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Pre-1970 vs post-1970 World Test XI? Who will win?

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Harsh Thakor

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Arguably the decade of the 1970's defined a new epoch in test cricket with pace bowling skill and agression taking a new dimension.Yet it was before 1970 that Don Bradman had his career and Gary Sobers had the major part of his career.Morally they were arguably 2 cricketers rolled into one.For pre-1970 I have excluded all cricketers who started before 1970 apart from Barry Richards who started from 1969-70.

Pre 1970 test x1

Jack Hobbs
Victor Trumper
George Headley
Don Bradman (c)
Graeme Pollock
Gary Sobers
Keith Miller
Godfrey Evans
Ray Lindwall
Jim Laker
Sydney Barnes

12th man Everton Weekes


Post 1970 xi

Sunil Gavaskar
Barry Richards
Viv Richards
Brian lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Imran Khan(c)
Adam Gilchrist
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Malcolm Marshall
Glen Mcgrath

12th man
Ian Botham




Amazingly the pre-1970 team could come within touching distance of the post-1970 one.The all-round cricketing skill of Sobers which no cricketer has ever morally come even close to,the incomparable run-making prowess of Bradman,the match-winning fast bowling all-rounder in Keith Miller ,the wicket taking frequency of Sydney Barnes ,the pace bowling skill of Lindwall and the mastery of Headley on bad wickets.


What would give post-1970 team a fractional edge is that the batsmen and fast bowlers are more explosive and thus better match-winners.The bowling skill of Marshal,Wasim,Mcgrath,Imran and Warne would surpass that of Lindwall,Laker,Miller,Sobers and Barnes.Barry,Viv,Sachin,Lara and Gilchrist would pulverize opposing bowlers more than Hobbs,Bradman, Headley and Polllock combined. Still on their day the pre-1970 team could well win particularly on favourable tracks.Arguably in conditions of pre-1970 decades the pre-1970 team had a good chance.In condition s prevailing in the modern era hard to conceive pre-1970 team winning .


Very hard to drop Kallis or Botham from post-1970s but Imran got there because of captaincy.Lillee could alos well have made it in place of Mcgrath.
 
Barry Richards could not be in the team, how many tests did he play?.
 
Gilly said:
Barry Richards could not be in the team, how many tests did he play?.
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7
He was simply a genius.See his performances in WSC cricket in super tests in 1977-78 in Australia.Alos fantastic at home v Australia in 1969-70.
 
Why have you ignored MJ Procter, he would be the perfect allrounder.
 
Hutton for Hobbs Godfrey Evans makes a world xi averaging 20 how about Ames averaging 40?
It's close the pre 70s middle order is immense the post 70s is strong all round who will win we'll never know similar to how players would perform in different eras.
 
Cric1234 said:
Hutton for Hobbs Godfrey Evans makes a world xi averaging 20 how about Ames averaging 40?
It's close the pre 70s middle order is immense the post 70s is strong all round who will win we'll never know similar to how players would perform in different eras.
Click to expand...

Good case for Hutton. Virtually made it.Maye Ames or don talllon?
 
Don Tallon with a batting average of 17 would be a useful addition to any line up.
 
Cric1234 said:
Hutton for Hobbs Godfrey Evans makes a world xi averaging 20 how about Ames averaging 40?
It's close the pre 70s middle order is immense the post 70s is strong all round who will win we'll never know similar to how players would perform in different eras.
Click to expand...

You genuinely give pre70 team a chance?we agree. Who do you overall rate better?
 
Gilly said:
Barry Richards could not be in the team, how many tests did he play?.
Click to expand...
How many SuperTests did Lara and Tendulkar play?

Both Viv Richards and Imran say they were a much higher level than the Tests they played!
Gilly said:
Why have you ignored MJ Procter, he would be the perfect allrounder.
Click to expand...

Harsh Thakor said:
Very good point.missed out because of Imrans leadership qualities.Almost made xi.
Click to expand...
I would replace Hobbs with Barry Richards and Headley with Mike Procter - I think pre-1970 win then.....
 
Harsh Thakor said:
Why do you say that?such greats before 1970.
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I will give you a very logical and technical answer to that question - but then that would require you to engage in a proper facts based discussion which I don't think you are capable of based on past evidence. All you want to do in your threads is to swoon over how great the past players were and indulge in some serious nostalgia amongst the believers. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] will shortly arrive here and add some more high octane fuel to this.
 
