What's new

[Report] M Arthur rues selfish approach of players to play for themselves rather than for the team

MenInG

PakPassion Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Runs
217,977
Lahore - Despite receiving a bashing from Australia both in Test and one-day series, Pakistan head coach believes there is a little difference between the two sides.

According to sources, in his tour report submitted to the Pakistan Cricket Board, Arthur said that there was not much difference between the top-ranked Australia and bottom-ranked Pakistan. However, the coach was not happy with the results and has advised the board to tighten the screws of the players to get better results in every format.

In his reports, Arthur held poor fitness and fielding, lack of spirit, players focus on individual performances rather than performing for team and inability to execute the plans in the field as main culprits for the defeats in Australia. The coach also rued the drop catches that cost the team and selfish approach of players to play for themselves than playing for the team. Surprisingly, the head coach showed satisfaction over fast bowlers performance during the series and wrote that the fast bowlers played their role in a better way but the lack of support from the fielders affected their performances. The head coach also showed his serious reservations over the fitness of the players. Arthur has also pointed that lack of forceful players down the order who could play big shots in the death overs was another reason for such defeats. Arthur also termed the efforts to improve fitness and fielding of players insufficient.

According to the sources, the opinion of PCB’s decision makers for the inclusion of senior players in the team has changed after receiving this report. Sources said the PCB chief wanted to induct new faces rather than trying same old players again and again.

http://nation.com.pk/sports/28-Jan-2017/arthur-sees-little-difference-between-australia-pakistan
 
exactly, thats what i said...the difference is the tightness of the bowling and confidence in the fielding...coaches are to be blamed
 
He should tell the players, one-on-one, that they will be dropped if they keep playing selfish innings instead of playing according to the teams' needs and if they don't follow the role assigned to them.
 
I remember a certain Dinesh Mongia. Although he was an extremely mediocre cricketer, I'll admit that. There was an ODI match against Australia back in 2006, where he played. And he scored 60 odd runs, where the rest of the batsman pretty much failed. He made one fatal mistake, he didn't play according to how he was asked to play by the management in that match, and his innings was perceived by the management as selfish. He was immediately dropped and never picked again.
 
If Hafeez had played like Babar did in chases, he would have been torn to shreds.. even after scoring a century..
 
Another shameless leak by the PCB

Absolute shambles.
 
Might be a leaked report, but doesn't really say much
 
So re-iterating some of what Waqar's report said re players playing for themselves. Well there is only one way to fix that...

Although didn't Micky say after the 5th odi that the team spirit was excellent? which is conflict with what the report is saying.

Agree about the leak, ridiculous by the PCB.
 
Mickey Arthur wants these same people in the team and he just said that loud to PCB. :)))

Pcb was actually thinking of bringing a young team for WI tour!!!

So, it was all hot talk by Arthur in press conferences.
 
A few innings come in mind in the odi series

Akmals 39
Maliks innings
Babar's knock


They were all selfish knocks given the circumstances.
 
Mickey Arthur wants these same people in the team and he just said that loud to PCB. :)))

Pcb was actually thinking of bringing a young team for WI tour!!!

So, it was all hot talk by Arthur in press conferences.

We dont know what the full report says.
 
If Hafeez had played like Babar did in chases, he would have been torn to shreds.. even after scoring a century..

Maybe because hafeez is a senior and babar is still a promising newbie?
 
Mohammad Hafeez in the 2nd ODI

Shoaib Malik and Umar Akmal in the 4th ODI

Babar Azam in the 3rd and 5th ODI

should top the list of players who preferred personal milestones, hampering team's chances of victory
 
I think Mickey has learned a lot of statecraft from his stint with Australia. He wants to be on the side of all the players, but is willing to let pcb or selectors make those tough calls so that he is not seen as the bad guy
 
I think Mickey has learned a lot of statecraft from his stint with Australia. He wants to be on the side of all the players, but is willing to let pcb or selectors make those tough calls so that he is not seen as the bad guy

Agree. He's yet another diplomatic guy like Whatmore and isn't going to go against his players or call for them to be dropped.

Malik and Hafeez will continue to be a part of our core because Inzi isn't dropping them either.
 
