Pakistan's bilateral series ODI record against some teams is truly shocking...

[msb314]

I'll cut to the chase.

NZ

Once upon a time - we used to have a dominant record against NZ and they were our bunny. Now lets look at our ODI record against them in recent teams in bilaterals.

2015/16 -> 2-0 to NZ in NZ (this was the series Babar and Hafeez scored big for us but NZ were just better)

2014/15 -> 2-0 to NZ in NZ (this was a short ODI tour of NZ arranged right before the WC and they amassed 370 against us in the 2nd game)

2014/15 -> 3-2 to NZ in UAE (this series marked Haris sohail return to the ODI side but we just could not chase 250-300 scores against them atleast we scored 363 against them in Sharjah thanks to Shehzad)

In fact, the last time we beat them in a bilateral ODI series was in 2010/11 when we beat them 3-2 and saw a young Shehzad blaze away at the top of the order.

Pretty poor record against an ODI side that is not considered one of the best.

SAF

Now lets look at our bilateral ODI record against SAF - now I know the last time we played them in bilaterals in 2013, we beat them 2-1 in SAF and saw Shehzad score a fantastic ODI hundred there but lets look at our record prior to that.

2013 -> 4-1 to SAF in UAE (SAF toured us and resoundingly beat us in almost every game including one game where we lost our last 6 wickets for 20 runs and failed to chase 184 )

2012/13 -> 3-2 to SAF in SAF (we toured SAF earlier that year and lost 3-2 to them)

2010/11 -> 3-2 to SAF in UAE (this series is perhaps most fondly remembered for Razzaq's ATG knock of 108 to chase 290 odd in the 2nd ODI. Sadly it was the only highlight of a tough series that saw Zulqarnain Haider run away and seek asylum )

2007/08 -> 3-2 to SAF in Pakistan (this series was one of the last time a top team toured Pakistan - an almighty collapse in the 5th ODI chasing only 230 odd led us to lose this series as well...)

England

This is truly horrendous since England were not even a decent ODI side until recently and were amongst the worst yet we still outdid them in losing to them for so many years...

2016 -> 4-1 to England in England (less said the better - England scored a world record 444 against us in the 3rd ODi and we were thrashed like no end. Winning the final game by chasing 300+ was of little consolation to us

2015/16 -> 3-1 to England in UAE (we looked good in the first game when Hafeez scored his last ODI hundred to date and easily chased down a below par total by England but it all went downhill from there fast. Had to chase 356 in the series decider and just got blown away....)

2011/12 -> 4-0 to England in UAE (we were led by Mohsin "I beat England 3-0" Khan and got blown away in the ODI series after winning the Test series. Our batting was simply not up to par...)

2010 -> 3-2 to England in England (right after the Spot Fixing Scandal so our morale was very low at the time. Umar Gul bowled amazingly well and was our only highlight of this series as we lost the series decider to lose 3-2 after coming back from 2-0 down)

2006 -> 3-2 to England in England (this series saw YK score his first ODI hundred against a top team. That was probably the only highlight of this ODI series as again we went down 3-2 losing the series decider)

In fact, the last time we beat England in an ODI series was back in 2005 when we beat them 3-2 when England toured Pakistan! That was 12 years ago!!

Australia

This now is truly horrific and possible our worst cricket record right now - let me begin.

2016/17 -> 4-1 to Australia in Australia (Tbh, I had little expectation and was overjoyed when we leveled the series 1-1 and kept Warner and Smith at bay up until that point. Things went quickly downhill and we had to chase 350+ in our last two games and got blown away like a feather in a hurricane...)

2014/15 -> 3-0 to Australia in UAE (this series came right after the high of winning 2-0 against Aus in tests - ODI's was a completely different story as another collapse led to a 3-0 defeat at home. This also saw Fawad Alam's poor ODi run and saw him dropped for the WC squad.)

2012 -> 2-1 to Australia in UAE (we actually did okayish in this series that also saw Nasir Jamshed hit form right before the Aane Do series but again were not quite good enough as we lost this series too.)

2009/10 -> 5-0 to Australia in Australia (this hurts the most - never saw us lose 5-0 up until that point but the 2009/10 period was truly painful and demoralizing for Pakistan cricket. Just not up to par as they memories of that Sydney Test was still fresh in our minds. Blown away again.....)

2009 -> 3-2 to Australia in UAE (ANOTHER defeat to Australia we were so poor in this series as we were struggling to score even 200 on the UAE pitches. Did well in the final game was we chased 254 for the loss of only 3 wickets thanks to a Kammy century but was too little too late)

2004/05 VB Series -> 4-1 to Australia in Australia (technically this was a tri series involving WI but i will mention our games against Aus only - lost every single game against them barring one The only highlight was Salman Butt's form but this was another miserable tour....)

In fact, the last time we beat Australia in an ODI series was in 2002 in Australia when we won 2-1. That was 15 years ago!!!

Seems like we can only beat SL, India, WI, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe in bilateral ODi's

It pained me to even write about this but I hope with Mickey Arthur - we can beat them good teams consistently in bilateral ODI series.

Comment away folks! Don't be shy.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

All this is Fact and publicly available. Any particular derivations you're looking from these numbers that you have pointed out ??

 

[Gubol123]

I'll cut to the chase.

NZ

Once upon a time - we used to have a dominant record against NZ and they were our bunny. Now lets look at our ODI record against them in recent teams in bilaterals.

2015/16 -> 2-0 to NZ in NZ (this was the series Babar and Hafeez scored big for us but NZ were just better)

2014/15 -> 2-0 to NZ in NZ (this was a short ODI tour of NZ arranged right before the WC and they amassed 370 against us in the 2nd game)

2014/15 -> 3-2 to NZ in UAE (this series marked Haris sohail return to the ODI side but we just could not chase 250-300 scores against them atleast we scored 363 against them in Sharjah thanks to Shehzad)

In fact, the last time we beat them in a bilateral ODI series was in 2010/11 when we beat them 3-2 and saw a young Shehzad blaze away at the top of the order.

Pretty poor record against an ODI side that is not considered one of the best.

SAF

Now lets look at our bilateral ODI record against SAF - now I know the last time we played them in bilaterals in 2013, we beat them 2-1 in SAF and saw Shehzad score a fantastic ODI hundred there but lets look at our record prior to that.

2013 -> 4-1 to SAF in UAE (SAF toured us and resoundingly beat us in almost every game including one game where we lost our last 6 wickets for 20 runs and failed to chase 184 )

2012/13 -> 3-2 to SAF in SAF (we toured SAF earlier that year and lost 3-2 to them)

2010/11 -> 3-2 to SAF in UAE (this series is perhaps most fondly remembered for Razzaq's ATG knock of 108 to chase 290 odd in the 2nd ODI. Sadly it was the only highlight of a tough series that saw Zulqarnain Haider run away and seek asylum )

2007/08 -> 3-2 to SAF in Pakistan (this series was one of the last time a top team toured Pakistan - an almighty collapse in the 5th ODI chasing only 230 odd led us to lose this series as well...)

England

This is truly horrendous since England were not even a decent ODI side until recently and were amongst the worst yet we still outdid them in losing to them for so many years...

2016 -> 4-1 to England in England (less said the better - England scored a world record 444 against us in the 3rd ODi and we were thrashed like no end. Winning the final game by chasing 300+ was of little consolation to us

2015/16 -> 3-1 to England in UAE (we looked good in the first game when Hafeez scored his last ODI hundred to date and easily chased down a below par total by England but it all went downhill from there fast. Had to chase 356 in the series decider and just got blown away....)

