Royal descendants can keep temple full of riches, rules Indian Supreme Court

[MenInG]

A former royal family can continue to run a temple in India that is one of the world's richest places of worship, the country's Supreme Court has ruled.

After the family patriarch died, the Kerala state government tried to take over the Sri Padmanabhaswamy Temple.

Kerala's High Court ruled in the government's favour, a decision now reversed by the Supreme Court.

When one of the temple's vaults was opened in 2011, it was found to contain riches worth more than $20bn (£16bn).

This included sacks full of diamonds, gold coins and jewellery.

The Hindu temple, which is in Kerala's capital city Thiruvananthapuram, contains another vault that is yet to be opened. The Travancore family argues that opening it will unleash a mythical curse on the state.

But there have been allegations that some of the temple's treasures have disappeared, including a centuries-old flute made out of ivory.

The High Court ruling in 2011 came after the death of the last ruling Maharaja of Travancore, Sri Chithira Thirunal Balarama Varma, in 1991.

Reversing this decision on Monday, Supreme Court justices U U Lalit and Indu Malhotra said: "We allow the appeal of the royal family of Travancore. Death does not effect Shebaitship [management and maintenance of religious deities] of the Travancore Family."

The court added that a new committee set up by the Travancore family to run the temple would have the right to decide what to do with the temple's wealth, including the contents of the unopened vault.

Gauri Lakshmi Bai, a member of the family, told reporters: "A large number of devotees had prayed for us. The judgement is their victory."

 

[cricketjoshila]

Good. The govt has no job taking over hindu temples and their treasures. Successive govts in Kerala have taken over different temples and taken their funds to be kept in the state treasury account. This money doesn't belong to the state. It belongs to the deity.

About time supreme court over turns laws that have allowed state governments to take over hindu temples and their funds.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

The Travancore family argues that opening it will unleash a mythical curse on the state.

Some say the curse causes sudden death to religious scams across India...

 

[Slog]

Good. The govt has no job taking over hindu temples and their treasures. Successive govts in Kerala have taken over different temples and taken their funds to be kept in the state treasury account. This money doesn't belong to the state. It belongs to the deity.

About time supreme court over turns laws that have allowed state governments to take over hindu temples and their funds.

How do these temples have this much money? Does it like go anywhere as in distributed among the needy? Or is this money/assets accumulating in temple till end of time?

I am guessing money is collected through donations or chanda as we call it. Is it meant for upkeep of temple or just supposed to stay there? Or given to needy? Who controls it

Just curious as I’ve heard about this much wealth in temples but never read anything detailed

 

[Bigboii]

Reason why Gauri and afghans sacked Hindu temples
It was no jihad or any hatred for hindus
They just wanted that sweet gold

 

[cricketjoshila]

How do these temples have this much money? Does it like go anywhere as in distributed among the needy? Or is this money/assets accumulating in temple till end of time?

I am guessing money is collected through donations or chanda as we call it. Is it meant for upkeep of temple or just supposed to stay there? Or given to needy? Who controls it

Just curious as I’ve heard about this much wealth in temples but never read anything detailed

Most of these temples are centuries old, the treasure their is the donations offered by the devotees.

They are used for upkeep of the temple, paying salaries, charity work, feeding of the poor.

In addition to these treasures most ancient temples have acres of land.

Giving donation in the temple Hundi is an essential part of the worship.

Essentially it should be controlled by the temple, the ancient hereditary servitors. But govt in some states have taken over the temples and using the funds for purposes that would otherwise entail use of state funds. Cases are pending in courts against govt take over of the temples and use of the funds.

There is a huge issue at the Tirupati temple, considered to be as rich as the padmanabhswamy temple, govts started appointing non hindus to the temple administration. In some cases the Admin controlled by the state made huge donations to the state fund etc etc.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Some say the curse causes sudden death to religious scams across India...

Why dont you explain this.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Reason why Gauri and afghans sacked Hindu temples
It was no jihad or any hatred for hindus
They just wanted that sweet gold

Ofcourse the looters and plunderers wanted the gold, thats why hardly any ancient temple survives in north india. Most were rebuilt in last 200 odd years when Marathas stopped the domination of muslims in northern india.

Since muslim invaders were not that powerful in the south, the ancient temples there have survived.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The supreme court is not doing any favour to the royal family by allowing them to control the Temple. It was theirs to begin with.

Travancore had declared independence and was welcomed by Q-e-A, but the king was forced to sign the instrument of accession because communists had tried to assassinate the diwan of the state. The keralites could have had a great future if they stayed independent, but now have to call themselves indians.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The gold should belong to the people of the state. That "royal family" must think that people of Kerala are suckers if they believe that they will fall for the "opening it will unleash a mythical curse on the state" excuse.

 

[SensiblePakFan]

Rightfully so, Government would just "redistribute it' amongst themselves.

