Pakistani captains who built strong teams

[Hawkeye]

So, the issue the likes of Mohammad Yousuf and his PP followers have with Misbah is:

He didn't build a team. And apparently, Pakistan Test team is a weak side. They cannot win overseas.

So, is that the criteria? Fine.

But... let's first analyze did he build a team that can win at home? We don't have a home. Let's go to the UAE.

- He created a team that's unbeatable in the UAE or Asia.
- He created a team that repeatedly beat sides like England and Australia. Former was number 1.
- He created a side that beat England in England
- He created a side that batted very well in England and Australia.


Now.... let's compare with other captains, shall we?

Let's start from 1980. Who built a team that can win overseas and remain good at home?

- Maybe Imran Khan? Was his side unbeatable at home? Don't know.


Keep forwarding. Who built a team that can win overseas?

- Searching... 1990s and 2000s start. How many Tests did we lose at home and away?

- Still searching.. error 404... no captain found who could build a team invincible at home and won away series.

- How did the batting of all these sides, these past decades, fare overseas? .... Pathetic performances and batting overseas.


Who is Misbah ul Haq's direct competitor? Looks like it's Imran Khan.

- Turns out, Misbah built a team that's amazing in Asia and competitive away. Their batting didn't do bad at all - be it England or Australia.



So... why the bitter hate against Misbah ul Haq, who is Pakistan's 2nd most prolific captain?

How come he gets criticized, the person has done better than ALL the other captains? It's made out as if he's worse than others.

Or did Misbah steal your cookies?

we're talking about the premier format - Tests. Changing captains in ODIs is not going to have any effect unless and until you bring modern day game players. We're a total failure there - be it Sarfraz or Misbah

 

[Bilal7]

Inzamam's team was quite strong, at full strength. Nonetheless, I agree with the premise of this thread. PP'ers are just being bitter and ungrateful. Misbah has developed a full set of good players and is leaving us in great shape.

 

[Yaasir]

Definitely. I agree 100 percent. Misbah is probably the most under appreciated captain ever.

 

[Madplayer]

Why does one have to look just at Misbah's Pakistani counterparts? Why not go beyond and compare him with captains of other teams who in the past have left behind great teams when they retired or even the captains today who are trying to create good teams? Or is it that fans consider Pakistani captain to be incapable of creating such a team? If no Pakistani captain has done it in the past, it is okay if no one does it in the future. That seems to be the case here.

Personally i believe Misbah's team was a great team in home like conditions. This is because most of the players are similar to each other but are suitable for such conditions. The batting line up is one dimensional barring sarfaraz who came in the team quite late. Their is left arm fast bowlers galore who create rough for the spinners which again helps them in these conditions. The team competed well in only one series out of subcontinent in England. Got whitewashed almost everywhere else (SA, NZ, AUS). Lost to zimbabwe which no body could imagine. Over reliance on spinners and inability of the batsmen to get on with the game and score at a rate which would put the other team on the backfoot was a reason for this. This style was fine for UAE but not outside it.

Overall i would say that a calm and gentle captain like Misbah was important to take Pakistan out of the dark days of 2010 and build a positive image of the team. Players put their heads down and worked hard under him, generally not indulging in controversies. He created a one dimensional , boring test team that was suitable for and showed resilience in subcontinent conditions but generally struggled outside their comfort zone.

Moving forward i would like to see a bit more flair in the test team where batsmen in particular try to push for results rather than hoping the spinners to do the work on 4th and 5th day.

 

[samiakh]

Imran left a team with Wasim, Waqar, Saeed, Mushtaq, Aamir Sohail, Inzi. To do this he had to marginalize established players like Salim Malik, Mudassar even Abdul Qadir who was one of his favorites. If it was Misbah in charge our 1992 wc side would have had Mudassar, Mohsin, Qadir, Salim You suffer etc. Instead Imran took a chance on the younger brigade that's the big difference between him and Misbah

 

[pakistani pride]

Imran left a team with Wasim, Waqar, Saeed, Mushtaq, Aamir Sohail, Inzi. To do this he had to marginalize established players like Salim Malik, Mudassar even Abdul Qadir who was one of his favorites. If it was Misbah in charge our 1992 wc side would have had Mudassar, Mohsin, Qadir, Salim You suffer etc. Instead Imran took a chance on the younger brigade that's the big difference between him and Misbah

Just stop this non sense. In tests misbah is one of the best ever. What he achieved in the uae is amazing. He gave us something special. We can be proud of tje record there.