2011/12 -> 4-0 to England in UAE (we were led by Mohsin "I beat England 3-0" Khan and got blown away in the ODI series after winning the Test series. Our batting was simply not up to par...)

2010 -> 3-2 to England in England (right after the Spot Fixing Scandal so our morale was very low at the time. Umar Gul bowled amazingly well and was our only highlight of this series as we lost the series decider to lose 3-2 after coming back from 2-0 down)

2006 -> 3-2 to England in England (this series saw YK score his first ODI hundred against a top team. That was probably the only highlight of this ODI series as again we went down 3-2 losing the series decider)

In fact, the last time we beat England in an ODI series was back in 2005 when we beat them 3-2 when England toured Pakistan! That was 12 years ago!!

Australia

This now is truly horrific and possible our worst cricket record right now - let me begin.

2016/17 -> 4-1 to Australia in Australia (Tbh, I had little expectation and was overjoyed when we leveled the series 1-1 and kept Warner and Smith at bay up until that point. Things went quickly downhill and we had to chase 350+ in our last two games and got blown away like a feather in a hurricane...)

2014/15 -> 3-0 to Australia in UAE (this series came right after the high of winning 2-0 against Aus in tests - ODI's was a completely different story as another collapse led to a 3-0 defeat at home. This also saw Fawad Alam's poor ODi run and saw him dropped for the WC squad.)

2012 -> 2-1 to Australia in UAE (we actually did okayish in this series that also saw Nasir Jamshed hit form right before the Aane Do series but again were not quite good enough as we lost this series too.)

2009/10 -> 5-0 to Australia in Australia (this hurts the most - never saw us lose 5-0 up until that point but the 2009/10 period was truly painful and demoralizing for Pakistan cricket. Just not up to par as they memories of that Sydney Test was still fresh in our minds. Blown away again.....)

2009 -> 3-2 to Australia in UAE (ANOTHER defeat to Australia we were so poor in this series as we were struggling to score even 200 on the UAE pitches. Did well in the final game was we chased 254 for the loss of only 3 wickets thanks to a Kammy century but was too little too late)

2004/05 VB Series -> 4-1 to Australia in Australia (technically this was a tri series involving WI but i will mention our games against Aus only - lost every single game against them barring one The only highlight was Salman Butt's form but this was another miserable tour....)

In fact, the last time we beat Australia in an ODI series was in 2002 in Australia when we won 2-1. That was 15 years ago!!!

Seems like we can only beat SL, India, WI, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe in bilateral ODi's

It pained me to even write about this but I hope with Mickey Arthur - we can beat them good teams consistently in bilateral ODI series.

Comment away folks! Don't be shy.

NZ is a good team. NZ and England used to be good hunting grounds for Pak teams as many Pak superstars were using England as a finishing school. But with decline in county participation, Pak performance in these countries have gone down. Surprising is to see many home/UAE losses. You need to win at home against even good teams

 

[msb314]

All this is Fact and publicly available. Any particular derivations you're looking from these numbers that you have pointed out ??

Sorry what do you mean?

 

[msb314]

NZ is a good team. NZ and England used to be good hunting grounds for Pak teams as many Pak superstars were using England as a finishing school. But with decline in county participation, Pak performance in these countries have gone down. Surprising is to see many home/UAE losses. You need to win at home against even good teams

They were never great ODi teams...

For Pakistan to have not beaten them in such a long time reflects very poorly on us.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Great attempt to glorify Shehzad

 

[Gubol123]

They were never great ODi teams...

For Pakistan to have not beaten them in such a long time reflects very poorly on us.

they are not a great team, but a good team, especially at home. I think they have a good record against even Australia at home. they also reached last WC final. so they are a good team and no shame losing to them. But they certainly not a great team and don't tour so well. So i am surprised that Pak has lost to them in UAE

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Sorry what do you mean?

I meant are you looking for any particular answers using the above metrics? I mean whats you POV of all this?

 

[Abdullah719]

they are not a great team, but a good team, especially at home. I think they have a good record against even Australia at home. they also reached last WC final. so they are a good team and no shame losing to them. But they certainly not a great team and don't tour so well. So i am surprised that Pak has lost to them in UAE

Pakistan has lost ODIs all the time in UAE in recent times so this is no surprise.

Since we started playing in UAE full-time (2010), we've only won series against Sri Lanka (2x), Afghanistan and West Indies.

South Africa, England and Australia have all won two series each against us in this period, NZ has won one.

Pakistan's record against NZ, SA, Eng and Aus in UAE in this period reads 7 wins and 22 losses.

Hopefully there will be an improvement in this regard under Sarfaraz's leadership.

 

[msb314]

I meant are you looking for any particular answers using the above metrics? I mean whats you POV of all this?

1) Were you aware we have lost so many consecutive ODI series to Australia/England/SAF/NZ?

2) Highlighting our skewed ODI record where we only beat SL, Bangladesh, WI and Zimbabwe on a regular basis

3) Long overdue series win against Australia/England/SAF/NZ - even in UAE would be an achievement since we struggle their too.

 

[msb314]

Great attempt to glorify Shehzad

Please explain how?

 

[Abdullah719]

1) Were you aware we have lost so many consecutive ODI series to Australia/England/SAF/NZ?

2) Highlighting our skewed ODI record where we only beat SL, Bangladesh, WI and Zimbabwe on a regular basis

3) Long overdue series win against Australia/England/SAF/NZ - even in UAE would be an achievement since we struggle their too.

We were borderline minnows under Misbah and Afridi's leadership, barring two 3-match series in India and SA.

 

[msb314]

Pakistan has lost ODIs all the time in UAE in recent times so this is no surprise.

Since we started playing in UAE full-time (2010), we've only won series against Sri Lanka (2x), Afghanistan and West Indies.

South Africa, England and Australia have all won two series each against us in this period, NZ has won one.

Pakistan's record against NZ, SA, Eng and Aus in UAE in this period reads 7 wins and 22 losses.

Hopefully there will be an improvement in this regard under Sarfaraz's leadership.

We have actually beaten WI twice in the UAE.

They toured in 2008/09 as well and we won 3-0 back then too.

 

[Abdullah719]

We have actually beaten WI twice in the UAE.

They toured in 2008/09 as well and we won 3-0 back then too.

Yes, I was referring to the past seven year period since UAE became our 'home'.

 

[msb314]

We were borderline minnows under Misbah and Afridi's leadership, barring two 3-match series in India and SA.

Yes but our ODI losing streak to Australia, England and SAF extends way back to even Inzy's era.

Forgot to mention in my OP but SAF beat us 3-2 when we toured them in 2007 - they scored a record 392 in an ODi against us back then

 

[Gubol123]

We were borderline minnows under Misbah and Afridi's leadership, barring two 3-match series in India and SA.

i think current team is building up very well. they will be a force within a year or two.

 

[The_Odd_One]

That was the era of Younis, Hafeez, Malik, Afridi, Akmal's, etc. No wonder Pakistan lost so many series.

 

[khanz141]

Maybe because Misbah was the captain, you know...

Since then we have won the Champions trophy already

 

[Markhor]

We haven't beaten England away in a bilateral ODI series since 1974.

I'd like us to win more of these series, but if I had to make a choice I'd rather win tournaments - instead of being bilateral kings like South Africa but choking when it matters.

 

[cricketerB94]

In most of those series, our team was like a mess. Hafeez and Jamshed/Shehzad as openers, Shafiq, Misbah and Akmal as middle order, no lower middle order, and Afridi, Wahab, Ajmal, Junaid and Irfan as tail. No team can win with those openers, that middle order and that tail.

