Pakistan's spin bowling depth: Best in the world?

[RyanRyan10]

Yasir Shah
Nauman Ali
Zafar Gohar
Shadab Khan
Imad Wasim
Mohammad Nawaz
Usman Qadir
Zahid Mahmood
Sajid Khan

Pakistan is blessed with so many quality spiners.

Tests, Odis or T20Is, Pakistan has option for all the formats. Most of them can contribute with bat as well and some of them are classified as allrounders.

 

[Mamoon]

Depth?

We just have numbers. No real quality.

Yasir is the only class spinner in the country, and he is a Test specialist.

All our Limited Overs spinners are below average. I am sure you can find dozens better quality spinners in Indian domestic cricket.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Depth?

We just have numbers. No real quality.

Yasir is the only class spinner in the country, and he is a Test specialist.

All our Limited Overs spinners are below average. I am sure you can find dozens better quality spinners in Indian domestic cricket.

Which country do you think has better depth for all formats?

 

[Mamoon]

Which country do you think has better depth for all formats?

India, of course.

 

[shujaatraza]

India, of course.

Name 10 spinners from India and then we can compare how far are Pakistan’s spinners from their Indian counterparts

 

[amit]

Depth?

We just have numbers. No real quality.

Yasir is the only class spinner in the country, and he is a Test specialist.

All our Limited Overs spinners are below average. I am sure you can find dozens better quality spinners in Indian domestic cricket.

What about Afghanistan. I think they might have 2nd best depth after India among spinners

1. Rashid Khan
2. Mujeeb Zadran
3. Mohammad Nabi
4. Amir Hamza
5. Qais Ahmed
6. Noor Ahmad Lakanwal
7. Sharafuddin Ashraf

 

[Bigboii]

Name 10 spinners from India and then we can compare how far are Pakistan’s spinners from their Indian counterparts

Bhai nah kar

 

[Hyperion66]

Name 10 spinners from India and then we can compare how far are Pakistan’s spinners from their Indian counterparts

Ashwin Naam hi kaafi hai
Jadeja: Same as above
Sundar: One of our brightest future prospects. His bats like a 30 years old veteran, bowling is promising but not completely developed yet but has got massive potential nonetheless.
Axar: A very decent SLA. Just took a fivefor in his first test and troubled Root the most, got him out in both innings.
Kuldeep: Has hit a rough patch lately, has got match winning performances in SENA countries under his belt. One of the most promising spinners we have.
Chahal: A valuable part of our LOI team.
Pervez Rasool: A well respected domestic veteran with 400+ wks
Dharmendra Jadeja: Another domestic veteran with 15 five wk houls
Jalaj Saxena: One of the most consistent domestic performer ever with 21 5wk haul.
Jayant Yadav: After a very promising allround start to his career he was never picked again, speaks volume of the intensity of the competition that a spinner has to go through to be a team regular.
Sreyash Gopal: A very good spin bowling allrounder averaging 28 with the ball and 34 with bat in FC.
Krishnappa Goutam: Averages 24 in FC with 12 5 wk hauls in 42 matches. A very handy bat too down the order.

I am missing quite a few I am sure as I do not follow domestics much these days, someone with better knowledge perhaps could add more.

 

[Hyperion66]

Name 10 spinners from India and then we can compare how far are Pakistan’s spinners from their Indian counterparts

BTW, sorry, I know that question was for Mamoon, couldn't help butting in

 

[RyanRyan10]

Ashwin Naam hi kaafi hai
Jadeja: Same as above
Sundar: One of our brightest future prospects. His bats like a 30 years old veteran, bowling is promising but not completely developed yet but has got massive potential nonetheless.
Axar: A very decent SLA. Just took a fivefor in his first test and troubled Root the most, got him out in both innings.
Kuldeep: Has hit a rough patch lately, has got match winning performances in SENA countries under his belt. One of the most promising spinners we have.
Chahal: A valuable part of our LOI team.
Pervez Rasool: A well respected domestic veteran with 400+ wks
Dharmendra Jadeja: Another domestic veteran with 15 five wk houls
Jalaj Saxena: One of the most consistent domestic performer ever with 21 5wk haul.
Jayant Yadav: After a very promising allround start to his career he was never picked again, speaks volume of the intensity of the competition that a spinner has to go through to be a team regular.
Sreyash Gopal: A very good spin bowling allrounder averaging 28 with the ball and 34 with bat in FC.
Krishnappa Goutam: Averages 24 in FC with 12 5 wk hauls in 42 matches. A very handy bat too down the order.

I am missing quite a few I am sure as I do not follow domestics much these days, someone with better knowledge perhaps could add more.

Saurabh Kumar: he is the net bowler for this series. 192 wickets @23 with 16 5fers in 44 FC matches. Decent bat too.

Shahbaz Nadeem: 400+ FC wickets @29. Has played 2 tests.

