Pakistan India (didn't happen) peace deal according to Rauf Klasara

[Pakpak]

Klasra in his Vlog said that there were back door channel talks between Bajwa, Faiz with Indian leaders and Indian intelligence, intense discussions. Went on for a year or so, the plan was Pakistan would agree to 'freeze' the Kashmir issue for 20 years, India and Pakistan would both agree to cut down and withdraw forces from LOC, open borders and resume trade and normalise all relations. Modi would then come for a 10 day tour, visiting Hindu shrines and meeting Pakistani leaders announcing the treaty.

According to Klasra, Imran Khan rejected this and said not till there is some movement on Kashmir issue and said army leadership is very poor as everyone will be blasted by the media and people if people agreed to freeze the Kashmir issue and Pakistanis would never forgive the estb or the political party for this.

What is your opinion? Was this deal a missed chance or were Pakistan giving away too much?

 

[Pakpak]

He adds:

After all the above was agreed with the Indians Bajwa invited all the big journalists. And said we have a big breakthrough with India but we need support from the media. Said that we do not want or can afford wars financially with India.

 

[Pakpak]

Klasra added it was Qureshi who convinced Imran Khan to reject the deal.

 

[Bewal Express]

Klasra in his Vlog said that there were back door channel talks between Bajwa, Faiz with Indian leaders and Indian intelligence, intense discussions. Went on for a year or so, the plan was Pakistan would agree to 'freeze' the Kashmir issue for 20 years, India and Pakistan would both agree to cut down and withdraw forces from LOC, open borders and resume trade and normalise all relations. Modi would then come for a 10 day tour, visiting Hindu shrines and meeting Pakistani leaders announcing the treaty.

According to Klasra, Imran Khan rejected this and said not till there is some movement on Kashmir issue and said army leadership is very poor as everyone will be blasted by the media and people if people agreed to freeze the Kashmir issue and Pakistanis would never forgive the estb or the political party for this.

What is your opinion? Was this deal a missed chance or were Pakistan giving away too much?

So the plan was for IK to take the heat and then Bajwa blames IK for betraying Kashmir. Bajwa also gave an NRO to NS and AZ and people blamed IK foe that too. We need good relations with Ind but Kashmir can't be wished away and no PK leader can sell their desire for freedom from Ind imperialism

 

[Bewal Express]

Bajwa also wanted PK to recognise Israel but he wanted IK to take the heat.

 

[Pakpak]

So the plan was for IK to take the heat and then Bajwa blames IK for betraying Kashmir. Bajwa also gave an NRO to NS and AZ and people blamed IK foe that too. We need good relations with Ind but Kashmir can't be wished away and no PK leader can sell their desire for freedom from Ind imperialism

Yes, in the end it would have been Imran who would have had to take the heat. Apparently he was told by Qureshi he could follow the army's lead in this or risk his political career if things go wrong as he'd get all the blame

 

[JaDed]

Did IK reject the deal or get cold feet? If it’s to be believed it went till the end and then he rejected it means he was on board initially..

 

[Pakpak]

Did IK reject the deal or get cold feet? If it’s to be believed it went till the end and then he rejected it means he was on board initially..

It was given to him, the deal I mean, Qureshi (his FM) told him not to take it for the reasons above.

I might have taken the peace deal (probably would have) however from his POV his fears were correct. His trip to Russia was agreed with the Army but they left him to the wolves when he got blowback, had he received blowback here too they'd left him to face it.

Over time Pakistan has 3 options:

Take Kashmir by force - unlikely
Or become an economic super power to pressure India on the world stage on this issue - unlikely
Or take the best deal on offer

This is my opinion ofcourse

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Did IK reject the deal or get cold feet? If it’s to be believed it went till the end and then he rejected it means he was on board initially..

He would have rejected it instantly.

 

[RajBan]

Why would have Imran faced the heat? I think this was a good deal allowing the countries to focus on other core issues.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Why would have Imran faced the heat? I think this was a good deal allowing the countries to focus on other core issues.

Looks like no party involved wants to anger religious organizations obviously. No Pakistani politician will take the risk of political suicide for the sake of peace between India and Pakistan. Imran Khan is no different.

 

[kumjsr]

So BJP felt it was safe enough option and they could handle the heat from the decision?

 

[RajBan]

Looks like no party involved wants to anger religious organizations obviously. No Pakistani politician will take the risk of political suicide for the sake of peace between India and Pakistan. Imran Khan is no different.