Has he said anything about his coaching?
If not, then it's a diverting the blame and no reasonable person should take this report seriously.
 
Mohammad Hafeez in the 2nd ODI

Shoaib Malik and Umar Akmal in the 4th ODI

Babar Azam in the 3rd and 5th ODI

should top the list of players who preferred personal milestones, hampering team's chances of victory

Action speak louder than words. Drop them, atleast for a match after selfish inning. And promote team players
 
Mohammad Hafeez in the 2nd ODI

Shoaib Malik and Umar Akmal in the 4th ODI

Babar Azam in the 3rd and 5th ODI

should top the list of players who preferred personal milestones, hampering team's chances of victory

Logic deserted you.
Pakistan failed to bat full 50 overs in last two matches.
So, SR is irrelevant if you cannot use your 50 overs at first place.
 
If Hafeez had played like Babar did in chases, he would have been torn to shreds.. even after scoring a century..

I agree, but Babar is young and is given more leeway but if a year down the line he was doing the same, i would be seriously worried.
 
You can sack all the coaches tomorrow and go for the top ones in the world it will make no difference. In reality 99% coaches make no difference and the 1% are difficult to find.
 
You can sack all the coaches tomorrow and go for the top ones in the world it will make no difference. In reality 99% coaches make no difference and the 1% are difficult to find.

Well yeah, but he at least can be a bit strict and take action on his "words"?!

He blames players in the press conferences, says we're too slow, yet don't want them dropped.
 
If Hafeez had played like Babar did in chases, he would have been torn to shreds.. even after scoring a century..

First ever tour to aus aged 22 average 56 @ 83 s/r what more do you want?
 
First ever tour to aus aged 22 average 56 @ 83 s/r what more do you want?
Numbers without context.

He's similar to Kane in that he's so slow to start that he puts pressure on those around him when chasing big scores (which he did twice this series).
 
Last edited:
Numbers without context.

He's similar to Kane in that he's so slow to start that he puts pressure on those around him when chasing big scores (which he did twice this series).

Agreed he did not win any match for us but which player do u remember scored so heavily in Australia in the last 20 years from Pakistan having played only 20 odis?
 
Numbers without context.

He's similar to Kane in that he's so slow to start that he puts pressure on those around him when chasing big scores (which he did twice this series).

Um. Remind me how the likes of Kohli fared against Aus in Aus in their first tour to the country? It was after 4 years of his debut yet he failed against Aus, not scoring, let alone scoring fast .

Babar can build up on sr.
 
Logic deserted you.
Pakistan failed to bat full 50 overs in last two matches.
So, SR is irrelevant if you cannot use your 50 overs at first place.

Absolutely not. 40 overs all out at 7RPO is better than 5RPO for the whole innings.

That's an obvious mathematical fact.
 
Times and times I will continue to shout,,that hundred from Babar was selfish I hate such type of cricketers
 
Um. Remind me how the likes of Kohli fared against Aus in Aus in their first tour to the country? It was after 4 years of his debut yet he failed against Aus, not scoring, let alone scoring fast .

Babar can build up on sr.
This isn't about Kohli.

Babar will improve no doubt but it's silly to deny two of the innings he played on tour (when chasing big) were selfish and only hurt Pakistan's chances of winning.
 
Agreed he did not win any match for us but which player do u remember scored so heavily in Australia in the last 20 years from Pakistan having played only 20 odis?
Babar has had a good start to his career, but it is foolish to get ahead of ourselves here. His limited gears may result in him becoming a liability when Pakistan are chasing big scores. He is in the Kane mold in that he's invaluable when chasing scores of under ~320, but the difference between Kane and Babar is that NZ have more reliable hitters who can make up for Kane's slow scoring. Pakistan do not, so scores of 320+ are almost impossible for Pakistan to chase unless everything clicks.
 
Logic deserted you.
Pakistan failed to bat full 50 overs in last two matches.
So, SR is irrelevant if you cannot use your 50 overs at first place.