ODIs or should i call them JAModis. He won IN india and sa.

During the wc 2015. We at pp wanted at that time shezad, sarfaraz, UA , haris , maqsood.

He played them in the big KO game. He left out yk and what exactly did our youngsta beauty do?

They flopped!

 

[Madplayer]

During the wc 2015. We at pp wanted at that time shezad, sarfaraz, UA , haris , maqsood.

He played them in the big KO game. He left out yk and what exactly did our youngsta beauty do?

They flopped!

I think this is not logical. The thread is about developing a team over a period of time not throwing youngsters into the deep end and declaring them as flops if they fail. Out of these players only shehzad and UA had been given some sort of consistent run in the side over the past years. Rest were rookies who should have been given chances long long time ago.

I personally never wanted shehzad and UA in the team because they were already known to be poor performers after having been given many chances. I was wrong on Sohaib Maqsood though.

 

[Markhor]

Misbah's side went seven Test series unbeaten in 2010-2012 and 2014-2016.

The last Pakistan Test captain to go on that unbeaten streak was Imran Khan in the mid to late 1980s.

People shouldn't take our home form granted. I remember in the late 90s we shelled series against the likes of NZ, Zimbabwe, SAF, England and Sri Lanka. Not to mention the India defeat in 2004.

 

[samiakh]

Just stop this non sense. In tests misbah is one of the best ever. What he achieved in the uae is amazing. He gave us something special. We can be proud of tje record there.

ODIs or should i call them JAModis. He won IN india and sa.

During the wc 2015. We at pp wanted at that time shezad, sarfaraz, UA , haris , maqsood.

He played them in the big KO game. He left out yk and what exactly did our youngsta beauty do?

They flopped!

Absolutely no one questions his contributions but all leaders have their failings. Even Imran made a lot of mistakes. Misbah was never a nurturer of the younger generation. That does not make him a bad captain. Indeed in terms of where he brought the team from he was one of the best. But he leaves behind a weaker team and some of that responsibility must be his

 

[pakistani pride]

I think this is not logical. The thread is about developing a team over a period of time not throwing youngsters into the deep end and declaring them as flops if they fail. Out of these players only shehzad and UA had been given some sort of consistent run in the side over the past years. Rest were rookies who should have been given chances long long time ago.

I personally never wanted shehzad and UA in the team because they were already known to be poor performers after having been given many chances. I was wrong on Sohaib Maqsood though.

The test team is in good shape and i hope amd expect the likes of sarfaraz , azhar and shafiq to carry forward our legacy in the uae.

ODIs he left 2 years ago and what i meant to say is that odi series dont really mean much. Its about the odi cricket world cup in the shorter format.

 

[Hawkeye]

Overall i would say that a calm and gentle captain like Misbah was important to take Pakistan out of the dark days of 2010 and build a positive image of the team. Players put their heads down and worked hard under him, generally not indulging in controversies. He created a one dimensional , boring test team that was suitable for and showed resilience in subcontinent conditions but generally struggled outside their comfort zone.

But [MENTION=131678]Madplayer[/MENTION] -- you completely missed the point of this thread.

There were no "dark days" from 1980 (post Imran Khan) to 2010! We're talking about not 5 or 6 years.. we're talking about the entire history of modern Pak cricket post Imran Khan!

It's been 20-30 years. There was a lot 'flair' and 'shaska' and everything you're asking for.

Yet the team was of LOSERS. We got beaten again and again, EVEN AT HOME... by every side imaginable! Not just Asian sides!

