Abdullah719
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[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] wins this week's award for his comprehensive analysis in the Boxing Thread. Congratulations!
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?212722-Boxing-Thread&p=9903723#post9903723
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?212722-Boxing-Thread&p=9903723#post9903723
GGG/Canelo
Credit to both Canlo Alvarez and GGG on a terrific fight but am not going to mince my words when it comes to GGG's performance or judge him like one of his fans despite routing for him (see my posts in this thread). You can take a poll of the entire universe, it won't really mean anything because the perfect outcome for them is one which involves their favourite fighter winning, however industry experts did not have a problem with the result including GGG's own trainer Abel Sanchez, he gave support to the judges and pointed out how they were positioned all around the ring with the best eye beyond the corner men, in his own words GGG only did things which were available to him although he did hope for much better.
If fans scored fights, Ricky Hatton would have been ahead on the score cards before he was stopped by Mayweather. Pro Boxing is not a sport which can be measured by statistics, you take them with a pinch of salt or else we would be relying on the amateur incarnations scoring system. You can clearly see from this picture after the fight and the action what those numbers do not show:
A robbery is a fight where one decisively dominates 80%+ of the fight and still finds himself on the losing end, the judges and Canelo did not screw GGG, GGG screwed GGG because this wasn't a fight which he dominated in such fashion, we can say the same from the POV of Canelo to an extent to, this is why when there's a couple of points in it and one or the other gets the nod in a competitive bout no one can really complain, but it's not really an issue among the purists. Canelo fought a better fight and GGG failed to do all the things he said he would do, am surprised this has not been highlighted enough. He did not attack the body, cut the ring or put any significant combinations together, largely due to Canelo taking away the effectiveness of his jab.
GGG is not going to be the same fighter he was at 25 but in this era especially with the knowledge available when it comes to sports science, we do have plenty of late bloomers, Wladmir almost beat AJ despite being 40+, Bernard Hopkins holds multiple worlds record for being the oldest world champion in his 40s, Rocky Mariciano retired undefeated in his 30s, Floyd Mayweather had the greatest run of his career in his 30s, other famous late bloomers include Earnier Shavers and Sergio Matinez. If GGG belongs in the same class then his age shouldn't be an issue, more over he is hardly an old man as it is and his biggest weapon in power is the last thing you lose as a fighter and he was unable to do any damage with it.
GGG would struggle against Canelo whether it was 2012 or 2017, styles make fights and his systematic brawling is tailor made for a counter punching technician like Canelo, he just moves forward methodically throwing his jab without feinting it, against journeyman who lack lateral movement, speed and ring generalship he will be able to land it successfully, cut them off and set up his power punches, more over he'd be able to work on the inside to, but when you're up against someone who is faster, sharper and light on their feet it isn't so easy, if it wasn't for GGG's granite chin he would get stopped brutally by a Canelo, he was looking one dimensional even against Kell Brook before his team threw in the pre-meditated towel. Kell lacks heart but he has some skill, been world champ and the most important in this example is that he was another counter puncher.
Canelo does have weaknesses (which is why he struggles vs Jacobs and BJS) but over the last couple of years he has added more strings to his bow which I didn't think he would be capable off and the biggest being his foot movement, no longer is he flat footed and while his ring generalship has been excellent with more experience his adaptability has become his biggest strength, very rare to see a fighter go from being a counter puncher which plods forward with poor technique (the youngster who fought Floyd) to one which can move laterally to one which can hold his own vs a brawler in the pocket with his speed and upper body movement to slip / slide loaded up punches. There is no shame in losing rounds to Amir Khan, I mean who is able to do it consistently! the only way to beat him is by knock out, I never both scoring his fights which makes watching them even more enjoyable.
Mike Tyson
GGG doesn't deserve a comparison to the great Iron Mike Tyson who is a member of every elite Boxing Hall of Fame, unlike Triple G he was no brawler (one with a good jab may I add), Tyson was a technically sound KO artist at his peak and no fighter in the history of our sport has dismantled fighters in the fashion he did.
Tyson's career was that of two phases, one under Cus D'amato and Kevin Rooney, then the second phase under... his own demons. Tyson at his peak was invincible despite being handicaped as a HW by his lack of height he made incredible use of Cus D'amato's peak a boo style which revolves around placing your hands in front of your face, improving your protection with the forearms in front of the face and the fist at nose-eye level whilst Tyson moved his head side to side, bobbing, weaving and blind siding his opponents with counters. During this period Tyson was invincible and undefeated then in 1988 (prior to the Douglas defeat) many of his problems outside the ring were starting to come to light.
For one his marriage to Robin Givens was heading for divorce, he was abusing various substances, did not train properly and it all culminated in one of his greatest mistakes in allowing Don King and Bill Cayton to buy out his contract; these fools were instrumental in getting Kevin Rooney fired who was instrumental in honing Tyson's craft and Peek-a-Boo style; when he was fired Tyson was no longer effective, he completely dropped the peek a boo style, there was zero head movement and he relied mostly on his freakish power to win fights because never go into the ring with a proper training camp behind him or game plan, his only goal would be to make weight so he wouldn't lose his title on the scales and get paid. It all would culminate in that defeat to Douglas who should have been counted out in the 8th round were it not for incompetent reffing.
