PCB and the role of analytics?

[offstump]

Modern team coaching and management requires the use of several tools in order to prepare for a tournament, series or match. In many professional
sports leagues, analytics and advanced stats has taken a leading role; breaking down several areas of a game into measurable metrics. I’m curious to know if Pakistan is using analytics to any extent whatsoever? I recall during the Woolmer era that he had 2-3 personnel with him, all on laptops during games. This could have just been an illusion but my gut tells me Woolmer was way ahead of other teams during us time in the use of advanced statistical methods. This seems like low hanging fruit, we could easily staff up an analytics team with local employees. I hope MD Khan has this in the plans for the future.

 

[topspin]

Won't be surprised if PCB uses laptops with Windows 95 installed. Not going to get much analytics software installed out of that

 

[offstump]

This wouldn’t surprise me at all but cricket is already tracking so many stats that you could easily apply advanced analytics if you wanted. It’s very much similar to baseball in this regard where the management ranks are being filled with stats and economics majors who have never stepped foot on a baseball field before.

 

[Syed1]

I was in a gathering the other day and I was the only guy under 30 and the rest were uncles and they were giving this reason or that reason for Pak's poor performance and they ranged from complete hogwash to outdated logic such as kids have stopped playing cricket in Pakistan or they come from uneducated backgrounds or they get nervous when playing in crowds etc etc. Won't be surprised if the babus in the PCB hold similar opinions. I on the other hand tried to emphasize on the uncles the importance of data science and analytics in today's world which might the reason for Pak's failures.


Better teams employ analysts and data scientists to sift through mounds of data and apprise the team of potential strategies. Simple things like what % of the bowls does Bumrah pitch it up, or if he bowls a bouncer in an over how likely he is to bowl a second bouncer so on and so forth. I think India has taken the lead in data science, I took a course on it during my masters last sem and there were dozens of Indians there only outnumbered by white Canadians or Chinese. Pakistanis were few and far inbetween. Therefore, not surprised if the Indian team employs a crew of data scientists to analyze every minute detail of the opposition players and also their own performance to improve further.

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan needs to invest in these kind of things. These are Modern day requirements.

 

[Nasty Naz]

I've been saying Pakistan needs to invest in analytics for a while...

Analytics should be deployed in domestic as well to pick our the best talent that would succeed in international level. I think analytics in cricket is very far behind compared to other sports.

Even if Pakistan used just basic stats, it would go a long way to helping them out. I mean all you had to do was look at Malik career stats in England and not select him. Or look at Hafeez's stats in England and realize he shouldn't play in the top 4. The team played 0 specialist spinners and 4 fast bowlers against Australia and yet played 2 spinners vs India.

There is no logic to the selection criteria whatsoever. They just plug players and hope for the best, something they even did in CT.

 

[Bewal Express]

Overrated rubbish.

 

[offstump]

I was in a gathering the other day and I was the only guy under 30 and the rest were uncles and they were giving this reason or that reason for Pak's poor performance and they ranged from complete hogwash to outdated logic such as kids have stopped playing cricket in Pakistan or they come from uneducated backgrounds or they get nervous when playing in crowds etc etc. Won't be surprised if the babus in the PCB hold similar opinions. I on the other hand tried to emphasize on the uncles the importance of data science and analytics in today's world which might the reason for Pak's failures.

Better teams employ analysts and data scientists to sift through mounds of data and apprise the team of potential strategies. Simple things like what % of the bowls does Bumrah pitch it up, or if he bowls a bouncer in an over how likely he is to bowl a second bouncer so on and so forth. I think India has taken the lead in data science, I took a course on it during my masters last sem and there were dozens of Indians there only outnumbered by white Canadians or Chinese. Pakistanis were few and far inbetween. Therefore, not surprised if the Indian team employs a crew of data scientists to analyze every minute detail of the opposition players and also their own performance to improve further.

This is most likely the exact same mentality of the pcb management team. Someone like Inzi would be hard pressed to understand analytics. The role of a chief selector is outdated in today’s modern game. There is no clear criteria on which he is selecting players.

 

[Sir-fraz]

They dont have an analytics team.. we r far too behind interms of tech used

 

[Bewal Express]

I have been in team meetings and ultimately the Bowling coaches or advisers always went back to talking hit the top of off and the batting was always About being positive but avoiding too many risky shots. You can analyse all night but you have to have the players to implement them.

 

[Savak]

It costs big money to incorporate technology everywhere. We need big academies in every city and things like bowling machines, biomechanic facilities, dieticians, nutritionists, fitness trainers, gyms, pools e.t.c. I bet the BCCI has all these all over India but the PCB does not. Running Cricket is very expensive now compared to the previous era.

 

[Surya Kiran]

No, BCCI has not modernised yet with its facilities, however it has invested in human resources like analysts, even though the number of professionals is limited.