 

[Haroon786]

I meant are you looking for any particular answers using the above metrics? I mean whats you POV of all this?

The only logical conclusion from this is that Pakistan have been a crap ODI team for over a decade apart from sporadic periods (2010 England tour to 2011 SL series and 2017 CT).

 

[coy0607]

Pakistan have been a horrific ODI team in the last decade - that is no secret

not sure what you're tying to point out here, and this isn't shocking at all

 

[MMHS]

The only logical conclusion from this is that Pakistan have been a crap ODI team for over a decade apart from sporadic periods (2010 England tour to 2011 SL series and 2017 CT).

To understand that, you don't need to see this results - ranking position (s), tells better story.

What these results indicate, which everyone missed out is that how the team is back-stabbed by own people - the groundsmen & administrators. Even is those bankrupt days of PAK cricket - team won a series in IND, SAF & WI, managed to take a 5 match series to last match in SAF, lost 3-2 in ENG after fixing scandal & actually beat AUS in a meaningful ODI in AUS ..... add to that a WC SF in IND/SRL, a series win in NZ and small, but still only 2nd Asia Cup in BD. Compared to that, the UAE results are embarrassment - only reason being the wickets, where tourists actually know better how to cope on those sh!t beds.

I write it here for you to mark - if PAK plays 20-25 ODIs against even WI, BD, SRL & NZ in UAE/home in next 1 - 2 years ... this side that won a CT in UK, will go down to 9th rank again.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

I'll cut to the chase.

NZ

Once upon a time - we used to have a dominant record against NZ and they were our bunny. Now lets look at our ODI record against them in recent teams in bilaterals.

2015/16 -> 2-0 to NZ in NZ (this was the series Babar and Hafeez scored big for us but NZ were just better)

2014/15 -> 2-0 to NZ in NZ (this was a short ODI tour of NZ arranged right before the WC and they amassed 370 against us in the 2nd game)

2014/15 -> 3-2 to NZ in UAE (this series marked Haris sohail return to the ODI side but we just could not chase 250-300 scores against them atleast we scored 363 against them in Sharjah thanks to Shehzad)

In fact, the last time we beat them in a bilateral ODI series was in 2010/11 when we beat them 3-2 and saw a young Shehzad blaze away at the top of the order.

Pretty poor record against an ODI side that is not considered one of the best.

SAF

Now lets look at our bilateral ODI record against SAF - now I know the last time we played them in bilaterals in 2013, we beat them 2-1 in SAF and saw Shehzad score a fantastic ODI hundred there but lets look at our record prior to that.

2013 -> 4-1 to SAF in UAE (SAF toured us and resoundingly beat us in almost every game including one game where we lost our last 6 wickets for 20 runs and failed to chase 184 )

2012/13 -> 3-2 to SAF in SAF (we toured SAF earlier that year and lost 3-2 to them)

2010/11 -> 3-2 to SAF in UAE (this series is perhaps most fondly remembered for Razzaq's ATG knock of 108 to chase 290 odd in the 2nd ODI. Sadly it was the only highlight of a tough series that saw Zulqarnain Haider run away and seek asylum )

2007/08 -> 3-2 to SAF in Pakistan (this series was one of the last time a top team toured Pakistan - an almighty collapse in the 5th ODI chasing only 230 odd led us to lose this series as well...)

England

This is truly horrendous since England were not even a decent ODI side until recently and were amongst the worst yet we still outdid them in losing to them for so many years...

2016 -> 4-1 to England in England (less said the better - England scored a world record 444 against us in the 3rd ODi and we were thrashed like no end. Winning the final game by chasing 300+ was of little consolation to us

2015/16 -> 3-1 to England in UAE (we looked good in the first game when Hafeez scored his last ODI hundred to date and easily chased down a below par total by England but it all went downhill from there fast. Had to chase 356 in the series decider and just got blown away....)

2011/12 -> 4-0 to England in UAE (we were led by Mohsin "I beat England 3-0" Khan and got blown away in the ODI series after winning the Test series. Our batting was simply not up to par...)

2010 -> 3-2 to England in England (right after the Spot Fixing Scandal so our morale was very low at the time. Umar Gul bowled amazingly well and was our only highlight of this series as we lost the series decider to lose 3-2 after coming back from 2-0 down)

2006 -> 3-2 to England in England (this series saw YK score his first ODI hundred against a top team. That was probably the only highlight of this ODI series as again we went down 3-2 losing the series decider)

In fact, the last time we beat England in an ODI series was back in 2005 when we beat them 3-2 when England toured Pakistan! That was 12 years ago!!

Australia

This now is truly horrific and possible our worst cricket record right now - let me begin.

2016/17 -> 4-1 to Australia in Australia (Tbh, I had little expectation and was overjoyed when we leveled the series 1-1 and kept Warner and Smith at bay up until that point. Things went quickly downhill and we had to chase 350+ in our last two games and got blown away like a feather in a hurricane...)

2014/15 -> 3-0 to Australia in UAE (this series came right after the high of winning 2-0 against Aus in tests - ODI's was a completely different story as another collapse led to a 3-0 defeat at home. This also saw Fawad Alam's poor ODi run and saw him dropped for the WC squad.)

2012 -> 2-1 to Australia in UAE (we actually did okayish in this series that also saw Nasir Jamshed hit form right before the Aane Do series but again were not quite good enough as we lost this series too.)

2009/10 -> 5-0 to Australia in Australia (this hurts the most - never saw us lose 5-0 up until that point but the 2009/10 period was truly painful and demoralizing for Pakistan cricket. Just not up to par as they memories of that Sydney Test was still fresh in our minds. Blown away again.....)

2009 -> 3-2 to Australia in UAE (ANOTHER defeat to Australia we were so poor in this series as we were struggling to score even 200 on the UAE pitches. Did well in the final game was we chased 254 for the loss of only 3 wickets thanks to a Kammy century but was too little too late)

2004/05 VB Series -> 4-1 to Australia in Australia (technically this was a tri series involving WI but i will mention our games against Aus only - lost every single game against them barring one The only highlight was Salman Butt's form but this was another miserable tour....)

In fact, the last time we beat Australia in an ODI series was in 2002 in Australia when we won 2-1. That was 15 years ago!!!

Seems like we can only beat SL, India, WI, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe in bilateral ODi's

It pained me to even write about this but I hope with Mickey Arthur - we can beat them good teams consistently in bilateral ODI series.

Comment away folks! Don't be shy.

I said it many times and I will say it again...The 2008 to 2016 was the WORST period in our cricketing history after the horrible 1960s
2008-2017 PCT is like the ICT of the 90s utterly poor and winning the WT20 only is no solid achievement

The main reasons for such terrible records were
1.Not having a stable captain from 2008 to 2011
2.Having extremely defensive captains like Misbah and Azhar
3.No home series

Good days are ahead insha Allah under Sarfi

 

[idrizzy]

DIfference is from then and now is that we’d hope to be competitive in them games. We were always the underdogs 9 times out of 10 vsing these teams. Ever since Sarfraz took over as ODI captain I feel that our team is more suitable to compete against these bigger teams. I know he was in charge vsing England but they already had a settled team.

Either way, wining trophies > winning bilaterals.

 

[Third_Umpire]

I'll cut to the chase.

Seems like we can only beat SL, India, WI, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe in bilateral ODi's

It pained me to even write about this but I hope with Mickey Arthur - we can beat them good teams consistently in bilateral ODI series.

Comment away folks! Don't be shy.

Shame that we are minnow bashers in ODI cricket...

