[PICTURE/VIDEOS] It wasn't the brilliance of Virat Kohli but the mediocrity of our bowlers -Thanks Irfan Khan Niazi for the reality check

[The Bald Eagle]

Both were a clash between Arch rivals, in both scenario the winning equation was the same and in both situations Shaheen Shah Afridi and Haris Rauf let the game slip. Infact, Irfan Khan Niazi didn't wait for any help from umpires and finished it 3 balls earlier than India. So this clearly manifest that it wasn't something "EXTRA ORDINARY" from Kohli but rather a mediocrity from our so called premium pacers that is letting us down now quite frequently for their ineptness in bowling death overs.

So it is high time for PCB, to start looking for alternative options in the death overs as lightening doesn't strike twice normally.

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[Asad T]

wild

Neither of them know how to bowl to a plan.

In yesterday's game:
- shaheen was bowling short when fine leg and square leg were up in the circle. niazi pulled for 6
- rauf bowling full on off stump with mid-off in the circle. niazi drove for 4

brainless stuff

 

[The Bald Eagle]

It's just a shame if PCB decides to continue with these habitual bottlers in future

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[Usman Chadda]

Zero game awareness.

Out cricket is really lacking.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Too much shade thrown in this thread

 

[Devadwal]

What an comparison sir. Virat scored runs in the high pressure match of World Cup against arch rivals Pakistan and Other one has scored in a low level league .

Only bro @The Bald Eagle can open the legendary comparison thread.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

wild

Neither of them know how to bowl to a plan.

In yesterday's game:
- shaheen was bowling short when fine leg and square leg were up in the circle. niazi pulled for 6
- rauf bowling full on off stump with mid-off in the circle. niazi drove for 4

brainless stuff

I don't even watch much cricket these days but I've been calling out Afridi's wild bowling for the past year. He has no control over where he puts it, can go down either side of the wicket and any length. He's turned into a slightly shorter version of Mohammed Irfan.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

What an comparison sir. Virat scored runs in the high pressure match of World Cup against arch rivals Pakistan and Other one has scored in a low level league .

Only bro @The Bald Eagle can open the legendary comparison thread.

LQ vs KK is like Indo Pak version of PSL, anyway if the magnitude isn't same. Won't you appreciate Niazi for bettering Kohli job by 3 balls to spare and that too with no controversial aid from umpires?

 

[Devadwal]

LQ vs KK is like Indo Pak version of PSL, anyway if the magnitude isn't same. Won't you appreciate Niazi for bettering Kohli job by 3 balls to spare and that too with no controversial aid from umpires?

Bro if Niazi can chased in a international match against even a Minnows them we can talk about it.

I have seen how he performed against NZ a months ago.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Bro if Niazi can chased in a international match against even a Minnows them we can talk about it.

I have seen how he performed against NZ a months ago.

@Hellion remember I mentioned this guy....and Devadwal bro you just wait here for reality check

 

[jnaveen1980]

They are probably brainless. Early season MCG pitch overly assisted pacers that day. Made them look like million bucks. If the current aggressive Rohit were there he would have scored all those runs against Shadab Khan and match would not have even gone the distance. Pakistan was very lucky Shadab got away with some half trackers.

 

[Sachin fan]

I don't even watch much cricket these days but I've been calling out Afridi's wild bowling for the past year. He has no control over where he puts it, can go down either side of the wicket and any length. He's turned into a slightly shorter version of Mohammed Irfan.

Yet his numbers are many times better than Naseem Shah who always flies under the radar in criticism.

 

[Usman Chadda]

They are probably brainless. Early season MCG pitch overly assisted pacers that day. Made them look like million bucks. If the current aggressive Rohit were there he would have scored all those runs against Shadab Khan and match would not have even gone the distance. Pakistan was very lucky Shadab got away with some half trackers.

These three were bowling at a much quicker pace than they are doing right now. Just go and check the average speeds, and Pakistan was way ahead of everyone else in terms of 140+ kph deliveries.

Watch their exceptional bowling performance against South Africa, that was as good as it got and the world was genuinely excited about the potential this bowling attack had.

Unfortunately, Shaheen got injured and came back way too early. Naseem lost his shoulder and was rushed back aswell. Haris was never as potent as the other two, and keeps getting smashed to all corners as teams have figured him out.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yet his numbers are many times better than Naseem Shah who always flies under the radar in criticism.

I think Afridi's numbers are probably better because he was very successful earlier on in his career. The last couple of years has seen a big deterioration in his performances. Naseem Shah is highly overrated as well. Has all the tools but the mentality of a poet, not a fast bowler.

 

[Devadwal]

Afridi is no longer the same bowler after The Injury and This problem is with entire subcontinent bowlers in this century barring some expections like Bumrah.

Now compared with SENA bowler's , Cummins post Injury becomes more lethal bowler so are Hazelwood or any other .

:what is the wrong with asian bowlers post the Injury?

 

[jnaveen1980]

These three were bowling at a much quicker pace than they are doing right now. Just go and check the average speeds, and Pakistan was way ahead of everyone else in terms of 140+ kph deliveries.

Watch their exceptional bowling performance against South Africa, that was as good as it got and the world was genuinely excited about the potential this bowling attack had.

Unfortunately, Shaheen got injured and came back way too early. Naseem lost his shoulder and was rushed back aswell. Haris was never as potent as the other two, and keeps getting smashed to all corners as teams have figured him out.

Virat Kohli was in absolutely terrible form playing that match. Pandya was struggling to connect the slower ones into the deck with very large square boundaries. What most of us didn't expect was Kohli playing an into the deck delivery straight down the ground. Those two shots required some amount of skill.

 

[Hellion]

@Hellion remember I mentioned this guy....and Devadwal bro you just wait here for reality check

Oh yes. What a world class knock in the highest quality league by such a young looking "21" year old.

Future is bright for PAK cricket

Next time, you will definitely beat USA with such talents

 

[Sachin fan]

I think Afridi's numbers are probably better because he was very successful earlier on in his career. The last couple of years has seen a big deterioration in his performances. Naseem Shah is highly overrated as well. Has all the tools but the mentality of a poet, not a fast bowler.

Naseem is way worse in recent times and afridi is better than people think

From beginning of 2024

Naseem averages

Tests 43, ODI 39, T20 35

Afridi averages

Tests 72 (he played only 2), ODI 26, t20s 21

Rauf averages

Tests DNP, ODI 29, T20 18

Naseem has been way worse than either but is always hyped up and escaped criticism.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Oh yes. What a world class knock in the highest quality league by such a young looking "21" year old.

Future is bright for PAK cricket

Next time, you will definitely beat USA with such talents

May sound odd but Trust me if Pakistan could beat USA with such talent then beating India would be much easier

 

[Sachin fan]

Tests is the ultimate proof of any fast bowlers and Naseem's numbers are same before and after his injury.

He has the same test numbers as Abbey kuruvilla and venkatesh Prasad which tells you all about his potential.

 

[Sachin fan]

These three were bowling at a much quicker pace than they are doing right now. Just go and check the average speeds, and Pakistan was way ahead of everyone else in terms of 140+ kph deliveries.

Watch their exceptional bowling performance against South Africa, that was as good as it got and the world was genuinely excited about the potential this bowling attack had.

Unfortunately, Shaheen got injured and came back way too early. Naseem lost his shoulder and was rushed back aswell. Haris was never as potent as the other two, and keeps getting smashed to all corners as teams have figured him out.

Tests is the ultimate proof of any fast bowlers and Naseem's numbers are same before and after his injury.



He has the same test numbers as Abbey kuruvilla and venkatesh Prasad which tells you all about his potential.

 

[Aham Brahmasmi]

Ohh is this another credit stealing thread?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Virat Kohli was in absolutely terrible form playing that match. Pandya was struggling to connect the slower ones into the deck with very large square boundaries. What most of us didn't expect was Kohli playing an into the deck delivery straight down the ground. Those two shots required some amount of skill.

Yes that shot requires great skills no doubt.

View attachment Straight six by Virat Kholi, Babar Azam and Haider Ali. which player played it better_ #cricket.mp4

 

[Hellion]

May sound odd but Trust me if Pakistan could beat USA with such talent then beating India would be much easier

Very easy to beat India in ICC World Cups /World T20's as can all attest to

 

[Bewal Express]

One of the noticeable things about our bowlers is how poor and ineffective the short ball is. They can barely get over hip height without breaking their own toe. Fair enough Haris and NS are short but what is SSA's excuse.

 

[topspin]

One of the noticeable things about our bowlers is how poor and ineffective the short ball is. They can barely get over hip height without breaking their own toe. Fair enough Haris and NS are short but what is SSA's excuse.

Doesn't have a high arm action. This is the problem with our coaches who played in the 90s. Back then the meta was low arm to achieve reverse swing. They are stuck in the past, so they will ask the bowlers of today to bowl with low arm actions.

 

[jnaveen1980]

One of the noticeable things about our bowlers is how poor and ineffective the short ball is. They can barely get over hip height without breaking their own toe. Fair enough Haris and NS are short but what is SSA's excuse.

I can't think of a fast bowler from Pakistan who could generate natural bounce. They are almost always skiddy type of bowlers due to the type of deliveries they prefer. Inswinging yorkers mostly. Even AKram was not exactly a bouncer specialist.

 

[Sachin fan]

I can't think of a fast bowler from Pakistan who could generate natural bounce. They are almost always skiddy type of bowlers due to the type of deliveries they prefer. Inswinging yorkers mostly. Even AKram was not exactly a bouncer specialist.

Waqar used to bowl a killer short ball before his injury. Broke Sachin's nose with it. Although to be fair, doesn't need to bounce too high to reach Sachin's nose.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Waqar used to bowl a killer short ball before his injury. Broke Sachin's nose with it. Although to be fair, doesn't need to bounce too high to reach Sachin's nose.

I am talking about natural bounce from a good length. Banging it short even i can bounce.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I can't think of a fast bowler from Pakistan who could generate natural bounce. They are almost always skiddy type of bowlers due to the type of deliveries they prefer. Inswinging yorkers mostly. Even AKram was not exactly a bouncer specialist.

Akram and, particularly, Akhtar generated plenty of bounce .

However, the likes of Sami, Rauf etc. don't for various reasons and thats why they get thrashed no matter what pace they bowl at.

 

[Bewal Express]

Doesn't have a high arm action. This is the problem with our coaches who played in the 90s. Back then the meta was low arm to achieve reverse swing. They are stuck in the past, so they will ask the bowlers of today to bowl with low arm actions.

Other bowlers with similar arm angles still manage to get it to blunce . Is it the flick of the wrist that generates speed but stop the power into the pitch? But anyone can just plonk their foot down the wicket and hit them and that's a why an effective short ball is still a very important weapon and none of our bowlers have it.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

I am talking about natural bounce from a good length. Banging it short even i can bounce.

IK and Sarfaraz Nawaz were good in bowling bouncers... Shoaib Akhtar was too but because of his action and so called hyperextension

 

[zarak]

Shaheen should just bowl 4 upfront on three

 

[jnaveen1980]

IK and Sarfaraz Nawaz were good in bowling bouncers... Shoaib Akhtar was too but because of his action and so called hyperextension

Shoaib AKhtar literally has to pitch it short to get any sort of bounce. Even Sandeep sharma can make the ball go above head by bowling half way down. Natural bounce is something you expect from taller bowlers with high release. If you have front braced leg like CUmmins does it is all the more better. Majority of the pakistan bowlers are used to bowling fuller. May be Pakistan's low bounce pitches don't allow them to be one. Tape ball culture is one reason. Tape ball doesn't bounce much like Tennis ball. Tape ball creates skiddy bowlers naturally.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Shaheen should just bowl 4 upfront on three

We need some death over specialist... although even our poor bowlers are able to get a decent start

 

[Usman Chadda]

Tests is the ultimate proof of any fast bowlers and Naseem's numbers are same before and after his injury.



He has the same test numbers as Abbey kuruvilla and venkatesh Prasad which tells you all about his potential.

None of these three want to play test cricket, and that has been the case since a long time.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Doesn't have a high arm action. This is the problem with our coaches who played in the 90s. Back then the meta was low arm to achieve reverse swing. They are stuck in the past, so they will ask the bowlers of today to bowl with low arm actions.

I actually started a thread about this, something about why all our fast bowlers have slingy actions, and basically I came to the same conclusion, all of them base their actions on reverse swing, which is no longer that effective at international level for a variety of reasons.

That thread didn't get much traction either, I think even our fans don't give it much thought.

 

[Savak]

Its not a question of lack of skills. These bowlers have routinely bottled pressure situations and don't know what to do. The signs are there that they just don't have it under adversity. How many more chances will an individual be given in the same scenario again and again in which he frequently fails?

Mohd Sami made a career by continuously playing for Pakistan on potential than actual performances. In any other country, he would not have played that many games just based on potential alone.

 

[Savak]

Naseem is way worse in recent times and afridi is better than people think

From beginning of 2024

Naseem averages

Tests 43, ODI 39, T20 35

Afridi averages

Tests 72 (he played only 2), ODI 26, t20s 21

Rauf averages

Tests DNP, ODI 29, T20 18

Naseem has been way worse than either but is always hyped up and escaped criticism.

If Naseem wasn't good looking, he wouldn't get much hype. The early hype he got was because of his age and then PR link up with Urvashi but he has no performances to speak off.

 

[Savak]

Shaheen is definitely an age fugder. He has been bowling like he is 30 in the last 2 years.

 

[Hitman]

Shaheen is definitely an age fugder. He has been bowling like he is 30 in the last 2 years.

Age fudger maybe. But 30 years old?

 

[Savak]

Age fudger maybe. But 30 years old?

What else can explain how a 144-148 km/hr operating pacer suddenly drops down to 132-136 km/hr in 1-2 years when he is in his prime years of 24-25 on paper?

Age Fudging suspicions are meritted.

 

[Rana]

MCG much tougher venue and Rauf is a monster on that deck.

It was the brilliance of Kohli that day.

 

[Hitman]

What else can explain how a 144-148 km/hr operating pacer suddenly drops down to 132-136 km/hr in 1-2 years when he is in his prime years of 24-25 on paper?

Age Fudging suspicions are meritted.

It could be his back injury along with age fudging.

 

[Rana]

Plus ground dimensions in Lahore, some of those sixes by Niazi may not have cleared the boundary at square/fine leg. They would have been down the fielder’s throat.

Clearing the ground is a completely different ball game.

It was indeed Kohli’s brilliance that day.

 

[Savak]

It could be his back injury along with age fudging.

Don't think Shaheen has had any back injuries. Knee injury yes, but he's had a good 2 plus years of playing time along with rest to recover so it can't be used as an excuse anymore.

Even before the knee injury, his record against the top teams in the premier formats was not much to write home about.

 

[Savak]

That said, the innings Kohli played on the big ground at the MCG was truly legendary and world class. Lets not forget, that was a spicy pitch with plenty of pace and bounce. All Rauf had to do was bowl 2 full pace bouncers at Kohli, Pandya and they would have struggled to hit the balls. The pressure of the occasion and Kohli's brilliance made Rauf completely forget about the conditions and bowl 2 unnecessary slow balls.

The sample size is pretty clear i.e. T20 WC SF in 2021, T20 game against India in 2022 and many others. Rauf, Shaheen are born bottlers when it really matters. It is permanently stickied on their foreheads. They can't do anything about it. The sooner the PCB realizes this, the better

 

[topspin]

I actually started a thread about this, something about why all our fast bowlers have slingy actions, and basically I came to the same conclusion, all of them base their actions on reverse swing, which is no longer that effective at international level for a variety of reasons.

That thread didn't get much traction either, I think even our fans don't give it much thought.

I certainly would have enjoyed reading this thread because this is an issue that has been massively overlooked and it certainly wouldn't surprise me if none of Pakistan's ex-players have been able to clock this.

Pakistan has produced a number of legendary players but unfortunately hardly any of them have a sound cricketing mind. I've been watching cricket for 25 years and the only captains I've seen who possess decent cricketing intelligence are Younis Khan, Salman Butt and maybe Hafeez, who is borderline case.

What worked for the bowlers in the 90s and 2000s does not work today. In the modern game there are far too many cameras, so the risk of getting caught ball tampering simply isn't worth it.

These low slingy arm actions are not the most effective when it comes to utilising the new ball and producing optimal seam movement.

This is why it's imperative Pakistan cricket has overseas coaches at all levels, including grassroots cricket, however if I was an overseas coach there's no way I would consider taking up a job with the PCB given their lack of professionalism and mistreatment of those who they have hired from abroad.

 

[topspin]

Other bowlers with similar arm angles still manage to get it to blunce . Is it the flick of the wrist that generates speed but stop the power into the pitch? But anyone can just plonk their foot down the wicket and hit them and that's a why an effective short ball is still a very important weapon and none of our bowlers have it.

I disagree. Shaheen has a very low arm action for someone so tall.

 

[giri26]

LQ vs KK is like Indo Pak version of PSL, anyway if the magnitude isn't same. Won't you appreciate Niazi for bettering Kohli job by 3 balls to spare and that too with no controversial aid from umpires?

Nope we can't. Stage and venue is very important. There is a reason Pakistan choked against USA. I am sure they wouldn't have if it was just a normal bi-lateral series. We used to play tennis ball tournaments in India and my team had a rival team. When we used to play it used to feel like Ind-Pak game, that does not mean that if I scored 48 runs in 18 balls, I can compare myself to what Kohli did at the MCG. Please don't bring down the quality of a very good cricket forum. The only cricket forum I am part of and have been for years.

 

[msb314]

If Naseem wasn't good looking, he wouldn't get much hype. The early hype he got was because of his age and then PR link up with Urvashi but he has no performances to speak off.

You can criticism Naseem but the fact remains he is our only bowler who is not a mental midget bottler…

 

[jnaveen1980]

That said, the innings Kohli played on the big ground at the MCG was truly legendary and world class. Lets not forget, that was a spicy pitch with plenty of pace and bounce. All Rauf had to do was bowl 2 full pace bouncers at Kohli, Pandya and they would have struggled to hit the balls. The pressure of the occasion and Kohli's brilliance made Rauf completely forget about the conditions and bowl 2 unnecessary slow balls.

The sample size is pretty clear i.e. T20 WC SF in 2021, T20 game against India in 2022 and many others. Rauf, Shaheen are born bottlers when it really matters. It is permanently stickied on their foreheads. They can't do anything about it. The sooner the PCB realizes this, the better

To be fair it was the slower ones that was harder to hit until that point. Naseem exclusively bowled slower ones which was much harder to time than full pace delivery where you can use pace to your advantage. Thought process was right. Same ball worked against Pandya. If you remember right Kohli declined 2nd run after 4th ball as he saw Pandya struggling against into the pitch slower ones.

 

[Greenstorm]

I actually started a thread about this, something about why all our fast bowlers have slingy actions, and basically I came to the same conclusion, all of them base their actions on reverse swing, which is no longer that effective at international level for a variety of reasons.

That thread didn't get much traction either, I think even our fans don't give it much thought.

Slingy action isn't the issue. Its their low IQ coupled with lack of ability to bowl consistent yorkers that lets them down. For example in that game vs India in MCG, these slingy bowlers easily removed Indian top order. Harris failed because he bowled wrong line and length in those two deliveries against Kohli. Pakistan was a fast bowler short anyways which was a blunder by Babar.

Harris Rauf learned from his mistake and went for yorkers in 24 WC against USA. He couldn't execute those yorkers which ended up as full tosses. It is his short strides (tape ball effect) which prevents him from executing yorkers that effects his performance instead of slingy action.

Best death over bowler in Pakistan is M Wasim jr (performed well in 22 and 23 WC) who is slingiest of them all. He succeeds because he keeps it simple; attacks stumps with inswinging yorkers at 145 kph.

Ali Raza has high arm action and he will be smacked just the same if he isn't smart (like Amir) and has the most important death over skill i.e reliable yorker (Amir never had it).

 

[Greenstorm]

I can't think of a fast bowler from Pakistan who could generate natural bounce. They are almost always skiddy type of bowlers due to the type of deliveries they prefer. Inswinging yorkers mostly. Even AKram was not exactly a bouncer specialist.

Natural bounce bowlers are easier to smack on low bounce Pakistani wickets. Ali Raza and even Ubaid is generating good bounce from length. Lets see how they will fare.

 

[Suleiman]

The MCG Kohli innings was the greatest t20 innings ever period alongside Mike Hussey semi final 2010 innings.

You can rank them either at 1 or 2 or tied at 1.

Both had Pakistan choking.

Reason I have Kohli at 1 is because Pak really didn’t choke all the way until the end which triggered by Kohli.

Hussey was given pies to ease into it.

Kohli had to face solid bowling all the way until the end. Haris didn’t really do that bad until that legside toss.

It was Nawaz who threw it to the ducks.

 

[ufcfan]

What else can explain how a 144-148 km/hr operating pacer suddenly drops down to 132-136 km/hr in 1-2 years when he is in his prime years of 24-25 on paper?

Age Fudging suspicions are meritted.

Injury,we have Mayank who has dropped atleast 20-25kph lol from last season

 

[Savak]

Injury,we have Mayank who has dropped atleast 20-25kph lol from last season

Tbh Mayank doesn't have a long body of work or resume. You can't be called a truly express bowler if all you have to show for it are a handful of express deliveries instead of a large number of years. At this point Mayank is just another Umran Malik.

 

[ufcfan]

Tbh Mayank doesn't have a long body of work or resume. You can't be called a truly express bowler if all you have to show for it are a handful of express deliveries instead of a large number of years. At this point Mayank is just another Umran Malik.

That was my point he didnt even play much
Umran is a different debate,he hasn't dropped pace,he was just asked to bowl short at body still clocked in high 140s regularly
Unfortunately he remained injured and got injured when he was about to make a comeback

 

[BouncerGuy]

The way Irfan smashed Shaheen, it was sad actually seeing shaheen's regressed form. He is not the same bowler anymore. Haris on the other hand is a beast bowlers in overseas conditions like Australia etc but we all know, his form in asian conditions is not the same.

 

[BouncerGuy]

KK misses no chance to troll other teams.... It's Shaheen's turn this time...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919118470106509707

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Kohlis knocks against Pakistan are some of the most clutch knocks in t20 cricket. To keep cool and not flinch under such game pressure and crowd pressure is just superhuman.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Doing it in farmers league vs doing it in an ICC tournament at MCG in front of 90,000 people isn't the same.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I certainly would have enjoyed reading this thread because this is an issue that has been massively overlooked and it certainly wouldn't surprise me if none of Pakistan's ex-players have been able to clock this.

Pakistan has produced a number of legendary players but unfortunately hardly any of them have a sound cricketing mind. I've been watching cricket for 25 years and the only captains I've seen who possess decent cricketing intelligence are Younis Khan, Salman Butt and maybe Hafeez, who is borderline case.

What worked for the bowlers in the 90s and 2000s does not work today. In the modern game there are far too many cameras, so the risk of getting caught ball tampering simply isn't worth it.

These low slingy arm actions are not the most effective when it comes to utilising the new ball and producing optimal seam movement.

This is why it's imperative Pakistan cricket has overseas coaches at all levels, including grassroots cricket, however if I was an overseas coach there's no way I would consider taking up a job with the PCB given their lack of professionalism and mistreatment of those who they have hired from abroad.

This is the thread here: https://ppforum.pakpassion.net/thre...-great-slinging-question.312057/post-11956155


I just had a look over it again, and seems there was as many Indian posters who commented as Pakistani. I don't think we value the art of seam bowling much, but in an era where reverse swing no longer comes into play as much, we really need to learn how to use the seam better, especially with the new ball.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Slingy action isn't the issue. Its their low IQ coupled with lack of ability to bowl consistent yorkers that lets them down. For example in that game vs India in MCG, these slingy bowlers easily removed Indian top order. Harris failed because he bowled wrong line and length in those two deliveries against Kohli. Pakistan was a fast bowler short anyways which was a blunder by Babar.

Harris Rauf learned from his mistake and went for yorkers in 24 WC against USA. He couldn't execute those yorkers which ended up as full tosses. It is his short strides (tape ball effect) which prevents him from executing yorkers that effects his performance instead of slingy action.

Best death over bowler in Pakistan is M Wasim jr (performed well in 22 and 23 WC) who is slingiest of them all. He succeeds because he keeps it simple; attacks stumps with inswinging yorkers at 145 kph.

Ali Raza has high arm action and he will be smacked just the same if he isn't smart (like Amir) and has the most important death over skill i.e reliable yorker (Amir never had it).

Death bowling is when the ball is old, and reverse swing comes into play. Ask yourself why Wasim Jr is not effective with the new ball?

It's not impossible to bowl an outswinger with a slingy action, but you have to be pretty exceptional. Coaches teach a side on action over the open chested one for a reason. That's how you get late away swing. Obviously you need to have some pace as well, but it's no surprise that Pakistan rarely produces genuine seam bowlers like Mohammad Abbas or Mohammad Asif any more. Those guys were not even particularly quick, but they had genuine ability to move the ball off the seam.

Look at the rest of the world's successful fast bowlers. Other than arguablyBumrah, which one has an in-slinging action?

 

[Pakhs]

As always it was a bit of both.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Nope we can't. Stage and venue is very important. There is a reason Pakistan choked against USA. I am sure they wouldn't have if it was just a normal bi-lateral series. We used to play tennis ball tournaments in India and my team had a rival team. When we used to play it used to feel like Ind-Pak game, that does not mean that if I scored 48 runs in 18 balls, I can compare myself to what Kohli did at the MCG. Please don't bring down the quality of a very good cricket forum. The only cricket forum I am part of and have been for years.

Kohli did great but it wasn't something out of this world...I still vividly remember how he struggled to hit Malinga and nuwan kulasekara for boundary in the death overs of T20 WC final in 2014....If our premium bowlers only had bowled more yorkers or fuller length deliveries then Kohli would've gone even before the 20th over.

And in the same tournament, England tamed him and won the semi-final empathically.

 

[Sachin fan]

You can criticism Naseem but the fact remains he is our only bowler who is not a mental midget bottler…

Yes the 35 averaging bowler, who has the same stats as AB kuruvilla and venkatesh Prasad, is really a clutch player. That's among the worst stats in history for someone taking more than 50 wickets.

 

[Greenstorm]

Death bowling is when the ball is old, and reverse swing comes into play. Ask yourself why Wasim Jr is not effective with the new ball?

It's not impossible to bowl an outswinger with a slingy action, but you have to be pretty exceptional. Coaches teach a side on action over the open chested one for a reason. That's how you get late away swing. Obviously you need to have some pace as well, but it's no surprise that Pakistan rarely produces genuine seam bowlers like Mohammad Abbas or Mohammad Asif any more. Those guys were not even particularly quick, but they had genuine ability to move the ball off the seam.

Look at the rest of the world's successful fast bowlers. Other than arguablyBumrah, which one has an in-slinging action?

Shaheen and Naseem are both effective new ball bowlers (LOIs). I mentioned death bowling because Shaheen and Harris struggle at that despite slingy actions.

Low bounce surfaces of Pakistan forces bowlers to be slingy because otherwise (with good bounce), ball sets up nicely to be hit. Dahani gets good bounce but he gets thrashed in domestics. He would've been an effective bowler had he played in SENA.

Asif and Abbas rely on skill and smarts instead of bounce. Still those type of bowlers are ineffective in LOIs.

Ali Raza is the perfect bowler that you want but his chances of success are not more than Naseem Shaheen types given our surfaces and emphasis on T20 cricket.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Kohli thrashed Rauf when he was at his absolute best and near his fastest .

Not this watered down version who is low on pace.

 

[Devadwal]

Kohli thrashed Rauf when he was at his absolute best and near his fastest .

Not this watered down version who is low on pace.

KOHLI has thrashed all the bowlers in their prime. Remember 2016-17 BGT Trophy when Red hot Johnson smashed by Kohli and rahane.

Smashing Pakistan bowler's is too easy for .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Shaheen and Naseem are both effective new ball bowlers (LOIs). I mentioned death bowling because Shaheen and Harris struggle at that despite slingy actions.

Low bounce surfaces of Pakistan forces bowlers to be slingy because otherwise (with good bounce), ball sets up nicely to be hit. Dahani gets good bounce but he gets thrashed in domestics. He would've been an effective bowler had he played in SENA.

Asif and Abbas rely on skill and smarts instead of bounce. Still those type of bowlers are ineffective in LOIs.

Ali Raza is the perfect bowler that you want but his chances of success are not more than Naseem Shaheen types given our surfaces and emphasis on T20 cricket.

Shaheen and Naseem actually prove my point as they have classical actions, not slingy open chested like Wasim Jr. or to some extent, Rauf. Their issues are lack of control, nothing wrong with their actions.

Ali Raza, Asif and Abbas are not suitable because they are medium pace, nothing to do with their action. If they were a bit quicker they would be top bowlers.

 

[Greenstorm]

Shaheen and Naseem actually prove my point as they have classical actions, not slingy open chested like Wasim Jr. or to some extent, Rauf. Their issues are lack of control, nothing wrong with their actions.

Ali Raza, Asif and Abbas are not suitable because they are medium pace, nothing to do with their action. If they were a bit quicker they would be top bowlers.

Ali is bowling at 145 kph in this PSL. Same goes for Ubaid.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ali is bowling at 145 kph in this PSL. Same goes for Ubaid.

Sorry not really watching PSL this year. I assume they are lacking in some other department then. Mohammad Irfan had everything for example, pace, seam movement and height...but he couldn't pitch the ball where he needed to consistently enough. Maybe these guys are similar. I count Shaheen and Naseem in this camp also.

 

[Ball Blazer]

Lahore Qalandars Team Director Sameen Rana speaks in support of under-fire pacers Shaheen Shah Afridi and Haris Rauf, ranking them among the best bowlers in the world despite underwhelming performance in PSL X.

“Haris Rauf and Shaheen Afridi are the pride of Pakistan. They are the best bowlers in the world. Good and bad days come,” said Rana.

“I have a very deep connection with Shaheen and Haris Rauf. I understand them. They are more disappointed than I am and are desperate to do well,” he added.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Bhai kyun Lahore k peechay para hai?

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[JaDed]

Of course only the mediocre bowlers can lose the game from a winning position against a downhill Kohli.

Time for Joginder Sharma to coach the Pakistani bowlers on how to handle pressure.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Kohli did great but it wasn't something out of this world...I still vividly remember how he struggled to hit Malinga and nuwan kulasekara for boundary in the death overs of T20 WC final in 2014....If our premium bowlers only had bowled more yorkers or fuller length deliveries then Kohli would've gone even before the 20th over.

And in the same tournament, England tamed him and won the semi-final empathically.

Pakistan actually kept him quiet for more than 10 overs. Same kind of deliveries that they bowled kept Kohli and Pandya quiet till 17th over. Suddenly you want a different type of balls? It was a smart plan at the MCG with 80 meter side boundaries on either side. Nobody will bowl yorker at MCG with relatively shorter boundary behind the wicket and infront of the wicket.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Sorry not really watching PSL this year. I assume they are lacking in some other department then. Mohammad Irfan had everything for example, pace, seam movement and height...but he couldn't pitch the ball where he needed to consistently enough. Maybe these guys are similar. I count Shaheen and Naseem in this camp also.

Naseem is accurate for the most part. Just doesn't generate enough pace or lift nowadays to threaten batsmen . Not consistently anyway

 

[aqibcric]

NO improvement in haris and rauf targeting only pace lack of line lenght and game awareness.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Naseem is accurate for the most part. Just doesn't generate enough pace or lift nowadays to threaten batsmen . Not consistently anyway

I think he can generate both, just he doesn't really pitch in the right areas. He's accurate in that he can bowl generally in the stumps area, but, and isn't completely random like Shaheen, but he doesn't really hit the right areas with the right seam action. I don't know if this is accuracy or maybe just lack of bowling IQ.