Mayank Markande: averages 23 in 17 FC matches


For limited formats

Rahul Chahar
Ravi Bishnoi
R Sai Kishore
M Ashwin
Varun Chakravarthy
Rahul Tewatia (allrounder)

 

[moghul]

I don't appreciate this kind of ridiculous thread , not even close to reality , whom we are kidding to .

 

[Hyperion66]

Saurabh Kumar: he is the net bowler for this series. 192 wickets @23 with 16 5fers in 44 FC matches. Decent bat too.

Shahbaz Nadeem: 400+ FC wickets @29. Has played 2 tests.

Mayank Markande: averages 23 in 17 FC matches


For limited formats

Rahul Chahar
Ravi Bishnoi
R Sai Kishore
M Ashwin
Varun Chakravarthy
Rahul Tewatia (allrounder)

Thanks man, appreciate the input. I knew about all of them but was too lazy to think deep and hard while I typed

 

[Shoaibbtt]

I reckon best is India followed by Afghanistan or maybe you can even argue Afghanistan being the best.

 

[shamaan]

Afganistan proberly have the best

 

[Square Drive]

Not sure about best in the world, but our depth has improved significantly in recent times with Zafar, Nauman, Sajid, Nawaz, Qadir and now Zahid coming into the mix over the past few months across formats.

Tests:

Yasir
Nauman
Sajid
Nawaz

LOIs:

Shadab
Imad
Nawaz
Zafar
Qadir
Zahid

Looking pretty good.

 

[Bewal Express]

Ashwin Naam hi kaafi hai
Jadeja: Same as above
Sundar: One of our brightest future prospects. His bats like a 30 years old veteran, bowling is promising but not completely developed yet but has got massive potential nonetheless.
Axar: A very decent SLA. Just took a fivefor in his first test and troubled Root the most, got him out in both innings.
Kuldeep: Has hit a rough patch lately, has got match winning performances in SENA countries under his belt. One of the most promising spinners we have.
Chahal: A valuable part of our LOI team.
Pervez Rasool: A well respected domestic veteran with 400+ wks
Dharmendra Jadeja: Another domestic veteran with 15 five wk houls
Jalaj Saxena: One of the most consistent domestic performer ever with 21 5wk haul.
Jayant Yadav: After a very promising allround start to his career he was never picked again, speaks volume of the intensity of the competition that a spinner has to go through to be a team regular.
Sreyash Gopal: A very good spin bowling allrounder averaging 28 with the ball and 34 with bat in FC.
Krishnappa Goutam: Averages 24 in FC with 12 5 wk hauls in 42 matches. A very handy bat too down the order.

I am missing quite a few I am sure as I do not follow domestics much these days, someone with better knowledge perhaps could add more.

Soon Kuldeep Yadav will be out of the test picture. From a guy that looked set for greatness, he has gone backwards to a point where he offers little.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Ashwin Naam hi kaafi hai
Jadeja: Same as above
Sundar: One of our brightest future prospects. His bats like a 30 years old veteran, bowling is promising but not completely developed yet but has got massive potential nonetheless.
Axar: A very decent SLA. Just took a fivefor in his first test and troubled Root the most, got him out in both innings.
Kuldeep: Has hit a rough patch lately, has got match winning performances in SENA countries under his belt. One of the most promising spinners we have.
Chahal: A valuable part of our LOI team.
Pervez Rasool: A well respected domestic veteran with 400+ wks
Dharmendra Jadeja: Another domestic veteran with 15 five wk houls
Jalaj Saxena: One of the most consistent domestic performer ever with 21 5wk haul.
Jayant Yadav: After a very promising allround start to his career he was never picked again, speaks volume of the intensity of the competition that a spinner has to go through to be a team regular.
Sreyash Gopal: A very good spin bowling allrounder averaging 28 with the ball and 34 with bat in FC.
Krishnappa Goutam: Averages 24 in FC with 12 5 wk hauls in 42 matches. A very handy bat too down the order.

I am missing quite a few I am sure as I do not follow domestics much these days, someone with better knowledge perhaps could add more.

I haven’t seen some of the domestic guys but I’m sure they’re all high quality. Can you list the guys in order of quality with the ball alone?

 

[DeadBall]

Ashwin Naam hi kaafi hai
Jadeja: Same as above
Sundar: One of our brightest future prospects. His bats like a 30 years old veteran, bowling is promising but not completely developed yet but has got massive potential nonetheless.
Axar: A very decent SLA. Just took a fivefor in his first test and troubled Root the most, got him out in both innings.
Kuldeep: Has hit a rough patch lately, has got match winning performances in SENA countries under his belt. One of the most promising spinners we have.
Chahal: A valuable part of our LOI team.
Pervez Rasool: A well respected domestic veteran with 400+ wks
Dharmendra Jadeja: Another domestic veteran with 15 five wk houls
Jalaj Saxena: One of the most consistent domestic performer ever with 21 5wk haul.
Jayant Yadav: After a very promising allround start to his career he was never picked again, speaks volume of the intensity of the competition that a spinner has to go through to be a team regular.
Sreyash Gopal: A very good spin bowling allrounder averaging 28 with the ball and 34 with bat in FC.
Krishnappa Goutam: Averages 24 in FC with 12 5 wk hauls in 42 matches. A very handy bat too down the order.