Then in the 90's the less said the better, the issues I point out in 1988 would be magnified and he was past his best days but given his raw talent, still managed to win the undisputed HW Championship.
I'v never really understood where these rumours regarding Tyson's resume originated from, my understanding is that it is mostly folk who have never studied or followed heavyweight boxing in the 80's but no problem we can go through it:
Larry Holms - This was the only KO loss of his career and after losing to Mike he won a further 22 bouts and lost just 3 times.
Michael Spinks - Tyson's greatest win, Spinks was the Lineal Heavyweight Champion and the man who beat the man (Much like Tyson Fury in the current era), he was an undefeated 2 weight world champion and both Tyson and Spinks were both in the top two spots of the best Heavyweights in the world, in the biggest fight of all time at the time (shattered all box office records) Tyson beat Spinks within seconds!
Trevo Berbick - World Champion, defeated Page, Tate and Ali; also went the distance with Holms.
James Bonecrusher - Beat Witherspoon in just one round! KO win over Bruno as well. He was no can at all. You can judge him perform for yourself on youtube.
Bruno - Due to some high profile losses he tends to fall under the radar but is one of the best heavy weights we have ever produced in British Boxing history, he lost to prime Tyson but prior to that was performing well before being stopped by the highly ranked Witherspoon and James Bonecrusher (same can be said with regards to his fight with Lewis), Frank would lose once again to the 90's Tyson but prior to that had become World Champion by beating a McCall who dethroned Lennox Lewis when his brains were still working.
Pinklon Thomas - One of the most talented all round boxers in the aftermath of Holms reign, he had just one defeat to Berbick before he challenged Tyson.
Tucker - A gold medalist at the pan american games, he was one of the best heavyweights of the 80s in america, was 34-0 prior to challenging Mike and one of his wins included Buster Douglas who would then go onto beat the likes of Berbck, McCall and Tyson himself after that.
Tyrell Biggs - Was a former world champion and Olympic Gold medalist, undefeated prior to facing Tyson and was soundly beaten.
Carl Williams - Had a record of 22 wins and 2 defeats coming into the fight, one of his defeats was to former world champion Holms in a controversial fight in which he competed very well.
Tilman - This is a very under rated win in my opinion, Tyson was coming into the fight on the back of a beating from Douglas; Tilman had won Olympic gold as an amateur and at that level held 2 wins over Mike, it all could have gone quiet wrong as Mike you'd think would have been affected by his defeat to Douglas, but then Tilman was blown away as if he was nothing in just 1 round.
Ruddock - Another under rated win partly due to how he was beaten swiftly by Lewis, but coming into a fight with Tyson he had lost just once and had a great career before turning pro. He performed quiet well against Tyson in both fights in a losing cause.
Many of these Tyson victims suffered severe reputation loss after being dismantled by Tyson and the KO's also ripped a piece of their soul, the 80's were notorious for substance abuse and all said fighters dealt with the defeat with drugs, this also played a role in how well they would do in the division in years which would pass but their individual skill can never be in doubt especially if you watched them perform, they were a product of the golden era and would have competed very well in the 70s but a combination of narcotics and the shear brilliance of Mike Tyson ruined their pursuits in the sport. But they did forge very impressive streaks in the lead up to their challenge of Tyson. Douglas in a way is a great example of talent in 80s, many would look at him and say, oh what a bum! 44-1 under dog! etc, but if you watched the fight it was rare to see a man Busters size move so well, he was fast, sharp and put his punches together so well, he had shown the same ability vs Tucker as well. It's a shame he lacked the consistency required to remain at the top.
Beyond these names there were plenty of other fringe contenders to, I find it hard to accept that anyone would put GGG's resume on a level playing field as Mike Tyson who ranks inside the top 3 for facing the most world champions in heavyweight boxing history.
Final Thoughts
GGG is a great fighter, but despite being ranked among the top P4P fighters in the world today he has struggled to dominate both Jacobs and Canelo, there is no signature performance against an elite talent for him to boast but that's not to take away from his effort in both fights against Canelo but I do feel his fans overly rate him based on a KO streak vs inferior opposition, in many cases some who were moving up from 2 weights below him! You can still make an argument for him among the best 160 lb fighters ever but I can't see him beating Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran or Bernard Hopkins, I'd put him a tier below those names, Canelo can end his career in the same likeness of the real fab 4 of international sport.
But right now I think it is more important to appreciate both fighters for putting on on hell of a fight and showing their world class pedigree, am not a fan of belittling the wins of fighters who earned their victory or getting too caught up in the result unless it was a day light robbery which was not the case here; am not denying that judges can be favourable to the A side in Vegas but a close fight like this, we can't complain. I wanted GGG to win as well and was disappointed, but he was beaten by the better fighter. In the end the real winners were the Boxing fans, never forget that.
Am glad Boxing gets a little bit of the spotlight in this instance!
Good point you made regarding team sports, these days I only seem to follow international tournaments or crunch games in the championship
