Pakistan management’s inability to read the pitch before matches

[tiger_khan]

This a recurring theme. Not only the away series but even in the home ones, the managements make and have been making inaccurate assessment of the pitches before the games start

Hasan Ali might take all the 8 wickets tomorrow but there was absolutely no need of having a second fast bowler who was going to bat number 11

The decision looks even more absurd after the Pakistan went into the game with ill Sajid Khan

Abrar under these conditions would have been a more appropriate choice. Even South Africa picked only one specialist fast bowler for this pitch.

We criticize the lack of professionalism among players a lot but we don't specifically concentrate on the incompetence of the management. They were hedging their bets when they included the second fast bowler because they weren't sure if the pitch will turn enough or not

We might win tomorrow. The likelihood is high. But a third professional spinner would have made things easier of us

Under these conditions you need only two batsmen to play long. SA is still in the game. If we lose from here, it will be management's fault. If we win, this incompetence of the management will be thrown under the rug.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I don't think it's as big of a selection blunder as you are making it out to be. The pacers were both selected for reverse-swing, and they were getting some in the first innings but then Shan reverted to the spinners. There's nothing wrong with having a more three-dimensional attack, rather than a one-dimensional one. The ability of the spinners is proven and they are reliable enough, which is why Pakistan only need two. The pacers could have done something if you actually used them. Rabada was definitely getting some help from the pitch in the second innings.

The biggest reason for selecting two pacers is so that you don't get in a situation where one batsman gets comfortable with spin. That's known to happen. So having two pacers allows you to just unsettle that. They can be useful for cleaning up the tail too.

 

[Savak]

Aamir Jamal and Mohd Nawaz would have been good selections. An extra pacer and an extra left arm spinner to give some rest to Nauman, Sajid without compromising on batting depth.

 

[tiger_khan]

I don't think it's as big of a selection blunder as you are making it out to be. The pacers were both selected for reverse-swing, and they were getting some in the first innings but then Shan reverted to the spinners. There's nothing wrong with having a more three-dimensional attack, rather than a one-dimensional one. The ability of the spinners is proven and they are reliable enough, which is why Pakistan only need two. The pacers could have done something if you actually used them. Rabada was definitely getting some help from the pitch in the second innings.

The biggest reason for selecting two pacers is so that you don't get in a situation where one batsman gets comfortable with spin. That's known to happen. So having two pacers allows you to just unsettle that. They can be useful for cleaning up the tail too.

My allegation is not based on this test match alone. There is a rich history of Pakistani origin coaches unable to read the pitch prior to the games

In 2009, this information was even leaked by players during their tour of Australia. It was said that the bowling coach back then continuosly misread the pitches and their expected change in character over 5 days

I think it's just one of those things like we have a cricket culture of not being interested in the fielding aspect of the game. I used to attend first-class nets on a regular basis in Pakistan. If my memory serves me right, they practiced fielding only once (at least in the nets sessions that I attended). Only the wicket keepers would ask someone to throw downs off the bulldozers on the ground.


We have a very unprofessional cricket culture. If people develop their cricket minds, they do it in their own. Most of the coaches appointments are due to political backing. Even the 2009 bowling coach was a political appointment.

Most of the Pak cricketers (not all) develop their plans as the match goes on. They are reactive in nature, not proactive. It reflects, when they become coaches through political backings.

 

[tiger_khan]

My allegation is not based on this test match alone. There is a rich history of Pakistani origin coaches unable to read the pitch prior to the games

In 2009, this information was even leaked by players during their tour of Australia. It was said that the bowling coach back then continuosly misread the pitches and their expected change in character over 5 days

I think it's just one of those things like we have a cricket culture of not being interested in the fielding aspect of the game. I used to attend first-class nets on a regular basis in Pakistan. If my memory serves me right, they practiced fielding only once (at least in the nets sessions that I attended). Only the wicket keepers would ask someone to throw downs off the bulldozers on the ground.


We have a very unprofessional cricket culture. If people develop their cricket minds, they do it in their own. Most of the coaches appointments are due to political backing. Even the 2009 bowling coach was a political appointment.

Most of the Pak cricketers (not all) develop their plans as the match goes on. They are reactive in nature, not proactive. It reflects, when they become coaches through political backings.