Trueman and Davidson pre 70s can match and compete well with any modern day fast bowlers there isn't enough evidence to know how good Sydney Barnes was it was an era of bowlers performing better than batsmen.
 
Tusker said:
I will give you a very logical and technical answer to that question - but then that would require you to engage in a proper facts based discussion which I don't think you are capable of based on past evidence. All you want to do in your threads is to swoon over how great the past players were and indulge in some serious nostalgia amongst the believers. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] and [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] will shortly arrive here and add some more high octane fuel to this.
Click to expand...
Is this a coveted or uncovered pitch?
 
One thing is for sure bowlers wouldn't be all time great anymore bowling to such a lineup consistently on pitches favouring batsmen.
 
Junaids said:
Both Viv Richards and Imran say they were a much higher level than the Tests they played!

.
Click to expand...

But Barry Richards only faced the West Indies bowlers once and scored 37 runs, the remainder of his innings in the supertests he only faced Pascoe, Walker, Bright and Lillee. Thats it, thats the only bowlers he faced.

In Barry Richards test career the only bowlers he faced were McKenzie, Connolly, Walker and Gleeson, thats it these are the only bowlers he faced in his entire test career.
 
Junaids said:
Is this a coveted or uncovered pitch?
Click to expand...

It does not matter.

And I will say this in advance - you will abruptly quit this thread pretty soon as your one and only basis for the lofty opinions that you have about old era players is 2nd hand stories and verbal accounts that noone bothers to fact check. While this is cute and even worked in the old days it does not work anymore. Certainly not with me. Once you are forced to debate without resorting to name dropping and producing unsubstantated stories you are left with 2 options - 1. Acknowledge that you have been wrong. 2 Walk away from debate to save face.
 
Harsh Thakor said:
Arguably the decade of the 1970's defined a new epoch in test cricket with pace bowling skill and agression taking a new dimension.Yet it was before 1970 that Don Bradman had his career and Gary Sobers had the major part of his career.Morally they were arguably 2 cricketers rolled into one.For pre-1970 I have excluded all cricketers who started before 1970 apart from Barry Richards who started from 1969-70.

Pre 1970 test x1

Jack Hobbs
Victor Trumper
George Headley
Don Bradman (c)
Graeme Pollock
Gary Sobers
Keith Miller
Godfrey Evans
Ray Lindwall
Jim Laker
Sydney Barnes

12th man Everton Weekes


Post 1970 xi

Sunil Gavaskar
Barry Richards
Viv Richards
Brian lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Imran Khan(c)
Adam Gilchrist
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Malcolm Marshall
Glen Mcgrath

12th man
Ian Botham




Amazingly the pre-1970 team could come within touching distance of the post-1970 one.The all-round cricketing skill of Sobers which no cricketer has ever morally come even close to,the incomparable run-making prowess of Bradman,the match-winning fast bowling all-rounder in Keith Miller ,the wicket taking frequency of Sydney Barnes ,the pace bowling skill of Lindwall and the mastery of Headley on bad wickets.


What would give post-1970 team a fractional edge is that the batsmen and fast bowlers are more explosive and thus better match-winners.The bowling skill of Marshal,Wasim,Mcgrath,Imran and Warne would surpass that of Lindwall,Laker,Miller,Sobers and Barnes.Barry,Viv,Sachin,Lara and Gilchrist would pulverize opposing bowlers more than Hobbs,Bradman, Headley and Polllock combined. Still on their day the pre-1970 team could well win particularly on favourable tracks.Arguably in conditions of pre-1970 decades the pre-1970 team had a good chance.In condition s prevailing in the modern era hard to conceive pre-1970 team winning .


Very hard to drop Kallis or Botham from post-1970s but Imran got there because of captaincy.Lillee could alos well have made it in place of Mcgrath.
Click to expand...

Unbelievably common choice - I would have made just three changes - Richie Benaud for Laker (He leads), Truman for Barnes, and Murali for McGrath (in fact Mac would miss to DK Lillee as well for my XI, if 4 pacers are to play). SRT vs Greg Chappell is another extremely close one; just like Syd Barnes & Truman.

The team of 70s will win 6-0 in 6 Tests series, if it's played on uncovered wickets any where in planet earth and will win 6-0 batting once, if it's played on covered modern wicket anywhere in galaxy.

