Pakistan's most unreliable collection of "senior batsmen" in Tests?

[Amjid Javed]

Maybe its a case of those pakistani fans that have watched the team for over 20 years have been spoilt for choice when seeing some very good batsmen in our test side in addition the senior players in the side always stood up and lead from the front and in team that mantle was passed down. Now we look at current test side and the senior brigade "hafeez, Azhar and Shafiq" struggle to even bat at semi decent standard of what should be expected of senior players.

Miandad, saleem malik
Inzamam, saeed Anwar
Inzamam, Mo Yousaf
Mo Yousaf, Younis khan
Misbah, Younis khan

Over last 30 years weve always had two main stays of batting who have done a job for the team when required.

I really think if are so called senior players can lead team forward they need to go, id rather struggle with a team of younger batsmen finding their feet then a team struggling with passengers. No misbsh or Yk to carry these players now and they are been shown up as very mefiocre test players currently.

 

[New Yorker]

The absurdity of of investing and reinvesting in Shafiq instead of Fawad Alam. Pakistani selectors never knew how to recognize grit.

 

[asifp]

The absurdity of of investing and reinvesting in Shafiq instead of Fawad Alam. Pakistani selectors never knew how to recognize grit.

This. This single decision has cost us so much.

Asad Shafiq was an average batsman at domestic level so he was never going to be good at Test cricket. Him and Azhar are the two lucky guys. They did not deserve to play for Pakistan this long. Harris Sohail and Fawad were better than them and now they are taking place of promising youngsters like Saud Shakeel.

Since Miandad made his debut in the 70s, we have always had one guy average near 50 in our lineup, Miandad, then Inzi then Moyo and Younus. Even Misbah for a bit of his career.

Now we have no one and it shows.

 

[Saj]

Good thread.

Rabbits in headlights springs to mind at the moment.

Bowlers and newbies can't keep winning us Test matches.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Pakistan is undoubtedly the worst when it comes to destroying players and promising careers of players over the last 30 years.

So many players have come and gone that to list them all is just a hard task and has been done before too.

 

[Barragan]

I don't mind Azhar because he is at least a solid opener and can do the job, hence should go back to opening and no one is a better opener than him.

As for shafiq, no redeeming quality and is mediocre.

Pak almost lost Babar in the Test format because the special youngster could not bat above no. 6 and even there, he has below par averaging in the 30's or low 40.

Waste of time and should be dropped immediately.

 

[asifp]

I just cant get the love with Azhar and Asad.

Fawad does not perform in two games out. These guys can fail for 10 test and will still not be dropped.

They both better be on the chopping block.

 

[Varun]

What a coincidence, here we are feeling the same about the current Indian test team.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

I just cant get the love with Azhar and Asad.

Fawad does not perform in two games out. These guys can fail for 10 test and will still not be dropped.

They both better be on the chopping block.

It's the holy senior tag. It's the thing that got Hafeez back as well.

Every selector/coach is afraid of the backlash they will receive after losing a game without the seniors.

 

[ARK Rafay]

Asad and Azhar has hurt Pakistan test cricket the most. They were supposed to take the responsibilities of Misbah and Younus after their retirement. But haven't been able to do so. Investing the time has not only cost the current team but have also almost ended the careers of potential good players like Fawad Alam.

Such a shame for Asad and Azhar

 

[Ozeirk]

I think Pakistan’s lack of test cricket is to blame for azhar and Asads dip in form. On the other hand Barbar who plays in all formats keeps on improving.

 

[sam_ahm]

This is a very good thread. Asad Shafiq and Azhar Ali, after more than 10 years of international cricket behind them haven't been able to establish themselves as batting mainstays. They are just as good as any other 'decent enough' player in Pakistan. Need not talk about Hafeez, he has been there since ages, everyone knows he is no world beater, adds value because of his bowling, but is it needed in Tests? I don't think so. In ODIs yes, it adds some value, but not in tests.