But Army was already onboard and I am sure they would have taken all in confidence.

 

[saeedhk]

Imran Khan is to blame for this missed chance. We need to resume normal relations with India as soon as possible as strong ties with India would massively benefit ordinary Pakistanis due to increased trade and competition. Kudos to Bajwa for trying to make peace with India.

 

[Bewal Express]

Did IK reject the deal or get cold feet? If it’s to be believed it went till the end and then he rejected it means he was on board initially..

He saw the trap. IK is and always has been a peacenik but this was deliberate plan to make him look like a Foreign influenced agent.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Why would have Imran faced the heat? I think this was a good deal allowing the countries to focus on other core issues.

Anything that maintains the status quo is not a good deal for Pakistan.

We need some sort of Northern Ireland type situation - or similar.

Free movement within Kashmir and a significant reduction of armed forces.

That sort of thing could be palatable to Pakistan but I dont think it will be for the Indian side.

 

[IndoorCricket]

This was a golden oppurtunity for both coutries to move ahead and prosper in peace. But religioous fanatics wont allow this to happen.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Fortune favours Modi. He was walking into a Vajpayee Lahore kind of mistake. What was the Guarantee that another Kargil wouldn't happen?


The backlash would have swept away BJP and brought back Congress.

 

[RajBan]

Fortune favours Modi. He was walking into a Vajpayee Lahore kind of mistake. What was the Guarantee that another Kargil wouldn't happen?


The backlash would have swept away BJP and brought back Congress.

If the report is true, then looks like both ISI and COAS was on the same page, so any major event like Kargil could have been easily ruled out. I am sure Doval would have already considered the risks. Ofcourse nobody can rule out small scale disruptions as there are vested interests on either side.

 

[Pakpak]

If the report is true, then looks like both ISI and COAS was on the same page, so any major event like Kargil could have been easily ruled out. I am sure Doval would have already considered the risks. Ofcourse nobody can rule out small scale disruptions as there are vested interests on either side.

Apparently Bajwa admitted Kargil was a mistake and supposedly had spent a great deal talking with all branches of the Pakistans army about making this work and had them all on board before going to speak with the Indians

 

[Pakpak]

If the report is true, then looks like both ISI and COAS was on the same page, so any major event like Kargil could have been easily ruled out. I am sure Doval would have already considered the risks. Ofcourse nobody can rule out small scale disruptions as there are vested interests on either side.

Bajwa and Doval had both agreed on this deal and all the Indians were on-board with this as well*

I'm mixed on this. I'd gone with this deal if I was PM but if it hadn't worked I know 100 percent Bajwa would have thrown Khan under the bus just like he has done on every single domestic issue where army forced Khans hand and then later put the blame on him from sending Nawaz abroad to UK and the issue with Russia.

 

[Pakpak]

Anything that maintains the status quo is not a good deal for Pakistan.

We need some sort of Northern Ireland type situation - or similar.

Free movement within Kashmir and a significant reduction of armed forces.

That sort of thing could be palatable to Pakistan but I dont think it will be for the Indian side.

This too, totally correct

 

[ex-q-zit]

Anything that maintains the status quo is not a good deal for Pakistan.

We need some sort of Northern Ireland type situation - or similar.

Free movement within Kashmir and a significant reduction of armed forces.

That sort of thing could be palatable to Pakistan but I dont think it will be for the Indian side.

@bold: For this to happen firstly, Pakistan would need to publicly assure that they will no longer provide any kind of support to terrorist activities in Kashmir. secondly, they will have to themselves reduce forces in PoK. Surely, Pakistan will never do either of these.

But if this 20 year moratorium had come into fruition it would have been a watershed moment in our history. We all know how much both countries spend on defence. This money could be used for much better things. Also this would have improved people-to-people contact, trade and our image in the world. There would have also been a cultural exchange with actors. singers etc working together. Maybe a Pathaan would release Pakistan and Maula Jatt in India.

On a lighter note we would have seen full fledged cricket series between our teams visiting each other.

 

[KingKhanWC]

@bold: For this to happen firstly, Pakistan would need to publicly assure that they will no longer provide any kind of support to terrorist activities in Kashmir. secondly, they will have to themselves reduce forces in PoK. Surely, Pakistan will never do either of these.