I have all sort of respect for Bradman and Hobbs and Sobers and Truman ..... they are the legends of the game - just like Fred Perry or Rene Lacoste in Tennis or Byron Nelson in golf or Jese Owens in athletics or Stanley Mathews in soccer. But, I also have seen Jack Jobbs's "technique", which is still the standard for pre WW2 era ..........
 
Post 70’s will win every match within 2 days.. Might embarrass the pre 70’s team and win within 1 day..

People need to accept cricket has evolved a lot from the old days and you just can’t compare amateur era with professional era.. The greats of past laid the foundation for the modern greats to build on the foundation and improve on that.. However the whole comparison is between the first model of an airoplane vs a gen next modern fighter jet.. Just not feasible and is frankly embarrassing for the past legends...
 
big_gamer007 said:
Post 70’s will win every match within 2 days.. Might embarrass the pre 70’s team and win within 1 day..

People need to accept cricket has evolved a lot from the old days and you just can’t compare amateur era with professional era.. The greats of past laid the foundation for the modern greats to build on the foundation and improve on that.. However the whole comparison is between the first model of an airoplane vs a gen next modern fighter jet.. Just not feasible and is frankly embarrassing for the past legends...
Click to expand...

True all the modern greats are averaging 150 emulating and destroying past feats or maybe not it would be interesting to witness continues collapses with a batting line up of Hutton Bradman Pollock Sobers and others something which is highly unlikely about as good as it gets.
 
Cric1234 said:
True all the modern greats are averaging 150 emulating and destroying past feats or maybe not it would be interesting to witness continues collapses with a batting line up of Hutton Bradman Pollock Sobers and others something which is highly unlikely about as good as it gets.
Click to expand...


There’s enough footage available of these batsmen to know how they would fare against modern bowlers.. They were great for their time but cricket has evolved too much.. Most of the footage available is fast forwarded so as not to make the bowlers and batsmen of that time look totally duds.

In current day a batting line up of kohli, smith, root, cook will perform far better than the names you have mentioned. They were greats of their time but how much would have they evolved if they were playing today it’s only a guess, we are just extrapolating that they would have revolved into top level players in modern times as well but we do not know for certain.. Probability is good that they might have been top level players however what if their ceiling was not as high as modern players?
 
Cricket only reached professional standard after 1970s. That is when the real batsmen and real bowlers emerged.

Pre 1970 team won't even compete against Ireland today. You are essentially compare amateur cricket to professional cricket.
 
Mamoon said:
Cricket only reached professional standard after 1970s. That is when the real batsmen and real bowlers emerged.

Pre 1970 team won't even compete against Ireland today. You are essentially compare amateur cricket to professional cricket.
Click to expand...

I agree with [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]. However, I would also like to add that if those pre-1970s players would have born in this era they would have definitely excelled in the professional cricket as well. A champion in one era would have remained a champion in any era.This is where comparisons across era becomes very tough and we should refrain ourselves from this.
 
Ab Fan said:
I agree with [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]. However, I would also like to add that if those pre-1970s players would have born in this era they would have definitely excelled in the professional cricket as well. A champion in one era would have remained a champion in any era.This is where comparisons across era becomes very tough and we should refrain ourselves from this.
Click to expand...

While that may hold true for most players it’s nkt a certainty.. Some players have a ceiling limit which they might have not been able to achieve in today’s era.. For e.g. a person might dominate at college level and be the best in that level however when it’s time to raise his ceiling for international level he realises his max capacity is to dominate at college level only..

Happens to a lot of players in every sports.. What if Hobbs or Bradman’s max capacity was hand eye coordination against trundlers bowling at 110-120kmph? They were beastly at facing that level of bowling however what If that was their max ceiling? We can only guess and assume they would have been beastly in this era and their game would have extrapolated to today’s standard but that is an assumption..

Hence these sort of threads are pretty unecessary since cricketers in amateur era were great for that time and are legends no doubt but one has to assume what their capabilities might have been if they had played today..
 
Ab Fan said:
I agree with [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]. However, I would also like to add that if those pre-1970s players would have born in this era they would have definitely excelled in the professional cricket as well. A champion in one era would have remained a champion in any era.This is where comparisons across era becomes very tough and we should refrain ourselves from this.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. That is why I do not believe in making cross-era comparisons, since irrespective of the level you are playing at, you need to have something special to standout from the competition, and any player who has towered above his peers in any era deserves to be considered a great player.
 