I am missing quite a few I am sure as I do not follow domestics much these days, someone with better knowledge perhaps could add more.

Ok, now name 28 more.

 

[hitthestump]

All that depth yet our best one gets humiliated every time he steps a foot out of Asia.

I'll take one Ashwin over 100 spinners of Yasir's ability.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

All that depth yet our best one gets humiliated every time he steps a foot out of Asia.

I'll take one Ashwin over 100 spinners of Yasir's ability.

Name a single legspinner other than Warne who did well outside of Asia. Then name some more.

Yasir is one of the best legspinners in SENA of all time. The few that were better than him were Mushtaq Ahmed and Richie Benaud. That's how bad leggies are in SENA.

If you have a problem with Yasir's stats, blame the management for playing him. Or, if you think that there wasn't anyone else to play instead of Yasir (a finger spinner), then blame the system and the PCB.

Yasir, himself, is a champion who does the best he can for the team when and where he can. He doesn't get nearly as much respect as the fastest person to 200 Test wickets might deserve.

 

[DeadBall]

Name a single legspinner other than Warne who did well outside of Asia. Then name some more.


If you have a problem with Yasir's stats, blame the management for overplaying him. Or, if you think that there wasn't anyone else to play instead of Yasir (a finger spinner), then blame the system and the PCB.

Fixed.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

We don't have any leg spinner of Yasir's class in Test matches. Lot of good finger spinners.
High hopes from Kuldeep to learn quickly and gain some confidence.

 

[Ahson8]

Afghanistan's spinners are better than ours.

 

[Justcrazy]

Ashwin Naam hi kaafi hai
Jadeja: Same as above
Sundar: One of our brightest future prospects. His bats like a 30 years old veteran, bowling is promising but not completely developed yet but has got massive potential nonetheless.
Axar: A very decent SLA. Just took a fivefor in his first test and troubled Root the most, got him out in both innings.
Kuldeep: Has hit a rough patch lately, has got match winning performances in SENA countries under his belt. One of the most promising spinners we have.
Chahal: A valuable part of our LOI team.
Pervez Rasool: A well respected domestic veteran with 400+ wks
Dharmendra Jadeja: Another domestic veteran with 15 five wk houls
Jalaj Saxena: One of the most consistent domestic performer ever with 21 5wk haul.
Jayant Yadav: After a very promising allround start to his career he was never picked again, speaks volume of the intensity of the competition that a spinner has to go through to be a team regular.
Sreyash Gopal: A very good spin bowling allrounder averaging 28 with the ball and 34 with bat in FC.
Krishnappa Goutam: Averages 24 in FC with 12 5 wk hauls in 42 matches. A very handy bat too down the order.

I am missing quite a few I am sure as I do not follow domestics much these days, someone with better knowledge perhaps could add more.

These are just random names, I do not think most will ever play for India.

 

[Justcrazy]

Its not number of spinners you have its about the quality of spinners you have. I would like Pakistan to have 3 quality test spin bowlers.

 

[Hyperion66]

Ok, now name 28 more.

Kyu? Naam ka achaar daloge kya?

 

[Hyperion66]

These are just random names, I do not think most will ever play for India.

6 of them are already playing for India. Jayant has played for India. Gopal and Gowtham are genuine contenders for a LOI slot. The compitition is just insane, being good is simply not enough, likes of Jayant Yadav would be considered ATG material in many countries while here he never got picked again even after a very impressive debut series against England.

 

[Hyperion66]

These are just random names, I do not think most will ever play for India.

None of them are random names. 2 of them are ATGs, one is a massive future prospect, 6 of them are team regulars/semi regulars, rest are domestic veterans and exciting youngsters.

 

[Hyperion66]

I haven’t seen some of the domestic guys but I’m sure they’re all high quality. Can you list the guys in order of quality with the ball alone?

I am afraid I will not be able to do an honest job at that. I am sure we both have seen enough of the team regulars, however for the rest I have seen enough to have an idea of their abilities but not enough to rank them or list them by quality and potential. I have not been following our domestics closely for some time and do not watch IPL much either, hence my limited knowledge regarding the subject matter.

 

[saeed5646]

likes of Jayant Yadav would be considered ATG material in many countries while here he never got picked again even after a very impressive debut series against England.

