Pakistan T20I Dilemma - Think tank when batting first

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This thread is not a knee jerk reaction and I will try to be very constructive in here. There is an elephant in the room that needs to be addressed in T20I which is the approach to use when batting first. This thread is only for batting first as in recent years we have seen we are a very capable side when it comes to chasing with some prolific chases over recent years now thanks to Babar and Rizwan.

From interviews of Babar and Rizwan we have established that they assess the conditions in the first 2 overs after which they play the game suited to conditions when batting first. This is the most sensible approach to take and with 2 world class players in the middle (Babar and Rizwan) there would be no better player to judge the condition in the initial overs.

The concern comes through when they either play too long and end up still in wickets post 14th over or they get out too early and we expose our prestigious trio of Ifti, Khushdil and Asif. In either of these cases Pakistan will fall short of their set targets which is ideally what we would like to avoid. It is not rocket science and this can be avoided by a simple change of mindset and attitude. The following are tactics which I believe we should implement when batting first.

1. Shan Masood - Too early to say but we now might have a dependable batter in case Babar / Rizwan fails. Lack of a dependable batter has been a reason for our failures in Asia Cup and even in T20WC last year in matches where either Babar or Rizwan were failing. Hopefully with Shan's inclusion we can have more assurances in our batting unit. Having Shan in lineup should also give Babar and Rizwan more confidence to play big shots earlier than what they would have liked. Previously they would like to preserve their wickets as long as possible given the prestigious trio waiting in the dugout is incapable of shaping an innings but with Shan Babar and Rizwan should look to take more risks so that if they fail Shan can carry their momentum through. Further, Shan is best utilised if a wicket falls in the first 6 overs to steady the innings for late burst. If wicket is falling after 6 overs then we should think more carefully about our XI positions however if the first wicket falls after 10+ overs then surely Shan should be pushed down the lineup. This was a mistake done yesterday and it should be avoided going forward.

2. Asif Ali - If we are batting first and this guy is playing and by the end of the innings if he is not out or haven't batted or just played less than 10 balls not out then consider our batting approach or methodology has totally failed. In instances we are batting first this guy should always have a role. I don't care if he get out 3rd ball but he should always get a chance to bat in we are batting first. Given he is our x factor player he should be given a chance at 3 or even in 12/14th over because we have nothing to lose in those situations and some power hitting from him can change equation of match. Its absolutely shambolic the way management has used Asif Ali in recent games. To add to my point we shouldn't rely on this guy when chasing.

3. Nawaz / Shadab - Given the turmoil in our middle order I would like to see either of them batting at 4. Shadab can come in if spinners are on and Nawaz can come if pacers are on. Its a blessing to have some good allrounders so we need to utilise them in perfect fashion which includes utilising their batting. Both of them had an impact in Asia Cup when promoted i.e. against India and Afghanistan. Pakistan should make this role permanently for them going forward in T20Is.

4. Rizwan - Atleast Babar has some power game for slog overs but Rizwan really struggles when he has to force the issue. Ideally when batting first Rizwan should not bat beyond 14 overs but if he does he would need a power game or a powerful couple of shots on offside otherwise any longer he bats beyond 14 overs will be detrimental for Pakistan's score. PS - I'm a big fan of the guy but what his shortcomings are needs to be mentioned and improved upon in a constructive fashion.

5. Fakhar - I'm not sure how many PPers on here have noticed this small fact about Fakhar but surely I have. This is that Fakhar is way more consistent and destructive when team is batting first. Even in last WC T20 where he failed all tournament lived up when team was batting first in semi-final. When we have got significant concerns in our approach when batting first maybe we need Fakhar in the lineup. To be fair I'm not sure who's brilliant idea it was to drop Fakhar but retain our prestigious trio.

Overall, we are something similar to a deer caught in headlights when batting first. We need to improve upon this aspect fairly quickly because in the upcoming WC we can be batting first in some important games something similar to last year's semi-final. We need a proper plan when we are batting first and just cannot rely on Babar and Rizwan to play all 20 all the time.
 
Rizwan and Babar are accumulators and are one of the best players available so we have to make our strategy keeping their abilities in mind and only solution is having solid yet flamboyant no.3 to no.6

From the 4 games so far out of Haider Iftikhar Khusdil Shan Asif, Asif and Iftikhar can be accommodated

Rizwan Babar HSohail Nawaz Asif Iftikhar Shadab WasimJr Rauf Shaheen Hasnain/Naseem
 
Great post.