 

[hadi123]

Many people suggesting that since the CT win we have become a World Class ODI team. We played superbly to win the CT and no one can argue with that but there is no denying that in this decade, Pakistan have been truly awful in ODI series. We had 2 memorable away wins in India and South Africa but apart from that, we have lost many series to all of the bigger teams and the only teams that we can consistently beat are the likes of Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe.
It's strange how Pakistan play fine in tests in UAE and have a strong record there but have been mediocre in LOI series there; we definitely would have competed more had the series' been in Pakistan. But my point is that Pakistan still have a long way to go to become a World Class ODI team as we need to be consistent; if we don't perform well against Sri Lanka and/or lose in NZ, we may be back to square one. I do feel this side has a lot more potential than when we had the likes of YK, Misbah, Shafiq in our XI but NZ away is a great chance as they are struggling at the moment as they were beaten at home in all 3 formats to SA and were poor in the Champions Trophy.

 

[MMHS]

Many people suggesting that since the CT win we have become a World Class ODI team. We played superbly to win the CT and no one can argue with that but there is no denying that in this decade, Pakistan have been truly awful in ODI series. We had 2 memorable away wins in India and South Africa but apart from that, we have lost many series to all of the bigger teams and the only teams that we can consistently beat are the likes of Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe.
It's strange how Pakistan play fine in tests in UAE and have a strong record there but have been mediocre in LOI series there; we definitely would have competed more had the series' been in Pakistan. But my point is that Pakistan still have a long way to go to become a World Class ODI team as we need to be consistent; if we don't perform well against Sri Lanka and/or lose in NZ, we may be back to square one. I do feel this side has a lot more potential than when we had the likes of YK, Misbah, Shafiq in our XI but NZ away is a great chance as they are struggling at the moment as they were beaten at home in all 3 formats to SA and were poor in the Champions Trophy.

Why do you think so? Have you checked the data? W/L at home looks better in last 15 years because of 5-0, 5-0 & 5-0 against BD, BD & ZIM of 2000s; otherwise home record is poor, perforance (beyond W/L), is shambolic & some of the losses are embrassing. Every low of UAE is actually out smarted at home - apart from one series win against Poms. I give some from memory -
a. 2-1 against WI (next series in UAE ended 3-0)
b. 1-2 against SRL, after winning 1st match by 8 wickets (following 2 series in UAE against SRL was won)
c. 2-3 & 1-4 against IND
d. 2-3 against SAF (same as UAE, but this was after leading 2-0 & losing the last one from 23 of 35 required, with 7 wickets at hand)
e. Missing Asia Cup Final qualification
f. Saved by rain from 2-1 at the hands of ZIM
g. 0-3 at the hands of AUS (last time they toured PAK in 1998), with failing to defend 315 in the 3rd match ... in 1990s .....

I am sure I am missing few.

It's a myth that PAK would have done better at home. Actually, that Test No. 1 ranking won't have happened had UAE not been venue. Lots of negatives which everyone knows, but that 3/9 was a blessings for PAK cricket team - otherwise it won't have reached in top 3 of Test ranking playing home Test in PAK. Those 3-0s & 2-0 would have ended at 0-0, or at best 1-0, some times as worse as 0-1. If you are not convinced - check the scorecards of last Test series that took place in PAK against SRL, in 2009..... It went to as worse as losing 0-1 to ZIM & 1-2 to SRL, that too in 1994, after winning the first Test by innings.

------------------------------
CT win was fantastic, won by a dominating KO performance - and that team is also fantastic, despite not picking it's possible best squad. It'll always be the case or similar, in UK, AUS & SAF; if right players are picked under right Captain. It's not by chance that PAK's LO tournament glory is mostly in AUS, UK & IND. No surprise in that - PAK might win 2019 WC, again from 8th rank, if in between those 18 months, team keeps playing lots of ODI in UAE or at home.

 

[ads101]

Eng losses are the worst. England has been a solid but not earth shattering side for the last decade, and yet have beaten us in every ODI series for a decade. It's one thing to lose against Australia who were consistently one of the top ODI teams, but this is different.

What's more embarrassing is that England have rarely taken bilateral ODIs seriously and still trounced us. That's changing a bit lately, but it kind of embarrassing that we played full strength sides and wanted to win while England rested players, didn't care too much about winning and still beat us comfortably.

 

[waleed88]

Almost all those series took place under the captaincy of Misbah and Afridi, Inzi had the luxury of blowing teams away at home, but even he managed to lose two series to India in home conditions (2004, 2006), and a home series to South Africa in 2003/4. Series loss to England 3-2 in England, and a 3-2 win in 2005 in home.
So this trend can be applied to Inzi's captaincy tenure as well.

 

[msb314]

Many people suggesting that since the CT win we have become a World Class ODI team. We played superbly to win the CT and no one can argue with that but there is no denying that in this decade, Pakistan have been truly awful in ODI series. We had 2 memorable away wins in India and South Africa but apart from that, we have lost many series to all of the bigger teams and the only teams that we can consistently beat are the likes of Sri Lanka, West Indies and Zimbabwe.
It's strange how Pakistan play fine in tests in UAE and have a strong record there but have been mediocre in LOI series there; we definitely would have competed more had the series' been in Pakistan. But my point is that Pakistan still have a long way to go to become a World Class ODI team as we need to be consistent; if we don't perform well against Sri Lanka and/or lose in NZ, we may be back to square one. I do feel this side has a lot more potential than when we had the likes of YK, Misbah, Shafiq in our XI but NZ away is a great chance as they are struggling at the moment as they were beaten at home in all 3 formats to SA and were poor in the Champions Trophy.

Not strange at all considering Misbah/YK were excellent in Tests and our attritional style of cricket their along with our strength in spin and playing against spin led to many memorable victories. Unforrunately - ODI's has always been a different ball game and we simply did not have the right players and mindset to compete in the ODI arena. Farhat, Hafeez, Kammy, Misbah, YK, Shafiq simply did not cut it.

 

[msb314]

We haven't beaten England away in a bilateral ODI series since 1974.

I'd like us to win more of these series, but if I had to make a choice I'd rather win tournaments - instead of being bilateral kings like South Africa but choking when it matters.

That is truly astonishing

 

[msb314]

Almost all those series took place under the captaincy of Misbah and Afridi, Inzi had the luxury of blowing teams away at home, but even he managed to lose two series to India in home conditions (2004, 2006), and a home series to South Africa in 2003/4. Series loss to England 3-2 in England, and a 3-2 win in 2005 in home.
So this trend can be applied to Inzi's captaincy tenure as well.

I agree that many of these losses extend to Inzy's era but atleast he can claim a 3-2 ODI series win over England in 2005 and beating India away 4-2

 

[waleed88]

I agree that many of these losses extend to Inzy's era but atleast he can claim a 3-2 ODI series win over England in 2005 and beating India away 4-2

Misbah did the same vs South Africa and India. That series win came in home conditions. That was English team wasn't as good as it was in Tests. Pakistan still lost its games against the top sides.

 

[msb314]

Misbah did the same vs South Africa and India. That series win came in home conditions. That was English team wasn't as good as it was in Tests. Pakistan still lost its games against the top sides.

Fair enough but Inzy's home series losses were to an ATG Indian batting lineup in 2004/2006 whilst the SAF team of 2003/04 was exceptional too with the likes of Smith, Kallis, Gibbs, Boucher, Pollock, Ntini, Donald etc.