 

[Amjid Javed]

The most glaring problem for pakistan is the lack of planning in longterm with the batting or team selections.

Opening options:- we arent blessed with that many quality opening batsmen, if we have a weak top order the middle order gets exposed. Azhar does decent job opening, so he gets moved to number 3, wheres the logic behind it?

1) it takes away a middle order spot.
2) we have to now find 2 decent openers - something we dont have
3) Azhars nightwatchmen blocking isnt suited to number 3 spot

Then we re-select hafeez the all roundee to open in UAE.

1) hes under bowled - yet hes the 5th bowling option.
2) 1 good inns and fails with the bat again & again
3) as soon as we leave the UAE hes a sitting duck, where longterm planning

Shafiq has been a massive let down, only seems to score when teams got loads of runs on board or losing cause. Come pressure situation hes found wsnting. A test average below 40 for length ot time hes played is pathetic.

Going forward.

1) hafeez - needs to go this nonsense of short term fixes has to stop. Haris can act as 5th bowler if required.

2) Azhar opens or doesnt play, simple as that as hes killing team batting momentum at 3. So he opens with one of fakhar/imam/shan or Sami

3) haris sohail moves to 3 and cant act as 5th bowling option.

4) Shafiq is given this Series and S.A series to improve or gets the boot.

Time to move forward.

 

[Sadozai]

Talent isn't the only requirement to get selected in Pakistan international team. You should have political / media connections who can campaign for you through sports channels or social media.

Our team management and selectors don't have the balls to make bold decisions. They know they won't be able to absorb the reaction.

Hafeez was dropped for Asia Cup. Do you think he got got back in the team due to his solo batting performance at domestic level? and at the moment he is in team only due to his comeback century? There must be some other factors.

 

[The Viper]

Azhar and Shafiq were supposed to take responsibility after MisYou retirements. But they have failed. It feels like all that investment was a waste. If they don’t improve we might as well try new combinations.

 

[Stewie]

I just realized last night how absolutely weak our test batting is. I dont recall any era in our cricketing history when we didnt have even one batsman averaging in the 40s. This is more like NZ batting in the 90s when for a long period of time they had people playing test cricket batting in the top5-6 and had averages in the mid 20s to mid 30s.

Except for Babar, most of them are inept. And even Babar is just finding his feet. I just somehow feel we made a big blunder in investing in the likes of Azhar and Asad who still after so much experience cant string together decent partnerships with their junior batsmen, so forget about any grooming they can offer the younger ones.

We really need Fakhar in there. I dont care what people say about his temperament or technique if whatever.. we need someone who doesnt rollover and die and shows some fearlessness. All our batsmen got out to such tame dismissals ..

Weakest pak test batting line up. How I miss Misbah, Younis and Yousaf now

 

[Syed1]

I would have understood if people were bashing BOTH Asad and Azhar, but most on here are saying Azhar is acceptable while Asad is a wasted investment. For the experts on here:

Asad's scores in last 12 innings:

112, 62, 1, 59, DNB, 27, 5, 80, 41, 0, 44, 43

Average: 43.10

Azhar's scores in last 12 innings:

17, 4, 2, 50, 4, 2, 11, 18, 4, 15, 64, 22

Average: 17.75




So before people call for Asad's dropping have a look at the score of master blaster best batsman in the side nightwatchman Azhar Ali.

 

[Stewie]

I agree.. asad has lately been much better than Azhar who looks clueless at the moment. But overall, i think they are both equally inept.

 

[New Yorker]

I would have understood if people were bashing BOTH Asad and Azhar, but most on here are saying Azhar is acceptable while Asad is a wasted investment. For the experts on here:

Asad's scores in last 12 innings:

112, 62, 1, 59, DNB, 27, 5, 80, 41, 0, 44, 43

Average: 43.10

Azhar's scores in last 12 innings:

17, 4, 2, 50, 4, 2, 11, 18, 4, 15, 64, 22

Average: 17.75




So before people call for Asad's dropping have a look at the score of master blaster best batsman in the side nightwatchman Azhar Ali.