By that logic many will also considered usman shinwari atg material (his out standing record in odis)especially when few countries are struggling for potent left arm seamer

 

[Hyperion66]

By that logic many will also considered usman shinwari atg material (his out standing record in odis)especially when few countries are struggling for potent left arm seamer

Which top team did Shinwari perform against? I genuinely wanna know, I only saw him in Asia cup where he was being thrashed all over the park. No judging though.

 

[saeed5646]

Which top team did Shinwari perform against? I genuinely wanna know, I only saw him in Asia cup where he was being thrashed all over the park. No judging though.

Did jayant yadav took fifer outside india ?even the likes of rehman and mehdi hasan have bamboozled england in uae and bd .

Injuries have ruined his performances struggling to get back to best

 

[Hyperion66]

Did jayant yadav took fifer outside india ?even the likes of rehman and mehdi hasan have bamboozled england in uae and bd .

Injuries have ruined his performances struggling to get back to best

He never played outside of India or on a rank turner for that matter. bowled decently where he had tp compete against the likes of Ash and Jaddu for wickets and averaged 46 with the bat in the 4 test matches that he played. He would have gotten a second chance in most other countries based on his performance in debut series. It is one thing to be troubled by injuries but you are particularly unlucky when your main competitors for a team slot are a couple of ATGs.

I did not make any comments on Shinwari, I only saw him bowling a few overs, which were not impressive at all but not enough to form an opinion either.

 

[UzmanBeast]

Our spin department has more numbers now than previous years, but numbers aren't a basis for talking about quality.

A team could have 3 world-class spinners only, and their spin attack would still be better than ours.

I'll do a quick analysis on each of the spinners right now:

Yasir Shah - great spinner, good in Asia, questionable performances overseas. Batting has improved considerably.

Nauman Ali - looked good in patches, basically a secondary spinner brought to increase pressure on Yasir to perform.

Zafar Gohar - good prospect for ODI and T20I, needs more exposure in PSL. Can turn the ball, also bats decently.

Shadab Khan - was a genuinely great prospect before bowling form took a hit, doesn't turn the ball much but has some variations and bats decently.

Imad Wasim - a darter, very economical but does not spin the ball at all. Doesn't have too many variations, and isn't really a wicket-taking option. Good batting though.

Mohammad Nawaz - similar to Imad but flights the ball, can also spin the ball. Offers more variety than Imad on the basis of being able to extract spin from the pitch. A decent batsman, not as good as Imad in this regard.

Usman Qadir - decent legspinner, hasn't really handled pressure well (when he was being tonked, he had no answer to bring his ER down, and stop leaking runs). Flights the ball, can spin it both ways convincingly.

Zahid Mahmood - decent legspinner, can turn the ball both ways, bowls it flatter and targets the stumps on most occasions. Needs a larger sample size to be judged.

Sajid Khan - haven't seen much of him but has good FC stats, more valuable to play him as opposed to Nauman in my opinion (spins it the other way).

So, we don't really have a world class spinner apart from Yasir, and looking at the T20 World Cup, that's a bit concerning.

We all know that one spinner's spot is guaranteed, and that's Shadab Khan being the vice captain of the team.

Is he a wicket-taker? Sometimes, he either gets a few wickets in a game or gets tonked around.

So, we'd need one spinner to accompany him who's economical but can take wickets as well. There's only two options here which are Imad and Nawaz. Imad offers more with the bat and is economical in the powerplay, so I think he'll get that role.

The third spinner would be a wicket-taker, so that leaves Zahid, Usman, and Zafar. Those three will be competing for the slot, and the one who takes the most wickets during the PSL will likely get the opportunity.

We have an overall decent spin department for all formats, definitely needs some youngsters to step up and start performing.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I am afraid I will not be able to do an honest job at that. I am sure we both have seen enough of the team regulars, however for the rest I have seen enough to have an idea of their abilities but not enough to rank them or list them by quality and potential. I have not been following our domestics closely for some time and do not watch IPL much either, hence my limited knowledge regarding the subject matter.

Mostly just international cricket for you? I’m guessing not a big T20 fan

 

[Mr Crickekter]

Yasir Shah
Nauman Ali
Zafar Gohar
Shadab Khan
Imad Wasim
Mohammad Nawaz
Usman Qadir
Zahid Mahmood
Sajid Khan

Pakistan is blessed with so many quality spiners.

Tests, Odis or T20Is, Pakistan has option for all the formats. Most of them can contribute with bat as well and some of them are classified as allrounders.

Dear its quantity not quality...
It would have been better if we have just two spinners of Ashwin, Jadeja, Kuldeep type.. And not these bits and pieces spinners.

 

[Hyperion66]

Mostly just international cricket for you? I’m guessing not a big T20 fan

Right, but I do watch t20s if I don't have anything else to do.

 

[PakPremi]

Afghanistan's spinners are better than ours.

Let them win test matches against quality teams even at home first.