That is more due to lack of power hitters in our lineup, and those getting our eye in failing to capitalize on their starts, maintaining a slow SR throughout their knock
 
Times and times I will continue to shout,,that hundred from Babar was selfish I hate such type of cricketers

The guy gets out right after punching in the air celebrating his 100.. of a 109 balls.. the next ball he scoops it and gets out..
 
Babar has had a good start to his career, but it is foolish to get ahead of ourselves here. His limited gears may result in him becoming a liability when Pakistan are chasing big scores. He is in the Kane mold in that he's invaluable when chasing scores of under ~320, but the difference between Kane and Babar is that NZ have more reliable hitters who can make up for Kane's slow scoring. Pakistan do not, so scores of 320+ are almost impossible for Pakistan to chase unless everything clicks.
To add to this, if Sharjeel hadn't clicked, Pakistan wouldn't have gotten close to 300. They would have crumbled around the scoreboard pressure. It was similar to Anderson saving us against Bangladesh after Kane's horrible 50.
 
Last edited:
Um. Remind me how the likes of Kohli fared against Aus in Aus in their first tour to the country? It was after 4 years of his debut yet he failed against Aus, not scoring, let alone scoring fast .

Babar can build up on sr.

Babar is not a novice bro, he is in his second year of International cricket, has played almost 25 ODIs, 6 test matches, and been a part of the t20 squad.. not to mention he has been playing for Pakistan A as well.

People start to figure you out as a batsman after the starting period... and there are some Shehzad type traits in BA, this knocking the ball straight to the fielder... not able to find gaps etc
 
That is more due to lack of power hitters in our lineup, and those getting our eye in failing to capitalize on their starts, maintaining a slow SR throughout their knock

How power hitters would allow us to play fifty overs when without them we are getting out in 44th overs?
 
YK and Babur play for self glory.


Easy metric to see if players get out in 40s or in 50s ( or just after hitting any personal mile stone)

Team player never considers mile stone important and that's the reason we see so many time malik got out in 40s, where he could easily reach fifty with few safe shots.but that would have been selfish.
 
This isn't about Kohli.

Babar will improve no doubt but it's silly to deny two of the innings he played on tour (when chasing big) were selfish and only hurt Pakistan's chances of winning.

What chances of winning our lower order is rubbish and even if babar bats at sharjeel pace we would have still lost those games.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It shouldn't come as a surprise that the reports are leaked to the media since you have media personnel running the show at PCB.

That being said, Mickey is right on the money.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Babar is not a novice bro, he is in his second year of International cricket, has played almost 25 ODIs, 6 test matches, and been a part of the t20 squad.. not to mention he has been playing for Pakistan A as well.

People start to figure you out as a batsman after the starting period... and there are some Shehzad type traits in BA, this knocking the ball straight to the fielder... not able to find gaps etc
Babar played with impetus but he was getting out on pretty 30's and 40's with this approach he is getting bigger scores there is always a space for an accumalator in the side as long as he can go big, if Babar can consistently get 80's and 100's then nothing wrong with his approach not every one has to be a basher.
 
Babar played with impetus but he was getting out on pretty 30's and 40's with this approach he is getting bigger scores there is always a space for an accumalator in the side as long as he can go big, if Babar can consistently get 80's and 100's then nothing wrong with his approach not every one has to be a basher.

There's no place for an accumulator in the side specially when there are 6 more in the same lineup..
 
How power hitters would allow us to play fifty overs when without them we are getting out in 44th overs?

Because in a normal scenario.. they know how to 'finish' an innings, thats how International teams bat these days..

Right now that part of their batting is lost upon to all of them... from no.1 to no.7.. don't know how to carry on after the targeted scores they want to acheive for themselves, and not for the team
 
Compare this to India/Australia.. one batsman finds his feet, carries on till the end, finishes the game off..

whether they are 73/4, for 273/4, the result is in the betterment of the team [MENTION=42489]Black Zero[/MENTION]
 
There's no place for an accumulator in the side specially when there are 6 more in the same lineup..

Yes then remove the one that consistently scores great logic the others dont look selfish because they dont bat long enough.Babar is least of our worries the key is to find impact players who can bat around him not remove the only guy who can keep the innings together.
 