Fully agreed on most of your points. Will just add another point here. That is the Babar/Rizwan partnership mindset. They’re fully capable of forcing the run rate when chasing very high scores. Even yesterday, they changed their usual approach in the powerplay when batting first and got over 50 runs instead of their usual 40-45. But from overs 6-12 when batting first, they go back to their old template and we end up with 100 or so around the 13th over. They are capable of going to 10RPO in the first 10 overs. That should be the mindset even when batting first. Or they should get out trying. If they fall early, Shan or Iftikhar like batters can come in. If they get to a 100 in 10 or so overs, Asif Ali, Shadab, Nawaz etc can walk in to continue the momentum.
 
Babar and Rizwan could be split. So you can for instance open with Rizwan and Saim Ayub/Sharjeel/Fakhar and have Babar at 3.

One of the openers should attack from ball one. Even if he makes 25 from 10 balls he has done his job in PP and with still 3-4 left overs left of PP, Pakistan can get to 60 in first 6 overs. That would be a great start.
 
Babar and Rizwan could be split. So you can for instance open with Rizwan and Saim Ayub/Sharjeel/Fakhar and have Babar at 3.

One of the openers should attack from ball one. Even if he makes 25 from 10 balls he has done his job in PP and with still 3-4 left overs left of PP, Pakistan can get to 60 in first 6 overs. That would be a great start.

Looks like even when they get to 50+ or 60, they slow down when the fielding restrictions ease up. Definitely need to have better PP batting first—but also to continue the momentum from overs 7-12.
 
If they play 10 over which they almost play every match and score around 65-70 runs and on exceptionally good batting wickets like Karachi jus 80 runs,then I bet Pakistan is going to loose 90% of games while chasing scores of excess of 175 and if batting first won't be able to score more than 170 runs in 90% of games..but yeah will win 100% of games if chasing around 159-155.They don't have momentum in their innings..It is better to split them and have fakhar open with Rizwan,followed by Babar.
And yeah Pakistan should try Azam Khan in middle order.He has destructive hitting abilities.
Outside Asia only one among shahdab and Nawaz should play.
 
Looking at current crop of players in pak.the T20 squad should be like
Fakhar
Sharjeel
Absolutely no comprise for above 2 openers.they are the best bet
Haider Ali
Guy has talent but needs long rope to install confidence.
Haris Sohail.(can play both as agressor or anchor in case of early fall of wickets)
Azam Khan(wk)
Asif Ali
Shahdab
M.wasim/Nawaz depending on pitch
Shaheen(Captain)
Haris rouf
Naseem
Pakistan should make M.Hafeez as coach as he is well abreast with T20 cricket
 
Great post.

Fully agreed on most of your points. Will just add another point here. That is the Babar/Rizwan partnership mindset. They’re fully capable of forcing the run rate when chasing very high scores. Even yesterday, they changed their usual approach in the powerplay when batting first and got over 50 runs instead of their usual 40-45. But from overs 6-12 when batting first, they go back to their old template and we end up with 100 or so around the 13th over. They are capable of going to 10RPO in the first 10 overs. That should be the mindset even when batting first. Or they should get out trying. If they fall early, Shan or Iftikhar like batters can come in. If they get to a 100 in 10 or so overs, Asif Ali, Shadab, Nawaz etc can walk in to continue the momentum.

I agree that Babar and Rizwan both are well capable of batting at 10po and we have seen that happen in chases where they both have successfully chased steep targets. The concern is always with batting first and I do agree once they establish its a 200 wicket they go for quick runs. The problem arises post 14th over when Rizwan especially does not have a power game to hit out 12 per over or more especially hitting sixes on full balls. This where he would have to develop a game for slog overs.

For me an ideal T20I line up would be as follows:
1. Babar
2. Rizwan
3. Shan Masood / Fakhar
4. Nawaz / Shadab
5. Fakhar / Shan
6. Asif Ali
7. Shadab / Nawaz
8. ??? (Need a medium pacer all rounder ideally if not then additional pacer or Ifti for bowling offies)
9. Shaheen
10. Naseem
11. Haris Rauf
 
I agree that Babar and Rizwan both are well capable of batting at 10po and we have seen that happen in chases where they both have successfully chased steep targets. The concern is always with batting first and I do agree once they establish its a 200 wicket they go for quick runs. The problem arises post 14th over when Rizwan especially does not have a power game to hit out 12 per over or more especially hitting sixes on full balls. This where he would have to develop a game for slog overs.