 

[Ahson8]

Let them win test matches against quality teams even at home first.

Not really, their spinners are already good enough. Someone like Qais barely gets games due to Rashid and Mujeeb being there, but he would be a shoo-in in the XI in most teams of the world

 

[PakPremi]

Its not number of spinners you have its about the quality of spinners you have. I would like Pakistan to have 3 quality test spin bowlers.

Problem with Pakistan is we do not play many spinners, so we do not know their quality and do not provide them confidence and experience. Lucky Nauman got selected due to absence of quality pace bowlers atm. He performed well enough for his first series, even if pitches were not as helpful as the ones Indian bowlers get at home. I am sure Sajid would have been good as well had he been tried as well but sue to balance of team there was no room for him. In T20s we tried Usman and Zahid and both been quality so far.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Having depth is irrelevant in all honesty. You only need two good spinners and two good backups.

Pakistan has one ok spinner and a lot of average backup bowlers.

 

[PakPremi]

How do you know they are average without seeing them in international matches on helpful wickets?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

How do you know they are average without seeing them in international matches on helpful wickets?

Its clear to the naked eye that they are darters and not proper spin bowlers. Our proper spin bowler gets knocked all over the ground away from home whereas Indias are controlling and threatening. There is no harm calling a spade a spade. India is comfortably better in the spin bowling department. In fact Ashwin is probably better than any spinner produced in Pakistans history and Jadeja isnt far behind.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

A team needs at most 3 quality spinners and those three should be great.
You have named 3500 and except Yasir none of them is good.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

India has more depth in the spin department, easily. The cricketing culture and pitches in India have always been encouraging for spinners and I don't see that ending anytime soon.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

A team needs at most 3 quality spinners and those three should be great.
You have named 3500 and except Yasir none of them is good.

Where are you getting the number 3? Most Test teams need just 1 primary spinner (Yasir) and a quality support spinner (Nauman). We have a quality backup option as well in Sajid Khan if you want to round it out as the number 3.

If you mean across all formats, Shadab averages 22.6 in T20I and 29.7 in ODIs. The first is fantastic and the second is very very good. People have begun to doubt his ability because he has been in the midst of injuries for the last year but he is a very potent bowler.

What we are really looking for is a quality bowler to accompany Shadab in limited overs, and we are indeed missing that. The spinner role is wide open for the 2023 WC. However, Zahid Mehmood is quality and Usman Qadir is improving rapidly. Umer Khan has take. The wicket of AB de Villiers and other top class batsmen, while we have mystery spinners like Abrar Ahmed coming through the ranks. Zafar Gohar is a very valuable white ball cricketer. Ahmed Safi Abdullah, a 22 year old, was the 5th best bowler in first class this year. I haven’t mentioned Mohammad Nawaz and Imad Wasim.

We have a lot of good spin bowling depth. I don’t know much about India’s bench strength and I’m sure it’s very good in the spin department. But make no mistake, all of these guys are high quality spinners.

If your benchmark is Yasir Shah, the fastest spinner to 200 wickets and the best leggie of all time in SENA after Warne, Mushtaq Ahmed, and Benaud, despite being overused and mismanaged by the captain and coach, then yes, no other Pakistani is quality, you’re right, and trust me other than Ashwin and Jadeja, none of the Indian backups are of Yasir’s quality either.

 

[PakPremi]

Its clear to the naked eye that they are darters and not proper spin bowlers. Our proper spin bowler gets knocked all over the ground away from home whereas Indias are controlling and threatening. There is no harm calling a spade a spade. India is comfortably better in the spin bowling department. In fact Ashwin is probably better than any spinner produced in Pakistans history and Jadeja isnt far behind.

Was not referring to darters like Imad and even he does not get carted around anywhere. I was referring to untried spinners like Sajid, Zahid, Zafar(I know he played one test but that was wrong pitch to debut). Nauman has shown enough control to be not carted around. Shadab has been OK away from home as well. Only Yasir you can say gets carted around in Sena, buthardly any Leg spinners is good there. Yes Ashwin and Jadeja are good but Pakistani spinners are also good even if they are not in their class or have their experience, or get to play on helpful pitches as the Indian spinners get to.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Pakistan has a lot of quality LOI spinners and tyat has been the case for years now. Not sure about tests. I believe Sajid khan is but unsure about the rest . Zafar had insane potential imo and during the PSL a couple of seasons ago, he was turning the ball more than any other spinner I saw but quite recently he didnt look as impressive when I saw him.

 

[Hasan123]

Until this South Africa series, Pakistan were consistently sticking with Imad and Shadab in LO, and Yasir in tests. The spinners selected for this series were playing against a lot of poor players of spin. We will need to see how they do in more series before heralding spin depth.

I would say India have the best spin depth in the world right now.