The guy gets out right after punching in the air celebrating his 100.. of a 109 balls.. the next ball he scoops it and gets out..

Exactly my friend you're correct and some people are praising his 100 how selfish can one be??? Pakistan got good start sharjeel was was fluent and then Babar came started tuk tuk built pressure on shrjeel how can one start with a strike rate of 60 chasing 370?
 
He should tell the players, one-on-one, that they will be dropped if they keep playing selfish innings instead of playing according to the teams' needs and if they don't follow the role assigned to them.

Whats the point of saying these things when he does not have the power to take these decisions and the players know it?
 
Yes then remove the one that consistently scores great logic the others dont look selfish because they dont bat long enough.Babar is least of our worries the key is to find impact players who can bat around him not remove the only guy who can keep the innings together.

When did I say he needs to be removed? We are here criticizing the performance of the player, for not playing like they wanted to win the match... I didn't single out Babar only, I have mentioned others as well..

Hafeez played a selfish knock of 70 in the 2nd ODI to save his position in the team... making use of the less run rate required to chase 220 down..

Malik in 4th ODI, where all he was worried about was to accumulate his 40 odd... and Akmal playing with a strike rate of 44 after that... chasing 340 odd..
 
Nothing selfish about it. Apart from sharjeel no 1 in this team can hit big or play at a sr of 125 plus.

Babar, azhar, hafeez , malik etc etc. You play them you will get these results.

Drop hafeez azhar and malik. Bring in younget guys for starters.
 
Um. Remind me how the likes of Kohli fared against Aus in Aus in their first tour to the country? It was after 4 years of his debut yet he failed against Aus, not scoring, let alone scoring fast .

Babar can build up on sr.

Doesn't mean Babar didn't do badly. If Kohli did bad that doesn't give Babar an excuse to do bad either.

Why do we have to start comparing him to other players to defend him when we've seen in this whole series, he doesn't start out as a "Modern one day player". He plays 1990 innings but no one sees it when he does.
 
Doesn't mean Babar didn't do badly. If Kohli did bad that doesn't give Babar an excuse to do bad either.

Why do we have to start comparing him to other players to defend him when we've seen in this whole series, he doesn't start out as a "Modern one day player". He plays 1990 innings but no one sees it when he does.
Cant believe the expectations. Its mind boggling that some people are calling his performance as downright bad. He did very well for his FIRST tour to Australia.
 
Absolutely not. 40 overs all out at 7RPO is better than 5RPO for the whole innings.

That's an obvious mathematical fact.


RR of 5.7 in 50 overs beats RR of 7 in 40 overs and it's much easy to score at 5.7 than at 7.

It would be idiotic to score at RR OF 7 and then get out in 40 overs cause its a 50 over match and one can always accerlate the RR near the end of innings as after 50 overs, wickets become worthless.


Overs are the vital resources, wasting them is just stupid.
 
Compare this to India/Australia.. one batsman finds his feet, carries on till the end, finishes the game off..

whether they are 73/4, for 273/4, the result is in the betterment of the team [MENTION=42489]Black Zero[/MENTION]

QQ: How many times Australia failed to bat 50 overs?
 
Micky has learnt quite a lot. He is now a very diplomatic person. He won't held any one responsible directly. He will try to keep a balance on things. I'm missing those days of Waqar Younis reports which was always very spicy. He always used to blame Akmals, Shehzad & Afridi for teams dismissal performance. In the end He proved to be a mediocre coach even without those 3 culprits pak team performance remained poor
 
Last edited:
There's no place for an accumulator in the side specially when there are 6 more in the same lineup..

Every side has a place for its best player.

Pakistan's problem is not merely that there are too many accumulators. Or left arm bowlers,
or what have you. It is that there are mediocre accumulators. Mediocre left armers.

An 'accumulator' who just broke into the top 10 in ODI rankings and scored 100 off 109 in
Aus gets to play. The other 6 are the ones who should be worried.
 