A good reality check. The only thing that could save Azhar is that there are so few opening alternatives, but quite a few middle order batsman baying for a turn. But that argument to work he would actually have to open. Just a waste of space for now. If they had the guts to drop Amir, they should do the same for him.

 

[Stewie]

We have no world class test batsman right now and future doesnt look good either.. thats the sad reality of it.

 

[Stewie]

Test mein fawad alam ko na khila ker to waqai buhat bari chawwal maari hai board ne

 

[Markhor]

I would have understood if people were bashing BOTH Asad and Azhar, but most on here are saying Azhar is acceptable while Asad is a wasted investment. For the experts on here:

Asad's scores in last 12 innings:

112, 62, 1, 59, DNB, 27, 5, 80, 41, 0, 44, 43

Average: 43.10

Azhar's scores in last 12 innings:

17, 4, 2, 50, 4, 2, 11, 18, 4, 15, 64, 22

Average: 17.75




So before people call for Asad's dropping have a look at the score of master blaster best batsman in the side nightwatchman Azhar Ali.

I was gonna mention this too - I don't think it's fair to lump Azhar and Shafiq together.

Azhar averages 23.80 since the retirement of Misbah and Younis.

Shafiq averages 38.92 in the same timeframe. Now I don't think that's anything to write home about either given he's playing the majority of Tests in UAE but he's handled the responsibilities of a senior batsman better than Azhar has.

 

[Rayyman]

I agree.. asad has lately been much better than Azhar who looks clueless at the moment. But overall, i think they are both equally inept.

He is coming in either 80-3 with pressure on the batting or after 130-3 in 60 overs as Azhar gets out blunting the old ball. You need your best bat at #3. These Azhars, Babars, Hafeezs won't cut it.

 

[Stewie]

This is not azhar vs shafiq contest for eff’s sake. The point is neither of them is as good as the likes of the top pakistani batsmen of previous eras. To me an average below 40 is poor.. doesnt matter if its 38... or 24..

Sure one is poorer than the other but overall both are poor!

 

[Savak]

I heard a rumour that Azhar Ali has a severe degenerative knee condition and the doctors have even told him that he won't really be able to play much longer. It's one of the main reasons why he quit the odi format.

No wonder his form has been very poor in the last one year. Maybe it's time for Pakistan to consider cutting their losses. England got rid of KP because his knee problems meant he was no longer worth carrying and he was 5 times the player Azhar Ali is

 

[Stewie]

I heard a rumour that Azhar Ali has a severe degenerative knee condition and the doctors have even told him that he won't really be able to play much longer. It's one of the main reasons why he quit the odi format.

No wonder his form has been very poor in the last one year. Maybe it's time for Pakistan to consider cutting their losses. England got rid of KP because his knee problems meant he was no longer worth carrying and he was 5 times the player Azhar Ali is

If its true, well sucka for him. Quite honestly he served his country well in the aftermath of the nonall gate under misbah, given his limited abilities and shots. However, there comes a time when you have to take an honest, hard look into yourself and decide whats best for everyone. If what you say is true, i dont think it will get any better for azhar from here. He is just holding up a spot that could go a young batsman we could stsrt grooming.

 

[Markhor]

This is not azhar vs shafiq contest for eff’s sake. The point is neither of them is as good as the likes of the top pakistani batsmen of previous eras. To me an average below 40 is poor.. doesnt matter if its 38... or 24..

Sure one is poorer than the other but overall both are poor!

Oh I agree neither are good enough going forward but it's wishful thinking that our selectors, with their fetish for "experienced seniors", would drop Azhar and Shafiq any time soon. Realistically they'll drop one.

So if the question is who's head should be on the chopping block first - it should be Azhar who has failed consistently for 18 months.

 

[Saj]

I guess this begs the question - are Pakistan's batting resources in domestic cricket pretty weak?

 

[Cric1234]

I guess this begs the question - are Pakistan's batting resources in domestic cricket pretty weak?

They must be how many batsmen average over 50 in domestic cricket the pitches don't help they aren't condusive for strokeplay low scores are more common.

 

[Abdullah Rabbani]

I heard a rumour that Azhar Ali has a severe degenerative knee condition and the doctors have even told him that he won't really be able to play much longer. It's one of the main reasons why he quit the odi format.

No wonder his form has been very poor in the last one year. Maybe it's time for Pakistan to consider cutting their losses. England got rid of KP because his knee problems meant he was no longer worth carrying and he was 5 times the player Azhar Ali is

Why his footwork was poor

 

[shariqnoor]

Azhar's average since Misbah and Younis retired is 24.
Asad's average since Misbah and Younis retired is 39.

Asad is keeping up with his average but Azhar instead of stepping up has regressed a lot. And I'm not sure if Azhar is good as an opener too. He was in a purple patch during Dec2016-April 2017 where he scored lots of runs but otherwise he has a 26 average against England, 25 average against NZ and 27 average against SA as an opener. And in this current form, he would be a sitting duck. Number 3 actually allows him to get back in form. But Azhar has never been one to stamp his authority on the game. Very limited and never a leader. Not sure why Asad gets the rap but Azhar is far far worse.

 

[shariqnoor]

Interesting bit is if Azhar played at a SR of 50 in his Test career like all good batsmen in this era, Azhar's batting average would be 53. Instead it's 44 with a downward trend.

 

[ads101]

Not sure why Asad gets the rap but Azhar is far far worse.

Asad has averaged mid 30s every year since 2016, except 2017 where he averaged 25. He has an average of 33.63 since 2016.

Azhar on the other hand averages 45 since 2016. Yes he has had a bad year this year, but has consistently done well each of the 4 years prior.

The issue I have with Asad is he's been mediocre for 3 years. In fact he's never really hit any great peaks every in his entire test career, despite only focusing on tests. At least Azhar at points was amongst the best top order players at a certain time. Asad has never even been in the top 10, and his highest is 11th which was achieved in 2015.

What's more Asad bats in the middle order where it's easier to bat, especially since our batsmen are troubled more against pace. Misbah and Younis were scoring centuries in the middle order. Middle order bats are expected to score the bulk of the innings and score big as the top order bats have blunted the ball for them.

I think Asad quite rightly takes more cop. Azhar had to bat top order where it's harder and yet he still outperformed Asad.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Once again Hafeez, Asad and Azhar choke when its time for them to set up for the team. Hafeez should never play test cricket again and the other two both played inns like they were worried about their own form then the teams needs.

 

[aukhan]

I wonder what Shafiq would have done if he was in Azhar's position today. He is another deer in the headlights.

 

[We Bleed Green]

But but but Fawad has no technique. We need batsmen who can score at average of 30 runs at decent technique rather than some one who can score at average of 50 with no technique.

 

[Amjid Javed]

reason for doing well in UAE before was because both YK and Misbah would dominate the spinners to such a point that the seamers would then have to do more of the bowling. With our sad pathetic batting we can even negate spin now never mind dominate it.

 

[Saj]

Pakistan since Misbah-ul-Haq and Younis Khan's retirement from Test cricket in May 2017:

Number of innings - 16
Number of times batsmen have made centuries - only 3
Bowled out for - 114 (in UAE), 134, 171 (in UAE), 174, 227 (in UAE), 248 (in UAE) and 262 (in UAE)

What poor stats and shows how much we relied on YK and to a lesser extent Misbah. Also shows what a soft underbelly of batsmen we have been carrying.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Pakistan since Misbah-ul-Haq and Younis Khan's retirement from Test cricket in May 2017:

Number of innings - 16
Number of times batsmen have made centuries - only 3
Bowled out for - 114 (in UAE), 134, 171 (in UAE), 174, 227 (in UAE), 248 (in UAE) and 262 (in UAE)

What poor stats and shows how much we relied on YK and to a lesser extent Misbah. Also shows what a soft underbelly of batsmen we have been carrying.