That was changed ONLY by Misbah ul Haq. We kept losing and losing after Imran, until Misbah came who put some dignity back in our Test team.

Or what is dignity in the eyes of MoYo and his followers on this forum? You keep losing away and are also easily beatable at home? That is not dignity. That's not flair.

That's what you call losers.

 

[dildildalwalla]

So, the issue the likes of Mohammad Yousuf and his PP followers have with Misbah is:

He didn't build a team. And apparently, Pakistan Test team is a weak side. They cannot win overseas.

So, is that the criteria? Fine.

But... let's first analyze did he build a team that can win at home? We don't have a home. Let's go to the UAE.

- He created a team that's unbeatable in the UAE or Asia.
- He created a team that repeatedly beat sides like England and Australia. Former was number 1.
- He created a side that beat England in England
- He created a side that batted very well in England and Australia.


Now.... let's compare with other captains, shall we?

Let's start from 1980. Who built a team that can win overseas and remain good at home?

- Maybe Imran Khan? Was his side unbeatable at home? Don't know.


Keep forwarding. Who built a team that can win overseas?

- Searching... 1990s and 2000s start. How many Tests did we lose at home and away?

- Still searching.. error 404... no captain found who could build a team invincible at home and won away series.

- How did the batting of all these sides, these past decades, fare overseas? .... Pathetic performances and batting overseas.


Who is Misbah ul Haq's direct competitor? Looks like it's Imran Khan.

- Turns out, Misbah built a team that's amazing in Asia and competitive away. Their batting didn't do bad at all - be it England or Australia.



So... why the bitter hate against Misbah ul Haq, who is Pakistan's 2nd most prolific captain?

How come he gets criticized, the person has done better than ALL the other captains? It's made out as if he's worse than others.

Or did Misbah steal your cookies?

we're talking about the premier format - Tests. Changing captains in ODIs is not going to have any effect unless and until you bring modern day game players. We're a total failure there - be it Sarfraz or Misbah

Agreed entirely.

We also have to remember that the away defeat to Australia was VERY competitive, Pak could have started the 3rd test 1-0 up if those 2 idiots at the end hadn't decided on a stupid run and teh second test had been a draw, which it almost was.

It was the most competitive I have seen Pak in Australia in the last 17 years.

 

[Hawkeye]

Inzamam's team was quite strong, at full strength. Nonetheless, I agree with the premise of this thread. PP'ers are just being bitter and ungrateful. Misbah has developed a full set of good players and is leaving us in great shape.

Definitely. I agree 100 percent. Misbah is probably the most under appreciated captain ever.

Correct mates. I fail to understand why all the hatred is directed at him, when he's the guy who is second only to IK at being the most competitive.
[MENTION=3340]samiakh[/MENTION] -- imo IK was better, so not sure what you meant by that post.

 

[Hawkeye]

Agreed entirely.

We also have to remember that the away defeat to Australia was VERY competitive, Pak could have started the 3rd test 1-0 up if those 2 idiots at the end hadn't decided on a stupid run and teh second test had been a draw, which it almost was.

It was the most competitive I have seen Pak in Australia in the last 17 years.

I missed that point, and you're very right.

We recently had 2 tough away tours - drew one and the most competitive we've been in Australia after Imran Khan.

And people still hate him, more than all the dud captains we had in the last 20-30 years. )

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Misbah's side went seven Test series unbeaten in 2010-2012 and 2014-2016.

The last Pakistan Test captain to go on that unbeaten streak was Imran Khan in the mid to late 1980s.

People shouldn't take our home form granted. I remember in the late 90s we shelled series against the likes of NZ, Zimbabwe, SAF, England and Sri Lanka. Not to mention the India defeat in 2004.

That is also because Misbah never captained when Pakistan were still playing in pakistan. The UAE is actually quite different and it actually suits Pakistan's style of play better than pakistan itself.

 

[dildildalwalla]

I missed that point, and you're very right.

We recently had 2 tough away tours - drew one and the most competitive we've been in Australia after Imran Khan.