Misbah did not have that excuse - several of the Australian teams that played in the UAE (2009.2012,2014) were not that great and frankly neither was the England team that toured in 2012. We should have also fared much better against SAF at home rather than losing 1-4/

 

[waleed88]

Fair enough but Inzy's home series losses were to an ATG Indian batting lineup in 2004/2006 whilst the SAF team of 2003/04 was exceptional too with the likes of Smith, Kallis, Gibbs, Boucher, Pollock, Ntini, Donald etc.

Misbah did not have that excuse - several of the Australian teams that played in the UAE (2009.2012,2014) were not that great and frankly neither was the England team that toured in 2012. We should have also fared much better against SAF at home rather than losing 1-4/

We had Shoaib Akhtar, Inzamam, Yousuf, Younis Khan, Razzaq, Afridi, Malik, Hafeez, Asif, Sami in those years too

While Misbah had to do with Ajmal and him mostly..

 

[MMHS]

We had Shoaib Akhtar, Inzamam, Yousuf, Younis Khan, Razzaq, Afridi, Malik, Hafeez, Asif, Sami in those years too

While Misbah had to do with Ajmal and him mostly..

That's actually not true. Not that it bothers much, but glorifying Misbah isn't required any more - the guy led PAK in 2013 CT trophy as well.

Coming to doing alone is an insult to MoHa - who was absolute beast in UAE ODIs for most part of Misbah's tenure. Batted at 50/85+ stats & bowled at 3.8 economy & 35 average, bowling mostly in PP. Besides, that Series in SAF (2-3) & IND, it was nothing much from Misbah, or Ajmal, rather the new ball pair almost set the matches in 1st spell. Finally, those 2 wins in IND had 2 hundreds from Jamshed, then the only win at UAE against AUS same guy scored 97 ...... then got dropped at first fault. Finally the Asia Cup Final - the man who made the highest score of 49 in a tight win of a low scoring match at run a ball, is the man leading the side now. And, the series win SAF was possible for Ahmed's hundred & Anwar Ali's great debut. In short, it wasn't only Ajmal & Misbah actually.

Every Misbah fan is happy to take those wins in IND, SAF & WI ... as if the messiah brought those by his own mercy; but same people shift goal post when the discussion goes to a different direction - how disgusting that PAK side was to watch in that era. And, if I go to the players picked in those years - the Cheemas & the Tanvirs & Zulfi Babars & Azhar Alis & Asads .......

 

[waleed88]

That's actually not true. Not that it bothers much, but glorifying Misbah isn't required any more - the guy led PAK in 2013 CT trophy as well.

Coming to doing alone is an insult to MoHa - who was absolute beast in UAE ODIs for most part of Misbah's tenure. Batted at 50/85+ stats & bowled at 3.8 economy & 35 average, bowling mostly in PP. Besides, that Series in SAF (2-3) & IND, it was nothing much from Misbah, or Ajmal, rather the new ball pair almost set the matches in 1st spell. Finally, those 2 wins in IND had 2 hundreds from Jamshed, then the only win at UAE against AUS same guy scored 97 ...... then got dropped at first fault. Finally the Asia Cup Final - the man who made the highest score of 49 in a tight win of a low scoring match at run a ball, is the man leading the side now. And, the series win SAF was possible for Ahmed's hundred & Anwar Ali's great debut. In short, it wasn't only Ajmal & Misbah actually.

Every Misbah fan is happy to take those wins in IND, SAF & WI ... as if the messiah brought those by his own mercy; but same people shift goal post when the discussion goes to a different direction - how disgusting that PAK side was to watch in that era. And, if I go to the players picked in those years - the Cheemas & the Tanvirs & Zulfi Babars & Azhar Alis & Asads .......

Complete denial is disapprove that the threat quotient Ajmal proved as a bowler was not matched by anyone else at that time, one of the top 10 bowlers in the world in both Tests and ODIs, and no.1 bowler in t20s for quite a while. His threat level was such people went after other bowlers since they can't go after him.

Conveniently forgetting that the choke induced in the series clincher 2nd ODI vs South Africa was an amazing penultimate over from Ajmal which got rid of Amla playing at a 100 with only a run a ball to get for SA

Conveniently also forgetting Ajmal was almost playable against India in the Aanay Do series (Junaid's heroics were admirable but Ajmal at the other end was equally effective that series).

2 big series, both had a long lasting impact from Ajmal.

 

[waleed88]

That's actually not true. Not that it bothers much, but glorifying Misbah isn't required any more - the guy led PAK in 2013 CT trophy as well.

Coming to doing alone is an insult to MoHa - who was absolute beast in UAE ODIs for most part of Misbah's tenure. Batted at 50/85+ stats & bowled at 3.8 economy & 35 average, bowling mostly in PP. Besides, that Series in SAF (2-3) & IND, it was nothing much from Misbah, or Ajmal, rather the new ball pair almost set the matches in 1st spell. Finally, those 2 wins in IND had 2 hundreds from Jamshed, then the only win at UAE against AUS same guy scored 97 ...... then got dropped at first fault. Finally the Asia Cup Final - the man who made the highest score of 49 in a tight win of a low scoring match at run a ball, is the man leading the side now. And, the series win SAF was possible for Ahmed's hundred & Anwar Ali's great debut. In short, it wasn't only Ajmal & Misbah actually.

Every Misbah fan is happy to take those wins in IND, SAF & WI ... as if the messiah brought those by his own mercy; but same people shift goal post when the discussion goes to a different direction - how disgusting that PAK side was to watch in that era. And, if I go to the players picked in those years - the Cheemas & the Tanvirs & Zulfi Babars & Azhar Alis & Asads .......

The cheemas are the reason we held that Asia cup trophy, so it proved to be a masterstroke by the genius of Misbah, who defended just 7 runs in the last over. Sarfraz's impact was great, but that was game set and match for Bangladesh, only screwed up by themselves in the last few overs. The other end Ajmal tighteend the screws quite a bit with Hafeez in on the act too. It was a collective effort rather than one you try to point out by giving Sarf the only credit

 

[Ab Fan]

BUT

Bilaterals are meaningless cricket.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistan have always struggled against England even when they competed well against strong OZ and WI sides in the 90's. I remember that dibbly dobbler Mark Ealham destroying Pakistan in Sharjah once when most batting lineups would take him to the cleaners. The gap has widened since 2003 though.

 

[Dios]

Seems like we can only beat SL, India, WI, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe in bilateral ODi's

It pained me to even write about this but I hope with Mickey Arthur - we can beat them good teams consistently in bilateral ODI series.

Comment away folks! Don't be shy.

Oh bhai check the result of the last bilateral series between Pakistan and Bangladesh. Your board has been scared to play Bangladesh ever since that phainty.

 

[hadi123]

Not strange at all considering Misbah/YK were excellent in Tests and our attritional style of cricket their along with our strength in spin and playing against spin led to many memorable victories. Unforrunately - ODI's has always been a different ball game and we simply did not have the right players and mindset to compete in the ODI arena. Farhat, Hafeez, Kammy, Misbah, YK, Shafiq simply did not cut it.

Yes that's a good point; our test team in that era was stronger than our LOI teams.

 

[hadi123]

Why do you think so? Have you checked the data? W/L at home looks better in last 15 years because of 5-0, 5-0 & 5-0 against BD, BD & ZIM of 2000s; otherwise home record is poor, perforance (beyond W/L), is shambolic & some of the losses are embrassing. Every low of UAE is actually out smarted at home - apart from one series win against Poms. I give some from memory -
a. 2-1 against WI (next series in UAE ended 3-0)
b. 1-2 against SRL, after winning 1st match by 8 wickets (following 2 series in UAE against SRL was won)
c. 2-3 & 1-4 against IND
d. 2-3 against SAF (same as UAE, but this was after leading 2-0 & losing the last one from 23 of 35 required, with 7 wickets at hand)
e. Missing Asia Cup Final qualification
f. Saved by rain from 2-1 at the hands of ZIM
g. 0-3 at the hands of AUS (last time they toured PAK in 1998), with failing to defend 315 in the 3rd match ... in 1990s .....