But if this 20 year moratorium had come into fruition it would have been a watershed moment in our history. We all know how much both countries spend on defence. This money could be used for much better things. Also this would have improved people-to-people contact, trade and our image in the world. There would have also been a cultural exchange with actors. singers etc working together. Maybe a Pathaan would release Pakistan and Maula Jatt in India.

On a lighter note we would have seen full fledged cricket series between our teams visiting each other.

lol Indians like yourself have the audacity to blame Pakistan for terrorism when in reality its your nation who has been involved in state terrorism against Muslims in Kashmir. Occuped land ac to Int law.

Kashmiris are freedom fighters and have a moral right to defend themselves against Indian occupiers as they can or wish.

Imran did the right thing, its a dumb plan which would have allowed Indian to expand their state terrorism for 20 years.

 

[ex-q-zit]

lol Indians like yourself have the audacity to blame Pakistan for terrorism when in reality its your nation who has been involved in state terrorism against Muslims in Kashmir. Occuped land ac to Int law.

Kashmiris are freedom fighters and have a moral right to defend themselves against Indian occupiers as they can or wish.

Imran did the right thing, its a dumb plan which would have allowed Indian to expand their state terrorism for 20 years.

Did I say Kashmiris shouldn't fight for their freedom? They have been doing so for decades. All I said was in the context of the poster saying India needs to reduce its forces that as a precursor Pakistan needs to stop extending its support to terrorism. Why are you getting so rattled?

Both the countries are nuclear powers so even a small scale battle like Kargil is unlikely. Neither will India get Gilgit Baltistan not will Pakistan get J&K. This morotarium would atleast reduce the billions we waste on security as military option is ruled out completely. kashiris on our side have to stay with us whether they like it or not and the same goes to kashmiris on the other side. The peace talks was a golden opportunity thats been missed though keyboard warriors would rejoice over it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Did I say Kashmiris shouldn't fight for their freedom? They have been doing so for decades. All I said was in the context of the poster saying India needs to reduce its forces that as a precursor Pakistan needs to stop extending its support to terrorism. Why are you getting so rattled?

Both the countries are nuclear powers so even a small scale battle like Kargil is unlikely. Neither will India get Gilgit Baltistan not will Pakistan get J&K. This morotarium would atleast reduce the billions we waste on security as military option is ruled out completely. kashiris on our side have to stay with us whether they like it or not and the same goes to kashmiris on the other side. The peace talks was a golden opportunity thats been missed though keyboard warriors would rejoice over it.

You called them terrorists or would you like to clarify and be more accurate and call them freedom fighters?

No Indian should come on here to demonise the Kashmiri peoople under occupation.

These were never peace talks. India's Hindu extremist government saw an opportunity to make a deal which would mean 20 years RSS can further abuse people without Pak speaking out or supporting the resistance.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@bold: For this to happen firstly, Pakistan would need to publicly assure that they will no longer provide any kind of support to terrorist activities in Kashmir. secondly, they will have to themselves reduce forces in PoK. Surely, Pakistan will never do either of these.

But if this 20 year moratorium had come into fruition it would have been a watershed moment in our history. We all know how much both countries spend on defence. This money could be used for much better things. Also this would have improved people-to-people contact, trade and our image in the world. There would have also been a cultural exchange with actors. singers etc working together. Maybe a Pathaan would release Pakistan and Maula Jatt in India.

On a lighter note we would have seen full fledged cricket series between our teams visiting each other.

Regarding the first paragraph - yeah Pakistan will also need to scale its forces down.

I think some sort of semi autonomous region with free movement between each side is the only answer now.

Regarding the second paragraph- yeah it would be a watershed moment in world history, both sides will benefit massively and even the Kashmiris that want independence would be content with this scenario.

But I dont think either country would agree.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Regarding the first paragraph - yeah Pakistan will also need to scale its forces down.

I think some sort of semi autonomous region with free movement between each side is the only answer now.

Regarding the second paragraph- yeah it would be a watershed moment in world history, both sides will benefit massively and even the Kashmiris that want independence would be content with this scenario.

But I dont think either country would agree.

This would be great almost like some sort of utopia. But neither country would agree. I think normalizing relationships between people is a frst step. Let trade and cultural exchange (arts and sports) take place. Back channel talks can keep going on between governments.

But nothingz gonna happen. Things have been like this for long and will stay like this for long.

