mentioned that Will Jacks has an economy of 9.5 in T20I's. Point is they have stuck with him .

Yeah. he was rested So-called for that New Zealand away tour and then it was all down hill for him.

 

[Rana]

Correct me if i am wrong. Some of them should have never played T20.

Shan Masood
Imam ul Haq
Mohammad Rizwan


No business playing T20 whatsoever

 

[Mamoon]

Examples of South Africa, Afghanistan and Sri Lanka show that there is no correlation between performances in T20 World Cups and number of players getting caps.

This is a totally random statistic but appreciate the effort and thought process behind it.

It is refreshing to see something different.

 

[FearlessRoar]

The downfall of Pakistan cricket actually started after the introduction of the T20 format in cricket

 

[Energy]

Like everything in life, Pakistanis like to take a laid back and tension-free approach.

Throw darts on the board and something will stick.

Who has got the time and energy to go through the challenging domestic grind, mitigate the flaws, improve the game and work their way up. Even Pakistani selectors and coaches don't do that but ensure they take their salaries on the 1st of each month.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Examples of South Africa, Afghanistan and Sri Lanka show that there is no correlation between performances in T20 World Cups and number of players getting caps.

This is a totally random statistic but appreciate the effort and thought process behind it.

It is refreshing to see something different.

India and Pakistan have higher number of debutantes because both teams participated in the Asian Games with their 2nd string squads and those matches had t20i status.

 

[Mamoon]

India and Pakistan have higher number of debutantes because both teams participated in the Asian Games with their 2nd string squads and those matches had t20i status.

So then I take my words back and I no longer appreciate the thought process behind this thread because there wasn’t any.

 

[Buffet]

About 7 players

That's a good number. 7 players got a decent number of chance.

 

[emranabbas]

Excluding all the Asian Games, there are 19 players who have debuted for Pakistan since 2022, but only a handful have been given a proper opportunity to prove themselves.

Name	Matches	Debut Year
Ammar Jamal	5	2022
Abbas Afridi	6	2024
Abdullah Shafiq	6	2022
Abrar Ahmed	3	2024
Arshad Iqbal	1	2021
Ahsan Ali	2	2020
Azam Khan	6	2021
Danish Aziz	2	2021
Fahim Ashraf	20	2020
Haider Ali	33	2020
Harris Rauf	53	2020
Haseebullah	1	2024
Irfan Khan	3	2024
Muhammed Harris	6	2022
Muhammed Wasim	27	2021
Shah Nawaz Dahni	9	2021
Shan masood	18	2022
Usama Mir	5	2024
Usman Khan	5	2024
Usman Qadir	22	2022
Zaman Khan	7	2023

most games played since 2020

Babar Azam 65
Muhammed Rizwan 64
harris rauf 53
Iftikhar Chacha 45
Shadab Khan 44
Shaheen Shah 44
Fakhar 36
Muhammed nawaz 35

 

[Buffet]

India and Pakistan have higher number of debutantes because both teams participated in the Asian Games with their 2nd string squads and those matches had t20i status.

Oh, we should exclude them to see meaningful number of debutantes.

 

[Buffet]

Excluding all the Asian Games, there are 19 players who have debuted for Pakistan since 2022, but only a handful have been given a proper opportunity to prove themselves.

Name	Matches	Debut Year
Ammar Jamal	5	2022
Abbas Afridi	6	2024
Abdullah Shafiq	6	2022
Abrar Ahmed	3	2024
Arshad Iqbal	1	2021
Ahsan Ali	2	2020
Azam Khan	6	2021
Danish Aziz	2	2021
Fahim Ashraf	20	2020
Haider Ali	33	2020
Harris Rauf	53	2020
Haseebullah	1	2024
Irfan Khan	3	2024
Muhammed Harris	6	2022
Muhammed Wasim	27	2021
Shah Nawaz Dahni	9	2021
Shan masood	18	2022
Usama Mir	5	2024
Usman Khan	5	2024
Usman Qadir	22	2022
Zaman Khan	7	2023

most games played since 2020

Babar Azam 65
Muhammed Rizwan 64
harris rauf 53
Iftikhar Chacha 45
Shadab Khan 44
Shaheen Shah 44
Fakhar 36
Muhammed nawaz 35

So total 6 players have given chance for Pakistan in T20 format in the last 4-5 years. That's like 1 player each year.

I think more new players could be given longer runs because main players don't need to play all T20 games.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

The downfall of Pakistan cricket actually started after the introduction of the T20 format in cricket

Not really. The impact of T20 cricket on decline of traditional cricket is massively overstated .

Pakistan cricket has already peaked by 1999.

In fact, T20 and PSL has revived it somewhat.

 

[Rana]

Excluding all the Asian Games, there are 19 players who have debuted for Pakistan since 2022, but only a handful have been given a proper opportunity to prove themselves.

Name	Matches	Debut Year
Ammar Jamal	5	2022
Abbas Afridi	6	2024
Abdullah Shafiq	6	2022
Abrar Ahmed	3	2024
Arshad Iqbal	1	2021
Ahsan Ali	2	2020
Azam Khan	6	2021
Danish Aziz	2	2021
Fahim Ashraf	20	2020
Haider Ali	33	2020
Harris Rauf	53	2020
Haseebullah	1	2024
Irfan Khan	3	2024
Muhammed Harris	6	2022
Muhammed Wasim	27	2021
Shah Nawaz Dahni	9	2021
Shan masood	18	2022
Usama Mir	5	2024
Usman Khan	5	2024
Usman Qadir	22	2022
Zaman Khan	7	2023

most games played since 2020

Babar Azam 65
Muhammed Rizwan 64
harris rauf 53
Iftikhar Chacha 45
Shadab Khan 44
Shaheen Shah 44
Fakhar 36
Muhammed nawaz 35

Excellent post

Shan Masood 18 T20s…

Just goes to show where Pakistan’s faulty priorities are

 

[emranabbas]

So total 6 players have given chance for Pakistan in T20 format in the last 4-5 years. That's like 1 player each year.

I think more new players could be given longer runs because main players don't need to play all T20 games.

Rizwan, Babar, Chacha, etc., don't need to participate in every game, this opens up opportunities for new players to face C/D teams since we dont have any A tours

 

[jnaveen1980]

India and Pakistan have higher number of debutantes because both teams participated in the Asian Games with their 2nd string squads and those matches had t20i status.

India sent regular guys. India has higher debutants because India sent two teams at the same time in the last few years.

 

[emranabbas]

Excellent post

Shan Masood 18 T20s…

Just goes to show where Pakistan’s faulty priorities are

7 or 9 games he played in world cup

 

[Rana]

7 or 9 games he played in world cup

Catastrophe. I would rather be shot out for 50 runs in 5 overs than play these kinds of players in T20 cricket.