Pakistan's 338 in Champions Trophy final versus Australia's 359 in World Cup final

[msb314]

Which was the better batting performance?

Both teams India sent in the opposition to bat first on a flat pitch and both times the opposition cashed in?

Although Australia scored more runs at the Wanderers - the Oval pitch had more swing in it

Opinions!!

 

[boomboomcheema]

359 in 2003 was probably equivalent to 425-430 these days, it was just unheard of in that time.

Even after posting 339, India had a good chance to chase the target... It wasn't something impossible.

However, 359 sealed the deal completely in favor of Australia there was no chance of India getting that target.

Simple, 359 was the mammoth score.

 

[Ahmad Shah]

there are lot of similarities in these two matches
both matches were final of an ICC tournament
in both matches India won the toss and decided to field

in both matches indian bowling was destroyed and a huge target was set
in both matches india was relying on one man
in 2003 on sachin in 2017 on kohli

in both matches these two men battle was eagerly anticipated
in 2003 it was sachin vs mcgrath
in 2017 it was kohli vs amir

in both matches those start players failed
in 2003 mcgrath won
in 2017 amir won

in both matches india lost the game
in both matches hearts of a billion people broken
after the match 17 million tv sets were broken

 

[Sarwar89]

Sehwag and Pandya played similar innings and both were run out. Yuvraj Singh has the honor of playing in both fnals 2003,2017, failed to make an impact. Yuvraj is a choker in big finals

 

[A.A.Z]

Australia had the better batting performance, but Pakistan's bowling performance was much better. Amir's bowling performance was equal to Ponting's batting performance.

 

[msb314]

there are lot of similarities in these two matches
both matches were final of an ICC tournament
in both matches India won the toss and decided to field

in both matches indian bowling was destroyed and a huge target was set
in both matches india was relying on one man
in 2003 on sachin in 2017 on kohli

in both matches these two men battle was eagerly anticipated
in 2003 it was sachin vs mcgrath
in 2017 it was kohli vs amir

in both matches those start players failed
in 2003 mcgrath won
in 2017 amir won

in both matches india lost the game
in both matches hearts of a billion people broken
after the match 17 million tv sets were broken

The biggest difference was that back in 2003 India were underdogs against Australia going into the final - however in 2017 India went into the final as firm favorites!

 

[The Googly]

Aus 359 was way more impressive of course.

However, India has better bowling today then against Australia.

 

[Enigmatic_786]

India had a seam attack of Srinath, Zaheer Khan and Nehra alongside Harbhajhan. That was a pretty useful attack. B Kumar averaged 39 in ODI's yet he is rated as 'world class.' Srinath, Zaheer and Nehra had far superior records.

 

[kaifmazhar]

India had a seam attack of Srinath, Zaheer Khan and Nehra alongside Harbhajhan. That was a pretty useful attack. B Kumar averaged 39 in ODI's yet he is rated as 'world class.' Srinath, Zaheer and Nehra had far superior records.

Indian media has a habit of putting brand around their player whenever they find anyone doing a little better. The world class tag is thrown at them at a huge discount.
Bhuvaneshwar did very well in this year's IPL which is not an international tourney so his goodness is still required to be tested in the international arena over a sustained period of a good couple of years before one can label a player top of the world type. But then everyone knows the credentials of Indian media. One can move over that without taking them seriously.

 

[Proactive_]

Pakistan's 338 EASILY.

Don't just consider the skill factor here, consider the psychological side of it as well. Australia in 2003 were widely expected to spank Indian bowlers in the Final regardless of anything, whereas Pakistan were bundled out for under 200 by the same Indian attack barely 15 days before. Coming back from that to post a mammoth 338 is easily the better achievement.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Indian media has a habit of putting brand around their player whenever they find anyone doing a little better. The world class tag is thrown at them at a huge discount.
Bhuvaneshwar did very well in this year's IPL which is not an international tourney so his goodness is still required to be tested in the international arena over a sustained period of a good couple of years before one can label a player top of the world type. But then everyone knows the credentials of Indian media. One can move over that without taking them seriously.

Their players are called world class automatically, have no idea why some of them are bangla grade.

 

[ipl_fan]

With Pakistan not scheduled to play before September 2017, we are doomed to see many more such threads. My oh my, how has 1 match changed the way people approach this section.

 

[bilalmasaud]

With Pakistan not scheduled to play before September 2017, we are doomed to see many more such threads. My oh my, how has 1 match changed the way people approach this section.

lol yeah what else to do! watch highlights and find topics to talk about! pakistan cricket calendar sucks

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Pakistan's 338.

Australia's 2003 side was one of the best ODI side ever*. So they, expectedly, delivered a phainta to Indian trundlers™

Pakistan, on the other hand, were hammered in the first game by India and in the final, despite Pakistan winning vs SA/SL/Eng, were the underdogs. This is a very special and epic victory.

*We did win a ODI series vs them in Australia tho

 

[Aman]

Not even close.

350 back then was rare, hell even 400 isn't what it use to be.

 

[Aman]

Pakistan's 338.