Cric1234 said:
True all the modern greats are averaging 150 emulating and destroying past feats or maybe not it would be interesting to witness continues collapses with a batting line up of Hutton Bradman Pollock Sobers and others something which is highly unlikely about as good as it gets.
Click to expand...

It would be a great achievement for these Hobbs and Huttons if they survive a single over from a fired up Dale Steyn.
 
Rahul1 said:
It would be a great achievement for these Hobbs and Huttons if they survive a single over from a fired up Dale Steyn.
Click to expand...

Hutton was a great opener Hobbs wasn't tested enough to be great seeing as cricket became professional post 70s it's a suprise players from pre 70s didn't become worse because performances remained similar.
But these things don't matter just plucking a decade and saying it's a whole new game despite no evidence satisfies some people's minds.
 
In the last 4 years Sobers played test cricket he averaged over 50 71-74 whereas he averaged in the 30s the first 4 years 54-57 dispels the myth cricket suddenly became professional post 70s.
 
Pre-70 Xi:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman (C)
Hammond
Sobers
Keith Miller
Godfrey Evans
Lindwall
Trueman
Larwood
Bill O'Reilly

Darn amazing team with three elite quality all-rounders..
 
Chrish said:
Pre-70 Xi:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman (C)
Hammond
Sobers
Keith Miller
Godfrey Evans
Lindwall
Trueman
Larwood
Bill O'Reilly

Darn amazing team with three elite quality all-rounders..
Click to expand...

Hutton
Boycott
Bradman
Pollock
Sobers
Miller
Ames
Davidson
O'Reilly
Trueman
Lindwall

Hayden
Gavasker
Lara
Tendulkar
Richards
Gilchrist
Imran
Warne/Murali
Marshall
Mcgrath
Garner

Based on class and stats that's about as good as it gets for both teams bowling is a bit ahead post 70s but the top order of pre 70s would take some dislodging especially on better wickets.
 
Holding needs to be there for his ferociousness in post-1970 XI. That would give teeth to the team.
 
Cric1234 said:
Hutton
Boycott
Bradman
Pollock
Sobers
Miller
Ames
Davidson
O'Reilly
Trueman
Lindwall

Hayden
Gavasker
Lara
Tendulkar
Richards
Gilchrist
Imran
Warne/Murali
Marshall
Mcgrath
Garner

Based on class and stats that's about as good as it gets for both teams bowling is a bit ahead post 70s but the top order of pre 70s would take some dislodging especially on better wickets.
Click to expand...

Boycott has no place in any XI.
 
Cric1234 said:
In the last 4 years Sobers played test cricket he averaged over 50 71-74 whereas he averaged in the 30s the first 4 years 54-57 dispels the myth cricket suddenly became professional post 70s.
Click to expand...

The problem here is you taking it literally. Nothing changes in the span of few yrs. It takes decades to see significant change. It was not like cut and dry. 60s was amateur and 70s was pro. It doesn't work that way.
 
Chrish said:
Pre-70 Xi:

Hobbs
Hutton
Bradman (C)
Hammond
Sobers
Keith Miller
Godfrey Evans
Lindwall
Trueman
Larwood
Bill O'Reilly

Darn amazing team with three elite quality all-rounders..
Click to expand...

Some ATG slippers in there too.
 
Tusker said:
The problem here is you taking it literally. Nothing changes in the span of few yrs. It takes decades to see significant change. It was not like cut and dry. 60s was amateur and 70s was pro. It doesn't work that way.
Click to expand...

Amateur status was finally abolished in 1963 when the Gentlemen vs Players fixture ended.

The distinction between amateur and professional was blurred a long time before that and referred more to social class than remuneration. Even the Grace brothers made money playing cricket in the late nineteenth century.
 
Robert said:
Amateur status was finally abolished in 1963 when the Gentlemen vs Players fixture ended.

The distinction between amateur and professional was blurred a long time before that and referred more to social class than remuneration. Even the Grace brothers made money playing cricket in the late nineteenth century.
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Iam aware of that and can debate this properly. But I am not too sure you are interested in a serious discussion. Too often you walk away from these discussions when your opinions are not accepted at face value. Let me know if you're truly interested in a serious and meaningful discussion on this topic.
 
DeadBall said:
Seeing this I think the Angrez beating in Lagaan would not have been that far fetched in real life either.
Click to expand...

The club cricketers who played the Englishmen in Lagaan are better than this guy at batting.

Nostalgia is literally blinding some people in this thread.
 
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