I am sure I am missing few.

It's a myth that PAK would have done better at home. Actually, that Test No. 1 ranking won't have happened had UAE not been venue. Lots of negatives which everyone knows, but that 3/9 was a blessings for PAK cricket team - otherwise it won't have reached in top 3 of Test ranking playing home Test in PAK. Those 3-0s & 2-0 would have ended at 0-0, or at best 1-0, some times as worse as 0-1. If you are not convinced - check the scorecards of last Test series that took place in PAK against SRL, in 2009..... It went to as worse as losing 0-1 to ZIM & 1-2 to SRL, that too in 1994, after winning the first Test by innings.

------------------------------
CT win was fantastic, won by a dominating KO performance - and that team is also fantastic, despite not picking it's possible best squad. It'll always be the case or similar, in UK, AUS & SAF; if right players are picked under right Captain. It's not by chance that PAK's LO tournament glory is mostly in AUS, UK & IND. No surprise in that - PAK might win 2019 WC, again from 8th rank, if in between those 18 months, team keeps playing lots of ODI in UAE or at home.

I'm not saying we would have won all of those matches that we lost in UAE if they had been held in Pakistan but if you took the same XIs of both teams from all of those matches and played the match in Pakistan then most likely Pakistan would have competed more.
I can't prove this as it's not possible but there are studies suggesting playing at home can be beneficial to players and can even affect hormone levels; there is a study that found playing at home increases testosterone levels.
Also, playing at home our players would be more familiar with the grounds, less likely to be home sick and the support would be better for our teams. All of this though is not masking the fact, though, that Pakistan have been a mediocre LOI team for a while so let's hope the CT victory was a sign of things to come as we played some amazing cricket there and I was over the moon when we won it. In fact, I still watch highlights of the final all the time.

 

[Destroyer88]

I'll cut to the chase.

NZ

Once upon a time - we used to have a dominant record against NZ and they were our bunny. Now lets look at our ODI record against them in recent teams in bilaterals.

2015/16 -> 2-0 to NZ in NZ (this was the series Babar and Hafeez scored big for us but NZ were just better)

2014/15 -> 2-0 to NZ in NZ (this was a short ODI tour of NZ arranged right before the WC and they amassed 370 against us in the 2nd game)

2014/15 -> 3-2 to NZ in UAE (this series marked Haris sohail return to the ODI side but we just could not chase 250-300 scores against them atleast we scored 363 against them in Sharjah thanks to Shehzad)

In fact, the last time we beat them in a bilateral ODI series was in 2010/11 when we beat them 3-2 and saw a young Shehzad blaze away at the top of the order.

Pretty poor record against an ODI side that is not considered one of the best.

SAF

Now lets look at our bilateral ODI record against SAF - now I know the last time we played them in bilaterals in 2013, we beat them 2-1 in SAF and saw Shehzad score a fantastic ODI hundred there but lets look at our record prior to that.

2013 -> 4-1 to SAF in UAE (SAF toured us and resoundingly beat us in almost every game including one game where we lost our last 6 wickets for 20 runs and failed to chase 184 )

2012/13 -> 3-2 to SAF in SAF (we toured SAF earlier that year and lost 3-2 to them)

2010/11 -> 3-2 to SAF in UAE (this series is perhaps most fondly remembered for Razzaq's ATG knock of 108 to chase 290 odd in the 2nd ODI. Sadly it was the only highlight of a tough series that saw Zulqarnain Haider run away and seek asylum )

2007/08 -> 3-2 to SAF in Pakistan (this series was one of the last time a top team toured Pakistan - an almighty collapse in the 5th ODI chasing only 230 odd led us to lose this series as well...)

England

This is truly horrendous since England were not even a decent ODI side until recently and were amongst the worst yet we still outdid them in losing to them for so many years...

2016 -> 4-1 to England in England (less said the better - England scored a world record 444 against us in the 3rd ODi and we were thrashed like no end. Winning the final game by chasing 300+ was of little consolation to us

2015/16 -> 3-1 to England in UAE (we looked good in the first game when Hafeez scored his last ODI hundred to date and easily chased down a below par total by England but it all went downhill from there fast. Had to chase 356 in the series decider and just got blown away....)

2011/12 -> 4-0 to England in UAE (we were led by Mohsin "I beat England 3-0" Khan and got blown away in the ODI series after winning the Test series. Our batting was simply not up to par...)

2010 -> 3-2 to England in England (right after the Spot Fixing Scandal so our morale was very low at the time. Umar Gul bowled amazingly well and was our only highlight of this series as we lost the series decider to lose 3-2 after coming back from 2-0 down)

2006 -> 3-2 to England in England (this series saw YK score his first ODI hundred against a top team. That was probably the only highlight of this ODI series as again we went down 3-2 losing the series decider)

In fact, the last time we beat England in an ODI series was back in 2005 when we beat them 3-2 when England toured Pakistan! That was 12 years ago!!

Australia

This now is truly horrific and possible our worst cricket record right now - let me begin.

2016/17 -> 4-1 to Australia in Australia (Tbh, I had little expectation and was overjoyed when we leveled the series 1-1 and kept Warner and Smith at bay up until that point. Things went quickly downhill and we had to chase 350+ in our last two games and got blown away like a feather in a hurricane...)

2014/15 -> 3-0 to Australia in UAE (this series came right after the high of winning 2-0 against Aus in tests - ODI's was a completely different story as another collapse led to a 3-0 defeat at home. This also saw Fawad Alam's poor ODi run and saw him dropped for the WC squad.)

2012 -> 2-1 to Australia in UAE (we actually did okayish in this series that also saw Nasir Jamshed hit form right before the Aane Do series but again were not quite good enough as we lost this series too.)

2009/10 -> 5-0 to Australia in Australia (this hurts the most - never saw us lose 5-0 up until that point but the 2009/10 period was truly painful and demoralizing for Pakistan cricket. Just not up to par as they memories of that Sydney Test was still fresh in our minds. Blown away again.....)

2009 -> 3-2 to Australia in UAE (ANOTHER defeat to Australia we were so poor in this series as we were struggling to score even 200 on the UAE pitches. Did well in the final game was we chased 254 for the loss of only 3 wickets thanks to a Kammy century but was too little too late)

2004/05 VB Series -> 4-1 to Australia in Australia (technically this was a tri series involving WI but i will mention our games against Aus only - lost every single game against them barring one The only highlight was Salman Butt's form but this was another miserable tour....)

In fact, the last time we beat Australia in an ODI series was in 2002 in Australia when we won 2-1. That was 15 years ago!!!

Seems like we can only beat SL, India, WI, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe in bilateral ODi's

It pained me to even write about this but I hope with Mickey Arthur - we can beat them good teams consistently in bilateral ODI series.

Comment away folks! Don't be shy.

Correct me if i am wrong. I think the 2006 england odi series ended as a 2-2 draw with one game getting washed out. I know its not even worth a consolation though lol

 

[Slog]

Great attempt to glorify Shehzad

lol exactly thought the same

knew OP was upto something

 

[msb314]

Correct me if i am wrong. I think the 2006 england odi series ended as a 2-2 draw with one game getting washed out. I know its not even worth a consolation though lol

Yes that is correct!

Good catch! The first ODI was washed out and we had a 2-0 lead before England won the last 2 games to draw even at 2-2.