Mohammad Hafeez in the 2nd ODI

Shoaib Malik and Umar Akmal in the 4th ODI

Babar Azam in the 3rd and 5th ODI

should top the list of players who preferred personal milestones, hampering team's chances of victory

I don't think same about Babar. His approach towards game has been same even vs WI . His strike operates around 70 for first 30 - 45 runs in all his innings.
 
I remember a certain Dinesh Mongia. Although he was an extremely mediocre cricketer, I'll admit that. There was an ODI match against Australia back in 2006, where he played. And he scored 60 odd runs, where the rest of the batsman pretty much failed. He made one fatal mistake, he didn't play according to how he was asked to play by the management in that match, and his innings was perceived by the management as selfish. He was immediately dropped and never picked again.

I saw that game but, now that I have checked CI, hence can recall the details.

That was played on a shocker of a wicket where AUS defended 213 for a 18 run win, with almost 7 overs left. What Mongia did was that, he played for his own score & exposed tail to Lee who knocked 5 in that innings. It was quite possible that had Mongia protected the tail; IND could have won the match as AUS was running out of key overs & asking was less than 3.

I think, after that, Mongia played few matches, but he was dropped for good after the report of Greg. There is the biggest issue - Greg had every bit of problem with Indian players & BCCI - but, he was not a tool & his recommendations were valued; may be BCCI changed the person, but not the ideas of one the the greatest ever.

Here things'll be opposite - people from vested interest will justify Azhar, Asad, Malik, Umar & MoHa's batting bringing comparison to Babar & that'll be sold as well - because that keeps their trophy in the squad.

It's difficult but possible to make someone understand a trick - if he doesn't know it. But, it's impossible to explain something if someone does know that but pretend otherwise. Inzi has played 20+ years at highest level with the best players/captains - he knows every word that we discuss here better than anyone of us - but he'll understand only those that keeps MoHa, Malik, Wahab ........... in place.

With his revised action, I have seen MoHa's bowling - then Smith categorically showed his batting worth by bringing a 2nd slip in 30th over of a high scoring ODI & got him caught there in 5 balls - still we hear that MoHa is the Gary Sobers of Pakistan. In any proper cricket system - MoHa would have retired after what Smith showed us putting finger in the eyes.

These reports are only for Mickey for a better bargain, eventually when he leaves PCB - the truth is that MoHa, Malik will keep their spot in the team for experience & MoHa'll open & lead the side after Azhar.
 
First ever tour to aus aged 22 average 56 @ 83 s/r what more do you want?

Babar cost Pakistan 2 ODIs with his selfish batting. Fact. What is the point of having your good personal stats if it is costing your team a win.
 
Every side has a place for its best player.

Pakistan's problem is not merely that there are too many accumulators. Or left arm bowlers,
or what have you. It is that there are mediocre accumulators. Mediocre left armers.

An 'accumulator' who just broke into the top 10 in ODI rankings and scored 100 off 109 in
Aus gets to play. The other 6 are the ones who should be worried.

Strike rate of 60 is not good enough
 
Babar cost Pakistan 2 ODIs with his selfish batting. Fact. What is the point of having your good personal stats if it is costing your team a win.

i would include hafeez, malik and akmal as well. all three of them played more than 100 matches and still couldn't finish the game.
 
If arguably the best new batsman in Pakistan's lineup (Babar) is going to get this sort of nonsense blaming, then maybe we don't deserve good players.

Also I don't recall Waqar, Wasim, and Akthar being humble guys. They had attitudes and personal ambitions; aggression for self attainment can sometimes be good for team glory too.
 
I will make it simple.

Mickey Arthur's coaching views are 100 years advanced to our cricket. He cant change us at all.
Though he is the man we need, but its impossible that one man could change the thinking of our whole cricket set up.

I feel sorry for this guy, while he has been the best candidate to root out our problems, he will at the end be leaving without being able to make any change, because we are dheet
 
Babar cost Pakistan 2 ODIs with his selfish batting. Fact. What is the point of having your good personal stats if it is costing your team a win.

What is the point of arguing facts with someone who doesn't know what they are?

He was the only batsman in the team? When he scored 100 off 109, the others were doing what?
 
I think, in any ODI team, if a top 3 scores 282 @ 56/83 stats, he is doing absolutely perfect. If everyone goes for 30/100 sort of stats, don't think team can win more than T20 length matches.