 

[Bewal Express]

No doubt both countries need to move towards peace as it would help both spend less on weapons but unless the Inds accept that Kashmiris have a right to self determination then we cant really move forward.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No doubt both countries need to move towards peace as it would help both spend less on weapons but unless the Inds accept that Kashmiris have a right to self determination then we cant really move forward.

Its more of Bajwa selling out Pakistanis and Kashmiris maybe this time for rupees and not dollars. He tried again, he failed again.

Modi should not step foot on Pakistani soil until Kashmiris are freed. Contrary to many claims Pakistan doesnt need India.

 

[Pakpak]

This would be great almost like some sort of utopia. But neither country would agree. I think normalizing relationships between people is a frst step. Let trade and cultural exchange (arts and sports) take place. Back channel talks can keep going on between governments.

But nothingz gonna happen. Things have been like this for long and will stay like this for long.

I think autonomy would not be hard to agree upon. This was also the topic in question in 2006 when Kasuri, FM of the time, later said Pak India both agreed on a deal which would involve free movement between Kashmir on both borders. That deal later derailed due to Musharraf being overthrown

As for terrorism I know India likes to paint this one sided story but it's not one sided. Indians meddle in Pakistan too.

My spouse also knew afew friends at University from IOK who were indifferent however now despise India after the last few years. So let's not get into *** for tat. Indian abuses in Kashmir are documented for decades from every human right organisation

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This would be great almost like some sort of utopia. But neither country would agree. I think normalizing relationships between people is a frst step. Let trade and cultural exchange (arts and sports) take place. Back channel talks can keep going on between governments.

But nothingz gonna happen. Things have been like this for long and will stay like this for long.

I am in my mid 30s and I honestly believe we will see a semi autonomous Kashmir in my lifetime.

 

[RajBan]

You called them terrorists or would you like to clarify and be more accurate and call them freedom fighters?

No Indian should come on here to demonise the Kashmiri peoople under occupation.

These were never peace talks. India's Hindu extremist government saw an opportunity to make a deal which would mean 20 years RSS can further abuse people without Pak speaking out or supporting the resistance.

Any individual, Kashmiri or otherwise, who have been involved in organized violence against the citizens of India, specially targetting and killing on religious profiles are terrorists as per Indians.

You can term them as freedom fighters , that's your choice but that has no bearing on the opinions of Indian posters here.

 

[RajBan]

Its more of Bajwa selling out Pakistanis and Kashmiris maybe this time for rupees and not dollars. He tried again, he failed again.

Modi should not step foot on Pakistani soil until Kashmiris are freed. Contrary to many claims Pakistan doesnt need India.

This is a fair ask and I hope Pakistan foreign policy sticks to this .

 

[KingKhanWC]

Any individual, Kashmiri or otherwise, who have been involved in organized violence against the citizens of India, specially targetting and killing on religious profiles are terrorists as per Indians.

You can term them as freedom fighters , that's your choice but that has no bearing on the opinions of Indian posters here.

Freedom fighters is the accurate terms. What Indians think make no difference to me, I see it like Bollywood.

20 years of Pak not saying anything or not helping the resistance will mean ethnic cleansing of the land by Indian state terrorist soldiers. Imran Khan is a man unlike Bajwa, good on him for rejecting this blood letting.

 

[Local.Dada]

Its more of Bajwa selling out Pakistanis and Kashmiris maybe this time for rupees and not dollars. He tried again, he failed again.

Modi should not step foot on Pakistani soil until Kashmiris are freed. Contrary to many claims Pakistan doesnt need India.

If you are accusing your head of army of being a fraud and a thief then that automatally pushes the Kashmir problem a few notches below.

Read again, you are accusing the head of Pakistan army as a traitor.

Sorry for judging but I hear British Pakistanis stay away from army recruitment etc in Britain and they are disconnected from how army works compared to people living in sc who have a closer view.

Firstly being a soldier means you have to follow orders and the buck stops at the head. You can’t say General is corrupt but solders are honest. Sure individual honest might exist but as a group if the army general is corrupt that equals to the army being corrupt.

As far as Ik goes he seemed to have tuned it down due to fear of political backlash as he was already on the verge of being deposed. It is not for some greater ideology like you are saying In hindsight smart move I guess because now all that decision making is someone else’s problem.

 

[the Great Khan]

Thank God IK rejected this stupid deal. As long as there is a fascist govt in India there is no need to talk about deals. IK stance is very clear. Repeal 350 and follow int law..end of..

 

[KingKhanWC]

If you are accusing your head of army of being a fraud and a thief then that automatally pushes the Kashmir problem a few notches below.