And people still hate him, more than all the dud captains we had in the last 20-30 years. )

We also have to remember that under Misbah, Pak have had 2 periods in which they went 7 test series unbeaten, that's 14 test series, 8 of which were away and...well, even the home tests are only really "home".

It's remarkable and we have long term players who can stay in the team for a long time, Ali, Shafiq, Amir, Shah, possibly Junaid and Sohail.

It's important that a great captain leave behind a legacy and there are a group of players that future teams can be built around.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

The team that Imran built was the most strongest and many of them were future stars for Pakistan.

 

[Asim2Good]

Imran left a team with Wasim, Waqar, Saeed, Mushtaq, Aamir Sohail, Inzi. To do this he had to marginalize established players like Salim Malik, Mudassar even Abdul Qadir who was one of his favorites. If it was Misbah in charge our 1992 wc side would have had Mudassar, Mohsin, Qadir, Salim You suffer etc. Instead Imran took a chance on the younger brigade that's the big difference between him and Misbah

Saeed was dropped after one test by Imran.
Mushtaq playes 3 tests under Imran in 90s and came back into team AFTER Imran
Inzi made test debut AFTER Imran.
Amir Sohail also made test debut AFTER Imran

Yes these players made ODI debuts while Imran was captain but they were not established at all under Imran.

 

[RagingJ]

Why does one have to look just at Misbah's Pakistani counterparts? Why not go beyond and compare him with captains of other teams who in the past have left behind great teams when they retired or even the captains today who are trying to create good teams? Or is it that fans consider Pakistani captain to be incapable of creating such a team? If no Pakistani captain has done it in the past, it is okay if no one does it in the future. That seems to be the case here.

Personally i believe Misbah's team was a great team in home like conditions. This is because most of the players are similar to each other but are suitable for such conditions. The batting line up is one dimensional barring sarfaraz who came in the team quite late. Their is left arm fast bowlers galore who create rough for the spinners which again helps them in these conditions. The team competed well in only one series out of subcontinent in England. Got whitewashed almost everywhere else (SA, NZ, AUS). Lost to zimbabwe which no body could imagine. Over reliance on spinners and inability of the batsmen to get on with the game and score at a rate which would put the other team on the backfoot was a reason for this. This style was fine for UAE but not outside it.

Overall i would say that a calm and gentle captain like Misbah was important to take Pakistan out of the dark days of 2010 and build a positive image of the team. Players put their heads down and worked hard under him, generally not indulging in controversies. He created a one dimensional , boring test team that was suitable for and showed resilience in subcontinent conditions but generally struggled outside their comfort zone.

Moving forward i would like to see a bit more flair in the test team where batsmen in particular try to push for results rather than hoping the spinners to do the work on 4th and 5th day.

I completely agree with this.

From home form, to away form, players picked, the team being one dimensional, and not many youngsters being bled in. In fact one promising one kicked out when doing well who is now borderline atrocious.

Madplayer is spot on with his comments and hasn't said anything unreasonable in anyway, I'm not sure why they are getting hate. In fact, it's one of the best posts I have seen here.

 

[Asim2Good]

Let's see Imran's team who won WC and how established that team was
Imran (c) - 39 year old , player who retired/ left after previous cup in 1987 but brought back.
Javed Miandad - established with 17 years of experience with him
Aamir Sohail - 5 ODIs before WC and made test debut AFTER Imran
Aaqib Javed -20 yr old, 2-3 years of exp in ODI and 8 tests before WC
Ijaz Ahmad - been in team since 86-87 but not established. Developed AFTER Imran.
Inzamam - 7 ODI before WC and test debut AFTER Imran.
Iqbal Sikander - Debut in WC and career ended in same WC with 4 matches under his belt, never played a test.
Moin Khan - 5 tests before WC,16 ODIs before WC. One of worst keeper of that time.
Mushtaq Ahmad - 3 test before WC, 3 years of exp in ODIs.
Rameez Raja - been part of team since 84/85. As established just like Umar Akmal or Ahmad Shehzad of today.
Saleem Malik - OK
Wasim Akram - OK
Wasim Haider - another player whose career started in that WC and ended in very same WC with 3 ODIs, never played test.
Zahid Fazal - 6 tests before WC (3 after Imran), 10 ODIs before WC