Because of recent years upheaval and reforms, BCCI is not able to push through with its new NCA plan

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Does the Pakistan Team have a Data Analyst?

Not a rhetorical question. If anyone can provide information on the Pakistan think tank and how it analyses data to make selections, would be much appreciated.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Bump on this. Now that the England vs Pakistan 1st Test of 2020 has happened, suddenly many people have realized the need for a specialist in the backroom staff who does the research on opposition batsmen and bowlers - in this case, our failure to target Woakes with the short ball despite his weaknesses, allowing him to make 70 odd before the short ball is employed, reveals that either there is no one analyzing opponents’ videos and track records. If there is someone, then they are utterly incompetent.

A lot of blame in this case is being directed to coaching staff - Misbah and especially Waqar the bowling coach. This blame is rightly directed, however we must establish the fact that these gaps in knowledge (regarding opposition weaknesses and core statistics) can easily be plugged with 1-2 analysts working directly with Waqar Younis and giving instructions to Abbas, Shaheen, Yasir, and Naseem (and any other attack in months or years to come).

These days, all major international teams have access to a very competent selection of data crunchers and video analysts who can very easily give you a game plan tailored to each batsman or each bowler. While the Pakistan team may have other flaws and weaknesses, the absence of even one competent analyst is what lost Pakistan this match.
[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] I was wondering, if at all possible of course, if you could ask in the next press conference regarding whether the PCB has data analysts and how involved they are? It has to be the number one priority for the Pakistan team right now.

 

[Kaka4pope]

Bump on this. Now that the England vs Pakistan 1st Test of 2020 has happened, suddenly many people have realized the need for a specialist in the backroom staff who does the research on opposition batsmen and bowlers - in this case, our failure to target Woakes with the short ball despite his weaknesses, allowing him to make 70 odd before the short ball is employed, reveals that either there is no one analyzing opponents’ videos and track records. If there is someone, then they are utterly incompetent.

A lot of blame in this case is being directed to coaching staff - Misbah and especially Waqar the bowling coach. This blame is rightly directed, however we must establish the fact that these gaps in knowledge (regarding opposition weaknesses and core statistics) can easily be plugged with 1-2 analysts working directly with Waqar Younis and giving instructions to Abbas, Shaheen, Yasir, and Naseem (and any other attack in months or years to come).

These days, all major international teams have access to a very competent selection of data crunchers and video analysts who can very easily give you a game plan tailored to each batsman or each bowler. While the Pakistan team may have other flaws and weaknesses, the absence of even one competent analyst is what lost Pakistan this match.

[MENTION=9]Saj[/MENTION] [MENTION=93712]MenInG[/MENTION] I was wondering, if at all possible of course, if you could ask in the next press conference regarding whether the PCB has data analysts and how involved they are? It has to be the number one priority for the Pakistan team right now.

Agree it is a step that needs to be taken if not already (expense might be a problem - not a rich cricket country) but the Woakes dismissal doesn’t require analytics, just a quick highlights package from the previous series. Waqar/Misbah might be aware - Azhar though? He looks out of his depth

Part of me thinks with 5 down, Pakistan thought they were on their way - and it would just happen...which is even sillier as England are the most capable side at doubling their total or more, even with half the side is gone.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Agree it is a step that needs to be taken if not already (expense might be a problem - not a rich cricket country) but the Woakes dismissal doesn’t require analytics, just a quick highlights package from the previous series. Waqar/Misbah might be aware - Azhar though? He looks out of his depth

Part of me thinks with 5 down, Pakistan thought they were on their way - and it would just happen...which is even sillier as England are the most capable side at doubling their total or more, even with half the side is gone.

I doubt Waqar or Misbah were aware! Or else they would have sent Azhar a message during tea or drinks or prepped him before the match!

 

[Major]

Seriously, what do you guys think pcb is? Some old run down company?

They do have an analyst with them. The whole pcb organization is a professional set up.
The team managment carries analyst with them.

For gods sake, whenever we lose a match, stop acting as if you know better than an already existing organization.

 

[Major]

I think the guys name is talha butt or something and he is incharge of all the analysis.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

If a PSL franchise like Multan Sultans could get Cricviz to do analytics for them, I'm not sure why Pakistan cricket team cannot afford quality cricket analytics teams.

 

[Infinitee786]

Sports analytics is at the forefront of major sports. We hear talks of StatsDNA so often in baseball and how Arsenal FC have utilised this and some others are using their own. They’ve even made a movie “Moneyball” due to the success of a certain baseball team using stats and analytics.

By itself it won’t do much but with the right coaching setup I believe the vast amount of data will allow teams to become incredibly potent.

An example was during the 3rd man analysis nasser Hussain showed the average interception point by Babar Azam for the last 4 years or so. The amount of information is crucial to understanding how individual players play, their preferences, their weaknesses etc.