Simply no excuses for such poor scores, but problem is we have senior players who arent stepping up and taking responsability, also the basic inability of our players to bat with the tail has been very apparent, Azhar, Asad and babar all failing to take control of situation in different games with tail.

 

[Cric1234]

Pakistan since Misbah-ul-Haq and Younis Khan's retirement from Test cricket in May 2017:

Number of innings - 16
Number of times batsmen have made centuries - only 3
Bowled out for - 114 (in UAE), 134, 171 (in UAE), 174, 227 (in UAE), 248 (in UAE) and 262 (in UAE)

What poor stats and shows how much we relied on YK and to a lesser extent Misbah. Also shows what a soft underbelly of batsmen we have been carrying.

There were collapses and losses with them in the team aswell the downward spiral had already started and they left without grooming replacements with a number of new batsmen coming in and not performing.
Misbahs backing of Azhar and Shafiq hasnt worked out backing slow timid players who resemble your own batting isn't the way to go as recent results have shown.

 

[Savak]

I wonder what Shafiq would have done if he was in Azhar's position today. He is another deer in the headlights.

Zilch confidence. Have seen Shafiq throw away his wicket many times with suicidal get out of jail shots in extreme pressure situations.

 

[Amjid Javed]

The most worrying thing apparent in both test and ODI cricket is non of our batsmen seem to be able to pace an inns or play according to pressure situations during games nice 20/30s win you T20s but dont win you Tests/ODIs.

 

[Amjid Javed]

The solution to resolving problem with our none performing seniors seems to be simple

1) Azhar is batting like a snail and like a night watchmen.

Solution: Lets open with him

2) Hafeez being useless as an opener

Solution: bat him at number 5/6 as spinning all rounder - As all off a sudden he will become viv richards after 15 years because hes batting number 5

3) Asad Chocking all the time

solution: Lets put him at number 4/5 as changing his position will make him a world beater

4) Sarfraz Non preforming captain

Solution: We cant dropped him as its not allowed to try other players out as they arent as good

Its pathetic thinking from some fans, no wonder the teams a mess when selectors, captain, coach persist with playerss imply not good enough but lets give them a new role in team as it will make them world class all of a sudden

 

[aukhan]

The solution to resolving problem with our none performing seniors seems to be simple

1) Azhar is batting like a snail and like a night watchmen.

Solution: Lets open with him

2) Hafeez being useless as an opener

Solution: bat him at number 5/6 as spinning all rounder - As all off a sudden he will become viv richards after 15 years because hes batting number 5

3) Asad Chocking all the time

solution: Lets put him at number 4/5 as changing his position will make him a world beater

4) Sarfraz Non preforming captain

Solution: We cant dropped him as its not allowed to try other players out as they arent as good

Its pathetic thinking from some fans, no wonder the teams a mess when selectors, captain, coach persist with playerss imply not good enough but lets give them a new role in team as it will make them world class all of a sudden

Pakistan's worst problem over the years has been die hard fan groups. They will justify non performances of their favorites by pointing at the lack of replacements in domestic. There is always an excuse, the newest i just read on this forum by yogi sarfraz's bakhts was to stop playing in UAE, the venue is responsible for our defeats in last 2 years.

 

[Saj]

There were collapses and losses with them in the team aswell .

Yes there were, but by and large you could rely on one or both of them to lead the batting unit, whilst others hid behind them.

Nowadays there are no buffers or hiding places for these players.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

I think Pakistan’s lack of test cricket is to blame for azhar and Asads dip in form. On the other hand Barbar who plays in all formats keeps on improving.

Its babar not barbar.