2 players were injured
Waqar - ok
Saeed Anwer - ok in ODIs, but was dropped from team after 1 test by Imran, cost him 3-4 years of tests

 

[Speedster777]

Imran was the greatest captain and his greatness lied in the fact he selflessly built a team of match winners for the future. Misbah is a person of zero IQ he should be compared with mediocre players like himself. His team mates were fixing matches under his nose in IU that shows what poor hold he has over his team. Nobody could dare do that under Imran. Misbah is a poor captain who sidelined youngsters to secure his own spot. Nobody is going to remember his meaningless test wins in UAE on spinner friendly phattas. What matters is when he left, Test team ranked lower than before and in total disarray.

 

[in_cutter]

Imran was the greatest captain and his greatness lied in the fact he selflessly built a team of match winners for the future. Misbah is a person of zero IQ he should be compared with mediocre players like himself. His team mates were fixing matches under his nose in IU that shows what poor hold he has over his team. Nobody could dare do that under Imran. Misbah is a poor captain who sidelined youngsters to secure his own spot. Nobody is going to remember his meaningless test wins in UAE on spinner friendly phattas. What matters is when he left, Test team ranked lower than before and in total disarray.

What a bitter post. Meaningless Test wins??

Shows your blind hate for Misbah by dragging him into the fixing scandal. Should he be holding the players hands or tie them to a leash? Fixing has been forever present in Pak cricket.

 

[Syed1]

Seriously doubt the quality of posters who think Misbah developed strong sides. When Misbah quit the ODI side we were ranked at number 8. Misbah is on the verge of quitting the test side and we are ranked at 5 or 6. The T20 side was also floundering like no tomorrow before Misbah quit, but T20 rankings don't really matter so I won't mention them.

 

[Big Mac]

Imran was the greatest captain and his greatness lied in the fact he selflessly built a team of match winners for the future. Misbah is a person of zero IQ he should be compared with mediocre players like himself. His team mates were fixing matches under his nose in IU that shows what poor hold he has over his team. Nobody could dare do that under Imran. Misbah is a poor captain who sidelined youngsters to secure his own spot. Nobody is going to remember his meaningless test wins in UAE on spinner friendly phattas. What matters is when he left, Test team ranked lower than before and in total disarray.

You really want to put the fixing onto Misbah's shoulders?

When basically everyone caught up in the Qayyum report started under Imran (Ata-ur-Rehman is the only one not to play under Imran), are you going to blame Imran for introducing a bunch of fixers into the team?

 

[New Yorker]

Agreed entirely.

We also have to remember that the away defeat to Australia was VERY competitive, Pak could have started the 3rd test 1-0 up if those 2 idiots at the end hadn't decided on a stupid run and teh second test had been a draw, which it almost was.

It was the most competitive I have seen Pak in Australia in the last 17 years.

Pity that the NZ series was anything but competitive.

Misbah was undeniably successful captain. He led a team that was strong at home, but not
invincible. It drew against NZ and SA. During his tenure a number of teams were dominant
at home, India more so than Pakistan.

Hi achievements notwithstanding he leaves behind a team that bears no comparison to Imran's troupe.

That is not necessarily Misbah's fault. Talents like Wasim and Waqar don't come along all
the time.

But let's be realistic in our appraisal of the current line up. The pace bowling is outright
poor compared to what SA, Aus, Eng can field. Once YK retires, the only batsmen of notable stature
left will be Azhar, possibly the most impact-less run gatherer in Pakistani history. Babar is very promising, and that is about it.

 

[Bilal7]

Inzamam is an underrated leader. He led the team well and considering he had Yousuf, Younis, Malik, Kamran, Afridi, Razzaq and Akhtar in his team, he kept the dressing room atmosphere harmonious to a degree. Pakistan were the #3 test team in the world under his captaincy, which was pretty good considering the strength of Australia at that time.