Australia's 2003 side was one of the best ODI side ever*. So they, expectedly, delivered a phainta to Indian trundlers™

Pakistan, on the other hand, were hammered in the first game by India and in the final, despite Pakistan winning vs SA/SL/Eng, were the underdogs. This is a very special and epic victory.

*We did win a ODI series vs them in Australia tho

This isn't about expectations... and it isn't close, we ALL know this. How often was 360 scored back in 2003? How often has 330+ been scored in this year alone.

 

[Aman]

350+ scores in 2003

350+ scores 7 months into 2017

330+ scores 7 months into 2017

All scores of 350+ before 2003

Note - 3 of the 9 games were against Kenya

 

[Aman]

Scores of 330+ since Jan 2015...

I had to shrink my page to include them all.

400 has been crossed 7 times during this period, with one team scoring 399 and another scoring 398.

 

[Specialisttailender]

No comparison there, 359 at the world cup was brutal and it was like scoring 420 today. It was also a "WORLD CUP FINAL".

 

[Cricket-passion]

Which was the better batting performance?

Both teams India sent in the opposition to bat first on a flat pitch and both times the opposition cashed in?

Although Australia scored more runs at the Wanderers - the Oval pitch had more swing in it

Opinions!!

339, cause Pak batting was not as strong as that Australian batting line-up.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Australia were better. Indian bowling attack of inform Zak, Srinath and Nehra got destroyed. 300+ scores were not common during that era. Only australia and India used to score 300 plus scores at that time. This is why people were confident of India chasing that target down.

 

[troodon]

For God's sake PCB needs to arrange a series soon. Otherwise this beating of the dead horse is becoming tiring.

Also the likes of Fakhar, Shadab are becoming bigger legends with each passing day with no cricket in sight.

It's one match and Pak played unbelievably well. End of story please.

As for the OP, that innings of ponting is better than anything I have seen in a final. He not only sealed the deal. He also destroyed the confidence and Moral of the entire Indian team. Total ownage and nothing comes close to it. Also it's at the highest stage. A World Cup final. As fans, that beating is something we will remember for ever.

 

[Abdullah719]

Australia's 359 was the better batting performance but Pakistan's 338 might be the more unexpected one.

 

[Asif khan]

Pakistan's was better given the Aussies were pretty much invincible. However, the 2003 final, to me at least, confirmed Ponting as the best batsman of that generation. The guy was demoralising bowlers from 1999 on wards like there was no tomorrow. You just couldn't bowl even slightly short to him....GOAT!

 

[iniqbal223]

That Australian batting had special liking for Indian bowling.. they went on to win 23/25 ODI matches against India from 2003 - 2007; People will say Oz destroyed every team in that era, but the thing is India used to play Australia a lot, they have this intrinsic feeling that they can repeat fluked Kolkata test everytime against Australia, so used to invite australia a lot.

The golden era for indian cricket was from 2007 T20 till 2011 WC; that team created was a great mix of brute force power, talent and consistency. And team was built by MS who went on to give more chances to youngsters and putting pressure on seniors to fight for their place.

Also Indian media still boasts about drawing the series against Australia in 2004; shows that for all the structure, hype and players created by India through IPL , Indian team is still way behind. They can do that, but the fact of the matter is Australia didn't have McGrath, Darren Lehman (Australian best against spinners) and Warne for test series; and their bowling rests on the shoulders of Bracken and Brad Williams. And still India managed to drew the series..

 

[Varun]

Also Indian media still boasts about drawing the series against Australia in 2004; shows that for all the structure, hype and players created by India through IPL , Indian team is still way behind. They can do that, but the fact of the matter is Australia didn't have McGrath, Darren Lehman (Australian best against spinners) and Warne for test series; and their bowling rests on the shoulders of Bracken and Brad Williams. And still India managed to drew the series..

Of course it was a big achievement, considering India's travails away in the 90s.

Likewise, Australia can also be very proud were they to come to India and walk away with a 1-1 result after 4 tests.

 

[msb314]

Of course it was a big achievement, considering India's travails away in the 90s.

Likewise, Australia can also be very proud were they to come to India and walk away with a 1-1 result after 4 tests.

Australia also won the Border Gavaskar series 2-1 in India in 2004

 

[Varun]

Australia also won the Border Gavaskar series 2-1 in India in 2004

Yes, that has been Australia's only win in India since 1968. That team was an ATG and it was fully deserved.

Though the possibilities if Day 5 in Chennai wasn't rained out...

 

[tejamainhoon]

V Kohli's dud captaincy cost India the cup.....Elsewhere,Well played Pak!!!!

 

[Specialisttailender]

V Kohli's dud captaincy cost India the cup.....Elsewhere,Well played Pak!!!!

So did Ganguly's. The idiot chose to bat on the most flattest WC wicket. One thing I saw common in both games was our players got out stupid. Sacin and Dhobi's shot were similar. Sachin skyrocketed to the bowler while Dhoni gave a fielding practice catch to the fielder on the deep square leg.