I must have confused it with the 2010 ODI series...

 

[UN talkz]

The cheemas are the reason we held that Asia cup trophy, so it proved to be a masterstroke by the genius of Misbah, who defended just 7 runs in the last over. Sarfraz's impact was great, but that was game set and match for Bangladesh, only screwed up by themselves in the last few overs. The other end Ajmal tighteend the screws quite a bit with Hafeez in on the act too. It was a collective effort rather than one you try to point out by giving Sarf the only credit

9 runs not 7

 

[Buffet]

Since you are referencing the last 10 years here, record is not much to do against some teams. Pakistan has been the bottom two teams in the last 10 years in ODI if you see W/L. That is true for over all W/L and also true against individual opponents.



Pakistan has a losing record against every single opposition except WI in the last 10 years.

So it has been an over all decline of ODI team and not limited to performance against few teams.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Captaincy has a big role especially in odis. Misbah , Afridi and Waqar ruined our odi side. Won't blame Azhar much as he was the recommendation of greatest talent identifiers of Pakistan (i-e Misbah and Waqar) and atleast resigned.

These stats show one thing that Sarfraz has turned around the tides of a below mediocre side but still some people will never give him credit

Pakistan odi side will only get better from here. Backing us to win atleast our next 8/10 odi series against top sides.

 

[MMHS]

I'm not saying we would have won all of those matches that we lost in UAE if they had been held in Pakistan but if you took the same XIs of both teams from all of those matches and played the match in Pakistan then most likely Pakistan would have competed more.
I can't prove this as it's not possible but there are studies suggesting playing at home can be beneficial to players and can even affect hormone levels; there is a study that found playing at home increases testosterone levels.
Also, playing at home our players would be more familiar with the grounds, less likely to be home sick and the support would be better for our teams. All of this though is not masking the fact, though, that Pakistan have been a mediocre LOI team for a while so let's hope the CT victory was a sign of things to come as we played some amazing cricket there and I was over the moon when we won it. In fact, I still watch highlights of the final all the time.

That's universally true for every sports, everywhere - one exception in PAK Cricket team. It's domestic wickets are worst to the core strength of the team. If regular cricket is played - over a 10 years period, I can bet at any stake - PAK's worst performance will be at home; may be W/L won't reflect that decisively; but PAK is just not the team at home that it should be.

Why? - I had a detailed post on that, if you are interested ....

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-work-in-the-home-teams-favour&highlight=home

 

[MMHS]

Complete denial is disapprove that the threat quotient Ajmal proved as a bowler was not matched by anyone else at that time, one of the top 10 bowlers in the world in both Tests and ODIs, and no.1 bowler in t20s for quite a while. His threat level was such people went after other bowlers since they can't go after him.

Conveniently forgetting that the choke induced in the series clincher 2nd ODI vs South Africa was an amazing penultimate over from Ajmal which got rid of Amla playing at a 100 with only a run a ball to get for SA

Conveniently also forgetting Ajmal was almost playable against India in the Aanay Do series (Junaid's heroics were admirable but Ajmal at the other end was equally effective that series).

2 big series, both had a long lasting impact from Ajmal.

Saeed Ajmal hasn't win a MoM ever in a PAK ODI win - but, indeed he was one of the best bowlers of LO cricket.

I am not forgetting Ajmal's contribution at all, rather I am telling someone that it was not a 1.5 man show only. Obviously, you don't need to be genius to understand that if your team is to win against a better opponent - your best bowler can't have a bad day.

 

[MMHS]

The cheemas are the reason we held that Asia cup trophy, so it proved to be a masterstroke by the genius of Misbah, who defended just 7 runs in the last over. Sarfraz's impact was great, but that was game set and match for Bangladesh, only screwed up by themselves in the last few overs. The other end Ajmal tighteend the screws quite a bit with Hafeez in on the act too. It was a collective effort rather than one you try to point out by giving Sarf the only credit

I think, he gave 7 runs, with 9 to defend, in a match that he went for 45(?) in 7 overs for 3 wickets, out of 234/8 in 50 overs.

That match, I can recall a bit better than most, for obvious reasons....... What I know is that, we lost that match for the last over that went for 19 .......... Cheema had better contribution in the match for the wrong reason - with bat, scored 6 of last 2 balls, that was the match decider

 

[MMHS]

The 2nd observation for me from these results is an unique problem for PAK team - a culture that developed under safety first Captains, who loved their buddies. It's unique for me because, when I started watching cricket, PAK had a Captain, who dropped his cousin & mentor, a PAK ATG - because that PAK ATG didn't make the team on merit anymore.

Over the last 10 years, PAK's ODI result is quite decent in Tournaments actually - apart from the 2013 CT. A SF & a Winners medal in CT, a SF & QF in WC ... and not to mention the T20 results, which isn't applicable here. Even we can add 2 Asia Cups as well where PAK made the finals both times, winning once, only it's 2nd title out of 10-12 attempts.

These results are when opponent teams have put their possible best squad. In contrary, recent (it was always, but more prominent recently) trend is that teams don't put their best XI in bilaterals - almost often do experiment with squads & new faces - off course apart from PCB, whose selectors put possible first choice XI against ZIM at Lahore, after an unassailable 2-0 lead in a 3 match series. I can go to CI, but from memory, I can recall the teams that AUS, NZ, SAF put against PAK in UAE.

STILL, the results in bilaterals are horrible - this indicates to me only one clue - THE TEAM WAS FULL OF SELFISH PLAYERS AND THERE WAS A BUDDY CULTURE DEVELOPED IN THE SYSTEM. "You keep me in job, and don't make my life difficult, I'll scratch your back and justify your spot in the team". I won't name players here, but I do understand a bit of this game - how stats can be manipulated, how "apna admi" can be promoted, how positions can be justified in XI & how situations can be used for personal glory (or protection).

To me, that was the worst damage in PAK cricket for last 10-15 years - which has cost a full generation & at one point, made the team comfortably the buddahest squad around - that too based on certificate age. Results are just outcome of the entire mess - otherwise in a small cricket community, an established team like PAK with glorious history & unlimited supply of quality cricketers can't go to a free fall of 9th rank, when the game is seriously played by less than that number.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

It's not shocking. We've had to deal with Misbah and Azhar leading us.

 

[waleed88]

9 runs not 7

Yes my bad

 

[msb314]

It's not shocking. We've had to deal with Misbah and Azhar leading us.

I thought you were Misbah fan?

On topic - if you like at these results, many of them extend back to the Inzy era so I guess the problem is more rooted than just captaincy.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

I thought you were Misbah fan?

On topic - if you like at these results, many of them extend back to the Inzy era so I guess the problem is more rooted than just captaincy.

Inzi was just as bad.

 

[msb314]

lol exactly thought the same

knew OP was upto something

How so?

Although Shehzad is mentioned so are many others such as Hafeez, Babar, Razzaq, Salman Butt, YK, Umar Gul and even Zulqarnain Haider lol

 

[Markhor]

As we go into a bilateral ODI series against England, its worth noting Pakistan have not won an ODI series in England since 1974.

Since the start of 2000, Pakistan have lost 110 out of 178 ODIs against the top 5 sides (ENG, IND, SAF, NZL and AUS) in bilateral series.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...sults;tournament_type=2;type=team;view=series

In this decade, we've only won three ODI series against top sides - New Zealand in 2011, India in 2012/13, and South Africa in 2013.

 

[gazza619]

As we go into a bilateral ODI series against England, its worth noting Pakistan have not won an ODI series in England since 1974.