Correction: I meant rollers not bulldozers LOL

 

[Abid Z]

I don't think it's as big of a selection blunder as you are making it out to be. The pacers were both selected for reverse-swing, and they were getting some in the first innings but then Shan reverted to the spinners. There's nothing wrong with having a more three-dimensional attack, rather than a one-dimensional one. The ability of the spinners is proven and they are reliable enough, which is why Pakistan only need two. The pacers could have done something if you actually used them. Rabada was definitely getting some help from the pitch in the second innings.

The biggest reason for selecting two pacers is so that you don't get in a situation where one batsman gets comfortable with spin. That's known to happen. So having two pacers allows you to just unsettle that. They can be useful for cleaning up the tail too.

You’re right it’s not a selection blunder but just an assessment. Who will get you 20 wickets. Saj and noman won’t by themselves so what other spinner compliment them. Clearly Abrar, Nawaz, Kg,Saud, saim and Agha would have been discussed. Agha is naturally a shoe in so effectively 3 spinners easily capable of bowling 60 overs in the day. That leaves the question who will bowl the remaining 30. Faheem, Jamal, Mir hamza Khurram SSA Hasan all might have been discussed. SSA is a shoe in and offers help with the old ball. That only leaves Hasan to fight it out with the seaming all rounders. And it’s 50/50. I would have preferred amir Jamal, South Africa did the same with moulder and Rabada but I’m sure Hasan came into it due to his speed swing and reverse. Ie. All four full time bowlers had genuine wicket taking ability just looked really rusty.

I think the effects of the long break are really telling. New coach rusty players unproven squad. Makes it interesting to see how Pak will strategise.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You’re right it’s not a selection blunder but just an assessment. Who will get you 20 wickets. Saj and noman won’t by themselves so what other spinner compliment them. Clearly Abrar, Nawaz, Kg,Saud, saim and Agha would have been discussed. Agha is naturally a shoe in so effectively 3 spinners easily capable of bowling 60 overs in the day. That leaves the question who will bowl the remaining 30. Faheem, Jamal, Mir hamza Khurram SSA Hasan all might have been discussed. SSA is a shoe in and offers help with the old ball. That only leaves Hasan to fight it out with the seaming all rounders. And it’s 50/50. I would have preferred amir Jamal, South Africa did the same with moulder and Rabada but I’m sure Hasan came into it due to his speed swing and reverse. Ie. All four full time bowlers had genuine wicket taking ability just looked really rusty.

I think the effects of the long break are really telling. New coach rusty players unproven squad. Makes it interesting to see how Pak will strategise.

Yeah I'd take Aamir Jamal over Hasan Ali too

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I think the selection this time was ok and they had a reasonable handle on the conditions.

I'm not in favour of three spinners.

 

[Abid Z]

I think the selection this time was ok and they had a reasonable handle on the conditions.

I'm not in favour of three spinners.

Yes 3 full time spinners plus agha is really over doing it. Our pacers need experience especially on less responsive wickets. For once they are bowling in intervals sharing the burden with good spinners. Now they just have to be test match ready for the up and coming tours.

 

[tiger_khan]

I think the selection this time was ok and they had a reasonable handle on the conditions.

I'm not in favour of three spinners.

I suppose we will find out what three good spinners can do when Maharaj will be back in the squad in the next test replacing Subrayen

Hasan Ali bowled a total of 10 overs in the game and faced a total of 4 deliveries in 2 innings batting at number 11

Not to mention making two spinners bowling for extraordinary lengths of time make them susceptible to injuries. Particularly if one of the bowlers is almost 40 and the other one has a mechanically poor bowling action and applies too much force on the bowling shoulder

Bowling spin at international level with spikes take a lot out of players. There is a lot of stress applied on the ower back, hips and shoulders. Every bowler comes to this world with a finite number of deliveries in him. Regardless of how fit he bowler is, he will get unfit due to constant repetition of movement/action. Dale Steyn was the fittest cricketer on earth but he got injured. It had to do with repetition. People think that the repetition only injures the fast bowlers. That's not accurate. Saqlain Mushtaq's career ended prematurely because every team he played with abused him.

In my opinion, a third good spinner would reduce the workload of Nauman and Sajid and also protect them. Otherwise South Africa also has Markham, just like Agha, but they didn't have to use him a lot.

We won because South Africans historically play spin not as great as they play the fast bowling. There are lots of inexperienced players in this team.

Most importantly, I don't know what value was added to the team by Hassan with his total of 10 overs bowled and 4 deliveries faced, in the entire match. If Hassan can't add any value then any replacement pacer won't either.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong.