Pakistan vs Australia in Australia: 2016 vs 2009 vs 2004 vs 1999

[Pete Rose]

Top 3 Pakistani batsmen run aggregates

1999
Saeed Anwar: 282 runs
Inzamam: 260
Ijaz: 209

2004
Younis Khan: 259
Salman Butt: 225
Youhana: 189

2009
Salman Butt: 280
Umar Akmal: 199
Yousuf: 178

2016 (3 batting innings)
Azhar Ali: 215*
Asad Shafiq: 189
Mohammad Amir: 97*


Potentially three more innings to go and potentially at least a couple of 300 aggregates for the series.

Yes the past guys faced vastly superior bowling, but they were also supposed to be more talented than the current lot.

 

[Markhor]

The 2nd innings at Brisbane was also the first time since Dec 1983 that we've crossed 400 in a Test in Australia

But the other teams were better because they were more "aggressive" and didn't have a "timid mindset" or something

 

[Rayyman]

The 2nd innings at Brisbane was also the first time since Dec 1983 that we've crossed 400 in a Test in Australia

But the other teams were better because they were more "aggressive" and didn't have a "timid mindset" or something

Pakistan cricket has gone from being an aggressive teenager to a wise old man.

 

[Pete Rose]

Pakistan cricket has gone from being an aggressive teenager to a wise old man.

I think they were more likely to be 'excitable teenager' rather than 'aggressive teenager' if you know what I mean

 

[shaz619]

The 2nd innings at Brisbane was also the first time since Dec 1983 that we've crossed 400 in a Test in Australia

But the other teams were better because they were more "aggressive" and didn't have a "timid mindset" or something

Their performances were awful, but given their talent they should have performed so much better. The current lot are stronger mentally, more motivated and give their 100%; they make up for their lack of natural talent with hard work and a fighting spirit.

 

[shaz619]

People go on like the 90's lot were some minnow team on paper, they weren't but underperformed

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Their performances were awful, but given their talent they should have performed so much better. The current lot are stronger mentally, more motivated and give their 100%; they make up for their lack of natural talent with hard work and a fighting spirit.

So true. If we had this spirit in the 90s we would have achieved a lot more.

 

[The intelligent Supporter]

Pitches and conditions are so different in Australia this time around

See the 2010 series and the green pitches where Asif was getting shoulder high bounce and Amir was slinging it around

We did good but nothing like the hype train suggests. Its not the typical tricky australian pitches thi time

 

[Boi]

Pitches and conditions are so different in Australia this time around

See the 2010 series and the green pitches where Asif was getting shoulder high bounce and Amir was slinging it around

We did good but nothing like the hype train suggests. Its not the typical tricky australian pitches thi time

In the first test we had to bat 3/4 of the night sessions and in this test the ball has consistently been moving around under lights and cloud cover. These aren't flat conditions by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes, the Sydney pitch was pretty green last time out but we did get first use of it aswell and when our turn came to bat the pitch had eased up abit. Heck we struggled to get Peter Siddle out in the end.
It's very annoying when we downplay our own performances in these foreign conditions. The same is being done with the England series a few months on with people trying to suggest that we were playing on flat pancakes and that's why we managed to draw the series.

 

[The intelligent Supporter]

In the first test we had to bat 3/4 of the night sessions and in this test the ball has consistently been moving around under lights and cloud cover. These aren't flat conditions by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes, the Sydney pitch was pretty green last time out but we did get first use of it aswell and when our turn came to bat the pitch had eased up abit. Heck we struggled to get Peter Siddle out in the end.
It's very annoying when we downplay our own performances in these foreign conditions. The same is being done with the England series a few months on with people trying to suggest that we were playing on flat pancakes and that's why we managed to draw the series.

I never called it a pancake. Australia might be little comparable to 2010 but are you kidding me with England? Do you honestly think conditions were as hard for us as lets say were for India when they toured ( the Kohli slump tour). Anderson and Broad were hooping it around so much for INDIA tour and on our tour in 2010 Amir was swinging it around for fun.

This time around maybe it was hotter weather or something, pitches were no way comparable in terms of beign tricky. We did do well in England and are doing good in AUS so far but conditions ahve been easier

 

[Pete Rose]

Pitches and conditions are so different in Australia this time around

See the 2010 series and the green pitches where Asif was getting shoulder high bounce and Amir was slinging it around

We did good but nothing like the hype train suggests. Its not the typical tricky australian pitches thi time

Usually how it works. Pitches look good when people bat well. I should add that both ponting and Watson scored nearly 400 runs in in 2009 series

 

[AlphaFighter]

The 1999 and 2004 Australian team were the best ever, against Warne and Mcgrath to score runs were a tremendous achievement, no need to belittle the Pakistani teams of that era. You bring that Pakistani team against this present Australian team, they will demolish them.

 

[Pete Rose]

The 1999 and 2004 Australian team were the best ever, against Warne and Mcgrath to score runs were a tremendous achievement, no need to belittle the Pakistani teams of that era. You bring that Pakistani team against this present Australian team, they will demolish them.

But we had Shoaib Akhtar....

 

[street cricketer]

There is a valid case for the 2010 tour but the Australian teams preceding that team were champion ones. They could demolish most sides anywhere in the world, never mind at home and had 5-6 ATGs in a single team with the rest being great players. They were arguably the most complete team ever as opposed to the current Australian team which has 3-4 very good players but the rest being rookies.

 

[Pete Rose]

There is a valid case for the 2010 tour but the Australian teams preceding that team were champion ones. They could demolish most sides anywhere in the world, never mind at home and had 5-6 ATGs in a single team with the rest being great players. They were arguably the most complete team ever as opposed to the current Australian team which has 3-4 very good players but the rest being rookies.

I am never a fan of cross era comparisons but I think most Pakistan cricket experts need to do an honest reconciliation of how poor we have been in Australia supposedly at the peak of our powers. The most successful fast bowlers of our time have been ruthlessly shut down, while our batsmen have been mental midgets.

 

[Big Mac]

The 1999 and 2004 Australian team were the best ever, against Warne and Mcgrath to score runs were a tremendous achievement, no need to belittle the Pakistani teams of that era. You bring that Pakistani team against this present Australian team, they will demolish them.

You're right about that Australian team being on a different level to any side around right now but let's be honest here, if we used a time machine to bring that Pakistani team to Australia in 2016 they'd still find a way to bottle it.

 

[Haroon786]

Personally, I think the 2010 Australian team was worse than the current team.

 

[AlphaFighter]

You're right about that Australian team being on a different level to any side around right now but let's be honest here, if we used a time machine to bring that Pakistani team to Australia in 2016 they'd still find a way to bottle it.

Batting wise perhaps, but those bowlers would have made mince meat of the current Australian batting line up

 

[AlphaFighter]

But we had Shoaib Akhtar....

Who delivered against the best Australian team ever in 2002 and 2004 and earned the respect of the Australian team, press and country in 1999. The records of Wasim and Waqar are in front of everyone against Australia from 1998 to 2003

 

[Markhor]

The subject of the historical performance of our pace bowlers in Australia is interesting. When you look at the numbers (excluding the ongoing series), Pakistani pacers have historically struggled the MOST in Australia, with an average of 38.54 and SR of 75.6. Compare that to our average in England since our first Test there in 1954 which is 30 with a SR of 62.

Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=reverse;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

Since 1999, Pakistani pacers average 45 in Australia at a SR of 75. Its the same bowling average as India's pacers.

The two bowlers who did as well or better in Australia, compared to their career numbers, were Wasim Akram and Sarfraz Nawaz.

Shoaib Akhtar and Waqar Younis's averages took quite a hit in Australia:

 

[yasir]

People go on like the 90's lot were some minnow team on paper, they weren't but underperformed

90s team defense was considerably weak than this lot, specially guys like Azhar and Sami. The way they see off new ball is never seen in Pakistan history, I am watching rest crivket for 30 years. In NZ, this time around we had worst conditions and yet they both blunt the new ball I think 3 out of four time. They pull off draw in last innings with defense of epic proportion, and something not associated with Pakistan.

90s team had flair, but these guys have patients, solid defense, they know their off stump way better than guys in 90s. I think they would have denied McGrath wicket in first spell as well, things are always different I west when you don't loose wicket in first 15 overs consistently, something we never went pass in 80s and 90s.

 

[Haroon786]

The subject of the historical performance of our pace bowlers in Australia is interesting. When you look at the numbers (excluding the ongoing series), Pakistani pacers have historically struggled the MOST in Australia, with an average of 38.54 and SR of 75.6. Compare that to our average in England since our first Test there in 1954 which is 30 with a SR of 62.

Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=reverse;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

Since 1999, Pakistani pacers average 45 in Australia at a SR of 75. Its the same bowling average as India's pacers.

The two bowlers who did as well or better in Australia, compared to their career numbers, were Wasim Akram and Sarfraz Nawaz.

Shoaib Akhtar and Waqar Younis's averages took quite a hit in Australia:

I think Imran's average is rather misleading because he had a very mixed first tour of Australia in 1976.

 

[Pakistanian]

Crazy how Amir is our 3rd best batter!

 

[shaz619]

90s team defense was considerably weak than this lot, specially guys like Azhar and Sami. The way they see off new ball is never seen in Pakistan history, I am watching rest crivket for 30 years. In NZ, this time around we had worst conditions and yet they both blunt the new ball I think 3 out of four time. They pull off draw in last innings with defense of epic proportion, and something not associated with Pakistan.

90s team had flair, but these guys have patients, solid defense, they know their off stump way better than guys in 90s. I think they would have denied McGrath wicket in first spell as well, things are always different I west when you don't loose wicket in first 15 overs consistently, something we never went pass in 80s and 90s.

Definitely, both teams have their strengths and weaknesses but with the team in the 90's they are either incredibly overrated or their ability on paper is underrated. If the two teams say in their prime and at their absolute best were to face each other across all conditions who would you prefer? the 90's XI or Misbah's XI

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Definitely, both teams have their strengths and weaknesses but with the team in the 90's they are either incredibly overrated or their ability on paper is underrated. If the two teams say in their prime and at their absolute best were to face each other across all conditions who would you prefer? the 90's XI or Misbah's XI

The team from the 90s especially early to mid 90s should've dominated world cricket. However they did not and it is a testament to their infighting and underachievement.

This current side doesn't compare at all in terms of star power and entertainment but in terms of effort and really grinding out wins, this team does it very well.

 

[KashifButt]

I agree with you bro that team was shocking compared to this. Starc is world class with Hazelwood being very good whereas Hilfenhaus and Siddle were both very average back then as was Mitchell Johnson.

 

[KB]

The subject of the historical performance of our pace bowlers in Australia is interesting. When you look at the numbers (excluding the ongoing series), Pakistani pacers have historically struggled the MOST in Australia, with an average of 38.54 and SR of 75.6. Compare that to our average in England since our first Test there in 1954 which is 30 with a SR of 62.

Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...=reverse;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

Since 1999, Pakistani pacers average 45 in Australia at a SR of 75. Its the same bowling average as India's pacers.

The two bowlers who did as well or better in Australia, compared to their career numbers, were Wasim Akram and Sarfraz Nawaz.

Shoaib Akhtar and Waqar Younis's averages took quite a hit in Australia:

Although observers often speak of the pace and bounce of Australian pitches, it can be a quite unforgiving place for visiting pace men. Of the modern fast bowlers, Ambrose and Wasim Akram averaged less than 25 in Australia, but others performed less well compared with their career averages. Waqar’s average has already been noted. Donald, Pollock and Walsh averaged 28, 34 and 34 respectively in Australia. Dale Steyn, the best fast bowler of his era averages 29 in Australia, which is respectable but still below his career average.

While bowlers may look forward to the prospect of extracting pace and bounce, Australian batsmen are accustomed to this and play well off the back foot. Shoaib Akhtar was carried away with the bounce in Australia in 1999-2000 and was severely punished. As the ball comes on nicely, and generally true of bounce, erring in direction becomes a costly business. Australian batsmen are also aggressive and generally capitalise on any loose bowling, ensuring that bowlers are placed under pressure. On top of this, the kookaburra ball becomes soft quite quickly.

Feet are also pounded on hard surfaces, which can challenge any bowlers whom may not be in peak fitness. Akram, Donald, Walsh and Pollock all toured Australia towards the end of their careers, when their best was past them and when the bodies were not so robust. They all endured rough treatment on their last tours.

Specifically for Pakistan, a further issue is the size of the grounds. This makes ground fielding and fitness even more important – areas that Pakistan has always trailed others in. Finally, in Asia while the ball often does not carry when edged, this is clearly not the case in Australia. What should be a boon for Pakistani bowlers (the ball carrying to the slips) is however turned into a something altogether more ugly and dispiriting: the sight of dropped catches. There has barely been an Australian tour since 1990 where dropped catches have not blighted Pakistan.

All this considered, it is perhaps not that surprising that Pakistani bowling has often been vanquished down under.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Although observers often speak of the pace and bounce of Australian pitches, it can be a quite unforgiving place for visiting pace men. Of the modern fast bowlers, Ambrose and Wasim Akram averaged less than 25 in Australia, but others performed less well compared with their career averages. Waqar’s average has already been noted. Donald, Pollock and Walsh averaged 28, 34 and 34 respectively in Australia. Dale Steyn, the best fast bowler of his era averages 29 in Australia, which is respectable but still below his career average.

While bowlers may look forward to the prospect of extracting pace and bounce, Australian batsmen are accustomed to this and play well off the back foot. Shoaib Akhtar was carried away with the bounce in Australia in 1999-2000 and was severely punished. As the ball comes on nicely, and generally true of bounce, erring in direction becomes a costly business. Australian batsmen are also aggressive and generally capitalise on any loose bowling, ensuring that bowlers are placed under pressure. On top of this, the kookaburra ball becomes soft quite quickly.

Feet are also pounded on hard surfaces, which can challenge any bowlers whom may not be in peak fitness. Akram, Donald, Walsh and Pollock all toured Australia towards the end of their careers, when their best was past them and when the bodies were not so robust. They all endured rough treatment on their last tours.

Specifically for Pakistan, a further issue is the size of the grounds. This makes ground fielding and fitness even more important – areas that Pakistan has always trailed others in. Finally, in Asia while the ball often does not carry when edged, this is clearly not the case in Australia. What should be a boon for Pakistani bowlers (the ball carrying to the slips) is however turned into a something altogether more ugly and dispiriting: the sight of dropped catches. There has barely been an Australian tour since 1990 where dropped catches have not blighted Pakistan.

All this considered, it is perhaps not that surprising that Pakistani bowling has often been vanquished down under.

This is something a lot of people need to realise. Many feel that traditionally India was the graveyard for fast bowlers but quality visiting quicks have always done here. Australia on other hand has been a nightmare for most visiting fast bowlers since atleast 1990. Ambrose was an exception since he got that steepling bounce that even OZ batsmen were not used to and hence picked bucket loads of wickets.

Wasim did well because he was an extraordinarily gifted bowler who found swing with both the old and new ball and peak Wasim was very difficult to pick especially with that rapid arm action and that deceptive bounce.

Even Steyn has gone on record suggesting that Australia is the hardest place to bowl since the bounce actually meant that batsmen found good value for their shots unlike in India.