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Pakistani doctors with MS, MD degrees sacked in Saudi Arabia

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https://www.dawn.com/news/1498520/pakistani-doctors-with-ms-md-degrees-sacked-in-saudi-arabia

LAHORE: In a worrying development, Saudi Arabia and some other Arab countries have rejected the century-old postgraduate degree programme of Pakistan — MS (Master of Surgery) and MD (Doctor of Medicine) — removing it from the eligibility list of the highest paid tier.

This decision has reportedly rendered hundreds of highly qualified medics jobless. A majority of them are in Saudi Arabia who have been told to leave or be ready for deportation.

Rejecting Pakistan’s MS/MD degree, the Saudi ministry of health claimed it lacked structured training programme, a mandatory requirement to hire medics against important positions. After the Saudi move, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain also took the similar step.

Most of the affected doctors were hired by a team of the Saudi health ministry in 2016 when it conducted interviews in Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad after inviting applications online.

One of the affected doctors told Dawn the decision had brought embarrassment for them since the same degree programme offered by India, Egypt, Sudan and Bangladesh was acceptable in Saudi Arabia and other countries.

Degree programme lacks mandatory training, says Saudi health ministry; affected doctors blame CPSP for their plight

This correspondent has obtained copies of service termination letters of several doctors issued by the Saudi Commission for Health Specialties (SCFHS).

“Your application for professional qualification has been rejected. Reason is that your master degree from Pakistan is not acceptable according to the SCFHS regulations,” reads a letter.

Some of the affected doctors and senior health officials in Pakistan blame the College of Physicians and Surgeons Pakistan (CPSP) for damaging their career.

A spokesperson for the Association of University Physicians and Surgeons Pakistan, Dr Asad Noor Mirza, takes it as a setback for Pakistan’s major degree qualification and disrespect to the highly qualified cream of the nation.

He claimed that CPSP delegations during recent visits to Saudi Arabia and some Gulf states had presented distorted facts about Pakistan’s university programme to maintain monopoly of the CPSP-sponsored FCPS qualification.

Mr Noor told Dawn Pakistan had to face a huge loss of foreign remittance in addition to sufferings of the medics in the form of joblessness.

Talking to this correspondent from Saudi Arabia on phone, Dr Ali Usman, an affected medic, said, “I had done five-year postgraduate qualification from the University of Health Sciences, Lahore, with training from Lahore General Hospital... But all of a sudden the Saudi health ministry terminated my job contract, landing me and my family in immense shock.”

Dr Usman said when he contacted Director General of Collaboration Department, Saudi Arabia, Saeedul Barki, he told him that his qualification was rejected when the CPSP delegation told the authorities that there was no training-based post-graduate medical degree in Pakistan, except FCPS. Mr Barki said the CPSP president held multiple meetings with relevant officials in Saudi Arabia and asked the authorities to consider only FCSP qualified Pakistani medics for jobs here.

He said the CPSP had misled the SCFHS ignoring the fact that Pakistan’s university degree qualification was a structured training programme.

University of Health Sciences Vice Chancellor Prof Dr Javed Akram dispelled the impression that the MS/MD programme was not a structured training qualification.

“The MS/MD programme was started in 1914 and the first MS degree was awarded to G.B. Kapoor from Punjab University,” he said.

“The MS/MD degrees have been declared a five-year level-III research and clinical qualification by the Pakistan Medical and Dental Council,” he said.

“The MS and MD degrees are enriched with dynamic, congruent and structured curriculum comprising clinical and research component at par excellence of international standards designed by the World Federation of Medical Education,” Prof Akram said.

He said the University of Health Sciences and many senior medical experts from all over the country had recently took up the issue of termination of jobs of Pakistani medics and also talked to the SCFHS.

According to official figures, currently 4,440 postgraduates are serving at various government and private medical institutions in Pakistan. Of them, 102 are teaching as faculty members in senior positions.