Since the start of 2000, Pakistan have lost 110 out of 178 ODIs against the top 5 sides (ENG, IND, SAF, NZL and AUS) in bilateral series.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...sults;tournament_type=2;type=team;view=series

In this decade, we've only won three ODI series against top sides - New Zealand in 2011, India in 2012/13, and South Africa in 2013.

Very poor indeed but not as bad as I thought.

We have found some decent players in ODIs in the last 2-3 years. I reckon we will hopefully be back to our winning ways when some of the younger guns mature..

 

[Stewie]

Our cricket has gotten pretty weak since 2003, apart from a few years under Inzi when we did well. Our test team did fine for a few years under Misbah but our ODI performances have been generally getting pretty darn bad.. it’s a combo of focus on T20 and below par batting with the changing times..

 

[pakistani pride]

Who cares JAMODIS.

More often then not PAK turns up during the WC. That matters!

 

[aloo paratha]

Who cares JAMODIS.

More often then not PAK turns up during the WC. That matters!

True in a way, but still, who doesn't like winning?

 

[Mamoon]

Captaincy has a big role especially in odis. Misbah , Afridi and Waqar ruined our odi side. Won't blame Azhar much as he was the recommendation of greatest talent identifiers of Pakistan (i-e Misbah and Waqar) and atleast resigned.

These stats show one thing that Sarfraz has turned around the tides of a below mediocre side but still some people will never give him credit

Pakistan odi side will only get better from here. Backing us to win atleast our next 8/10 odi series against top sides.

This certainly hasn’t aged well. We have been thoroughly humiliated against good teams since 2018.

Our fans were in a dire need of a reality check after the fluke Champions Trophy and some minnow bashing in 2017.

Anyway, we can always credit Sarfraz for our wins but point fingers at others when we lose.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Looks like we've been mediocre odi team throughout our cricketing life. But still I'm hopeful with this current team we have. 2015 was just a disaster. In 2011 people were not even counting on us on making the semis.

 

[Chokli]

JAMODIS are the only ODIs that matter when there isn't a World Cup.

So the JAMODIS aren't actually JAMODIS.

 

[Hasan123]

Our record against England in LO bilaterals is embarrassing. They were rubbish in ODIs till 2015 and we still couldn't beat them.

 

[Mamoon]

Who cares JAMODIS.

More often then not PAK turns up during the WC. That matters!

Oh yes, 1 World Cup trophy in 40 years. I am sure other teams are hoping that we continue to “turn up” at this rate.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

If we had not beaten England previously when they were worst then why we are hoping they will beat them now..

 

[Cric1234]

Who cares JAMODIS.

More often then not PAK turns up during the WC. That matters!

After the 99 World Cup the performances have mostly mirrored the bilaterals which means more often than not the team has been mediocre in the last 15 years including world cups.

 

[Cric1234]

Sarfraz hasn't turned the tide and his backing of past it seniors like Malik and Hafeez tells you everything.

 

[pakistani pride]

Oh yes, 1 World Cup trophy in 40 years. I am sure other teams are hoping that we continue to “turn up” at this rate.

Go back and check PAKs record in big ICC events and then come back.

For example they have done much better then ENG.

Pak beat them in the final in 92 and in the CT SF 2017. Those are big games which make careers.

Who really cares about jamodis?

 

[Mamoon]

Go back and check PAKs record in big ICC events and then come back.

For example they have done much better then ENG.

Pak beat them in the final in 92 and in the CT SF 2017. Those are big games which make careers.

Who really cares about jamodis?

We are not talking about England or other teams and nor are we talking about ICC tournaments in general, although that doesn't paint a pretty picture either. Your claim that Pakistan turns up in World Cups more often than not is not backed by facts. In 40 years, we have won the World Cup only once and have made the finals on only one other occasion. That is not called "turning up when matters".

We are an average World Cup team. Australia, West Indies, India and Sri Lanka are all comfortably ahead of us. However, if it is any consolation, we are better than England, South Africa and New Zealand.

 

[saeedhk]

Who cares JAMODIS.

More often then not PAK turns up during the WC. That matters!

Yes. That is why we have won just one world cup!If that is your definition of turning up, I wish all other teams turn up in this world cup so Pakistan can win!

 

[Markhor]

I know we're not playing ODIs vs New Zealand on this tour but just been digging into our bilateral ODI series record against the top sides, and this idea our struggles started recently is a myth !

Against New Zealand, for all our Test dominance we've lost 13 of 22 ODI series. In NZ, we've lost 10 of 13 series. Our only two away ODI series wins were in 1994 and 2011.

Againat Australia, we've lost 8 of 11.

Againat England, we've lost 13 of 18. Our only three wins were in 1974, 2000 and 2005.

Against South Africa, we've lost 8 of 9. Our only win was in 2013.

Against India though, we've won 11 of 18.

Of course, these don't count Pepsi/Coca Cola/Kitply tri-series and what have you. But replicating good performances over a 3 or 5 match series is another matter.

 

[Heisenberg111]

I know we're not playing ODIs vs New Zealand on this tour but just been digging into our bilateral ODI series record against the top sides, and this idea our struggles started recently is a myth !

Against New Zealand, for all our Test dominance we've lost 13 of 22 ODI series. In NZ, we've lost 10 of 13 series. Our only two away ODI series wins were in 1994 and 2011.

Againat Australia, we've lost 8 of 11.

Againat England, we've lost 13 of 18. Our only three wins were in 1974, 2000 and 2005.

Against South Africa, we've lost 8 of 9. Our only win was in 2013.

Against India though, we've won 11 of 18.

Of course, these don't count Pepsi/Coca Cola/Kitply tri-series and what have you. But replicating good performances over a 3 or 5 match series is another matter.

Bilateral ODI series doesn't give the whole picture though e.g. In Australia we used to have world series cup ( a tri series) till 2008. Pakistan won 3 out of 5 matches against Australia in the 1981/82 world series. Similarly in the 1996/97 world series, Pakistan won 3 out of 4 matches against Australia. But Pakistan's only series win in 2002 in Australia is a bilateral series.

In England, Pakistan won all 3 matches against England in the 2001 Natwest tri series, but of course these matches are not counted in the bilateral series. Against India too Pakistan won all 3 matches in the 1999 Pepsi tri series in India but thats not considered bilateral series either.

 

[Cric1234]

One of the main reasons for this record is the players selected in the top order in the last decade and their averages and strike rates pre 2015 the pitches were more of a mixture where 250 could be a winning score as well as 300 plus.

We have had the likes of Shehzad Azhar Shafiq Younis and Misbah being given long runs in the top order in ODIs despite none of them having a strike rate of over 75.

This had led to consistent below par performances with the bat and too much pressure on the bowlers to win matches how did Shafiq play 60 matches as a top order bat at an average of 24 and strike rate of 67?

 

[msb314]

Unfair to solidly blame the likes of Akmal (Sr and Jr.), Hafeez, Malik, Shehzad, Shafiq, Misbah etc. when we were just as bad during the Inzy era and Wasim / Waqar era...

 

[Cric1234]

Unfair to solidly blame the likes of Akmal (Sr and Jr.), Hafeez, Malik, Shehzad, Shafiq, Misbah etc. when we were just as bad during the Inzy era and Wasim / Waqar era...

We weren’t great but were ranked 3rd a few times and were well capable of beating all teams the last series win against Australia was in 2002 who were easily the best team of the decade.

Post 2010 it’s gone from bad to worse with us being ranked 8th and 9th aswell for periods the batting definitely has been a failure where Hafeez has been one of our best batsmen in ODIs which tells us the main batsmen have failed.