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Realistically how big is the gap between the Indian Test team and the Pakistan Test team?

Not sure why Shreyas Iyer is not considered in tests for india. He is an extremely good player.
 
Frankly, there are very few nations playing test cricket, and just 4 Asian sides among them, and only India and Pakistan are the decent teams out there. Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are not good enough these days. I won't take Afghanistan and Nepal seriously in test cricket. So not much competition really. India only a few notches higher than Pakistan because of playing in their home conditions.
 
sharmaji said:
Frankly, there are very few nations playing test cricket, and just 4 Asian sides among them, and only India and Pakistan are the decent teams out there. Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are not good enough these days. I won't take Afghanistan and Nepal seriously in test cricket. So not much competition really. India only a few notches higher than Pakistan because of playing in their home conditions.
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Nepal don't even have test status

Afghanistan beat Bangladesh, they are a better suse then you think

Pakistan is ranked lower than SRL

All Asian sides are way behind us at the moment

That's the reality , stop sugarcoating things
 
Pakistan can always put a good team , but their selection process will be a surprise every other day...

With Misbah ul Haq now, it is worse..

With half decent team they play good cricket in short patches and bad cricket in large patches...

They are not pushovers, but certainly can play much better cricket when the team selection is based on skill and merit...
 
This gap is going to get bigger if 4-day cricket is not the priority in Pakistan.

I feel that at the moment too many players just want to focus on white-ball cricket and even some at the PCB want PSL to be the golden goose in Pakistan cricket.
 
Saj said:
This gap is going to get bigger if 4-day cricket is not the priority in Pakistan.

I feel that at the moment too many players just want to focus on white-ball cricket and even some at the PCB want PSL to be the golden goose in Pakistan cricket.
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What should be done in your view? Should the PCB declare an official policy that anyone not playing 4 day cricket in Pakistan domestic tournament will not be picked for the national side, psl and other T20 leagues?
 
Saj said:
This gap is going to get bigger if 4-day cricket is not the priority in Pakistan.

I feel that at the moment too many players just want to focus on white-ball cricket and even some at the PCB want PSL to be the golden goose in Pakistan cricket.
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Can't fault PCB here. They will try to make psl big as it will increase their revenue big time. Passion, hunger everything needed for succes has to be within individual/player.
 
The gap is very very big , I do not think Pakistan can close the gap in where in near future .
 
India can win a three match series against Pak 2-1 in any conditions. That's in T20s, ODIs and tests.
 
At the end of the day it's the sheer number of players in India. There's more disposable income and resources. Lot of kids are learning the sport seriously as there is good money even for a state player. That's even if one doesn't make the IPL cut.

Competition breeds excellence and the spots are hard to come by. The confidence, attitude come from the 'yolo' attitude of young Indians. "You only live once".
 
I don't know what happened man. From when I started watching cricket in 2009 India was only slightly better overall and even until around 2016/17 Pakistan was still competent.

Post 2017 it was been awful for Pakistan and India has surged far ahead.
 
“Realistically how big is the gap between the Indian Test team and the Pakistan Test team?”

Unrealistically big.
 
David Warner averaged 489 in the test series against Pakistan. Labu averaged close to 200.

Bowling averages of Pakistan's first choice bowlers - the best they have:
Mohammad Abbas - undefined (no wickets)
Yasir Shah - 101
Shaheen - 37
Naseem - 68
Imran Khan - 73
Musa - undefined

Now let's see how India's back up bowlers did:
Mohammad Siraj - 29
Shardul Thakur - 22
Washington Sundar - 42
Nattu - 39
Saini - 43 (injured midway)

India's backup bowlers >> Pakistan's first choice bowlers?
 
Yk313 said:
“Realistically how big is the gap between the Indian Test team and the Pakistan Test team?”

Unrealistically big.
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Frankly speaking, after this series win in Australia, it won't be fair to compare Pak's current Test team with their B Test team.
Even their B team looks to be miles ahead.
 
BreadPakoda said:
David Warner averaged 489 in the test series against Pakistan. Labu averaged close to 200.

Bowling averages of Pakistan's first choice bowlers - the best they have:
Mohammad Abbas - undefined (no wickets)
Yasir Shah - 101
Shaheen - 37
Naseem - 68
Imran Khan - 73
Musa - undefined

Now let's see how India's back up bowlers did:
Mohammad Siraj - 29
Shardul Thakur - 22
Washington Sundar - 42
Nattu - 39
Saini - 43 (injured midway)

India's backup bowlers >> Pakistan's first choice bowlers?
Click to expand...

What about Wagner and Southee?
 
To be honest, the only reason we are comparing is because of shared history and past rivalry. Quite honestly, if you take top 30 cricketers in each of the countries, the U 19 talent, there would literally no competition for India in terms of pipeline, bench strength, fitness, financial security for players.

As an Indian, I don’t feel any sense of pride in this. It is simply a result of institutions and processes that have been put in place 20 years back. The results are coming through and will continue to.

Ofcourse this doesn’t translate to world domination necessarily because the eleven have to perform on the day. But what it certainly means is that you will have a very competitive team in most conditions.

Pakistan is nowhere in sight. Still living off the past glory. But given the natural talent the country produces, it only needs right structure and lots of patience. Won’t happen overnight.
 
Talent wise not so far. Discipline, systems and process creates strong individuals. It will take time. But you never know. Pakistan is unpredictable.
 
BreadPakoda said:
David Warner averaged 489 in the test series against Pakistan. Labu averaged close to 200.