 

[Justcrazy]

Problem with Pakistan is we do not play many spinners, so we do not know their quality and do not provide them confidence and experience. Lucky Nauman got selected due to absence of quality pace bowlers atm. He performed well enough for his first series, even if pitches were not as helpful as the ones Indian bowlers get at home. I am sure Sajid would have been good as well had he been tried as well but sue to balance of team there was no room for him. In T20s we tried Usman and Zahid and both been quality so far.

Brother we can make 100 excuse, but the fact is that we judge by what is in front of us. No one is stopping PCB from making turning pitches . They are free to make whatever surface they want .

 

[Justcrazy]

None of them are random names. 2 of them are ATGs, one is a massive future prospect, 6 of them are team regulars/semi regulars, rest are domestic veterans and exciting youngsters.

I do not think we will see all of them playing for India regularly. When India play outside they will go with only one spinner at most .

 

[Hyperion66]

I do not think we will see all of them playing for India regularly. When India play outside they will go with only one spinner at most .

Of course, how can you possibly see all of them playing regularly? But they definitely have solid credentials, all of them, not just the team regulars. That is what I meant.

 

[PakPremi]

Brother we can make 100 excuse, but the fact is that we judge by what is in front of us. No one is stopping PCB from making turning pitches . They are free to make whatever surface they want .

What excuse did you not see the Pak vs SA series the pitches were hardly rank turners or dust bowl unlike the second test match England played in India.
Of course Pak can make turning pitches too why they do not I do not know but the fact is we do not value Pakistani domestic spinners and do not utilise them as much as they should. Case in point when Mickey Arthur played no spinners in UAE against SriLanka. In limited over cricket we only play spin all rounders like Imad, Shadab, and pace bowlers. It is only due to their unavailability we went for likes of Usman and Zahid. Then they go and prove their quality.

 

[RyanRyan10]

What excuse did you not see the Pak vs SA series the pitches were hardly rank turners or dust bowl unlike the second test match England played in India.
Of course Pak can make turning pitches too why they do not I do not know but the fact is we do not value Pakistani domestic spinners and do not utilise them as much as they should. Case in point when Mickey Arthur played no spinners in UAE against SriLanka. In limited over cricket we only play spin all rounders like Imad, Shadab, and pace bowlers. It is only due to their unavailability we went for likes of Usman and Zahid. Then they go and prove their quality.[/QUOTE]

That's a very good point

Pakistan management needs to show faith in their domestic performers.

 

[MesonK]

Good thing about Pakistani test attacks is that they always have a well established leg spinner in the side.

Qadir, Mushi, Kaneria, Yasir ... may be Shadab will take over from Yasir.

 

[Napa]

Name a single legspinner other than Warne who did well outside of Asia. Then name some more.

Yasir is one of the best legspinners in SENA of all time. The few that were better than him were Mushtaq Ahmed and Richie Benaud. That's how bad leggies are in SENA.

A bit before your time I suppose, but Chandra took 92 wickets in SENA + WI at an average of 31.3 compared to Yasir's 71 wickets at 43.4. Mushtaq did quite well with 93 wickets at 29.8 (which strangely enough was lower than his overall average of 33).

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

Benaud had 177 wickets at 30.1.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...art;template=results;type=bowling;view=series

 

[Devadwal]

Pakistan need quality pacers bcz apart from Shaheen they don't have any other world class pacers .they have enough spinners but where are fast bowlers?
Any Pakistan fans name upcoming talented Pacers who performed well in domestic ( pls no Naseem ,he was pathetic in NZ & AUS)

 

[Thunderbolt14]

A bit before your time I suppose, but Chandra took 92 wickets in SENA + WI at an average of 31.3 compared to Yasir's 71 wickets at 43.4. Mushtaq did quite well with 93 wickets at 29.8 (which strangely enough was lower than his overall average of 33).

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling

Benaud had 177 wickets at 30.1.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...art;template=results;type=bowling;view=series

But that’s precisely what i mean. Add Chandra as well and you still only have a handful of leggies who have ever succeeded in SENA. It’s not an easy job and even these guys averaged 30-35 not 25. Point being Yasir gets way too much criticism. And Chandra (60s-70s), Benaud (50s) bowled in a relatively weaker era of batsmanship.

Don’t you think given the absolutely horrible record for leggies after that, except Mushy, Qadir, Warne, means that it’s the management’s fault for bowling Yasir 100 overs per match regularly? Yasir to his credit has still actually won matches in England and Windies.

 

[Buffet]

But that’s precisely what i mean. Add Chandra as well and you still only have a handful of leggies who have ever succeeded in SENA. It’s not an easy job and even these guys averaged 30-35 not 25. Point being Yasir gets way too much criticism. And Chandra (60s-70s), Benaud (50s) bowled in a relatively weaker era of batsmanship.

Don’t you think given the absolutely horrible record for leggies after that, except Mushy, Qadir, Warne, means that it’s the management’s fault for bowling Yasir 100 overs per match regularly? Yasir to his credit has still actually won matches in England and Windies.