Read again, you are accusing the head of Pakistan army as a traitor.

Sorry for judging but I hear British Pakistanis stay away from army recruitment etc in Britain and they are disconnected from how army works compared to people living in sc who have a closer view.

Firstly being a soldier means you have to follow orders and the buck stops at the head. You can’t say General is corrupt but solders are honest. Sure individual honest might exist but as a group if the army general is corrupt that equals to the army being corrupt.

As far as Ik goes he seemed to have tuned it down due to fear of political backlash as he was already on the verge of being deposed. It is not for some greater ideology like you are saying In hindsight smart move I guess because now all that decision making is someone else’s problem.

What kind of gibberish is this?

Bajwa is not the head of the army. What he was doing was selling out people in terms of their safety, a poor policy move. Im not suggesting he was giving secrets to the RSS on how to use head and shoulders. ITs not up to an army cheif(then) to even be involved in such political deals. the deal would have only hurt the people under evil occupation adn those on the free side. IK knows this.

 

[the Great Khan]

What kind of gibberish is this?

Bajwa is not the head of the army. What he was doing was selling out people in terms of their safety, a poor policy move. Im not suggesting he was giving secrets to the RSS on how to use head and shoulders. ITs not up to an army cheif(then) to even be involved in such political deals. the deal would have only hurt the people under evil occupation adn those on the free side. IK knows this.

Useless arguing with fascist regime supporters. If modi says the moon is made of cheese these guys will be trying to prove it on this forum.

Bajwa gad no right to engage in politics. It us the politicians job to secure a deal on kashmir with a mandate...Bajwa can be consulted can advise even give analysis etc.. but nit this nonsense..

I'm glad this wasn't done...

Strengthen our economy keep the border quiet and then we can push for a solution according to int law.

 

[wasim-fan]

Kashmir is over. For both sides. Saber rattling and Jazba won’t get anyone anywhere. Question is how long can both sides keep milking the issue. The closest we came to a resolution was with Musharraf and Vajpayee. It ain’t happening again.

Problem is so much time and emotion has been invested on this that it would take years to let go. The other problem seems that India seems to be sitting back while Pakistan is pushing for it. In foreign policy and state craft, it’s easier to stall than to push the issue.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Useless arguing with fascist regime supporters. If modi says the moon is made of cheese these guys will be trying to prove it on this forum.

Bajwa gad no right to engage in politics. It us the politicians job to secure a deal on kashmir with a mandate...Bajwa can be consulted can advise even give analysis etc.. but nit this nonsense..

Come GK, you know that nothing in Pakistan will get the go ahead without all clear from the military. Politicians are mere puppets that really have not much say as far as the country's future is concerned.

I'm glad this wasn't done...

Strengthen our economy keep the border quiet and then we can push for a solution according to int law.

Strengthening the economy will not happen, you know it, Pakistan currently has 4.5 billion left in their foreign reserves, If that is not diabolicial I do not know what is (Nearly bankrupt). No one major wants to or is currently investing in Pakistan barring the Chinese which is heavily favoured on the Chinese front.

Pakistan is digging a deeper hole for itself by the day, deep down we all know Pakistan wont be getting Indian Kashmir, what it will do is by Pakistan having its head in the sand over Kashmir, India will leave it behind so much, that in the coming decade, it is not even going to matter.

 

[JaDed]

Thank God IK rejected this stupid deal. As long as there is a fascist govt in India there is no need to talk about deals. IK stance is very clear. Repeal 350 and follow int law..end of..

370… but 370 was in place when Kargil happened..

 

[RexRex]

Why do pakistanis keep repeating this fantasy about Kashmir when they know nothing is going to happen ?

Does it make them feel good ? I am trying to understand the psychological aspect of it. It only makes you look more crazy to Indians, and disconnected with reality.

Assuming this Rauf Klasra chap says is true, any normal pakistani should be jumpin at the chance of restoring bilateral ties with India, given the unprecedented economic crisis and debt their country is in. But here you have posters here pretending as is they have the the luxury of a choice.

 

[RajBan]

Freedom fighters is the accurate terms. What Indians think make no difference to me, I see it like Bollywood.

20 years of Pak not saying anything or not helping the resistance will mean ethnic cleansing of the land by Indian state terrorist soldiers. Imran Khan is a man unlike Bajwa, good on him for rejecting this blood letting.