After his retirement, crap hit the fan and everyone started stabbing everyone in the back. That period, after Inzi's retirement and before Misbah's appointment as captain, was a very dark one for Pakistan. Oath-gate, dressing-room spats every week, humiliation in Australia and the spot-fixing saga all took place in those few years.

Of course, the secular brigade won't acknowledge this because gasp, how dare he pray openly?

Seriously doubt the quality of posters who think Misbah developed strong sides. When Misbah quit the ODI side we were ranked at number 8. Misbah is on the verge of quitting the test side and we are ranked at 5 or 6. The T20 side was also floundering like no tomorrow before Misbah quit, but T20 rankings don't really matter so I won't mention them.

So if Misbah had retired after the series against England, he would have been the best thing ever? The strength of a team is not always determined by the rankings. South Africa were ranked #7 earlier this year, for example. Pakistan is only behind South Africa and Australia right now and Misbah is leaving behind a quality bunch of test players.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Just stop this non sense. In tests misbah is one of the best ever. What he achieved in the uae is amazing. He gave us something special. We can be proud of tje record there.

ODIs or should i call them JAModis. He won IN india and sa.

During the wc 2015. We at pp wanted at that time shezad, sarfaraz, UA , haris , maqsood.

He played them in the big KO game. He left out yk and what exactly did our youngsta beauty do?

They flopped!

If he eventually wants to play that lineup then he should have played them at least 1 or 1.5 years ago...After 2012 dec defeat against pak, india dropped sehwag, gambhir, Yuvraj and few more... only three players dhoni, kohli and raina are the ones who played the 2011 CWC winning team played 2015 CWC... had pakistan won 2011 CWC, the same set of players would be playing till 2019 CWC.. thats the difference b/w forward thinking/planning for the future and duds... MISBAH clearly never had the eye to judge a talent..when haris sohail was doing well in odis and hafeez not doing so good in tests for years, should have debuted haris in tests long ago or at least when ahmed shehzad got injured... U see Mickey , saw babar is the best batsman moved him to no.3 , debuted him in tests, also put him at no.3 in tests too.. saw sharjeel is the only dynamic player in the LOIs took him in all formats and gave him a test debut too.. if he hasnt got caught for fixing he would be opening for pak in the upcoming tests too...MISBAH and Dave played Umer Amin as an opener in SA against SA where showed good promise as an opener, then never given a chance again, but they got riffat to open, bilal asif to open lol no words to say...all in all he got riffat to replace sharjeel, when he had hussain talat warming the bench...what kind of MISBAH are we talking, i seriously dont know.. I agree he did very well to keep pak controversy free in his tenure , job well done, but he forgot to build a team...

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

this is again the blind defense of misbah that has polarized our cricket.

as a player, and i am keeping this simple, you are supposed to be compared with your contemporaries. say for example, take the example of a class room where there are twenty kids studying and they take an exam. their performance is compared with each other, and a kid taking 80 may actually be the topper of that class. it may so happen that last year the kid who got 80 was last in the class and that is immaterial.

you are only compared to what is happening around the world because that is who you are going to play against.

misbah's team is going to play against the current australian team, not the great aussie team of the past, or the great windies team of the past, or the average indian team of the 90's.

misbah as a captain has made a lot of good decisions but criticism on him in certain facets of the game is absolutely valid. and that is all. no need to keep referring to past to point out flaws and say, look he has done better than everyone before him.

the only thing that matters now is where we stand in the ranking as of now. not in the 1960's or 80's etc.

 

[The_Odd_One]

After Imran, only Wasim, Inzy, and Misbah were decent captains.

However, the talent that was available to both Wasim and Inzy cannot be compared to the garbage available to Misbah. Overall, Misbah has done well as a leader.

And before, anyone bringing overseas tours into discussion, I would like to know how many test matches did Pakistan win in Australia under other captains? Misbah at least built a solid test team for home conditions unlike his predecessors who even lost at home.