Don't think Babar could have played any better role than this at No. 3. His batting didn't cost PAK anything compared to the fielding which actually made the target at least 15% higher in last 2 ODI. Babar failed to post a big total in 1st ODI - PAK failed by almost 100 runs chasing 267; which should be indicative enough.

If I am to grade PAK players in this series, my rank will be

Sharjeel : A+
Azhar : F
Babar : A
MoHa : B-
Mian : C+
Umar : C
Rizwan : B-
Imad : B+
Amir : B+
JK : B
Hasan : B
Wahab : B-
Asad : F
Nawaz : D

So, I think Babar was the 2nd best player for PAK in this series.
 
100 off 109 is plenty good enough.

You need a few power hitters playing around him. Not six other batsman who can't score big, let alone fast.

They're the best you have, upcoming lot doesn't have one power hitter in them.. PSL couldn't produce one power hitter besides Sharjeel from the top order..

Akmal was the best power hitter in the whole PSL..

Sohaib Maqsood was tried for 2 years, his power hitting is as unpredictable as they come..

But when they come to the side, all they worry about is scoring their runs..
 
Hilarious to see people bashing Babar. Lack of a good hitter in the middle order and awful fielding and captaincy were the reasons for this performance. Babar and Sharjeel were both quality.
 
Also [MENTION=139754]New Yorker[/MENTION] . if you consider the required run rate when Babar and Sharjeel were batting.. it was around 8... with Babar playing 4 dot balls per over then taking a single on the 5th ball..

After Sharjeel was gone required RR was 9

By the time Babar reached his 50 the RR was around 10... fielders at the boundary, Babar unconcerned about his strike rate... reaching his 50 in 75 balls which is SR of 66, milking his singles

Smith was smart he allowed easy singles as long as the boundary didn't come... Babar obliged, only hitting 3 4's and a six in his 80 odd.. scoring singles not taking the initiative at all

Only before reaching his 100, he scored 3 boundaries, reached his 100, but got out the next ball... that's not taking an initiative, that is being selfish..

The game was well and truly done, when Babar had reached his 50, and the RR had gone upto 10..
 
Wait can someone explain the last paragraph to me?

Did the PCB's opinion change in the sense that it is now willing to have seniors i.e. Misbah continue, or is it now more towards inducting youngsters (after receiving the report)?
 
I think, in any ODI team, if a top 3 scores 282 @ 56/83 stats, he is doing absolutely perfect. If everyone goes for 30/100 sort of stats, don't think team can win more than T20 length matches.

Don't think Babar could have played any better role than this at No. 3. His batting didn't cost PAK anything compared to the fielding which actually made the target at least 15% higher in last 2 ODI. Babar failed to post a big total in 1st ODI - PAK failed by almost 100 runs chasing 267; which should be indicative enough.

If I am to grade PAK players in this series, my rank will be

Sharjeel : A+
Azhar : F
Babar : A
MoHa : B-
Mian : C+
Umar : C
Rizwan : B-
Imad : B+
Amir : B+
JK : B
Hasan : B
Wahab : B-
Asad : F
Nawaz : D

So, I think Babar was the 2nd best player for PAK in this series.

Mian played poorly in the 4th game but had a much better series than Rizwan and Imad and probably Umar too.
 
Wait can someone explain the last paragraph to me?

Did the PCB's opinion change in the sense that it is now willing to have seniors i.e. Misbah continue, or is it now more towards inducting youngsters (after receiving the report)?

Hard to say without reading the report but I think the PCB is forced to go back to the seniors on the basis of Mickey's discussion and was originally planning on inducting youngsters for the WI tour beforehand.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree 100 percent on this.. I felt the same.. look how rizwan was playing..in last two overs he didn't tried to slog even once.. I was really disgusted with that . Babar Azam , Malik never felt like chasing the target.. personal milestones aren't that important.. you have to play for the team. Azhar isn't required. Bring one fast all-rounder.. make sarfi captain.. make some strategies... have a plan .. don't embarrass us ... enough now!!
 
Back
Top