Freedom fighters fight the state machinery, don't kill innocent men just because they belong to another religion. But if you support that, that's your choice in life.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Pakistan Yet To Respond To India's Invite For Regional Meet In May

Pakistan on Thursday said that it is yet to decide on India's invite to Foreign Minister Bilawal Bhutto Zardari to attend a meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) in Goa from May.

"Pakistan and India are members of SCO. India is holding the chairmanship of the SCO Council of Heads of State for 2022-2023. These invitations are being processed as per standard procedures and a decision will be taken in due course," said Pakistan's Foreign Affairs Ministry spokesperson.

India has invited Pakistan's foreign minister to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) meeting scheduled to take place on May 4-5, 2023 in Goa.

"SCO is an important transregional organization that aims to strengthen economic linkages and cooperation among its Member States in different fields. Every year, SCO develops a calendar of activities, which include the Meeting of the Foreign Ministers," added the spokesperson.

India has formally sent invitations to all members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) including Pakistan and China for the upcoming foreign ministers' meeting which will be held in Goa from May 4-5.

The invitation includes invites to the new Foreign Minister of China Qin Gang and Pakistani Foreign Minister Bilawal Bhutto.

India took over the chairmanship of the 9-member mega grouping in September last year and will be holding key ministerial meetings and the summit this year.

Relations between the two countries have been precarious for many years with regard to issues of cross-border terrorism from Pakistan, even as Islamabad has been seeking the restoration of Article 370 for the former Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir for any talks.

Besides, Foreign Minister Bilawal's remarks at the United Nations (UN) last month on PM Modi have cast a shadow over any improvement in ties between the two countries.

The 20-year-old organization has Russia, India, China, Pakistan, and four central Asian countries - Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan as its members.

Iran is the latest country to become a member and under Indian Presidency will for the first time attend the grouping's meeting as a full-fledged member.

The last meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization was held in Samarkand, Uzbekistan.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi visited Samarkand in Uzbekistan to attend the Shanghai Cooperation Organization Summit. The 22nd Meeting of the Council of Heads of State of the SCO is the first in-person summit since 2019.

This year's SCO foreign ministers meeting comes in the wake-up of escalating Russia-Ukraine war and India's G20 Presidency.

NDTV

 

[Syed1]

I'm so glad this deal did not materialize (not that I don't want peace) but Bajwa (and all the generals are so greedy and corrupt). India could have bought them for $1billion and they would have even agreed to hand over Karachi (not Lahore because obviously Punjab is crown jewel for Pakistan Army).

 

[the Great Khan]

I'm so glad this deal did not materialize (not that I don't want peace) but Bajwa (and all the generals are so greedy and corrupt). India could have bought them for $1billion and they would have even agreed to hand over Karachi (not Lahore because obviously Punjab is crown jewel for Pakistan Army).

Lol..luckily there are still.some good officers in there. But the organisations on strength is its weakness too.

Coming on to the deal..we can never have a peace with India on their terms. Ever. If we did that Modis boot would be placed on our nexks very very quickly.

Just remember one thing and this is the bit the indians don't tell you. They would love nothing better than to put their boot on your neck and make you grovel. Even the ones who may be your friends..

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

Lol..luckily there are still.some good officers in there. But the organisations on strength is its weakness too.

Coming on to the deal..we can never have a peace with India on their terms. Ever. If we did that Modis boot would be placed on our nexks very very quickly.

Just remember one thing and this is the bit the indians don't tell you. They would love nothing better than to put their boot on your neck and make you grovel. Even the ones who may be your friends..

What leverage do we have to make deals happen on our terms? We can't even get the IMF to budge on their demands. I know there's a lot of passion and emotion when it comes to India and Kashmir, but unfortunately, that means zilch on the world stage. Our foreign and economic (lack of) policies have rendered us amongst the lower rungs in Asia, with only Afghanistan being worse.

We have no one but ourselves to blame, and our obsession with Kashmir has landed us where we are.

 

[Romali_rotti]

What leverage do we have to make deals happen on our terms? We can't even get the IMF to budge on their demands. I know there's a lot of passion and emotion when it comes to India and Kashmir, but unfortunately, that means zilch on the world stage. Our foreign and economic (lack of) policies have rendered us amongst the lower rungs in Asia, with only Afghanistan being worse.

We have no one but ourselves to blame, and our obsession with Kashmir has landed us where we are.

Congrats, a sensible post...