CPSP president Prof Dr Zafarullah Chaudhry could not be contacted for comments despite attempts. However, Dean (academics) of the CPSP, Prof Dr Ghulam Mustafa Arain, rejected the allegations levelled by the affected doctors and said the CPSP representatives had been promoting FCPS qualification during visits abroad to create a good image of Pakistan in the field of medical education.

However, he added, “the CPSP can’t think of degrading any medical education programme of Pakistan abroad”.

Secretary of the Specialised Healthcare and Medical Education Department, Punjab, Momin Agha, said they had taken up the issue with provincial Health Minister Dr Yasmin Rashid. He said after deliberations, it had been unanimously decided to hand over the matter to the medical education committee which was looking after under-graduate and post-graduate degree programmes.

The committee comprising senior medical teachers of high repute would examine the issue in respect of reforms in the MS/MD qualification, if needed, to meet the international requirements.

“It is clear that the MS/MD qualification is a structured degree programme which meets all job requirements locally and internationally,” Mr Agha said.

He said the local health authorities would take up the matter with health managers in the Arab countries.

Published in Dawn, August 7th, 2019
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] Your views on this as you also graduated from Pakistan? After the Saudi move, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain also took the similar step.
 
Without a job, they will be forced to move back to Pakistan which can only be a positive in the long term. Pakistan really is struggling with education following the PPP/PMLN decades long destruction of the education system.
 
I'm in this field so I know the facts.

Pakistan has many type of "specialist" only one of them FCPS ( Fellow of college of Physicians and Surgeons ) are very well trained specialist. Its hard to get into it, exams and training are tough and they are good doctors, by any international standard.

MS and MD are basically a backdoor of becoming a "specialist", their entry into specialization is not by a strict exam, rather by recommendations. Their training structure is not very well organized and MD and MS are not as well trained as FCPSs are, not even close.

I was surprised MD and MS was recognized in SA and other countries, not any more, not a surprised. There should not a compromise to medical training ,particularly for specialist.
 
I'm in this field so I know the facts.

Pakistan has many type of "specialist" only one of them FCPS ( Fellow of college of Physicians and Surgeons ) are very well trained specialist. Its hard to get into it, exams and training are tough and they are good doctors, by any international standard.

MS and MD are basically a backdoor of becoming a "specialist", their entry into specialization is not by a strict exam, rather by recommendations. Their training structure is not very well organized and MD and MS are not as well trained as FCPSs are, not even close.

I was surprised MD and MS was recognized in SA and other countries, not any more, not a surprised. There should not a compromise to medical training ,particularly for specialist.


But that is the difference between Specialist and Super specialist, first you do MBBS then MD/MS as specialist. It is same in both India and Pakistan. For Super specialist India has DM and Fellowship, Pakistan has Fellow. It is similar in many countries but only Pakistan was targeted here, from the article:

"the decision had brought embarrassment for them since the same degree programme offered by India, Egypt, Sudan and Bangladesh was acceptable in Saudi Arabia and other countries."

"After the Saudi move, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain also took the similar step."
 
But that is the difference between Specialist and Super specialist, first you do MBBS then MD/MS as specialist. It is same in both India and Pakistan. For Super specialist India has DM and Fellowship, Pakistan has Fellow. It is similar in many countries but only Pakistan was targeted here, from the article:

"the decision had brought embarrassment for them since the same degree programme offered by India, Egypt, Sudan and Bangladesh was acceptable in Saudi Arabia and other countries."

"After the Saudi move, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain also took the similar step."

I have personally met some MS and MDs in Pakistan in my field and they were not "specialists" at all. FCPSs are not "super specialist" they are specialists. There are some MCPS ( members of college of physicians and Surgeons ), they are below FCPSs but their level of training and education is quite good, but certainly not this MS and MDs.
 
Before blaming others we should analyze our standard of educations of MDs and MSs. It must be and it is very low, hence the consequences.
 