Qadir averages near 50 when playing outside Pakistan. He was not an exception when discussing leg spinner's record outside Asia. He has a horrible record even in India and SL.

 

[Napa]

But that’s precisely what i mean. Add Chandra as well and you still only have a handful of leggies who have ever succeeded in SENA. It’s not an easy job and even these guys averaged 30-35 not 25. Point being Yasir gets way too much criticism. And Chandra (60s-70s), Benaud (50s) bowled in a relatively weaker era of batsmanship.

Don’t you think given the absolutely horrible record for leggies after that, except Mushy, Qadir, Warne, means that it’s the management’s fault for bowling Yasir 100 overs per match regularly? Yasir to his credit has still actually won matches in England and Windies.

Agreed. Leggies with good records in SENA are very few, and we should take that into account when judging Yasir in addition to the fact that Yasir was overbowled due to the absence of options.

 

[PakPremi]

Yasir not only got overboqled but over selected due to lacking of world class pace bowlers to win matches in sena, he has been played even when in bad form or carrying slight injury. This is because Pakistan had not groomed any other spinner for tests.

 

[b.lesner]

Northern, South Punjab and Balochistan are without wrist spinners while Usama mir and Shahzaib Ahmed are sitting at home then we complain why aren't good spinners coming through there is some problem in Domestic coaches they tend to not pick good Legspinners

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="in" dir="ltr">Best match figures by a Pakistani bowler in Tests:<br><br>14-116 Imran Khan<br>14-184 Yasir Shah<br>13-101 Abdul Qadir<br>13-114 Fazal Mahmood<br>13-135 Waqar Younis<br>12-94 Fazal Mahmood<br>12-94 Danish Kaneria<br>12-99 Fazal Mahmood<br>12-100 Fazal Mahmood<br>12-128 Sajid Khan<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1468648504948146181?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[transparent opacity]

Quantity wise; maybe, but quality wise; not even close. Qualitatively, India has the best spin bowling depth.

 

[MenInG]

“Our spin department is boosted with the return of Yasir Shah, who proved himself as a match-winner in Sri Lanka on our last tour and Sajid Khan has made the way for him. The spin department also includes two spin all-rounders in Mohammad Nawaz and Salman Ali Agha and left-arm orthodox Nauman Ali."

Mohammad Wasim speaking after announcing Pakistan squad for the tour of Sri Lanka to play 2 Tests

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan's main bowling strength is their pace department. Shaheen, Rauf, Dahani etc. World class pace attack.

But, spin department is not very good currently. Definitely not world class.

 

[TheSultan]

Who makes this stuff up? We probably are second to England for worst spin bowling resources.

I actually hate our spinners. Most annoying “spin” bowlers ever.

Only shadab is ok in LOIs

 

[Muhammad Saad]

Upcoming spinners?

I think we are definitely need atleast 3 of them , I can think of Faisal Akram only , do you guys know any quality spinners who are accurate and can turn it big as well in our domestic circuit?

 

[Omer2002]

Faisal Akram definately needs to be focused on he is the future. There is no more which come to mind.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Ahmed Safi Abdullah
Abrar Ahmed
Faisal Akram

And if we are being honest Ahmed Safi Abdullah is the only one right who looks like he could play for Pakistan in the near future.

Abrar Ahmed has shown flashes of form in PSL and has some performances of note in QeA but nothing impressive. Faisal Akram is extremely raw and underdeveloped. Probably needs some proper coaching at NCA (which he is getting these days) before he can start playing regular cricket.

What's most disappointing though is that Pakistan has no young spinner of the caliber of India's Ravi Bishnoi, who is good enough to play for India this early in his career. Serous reflection is needed regarding Pakistan's lack of spin bowling stocks.

 

[Titan24]

I think we are definitely need atleast 3 of them , I can think of Faisal Akram only , do you guys know any quality spinners who are accurate and can turn it big as well in our domestic circuit?

Current lot is mostly mediocre barring the bit of luxury which spin bowling all rounders like Nawaz and co are providing.

So upcoming ones as you wanted to discuss (Just need one or two of them to become world class);

Mehran Mumtaz from last U19 batch is tall and is accurate. Can bat a bit as well however, has tendency to bowl quickly in LOIs. Took 7 wickets in his FC debut last season. Currently selected for KPL by Jammu Janbaaz as the local Kashmiri player.

Faisal Akram is obviously there, left arm chinamen with quite a few variations. Is still

Mubasir Khan One of the best young spin bowling all rounder. An off spinner which is a rare breed in Pak cricket currently. Averages 25 with the ball and 38 with the bat currently in FC cricket with 2 100s and 2 5fers in his name.