For me an ideal T20I line up would be as follows:
1. Babar
2. Rizwan
3. Shan Masood / Fakhar
4. Nawaz / Shadab
5. Fakhar / Shan
6. Asif Ali
7. Shadab / Nawaz
8. ??? (Need a medium pacer all rounder ideally if not then additional pacer or Ifti for bowling offies)
9. Shaheen
10. Naseem
11. Haris Rauf

Some points of clarification.

Fakhar hasn’t been dropped, he’s rehabbing a knee injury picked up in the Asia Cup. It’s why he’ll always make the squad if fit.

I’m not sure how effective Fakhar is as a middle order bat. However, given our lack of options we’ll probs try anything.

I think Shadab is wasted where he bats currently, but Babar has to be more proactive in giving Shadab time out in the middle. It’s clear that Shaddy won’t play in this series, but he needs to bat at 5 in the NZ/Bangla tri series

As another alternative, given how dire the middle order is, Sarfaraz even with all his limitations, is a better No.4 than Shan, as he has the ability to accelerate once he’s been in for a bit.

Just my two cents
 
This is Pakistan's best playing 11 in Australia looking at the progress so far.

Babar
Rizwan
Fakhar
Shan Masood
Shadab
Nawaz
Asif
Wasim
Rauf
Naseem
Afridi
 
This is Pakistan's best playing 11 in Australia looking at the progress so far.

Babar
Rizwan
Fakhar
Shan Masood
Shadab
Nawaz
Asif
Wasim
Rauf
Naseem
Afridi

Agreed, if fully fit. Can shuffle Ifti/ Hasnain, in place of Wasim based on conditions and situation. Ifti is going to make first choice 11 ahead of Wasim Jr knowing this management. They wouldn’t be wrong tho.
 
I appreciate the thought you put into this, but we are grasping at straws. This won't work because it's not as if Babar and Rizwan don't already understand the problem that you're describing. Yet they insist on doing it, so it's a deeper malaise. I wrote a post this morning suggesting that a more radical overhaul is necessary in both philosophy and personnel. They're not going to do any of the things you outlined here, and we will keep being mystified as to why they don't do it. They just won't, because they think it's good enough.
 
Great thread. We definitely have more runs to extract from the playing XI when batting first.

Agree with all the points except #4 about Rizwan. Rizwan now has more sixes than ABD (who played more matches) and 1 less than Andre Russell in almost same number of matches (1 less match). His six hitting ratio is better than Babar's and usually Rizwan is the one turning up to get boundaries especially aerial.
 
Great thread. We definitely have more runs to extract from the playing XI when batting first.

Agree with all the points except #4 about Rizwan. Rizwan now has more sixes than ABD (who played more matches) and 1 less than Andre Russell in almost same number of matches (1 less match). His six hitting ratio is better than Babar's and usually Rizwan is the one turning up to get boundaries especially aerial.

Nice

Can you please share the strike rates of that time period of all those names that you are comparing his 6s with?
 
For Pakistan to be successful at the upcoming T20 WC they would need to master the batting first strategy. Its quite evident that at the moment there is no thinking being done as to what would be the roles of each batsmen and how they can extract more runs to reach desired result. I re-iterate again that chasing a target is not much of an issue for this Pakistan team but setting one is a massive concern at the moment.

For us to be able to post substantial totals whilst batting first our middle order becomes critical. I days gone by it has always been our middle order that generated sufficient runs in the later half of every innings. Also when we are batting first we need to utilise Shan Masood differently. For example if one of Babar or Rizwan gets out then we need to send Haider / Shadab / Nawaz early on to attack from get go. If one of these guys gets out then send Ifti to continue with attacking cricket. Only send in Shan once the second opener gets out too to ensure we don't slip further. The motto is to have one of Babar/Riz from one end whilst an attacking option at the other.

Also depending on opposition, pitch and circumstances one of Babar or Rizwan would have to put their hands up on a given day to be the attacking opener whilst the other can be the anchor. Having 2 anchors in a batting first scenario always will be troublesome. I have no concerns whatsover that both Babar and Rizwan can be the attacking ones as they both have the ability.

As previously mentioned in a batting first scenario is important that guys like Asif Ali always bats out and do not bat very late in the order.

These are basic assessments and Pakistan thinktank needs to address this at their earliest or they would find themselves in a massive dilema come they are batting first in a decider.
 
Pakistan seem to consistently misjudge the pace of their innings when batting 1st.

Prime example being the 2021 WC SF vs AUS when we left at least 10-15 runs out there on a belter.
 
Shan Masood in the top 4 has simply ruined our chances of scoring big when batting first.

I thought I would never support Sharjeel again but i would even prefer him over Shan. Thats how bad Shan is.
 
Pakistan seem to consistently misjudge the pace of their innings when batting 1st.

Prime example being the 2021 WC SF vs AUS when we left at least 10-15 runs out there on a belter.

Slow batting from 7th to 11th overs ( left us 15 runs short) it was 190+ pitch & that would have won us the match. Actually even against Namibia we were bit short, it was last over blitz by Rizwan which covered it up. Babar & Rizwan shall hope they win more tosses in world cup & prefer to chase.
 
Slow batting from 7th to 11th overs ( left us 15 runs short) it was 190+ pitch & that would have won us the match. Actually even against Namibia we were bit short, it was last over blitz by Rizwan which covered it up. Babar & Rizwan shall hope they win more tosses in world cup & prefer to chase.

Falls right into the hands of batting heavy opposition.
 
Pakistan seem to consistently misjudge the pace of their innings when batting 1st.

Prime example being the 2021 WC SF vs AUS when we left at least 10-15 runs out there on a belter.

Slow batting from 7th to 11th overs ( left us 15 runs short) it was 190+ pitch & that would have won us the match. Actually even against Namibia we were bit short, it was last over blitz by Rizwan which covered it up. Babar & Rizwan shall hope they win more tosses in world cup & prefer to chase.

RizBab struck at a mighty combined SR 123 while consuming over 72% of the total inns balls. Only Fakhar's inns gave us a chance in this match and likes of Hafeez or Shadab did not get a chance to accelerate the inns due to coming in too late.
 
Our openers are averting 1x6 every 30 and 40 balls!

Talk about lack of intent!
 
My God not a single Pakistani in this list!

Why is no one asking these questions to Mohammad Yousuf head batting coach?

May be not many Pakistani batsmen have faced 100+ balls with this criterion.

Babar and Rizwan must have faced, but they are somewhat limited in skills. The don't have career strike rate of 140+. Expecting them to strike above 140, when real pace is on, is asking for too much.
 
My God not a single Pakistani in this list!

Why is no one asking these questions to Mohammad Yousuf head batting coach?

Mo doesn't want to be disturbed and put in any work, they all want to sit about sipping chai and providing statements now and again that they hope will appease the masses.

Also, don't think he understands modern T20 batting.
 
Mo doesn't want to be disturbed and put in any work, they all want to sit about sipping chai and providing statements now and again that they hope will appease the masses.

Also, don't think he understands modern T20 batting.

I bet if you ask him, his response would be:

“Aap sirf English ke teacher hain! Teacher! Aapki Test average kya hai?”
 
May be not many Pakistani batsmen have faced 100+ balls with this criterion.

Babar and Rizwan must have faced, but they are somewhat limited in skills. The don't have career strike rate of 140+. Expecting them to strike above 140, when real pace is on, is asking for too much.

Both of them are vulnerable against short stuffs. That is another thing.
 
Pakistani batting has a clear issue with role definition. I don’t know if the batsmen don’t know their roles or they simply are not able to execute them. Iftikhar, Haider, Asif, Khushdil simply cannot play at a run a ball strike rate when rest of the world has players in these roles consistently striking at 150-200+ SR.

Our openers also generally play slower than other major teams but the gap is not as big compared to our middle order.
 
It might sound dumb given his recent failures, but I really think Iftikhar is not a bad bat. The Pakistani think-tank has grossly mismanaged Iftikhar as a batsman. Time and again we have sent Shadab, Nawaz, Khushdil above Iftikhar which gives the message that we don't trust your ability. It's criminal to send bits and pieces allrounders above your specialist bat. Australia does it with Steve Smith being demoted but that's because when 5 overs are left, other batsmen are more likely to strike at a much higher rate than Smith. With Iftikhar, there is nothing to suggest that our bowling allrounders can strike at a higher rate consistently than Iftikhar. I have seen some incredible innings from Iftikhar at the domestic level which none of Shadab, Khushdil, Nawaz, Asif can dream of playing. Granted, it's only domestic and we can't really hype those performances up, but our domestic is the only yardstick for us selecting players.

To get the best of Iftikhar, you have to give him the number 4 spot come rain or shine. Whether his turn comes in the 8th over or the 15th, at number 4 Iftikhar should bat. His strike rates are not materially worse than our bowling allrounders. I hope that the management and captain trusts Iftikhar with the number 4 position. He is relatively decent with the cut and pull shot so he may not do too bad in Australia.
 
3 accumulators in top 3 will not work. Split them apart else just hope you chase and are chasing <= 165
 
It might sound dumb given his recent failures, but I really think Iftikhar is not a bad bat.

Well you did suggest we should retire Shan in the middle of an innings so this isn’t the worst thing you’ve said :))
 
Well you did suggest we should retire Shan in the middle of an innings so this isn’t the worst thing you’ve said :))

Dude, you need medical help. This obsession with me is driving you mad. "Rana mentioned shariqnoor" 8 times in 10 days. LOL. Just see the screenshot

2022-10-11 10_05_25-View Profile_ shariqnoor - PakPassion.net - Pakistan Cricket Forum — Mozilla.jpg

And at least I suggested retiring Shan out when he was striking at 93 in the 14th or 15th over. You on the other hand, suggested making Asif Ali the captain of the Pakistan cricket team and are a vocal supporter of corrupted players.
 
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It might sound dumb given his recent failures, but I really think Iftikhar is not a bad bat. The Pakistani think-tank has grossly mismanaged Iftikhar as a batsman. Time and again we have sent Shadab, Nawaz, Khushdil above Iftikhar which gives the message that we don't trust your ability. It's criminal to send bits and pieces allrounders above your specialist bat. Australia does it with Steve Smith being demoted but that's because when 5 overs are left, other batsmen are more likely to strike at a much higher rate than Smith. With Iftikhar, there is nothing to suggest that our bowling allrounders can strike at a higher rate consistently than Iftikhar. I have seen some incredible innings from Iftikhar at the domestic level which none of Shadab, Khushdil, Nawaz, Asif can dream of playing. Granted, it's only domestic and we can't really hype those performances up, but our domestic is the only yardstick for us selecting players.

To get the best of Iftikhar, you have to give him the number 4 spot come rain or shine. Whether his turn comes in the 8th over or the 15th, at number 4 Iftikhar should bat. His strike rates are not materially worse than our bowling allrounders. I hope that the management and captain trusts Iftikhar with the number 4 position. He is relatively decent with the cut and pull shot so he may not do too bad in Australia.

Actually, there is something to suggest that Shadab should bat at 4 and Iftikhar should come in later. The problem with Pakistans middle order is that nobody has good strike rates against spin bowling.

Ifthikar has a much better strike rate against pace than against spin. Shadab has an extremely good record at 4 in the PSL and he can actually hit spin. Ifti should bat at the death against pace bowlers.
 
Dude, you need medical help. This obsession with me is driving you mad. "Rana mentioned shariqnoor" 8 times in 10 days. LOL. Just see the screenshot

View attachment 117390

And at least I suggested retiring Shan out when he was striking at 93 in the 14th or 15th over. You on the other hand, suggested making Asif Ali the captain of the Pakistan cricket team and are a vocal supporter of corrupted players.

Firstly, whether it’s Babar/Rizwan or Asif captain

Koi farq nahi parhta. Babar and Rizwan leadership is rubbish. They don’t understand modern day cricket and their tactics are pretty poor

Secondly, yes I openly advocate for Corrupted players who have done their time and are eligible for selection. Not sure how that makes me morally corrupt myself?

Thirdly, you yourself bowled a massive full toss with the Iftikhar line :))

I couldn’t resist. Just had to remind you of the Shan retirement suggestion
 
Actually, there is something to suggest that Shadab should bat at 4 and Iftikhar should come in later. The problem with Pakistans middle order is that nobody has good strike rates against spin bowling.

Ifthikar has a much better strike rate against pace than against spin. Shadab has an extremely good record at 4 in the PSL and he can actually hit spin. Ifti should bat at the death against pace bowlers.

In Australia, the ball doesn't turn much so I don't think Iftikhar will have much problem with the turning ball. Iftikhar definitely isn't a great player of spin but rarely do teams bowl 8 overs of continuous spin in T20s these days. Even in the middle overs you will have a fast bowler operating especially in Australia. I would still have Iftikhar bat at 4.
 
In Australia, the ball doesn't turn much so I don't think Iftikhar will have much problem with the turning ball. Iftikhar definitely isn't a great player of spin but rarely do teams bowl 8 overs of continuous spin in T20s these days. Even in the middle overs you will have a fast bowler operating especially in Australia. I would still have Iftikhar bat at 4.

Your problem is top 3 not top 4
 
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