I have personally met some MS and MDs in Pakistan in my field and they were not "specialists" at all. FCPSs are not "super specialist" they are specialists. There are some MCPS ( members of college of physicians and Surgeons ), they are below FCPSs but their level of training and education is quite good, but certainly not this MS and MDs.

Yeah but you ignore the part of his comment where he mentions that they are firing people with similar degrees from other countries.
 
Yeah but you ignore the part of his comment where he mentions that they are firing people with similar degrees from other countries.

Exactly, The same MD/MS degree holders of India, Bangladesh, Sudan and Egypt are being recognised by Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar and Bahrain. Everyone knows India/Pakistan/Bangladesh have similar career path for doctors: First MBBS then MD/MS. The news report clearly mentions this:

"the decision had brought embarrassment for them since the same degree programme offered by India, Egypt, Sudan and Bangladesh was acceptable in Saudi Arabia and other countries."

"After the Saudi move, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain also took the similar step."
 
Yeah but you ignore the part of his comment where he mentions that they are firing people with similar degrees from other countries.

Similar name of the degree from different countries does not mean they have similar level of training and education. In Pakistan MD and MS doctors have very low level of training and its relatively a new development. I know India has MD degree for long time and its their level of training and duration of training is equivalent to Pakistan's FCPS level and I think in BD and other countries MDs are their top post graduation training degree , not in Pakistan.
 
Similar name of the degree from different countries does not mean they have similar level of training and education. In Pakistan MD and MS doctors have very low level of training and its relatively a new development. I know India has MD degree for long time and its their level of training and duration of training is equivalent to Pakistan's FCPS level and I think in BD and other countries MDs are their top post graduation training degree , not in Pakistan.

This. Same degree doesn't mean same level of training.

However it raises another question.

When you recognize a degree and make a bond/contract it means he is legally allowed to practice. If the degree gets de recognized, it should affect only people who have applied after that rule is put in to action. Which means, it should have had stopped the influx of Pakistani MD doctors from now on rather than weeding out the existing one who were working.
 
This is a good news for Pakistan.
[MENTION=141839]moghul[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Background :
For post-graduation of doctors, CPSP (College of Physicians and Surgeons, Pakistan) has a fellowship program FCPS.

Till 2012-13, 99% of doctors opting for post-graduation used to enroll for FCPS training. 1-2% who used to opt for MS/MD were usually those who couldn't pass FCPS entry exam after multiple attempts.And MD/MS program was neither organised not sought after. Since 2012, MD/MS is being promoted more and now has equal seats allocation as for FCPS

So why is MD/MS now being allocated equal seats/academic equivalence to FCPS.
CPSP conducts it's elections regularly for governing panel. For 2 decades till 2006-07, panel X was controlling CPSP Management but Panel Y won in CPSP elections 2008 and every annual elections since then.

Sometime around 2010, panel X wanted to establish a rival PG program and started promoting MD/MS. All because they were ousted from CPSP for foreseeable future. Panel X did have influence in Punjab and managed to pull MD/MS as equivalent to FCPS and both programs now get equal seats allocation, trainees train under same teachers (who ironically hold FCPS degrees and MD/MS trainees train under FCPS teachers) in same wards/hospitals.

Sooner or later, MD/MS mafia in Pakistan was bound to disintegrate. Glad it's happening this early.

It's not like Saudia has sacked FCPS doctors. Good for Pak-Drs community that Saudia is doing it although I believe it's influenced, and rightly so, by CPSP (current panel Y).

I hope this makes it explains why it is a good news for Pakistan.
 
Last edited:
This is a good news for Pakistan.
[MENTION=141839]moghul[/MENTION] [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Background :
For post-graduation of doctors, CPSP (College of Physicians and Surgeons, Pakistan) has a fellowship program FCPS.