Ahmed Safi Abdullah 24 years old SLA, averages 25 with over 100 wickets in FC cricket. Last season was decent as well. He has some batting potential too but, numbers dont prove that as of now.

Aliyaan Mehmood Just 17 years old off spinner, rated highly in Sindh cricket. Played one list A match and looked good.

Abrar Ahmed Leggy with bit of mystery around him, averages 30 in FC cricket and 25 in list A cricket.

Arish Ali Khan 21 years old SLA who has been doing well for Sindh in 2nd xi cricket however, yet to get regular opportunities with the main team

Ali Asfand 17 years old SLA. Has already represented CP in Pakistan cup, played 4 matches while maintaining miserly economy of 4.29 in a reasonably high scoring tournament. Was 2nd highest wicket taker in the National U19 one day cup 2022 as well.

Arham Nawab 18 years old mystery off spinner, I he has a carrom ball as well as a deceptive leggy to go with his convention off breaks. Economy in National U19 was below 3 and was the third highest wicket taker.

There might be a few that I have missed but, its to give a general sense.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

problem is we wont give them a chance and then wont make turning wickets..

India and Bangladesh make "Dubai Dune" sand wichkets with puff of dust coming from ball 1

spinners lack confidence and they dont gain that confidence

need to get that sorted out

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

problem is we wont give them a chance and then wont make turning wickets..

India and Bangladesh make "Dubai Dune" sand wichkets with puff of dust coming from ball 1

spinners lack confidence and they dont gain that confidence

need to get that sorted out

Playing to our strengths is much more important. I think a balance can be found where you have pitches that offer something for the seamers upfront and then later in the innings, reverse-swing comes into play. While during the later days of the match the spinners take control. However, for that to actually happen PRaja needs to let the curators actually do their job instead of interfering in something he doesn't understand in any way whatsoever.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Pakistan has not been able to churn out anyone good enough since Ajmal in 2012 and it is just a sign that not many young kids in the country are looking at spin bowling to actually take it up.

Where as in countries like India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh you'll find tons of them turning up in the maidaans playing around and with some good varieties at such young ages without being trained at all.

Pakistan after Mushtaq Ahmed and Saqlain Mushtaq and then Saeed Ajmal have struggled in the last 20-30 years with spinners in the Test format.

 

[shamaan]

Mubasir Khan he has good stats was top 5 wicket takers and averages 30+ with the bat in qaid e azam

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Not a single name that has come through PSL has done anything of note in FC.

Ibtisam, Usama Mir, Asghar, Hassaan etc. Even Shadab hasn't played much FC cricket.

Administrators and players need to respect FC and club cricket cricket to generate spinners.

Our base for LOIs is still pretty much covered at the moment with Shadab (after regaining form) and Nawaz coming of age alongside Imad and Khushdil(part time)

Spinners for tests usually need to bowl big spells with unerring accuracy and pick lots of wickets something totally different from spinners for LOIs.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Yasir Shah
Nauman Ali
Zafar Gohar
Shadab Khan
Imad Wasim
Mohammad Nawaz
Usman Qadir
Zahid Mahmood
Sajid Khan

Pakistan is blessed with so many quality spiners.

Tests, Odis or T20Is, Pakistan has option for all the formats. Most of them can contribute with bat as well and some of them are classified as allrounders.

You are being sarcastic, I get it. This maybe the weakest spin line up in Pakistan's history.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

Playing to our strengths is much more important. I think a balance can be found where you have pitches that offer something for the seamers upfront and then later in the innings, reverse-swing comes into play. While during the later days of the match the spinners take control. However, for that to actually happen PRaja needs to let the curators actually do their job instead of interfering in something he doesn't understand in any way whatsoever.

Problem is most teams have and can play reverse now... but not all can play spin tht well

you are right to play on ur strength but u can also play on opposition weakeness

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Problem is most teams have and can play reverse now... but not all can play spin tht well

you are right to play on ur strength but u can also play on opposition weakeness

I don't agree. I think you can still run through teams with quality reverse-swing bowling. Thing is, not everyone is an especially skilled practitioner of it. For Pakistani bowlers it is essentially required learning and I think the top pacers in the world like Starc, Cummins, Boult, Anderson etc. are capable of bowling lethal spells of reverse-swing too. But I don't think the same applies to every fast-bowler.

Preparing turning wickets is a double edged sword though. Fact is, no team in the world is as good as India at playing spin. Which is why they are the only team that can prepare those kind of wickets and still win. Even Sri Lanka, who are good players of spin have lost matches and series to teams like England, Australia, New Zealand eventhough they prepared turning tracks.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Problem is most teams have and can play reverse now... but not all can play spin tht well

you are right to play on ur strength but u can also play on opposition weakeness

Infact I don't think I've even seen Boult use reverse-swing that much. Eventhough you would expect a bowler of his caliber to use it frequenty. Which again just goes to show that reverse-swing is an art that not everyone can master.