It’s an absolute MUST to have this in my opinion and, taking into account the trajectory of the sport in regards to its evolution in recent times, I think it would be suicide to neglect this aspect of the game.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Seriously, what do you guys think pcb is? Some old run down company?

They do have an analyst with them. The whole pcb organization is a professional set up.
The team managment carries analyst with them.

For gods sake, whenever we lose a match, stop acting as if you know better than an already existing organization.

I think the guys name is talha butt or something and he is incharge of all the analysis.

Okay great! I’ve been meaning to get some info. Is he traveling with the team currently? Would love to know more.

In any case my point still stands. Why was the analysis not done on Woakes?

 

[ManFan]

Seriously, what do you guys think pcb is? Some old run down company?

They do have an analyst with them. The whole pcb organization is a professional set up.
The team managment carries analyst with them.

For gods sake, whenever we lose a match, stop acting as if you know better than an already existing organization.

So, please explain why the exalted PCB think-tank failed to provide the team with an idea of Woakes’ weakness?

Are the players renegades or inept? Who implements the analysis?

The PCB is professional? It certainly seems so.

Professional enough to give a guy the job he helped remove via a committee seat the previous holder.

Your “rationality” for the PCB’s operations is a ruse for your hero-worship of a guy who has poisoned every facet of our cricketing setup. Misbah; the PCB Caesar.

 

[MoFresh23]

Okay great! I’ve been meaning to get some info. Is he traveling with the team currently? Would love to know more.

In any case my point still stands. Why was the analysis not done on Woakes?

[MENTION=151892]Thunderbolt14[/MENTION]
His name is Talha Butt. He is traveling with the team. He has been Pak analyst for over a decade. They def need an another analyst or retrain this guy.
And your absolutely right the analysts job was to analyze during tea break on how to bowl against Woakes. The short ball or bowling short at his body is one of his weakness. But I didnt see that.

Pak needs to develop and nurture more analyst in the country. Eng has a team of analyst who use software like CricViz. Multan Sultans analyst Nathan Leamon is the chief analyst of the England team

 

[Thunderbolt14]

[MENTION=151892]Thunderbolt14[/MENTION]
His name is Talha Butt. He is traveling with the team. He has been Pak analyst for over a decade. They def need an another analyst or retrain this guy.
And your absolutely right the analysts job was to analyze during tea break on how to bowl against Woakes. The short ball or bowling short at his body is one of his weakness. But I didnt see that.

Pak needs to develop and nurture more analyst in the country. Eng has a team of analyst who use software like CricViz. Multan Sultans analyst Nathan Leamon is the chief analyst of the England team

It’s quite shocking to be honest. I don’t know much about the guy so I will refrain from explicitly saying he is a bad analyst overall as that wouldn’t be fair to him but he must answer for Pakistan failing to use the short ball against Woakes! If he cannot, then maybe better to replace him or at the very least create a larger team by adding 1-2 more analysts who have a good pedigree already.

I will also add that the failure to target Woakes is only the most obvious example. There must surely be other batsmen or bowlers as well who he has failed to analyse during his term with the Pakistan team, if he missed something as obvious as this?

 

[Savak]

Stuart Broad consistently troubled David Warner from around the wicket resulting in Warner having a torrid Ashes series. But what does the Pakistani team do in the next series, not a single bowler goes around the wicket to him early on in his innings and Warner has a big century and a triple century against us.

Woakes and buttler who were under pressure for their spots in the team, Woakes who had struggled against the short ball against other teams, but what does the Pakistani team do, not bowl a single short delivery to him barring one on which he almost got out

What is Waqar being paid to do exactly? He himself belongs to the same generation which did not believe in science and technology but more on natural talent and ability

 

[Savak]

So, please explain why the exalted PCB think-tank failed to provide the team with an idea of Woakes’ weakness?

Are the players renegades or inept? Who implements the analysis?

The PCB is professional? It certainly seems so.

Professional enough to give a guy the job he helped remove via a committee seat the previous holder.

Your “rationality” for the PCB’s operations is a ruse for your hero-worship of a guy who has poisoned every facet of our cricketing setup. Misbah; the PCB Caesar.

It also could be possible that the analyst told the players about Woakes weaknesses but the bowlers did not execute the plans properly.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

It also could be possible that the analyst told the players about Woakes weaknesses but the bowlers did not execute the plans properly.

Let’s play that out. He tells the players that Woakes is susceptible to the short ball, but they don’t bowl a single one until he’s on 70 odd runs?

I would be satisfied if they bowled a couple bouncers and failed to get his wicket — that’s what “not executing your plans properly” looks like. But the bowlers didn’t even try so it’s not their fault, but that of a) Waqar and b) the data analytics team. In fact, in an ideal setup, the data analytics team should be more responsible for this than the bowling coach.