Bowling averages of Pakistan's first choice bowlers - the best they have:
Mohammad Abbas - undefined (no wickets)
Yasir Shah - 101
Shaheen - 37
Naseem - 68
Imran Khan - 73
Musa - undefined

Now let's see how India's back up bowlers did:
Mohammad Siraj - 29
Shardul Thakur - 22
Washington Sundar - 42
Nattu - 39
Saini - 43 (injured midway)

India's backup bowlers >> Pakistan's first choice bowlers?
Click to expand...

You had to run statistics to vindicate this? Don’t think there is much of a question here.

However to illustrate a point... on the note of statistics, Siraj and Bumrah averaged 29.5 and 29.4 respectively. With Thakur averaging 22.

Thakur’s 22 trumps the averages of Sharma and Shami from the previous series which did not contain Smith and Warner. There is a chance they could have averaged lower even with Smith and Warner but most likely it would have been higher. However, best not to speculate and take those figures at face value. If we take them at face value Thakur’s figures trump those of Shami and Ishant (and also trump Ashwin’s average in this series). Does that mean he would have been played over those two?
 
Yk313 said:
You had to run statistics to vindicate this? Don’t think there is much of a question here.

However to illustrate a point... on the note of statistics, Siraj and Bumrah averaged 29.5 and 29.4 respectively. With Thakur averaging 22.

Thakur’s 22 trumps the averages of Sharma and Shami from the previous series which did not contain Smith and Warner. There is a chance they could have averaged lower even with Smith and Warner but most likely it would have been higher. However, best not to speculate and take those figures at face value. If we take them at face value Thakur’s figures trump those of Shami and Ishant (and also trump Ashwin’s average in this series). Does that mean he would have been played over those two?
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I know that was a lousy use of stats. I ended it with a question, not a statement though.
 
Gigantic is the word that would accurately explain the gap.

India are the most complete team in World cricket right now
 
rhony said:
India can win a three match series against Pak 2-1 in any conditions. That's in T20s, ODIs and tests.
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Pakistan can only win one-off ODI and T20s with odds like 1 in 10. In tests Pakistan can't even compete with India C that's how big the gap actually is.

Rather tah worrying much about India Pakistan shold think about all the stuff that is wrong with our cricket and try to put in place a long term plan to atleast start on a path of improvement
 
Muhammad Kaleem said:
Batting-wise, Rizwan and Pant are more or less same. Keeping wise, Rizwan is much ahead of Pant.
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How are they the same? In the recent NZ series Rizwan had 2 similar opportunities to either save or win the match for pakistan but he failed to do so. pant played a key innings in saving the sydney test and we all know what he did at gabba.

Moreover Pant has centuries in Australia and England. At the moment Pant is a way better batsman and Rizwan a better keeper.
 
Muhammad Kaleem said:
Batting-wise, Rizwan and Pant are more or less same. Keeping wise, Rizwan is much ahead of Pant.
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Rizwan is a decent batsman but Pant is a different level. He is a Gilchrist/de Kock caliber batsman. Rizwan is not close to that category.
 
Mamoon said:
Rizwan is a decent batsman but Pant is a different level. He is a Gilchrist/de Kock caliber batsman. Rizwan is not close to that category.
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Ohh goodness... Please don't give them an idea to start a new thread

"Rishab Pant vs Muhammad Rizwan, who is better?"
 
ufcfan said:
Complete?Still we loose ICC tournies
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Tests.

Its quite pointless to combine formats. In ODIs, teams could be dominant yet lose one match and hence trophies. In T20s there is nothing as a dominant team st the outset.
 
We are good 30 years behind. Unless there is lapses in system in India and big improvements in our domestic system we will loose 95% in next 20 years.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
What nonsense lol.

So confidently wrong.



Yep....

Dharmashala...probably the paciest pitch in India was served up against Aussies. It was a decider which India won comfortably.

England pitches were flat where their pacers looked toothless while ours were uprooting trees.

Against SA, the pitches were flat but our pacers were hitting their bats with speed and venom.

These newbie posters are laughable.

It's just a chore to pick apart and destroy each of their points one by one...so it's better to ignore them. :))



Yeah...

Our pacers did well against all teams at home.

There were a few dust bowls (2015 Mohali, Nagpur....2017 Pune, maybe Bangalore) but vast majority of the pitches were flat or had something for everyone.
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Gr8 comment mate, good pickup about the Dharmshala wicket ind vs aus 2017 4th test being a bouncy wicket. I recall Matthew wade behind the sticks taking them shoulder or head high. And India won that test. That wicket for me was the template on which subcontinent wickets should be based.
It had pace and bounce for the quicks till 1.5 days, getting easy on days 2-3-3.5 and spinning from 3.5 to 5th day. The bounce was even all 5 days. I wish we would prepare more wickets like that, so that this whole perception of india preparing dust bowls and the 'lets spin to win' strategy for each and every SENA tour to india.
Having said that the wickets on india's tour to SL- 2015 also were pacy bouncy and aided spin in the latter half, so these were reall good wickets.
what it also does is if we duplicate such wickets in FC, univ/school level etc, we not only breed quicks, batsmen to face quick bowling but also good slips fielders. a
 
Shafi said:
We are good 30 years behind. Unless there is lapses in system in India and big improvements in our domestic system we will loose 95% in next 20 years.
Click to expand...

Hmm , even in the late 90's , Pakistan was probably 20 years ahead of India . But the problem is in the 20 years that followed , we travelled 20 years ahead and Pakistan 10 behind . So yeah , 30 is probably a fair estimate
 
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