 

[mak36]

Australia's 359 was the better batting performance but Pakistan's 338 might be the more unexpected one.

Fair assessment.

 

[tejamainhoon]

So did Ganguly's. The idiot chose to bat on the most flattest WC wicket. .

You meant bowl....bcoz Aus batted 1st then

 

[Specialisttailender]

You meant bowl....bcoz Aus batted 1st then

Yes I mean let the other team bat.

 

[Varun]

So did Ganguly's. The idiot chose to bat on the most flattest WC wicket. One thing I saw common in both games was our players got out stupid. Sacin and Dhobi's shot were similar. Sachin skyrocketed to the bowler while Dhoni gave a fielding practice catch to the fielder on the deep square leg.

It's what pressure does to you. Players aren't superhumans that they will deliver every time.

 

[Specialisttailender]

It's what pressure does to you. Players aren't superhumans that they will deliver every time.

I can't let Dhoni get away with pressure excuse since he played in tons of T20 matches and got used to pressure. I have the impression that Sachin was a choker so he gets away. There are too many important matches where Sachin choked. Choked in 2011 WC Final, 2007 WC match where we got eliminated by Sri Lanka, choked vs Bangladesh in earlier match as well. Another choke vs NZ in 1999 WC in the last match where we needed to beat NZ to go to semi and lost by 2-3 runs. Choked vs Australia in 2006 CT trophy and god disqualified. I remember several other Tri series finals and Sharjah finals were Sachin choked for very cheap scores.

 

[sali]

i think 338 because Indian pace bowling was much weaker in 2003.

 

[jonny darko]

Man, the utter disdain the indian bowlers were treated with by Ponting & Martyn that day is beyond comparison.

I was supporting india, besides sachin had such a great tournament so it hurt a lot.

 

[Bilal7]

359 is the bigger and thus the better total. It's simple numeracy. However, Pakistan's overall performance was better than Australia's and of course, there is the added humiliation of being beaten to a pulp by your neighbor that makes the CT17 a national tragedy for every Indian.

What was the bigger choke? Sachin's failure in the WC final or Kohli's in the CT final?

 

[OmaIR1]

I can't let Dhoni get away with pressure excuse since he played in tons of T20 matches and got used to pressure. I have the impression that Sachin was a choker so he gets away. There are too many important matches where Sachin choked. Choked in 2011 WC Final, 2007 WC match where we got eliminated by Sri Lanka, choked vs Bangladesh in earlier match as well. Another choke vs NZ in 1999 WC in the last match where we needed to beat NZ to go to semi and lost by 2-3 runs. Choked vs Australia in 2006 CT trophy and god disqualified. I remember several other Tri series finals and Sharjah finals were Sachin choked for very cheap scores.

I agree about Dhoni's dismissal. I did not expect him to get out in such an Afridiisque way (one man out in deep square leg position and short stuff being bowled - hit it straight to him). Dhoni has been in many pressure situations and this was nothing new.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

I agree about Dhoni's dismissal. I did not expect him to get out in such an Afridiisque way (one man out in deep square leg position and short stuff being bowled - hit it straight to him). Dhoni has been in many pressure situations and this was nothing new.

Scoreboard pressure and a mid 30s player past his prime is not a good mix.

 

[MMHS]

359 - those days, it's a score like that 444 of recent time. I think, Indian attack was Srinath, Zak & Agarkar, which actually is a better pace attack than Oval. But, among 2 group of players, the event got better of Indian pacers while AUS batsmen kept calm on what was a good batting wicket. If I am not wrong, AUS reached 100 in 12 or 13 overs & Indian pacers were all over the place. PAK's total, compared to contemporary game, actually at best above par - in that match day thread, most PAK poster were cursing Babar & Imad for not taking the match out of Indian reach, by posting 360, which should indicate which one is better batting performance.

But yes, most people who have seen both the matches were more surprised with PAK's total than that AUS side & the win margin also much bigger.

 

[Cricketfan2016]

Aussie innings was better completely owned India that day.. Pak got away at start with zaman edges (max runs scored with Edges) when its your day its your day..

 

[mmkextreme_1]

Aussie innings was better completely owned India that day.. Pak got away at start with zaman edges (max runs scored with Edges) when its your day its your day..

What do you mean by "max runs scored by edges" most of the runs if I can remember were all proper cricketing shots and he took the bowlers on with confidence, dispatching them to all parts.

 

[msb314]

359 is the bigger and thus the better total. It's simple numeracy. However, Pakistan's overall performance was better than Australia's and of course, there is the added humiliation of being beaten to a pulp by your neighbor that makes the CT17 a national tragedy for every Indian.

What was the bigger choke? Sachin's failure in the WC final or Kohli's in the CT final?

Plus the Oval pitch assisted the new ball during the first few overs but the Wanderers was completely flat.

 

[srh]

India was humiliated in both cases but since both Australia and Pakistan have better record against India so those humiliating defeats should not bother India too much.

 

[GBK_Fan]

Pakistans batting performance tbh. No one expected them to bat that way. With Australia it was always difficult