So clearly, there is an issue there somewhere — you’re completely right about Warner vs Broad as well! How does the Pakistan coaching team fail to pick up on these things?

 

[Kroll]

Is that not why Younis was there with his notepad and pen?

 

[MenInG]

Let’s play that out. He tells the players that Woakes is susceptible to the short ball, but they don’t bowl a single one until he’s on 70 odd runs?

I would be satisfied if they bowled a couple bouncers and failed to get his wicket — that’s what “not executing your plans properly” looks like. But the bowlers didn’t even try so it’s not their fault, but that of a) Waqar and b) the data analytics team. In fact, in an ideal setup, the data analytics team should be more responsible for this than the bowling coach.

So clearly, there is an issue there somewhere — you’re completely right about Warner vs Broad as well! How does the Pakistan coaching team fail to pick up on these things?

Have a feeling Azhar bottled it - messed up plans and obviously got a rollicking behind the scenes.

 

[Major]

So, please explain why the exalted PCB think-tank failed to provide the team with an idea of Woakes’ weakness?

Are the players renegades or inept? Who implements the analysis?

The PCB is professional? It certainly seems so.

Professional enough to give a guy the job he helped remove via a committee seat the previous holder.

Your “rationality” for the PCB’s operations is a ruse for your hero-worship of a guy who has poisoned every facet of our cricketing setup. Misbah; the PCB Caesar.

woakes boucner, woakes bouncer.

if analyst were gettign everything right, wouldnt every team with an analyst be winning?

TOo much emphasis is being placed that oh did they did xyz or abc we would had won.


Like i said, everyone can become an experrt in hindsight

 

[Major]

Okay great! I’ve been meaning to get some info. Is he traveling with the team currently? Would love to know more.

In any case my point still stands. Why was the analysis not done on Woakes?

yup he is travelling.

We can only assume the analyis was missed. what if 99% of the time he got right? Its just assumptions

 

[Infinitee786]

The irony of this thread is that the everyone apart from the Pakistan cricket team knew to bowl a bouncer to Woakes.

If we give the benefit of the doubt and say the message was passed on and then a bouncer was eventually bowled which nearly led to a wicket; then the question arises why did we not persist with this strategy?

It’s either a tactical issue or a communication issue but there’s definitely a disconnect somewhere.

Personally, with the amount of data available I think we need a team of analysts as opposed to one. This would be developed strategies both outside of test matches but also in real time within test matches

 

[Zaz]

Doesnt look like the bowling coach or analyst is doing their jobs then

Two occasions warner and woakes where the bowlers have failed to target a batsmens weaknesses

 

[Bhaijaan]

Kapil Dev did not need data to become greatest AR of all time.

Haneef Mohammad didn't need data to play the greatest test match inning of all time.

Muralitharan didn't become the greatest bowler ever because of analytics.

This data nonsense is only to help support cricketing economy and bring food to table of many people involved.

A team of 15 players now travel with 20 support staff in modern day cricket. It's ridiculous. No wonder most cricketers now are really lalluuu

 

[Bhaijaan]

Use of technology and analytics isn't the same thing.

I was watching video of Chinese table tennis players. They use really innovative ways to train. Players being made to aim shots at frequently changing laser target image for hours, producing that perfect shot on command, training their mind subscoñsciously so they can put it in use in a match. That's the kind of technological intervention I would welcome in Cricket.

Feeding too much data into mind is confusing.amd risks producing a generation of boys who are good at doing what they are told to do only.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Yes it's cool if someone can tell the bokwer Chris Woakes is weak at facing shirt pitch bowling. It will give short term gains. But this sort of stuff will eventually.make him dumb as a human being who will continue to seek guidance and command from his coaching staff.

 

[Markhor]

We're still trying to master Microsoft Excel and MS Paint. I don't know what analysis is being done.

Management are stuck in 90s mindset that all we need are matchwinning individuals whose talunt will overwhelm the opposition.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

PCB is so dumb if they can't do data analysis. Hire me. I'm good with excel. I will do the job for Pakistan team better than these clowns.

 

[Zeshan547]

Meanwhile importance of data cannot be denied, but guys and thinking out of the box and according to situation is also must so and the process should aslo be fun not just the result for players, and they are humans and not robots who do programmed tasks, so there should be delicate balance between both, they should be mutually beneficial.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Meanwhile importance of data cannot be denied, but guys and thinking out of the box and according to situation is also must so and the process should aslo be fun not just the result for players, and they are humans and not robots who do programmed tasks, so there should be delicate balance between both, they should be mutually beneficial.

Indeed. It’s just situations where matchups are completely ignored that get frustrating, which cost us a few matches every year. Most recently, we missed out on our first away Test series win against England in decades due to a simple analytical oversight.

I don’t think it’s particularly expensive either compared to the returns on investment.