Till 2012-13, 99% of doctors opting for post-graduation used to enroll for FCPS training. 1-2% who used to opt for MS/MD were usually those who couldn't pass FCPS entry exam after multiple attempts.And MD/MS program was neither organised not sought after. Since 2012, MD/MS is being promoted more and now has equal seats allocation as for FCPS

So why is MD/MS now being allocated equal seats/academic equivalence to FCPS.
CPSP conducts it's elections regularly for governing panel. For 2 decades till 2006-07, panel X was controlling CPSP Management but Panel Y won in CPSP elections 2008 and every annual elections since then.

Sometime around 2010, panel X wanted to establish a rival PG program and started promoting MD/MS. All because they were ousted from CPSP for foreseeable future. Panel X did have influence in Punjab and managed to pull MD/MS as equivalent to FCPS and both programs now get equal seats allocation, trainees train under same teachers (who ironically hold FCPS degrees and MD/MS trainees train under FCPS teachers) in same wards/hospitals.

Sooner or later, MD/MS mafia in Pakistan was bound to disintegrate. Glad it's happening this early.

It's not like Saudia has sacked FCPS doctors. Good for Pak-Drs community that Saudia is doing it although I believe it's influenced, and rightly so, by CPSP (current panel Y).

I hope this makes it explains why it is a good news for Pakistan.

Why was there two degrees of same type in the same filed was placed in the first place? How it made any sense?
 
Why was there two degrees of same type in the same filed was placed in the first place? How it made any sense?

MD/MS program has been there for many decades but it's format was outdated and below par. After CPSP started its FCPS program, MD/MS couldn't match it and lost in ratings. Nevertheless it still remained as an option for those aspirants who after multiple attempts couldn't pass through FCPS entrance exam that no doubt is a tough exam.

Panel-X who lost CPSP elections sometime around 2007-08 wanted to establish a rival to CPSP. So they started promoting MD/MS against FCPS.

As a matter of fact, this recent surge of MD/MS is nothing but a rivalry between X-Panel and current panel of CPSP. As far as I know, more than 95% advocates of MD/MS program are themselves post-graduates from CPSP, holding FCPS Degree. Just a rivalry but it's damaging healthcare system of Pakistan.
 
Why was there two degrees of same type in the same filed was placed in the first place? How it made any sense?

freaking politics :facepalm: Most Pakistanis play politics against each other in every field and would rather destroy the field instead of letting their opponent work. Backbiting and Backstabbing rampant.
 
KARACHI: A leading body of surgeons has urged the government to take steps for the safe future of over 3,000 health professionals working in Arab countries with MS (Master of Surgery) and MD (Doctor of Medicine) degrees from Pakistan.

Pakistani health professionals faced an uncertain future after Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain rejected Pakistan's MS/MD degree, claiming it lacked a structured training programme, a mandatory requirement for hiring medical professionals.

The move has effectively rendered hundreds of Pakistani medical professionals jobless in Saudi Arabia and the other Arab countries.

Speaking at a press conference at the Karachi Press Club on Saturday, Dr M Arif, the president of the Pakistan Orthopedic Association, and other POA members expressed grave concern over the decision taken by Saudi Commission for Heath Specialties and the Dubai Health Authority to stop recognising MD/MS degrees issued by Pakistani universities.

Dr Naeem Ul Haq said the decision significantly undermined the reputation of our training and many doctors rendered jobless who had been serving in the Middle East for decades.

Dr M Ather Siddiqui said the doctors who had been victimised by this "non-professional behavior" underwent strenuous training, structured exams and research before they were conferred their respective degrees.

The executive board of POA expresses solidarity with doctors who were victims of this decision, urging the Pakistani government, the Higher Education Commission, Pakistan Medical and Dental Council, and other healthcare regularity bodies to persuade the foreign professional registration bodies in the Arab countries to reconsider their decision.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/245108-go...fe-future-of-pakistani-doctors-in-middle-east
 
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