 

[cricketjoshila]

The gold should belong to the people of the state. That "royal family" must think that people of Kerala are suckers if they believe that they will fall for the "opening it will unleash a mythical curse on the state" excuse.

No the gold doesn't belong to people of the state. Hindus donated it to their deity and the temple, it belongs to the deity and the temple. Not to the people of the state.

Why should the Vault B be opened if temple traditions forbid it?

Already the rest 5 vaults have revealed $20bn worth of treasure and devotees still donate in millions. So running the temple isnt going to be an issue.

 

[Slog]

No the gold doesn't belong to people of the state. Hindus donated it to their deity and the temple, it belongs to the deity and the temple. Not to the people of the state.

Why should the Vault B be opened if temple traditions forbid it?

Already the rest 5 vaults have revealed $20bn worth of treasure and devotees still donate in millions. So running the temple isnt going to be an issue.

Who audits? For example what is stopping the ‘royal’ family from stealing money and using for personal use?

If $20bn money then why does it even need more donations? I’m sure should be enough for few years

 

[King_Kohli]

Good decision.
Otherwise our politicians loot everything.

 

[Local.Dada]

Who audits? For example what is stopping the ‘royal’ family from stealing money and using for personal use?

If $20bn money then why does it even need more donations? I’m sure should be enough for few years

That’s a dumb question. Religious organizations in any country are considered as NPO’s/ Charitable organizations outside of the IRS jurisdiction.

An NPO can have 1rupee or 20B $$$,there isn’t a limit.

Now sure, if there is a doubt that these funds are being put to use for anti-national or anti-social activities then that becomes the governments business.

It works the same way in every secular country be it India or USA. May be works differently in Pakistan.

In India outside of Hindu Temples every other religious trust is privately held and run by their own board. In fact Temples having a lot of money has been one of the reasons why governments have held on to them. That’s going be another debate for another time and a case has been ongoing to privatize even Hindu temples. We can revisit that but hope that answered your question.

 

[KingKhanWC]

$20 billion can change the lives of millions of poor people in India.

Strange a temple which takes donations to help the poor would store so much wealth. Shouldnt they be selling these and helping the poor?

 

[Local.Dada]

$20 billion can change the lives of millions of poor people in India.

Strange a temple which takes donations to help the poor would store so much wealth. Shouldnt they be selling these and helping the poor?

Why do Madrasas focus on religious education using the funding when they could be producing scientists and Engineers in schools as there is a lot of illiteracy in subcontinent?

Forget about the SC, I see the economic situation of Muslims in England is not that great either, they could use real college education and life skills with al that funding, don’t you think?

 

[Slog]

That’s a dumb question. Religious organizations in any country are considered as NPO’s/ Charitable organizations outside of the IRS jurisdiction.

An NPO can have 1rupee or 20B $$$,there isn’t a limit.

Now sure, if there is a doubt that these funds are being put to use for anti-national or anti-social activities then that becomes the governments business.

It works the same way in every secular country be it India or USA. May be works differently in Pakistan.

In India outside of Hindu Temples every other religious trust is privately held and run by their own board. In fact Temples having a lot of money has been one of the reasons why governments have held on to them. That’s going be another debate for another time and a case has been ongoing to privatize even Hindu temples. We can revisit that but hope that answered your question.

Firstly I don’t know what’s dumb about the question unless you think expertise on religious and charity organizations tax audit is everyone’s thing. If it was mine wouldn’t need to ask the question. You seem to be getting too defensive for no reason.

Anyways since you mentioned IRS; I did a bit of research. First, off the bat; a comparison between India and the US on this matter along (along with many other matters) is a bit stupid considering the tax law codes are very different and the common law followed is not same.

Secondly, charity and religious organizations in the US can be charged under several cases at both federal and state level. For example, if the said organization is collecting charitable donations (as in this case) most state laws require an submission of audited financial statements. At federal level if annual expenditure goes over a certain limit (which again would have been if this case was in the US) that would call for an independent audit.

The requirements for triggering an audit are many and it is not beyond realms of imagination that it would have been triggered in this case.

So it is a very fair question to ask.

 

[gani999]

$20 billion can change the lives of millions of poor people in India.

Strange a temple which takes donations to help the poor would store so much wealth. Shouldnt they be selling these and helping the poor?

Most people associated with and running temples in India are from the poorer sections of the society. Directly or indirectly, these temples provide livelihood to millions of India's poor.

The money generated in the form of donations is mostly used for paying salaries, taxes and for the upkeep of the temples. Some rich temples even run schools, colleges and hospitals.

And a lot of the wealth these temples have is in the form of jewelry, much of which is donated either by wealthy Indians, or in the case of ancient temples, by the kings of yore who built and funded them.

 

[Bigboii]

Why do Madrasas focus on religious education using the funding when they could be producing scientists and Engineers in schools as there is a lot of illiteracy in subcontinent?

Forget about the SC, I see the economic situation of Muslims in England is not that great either, they could use real college education and life skills with al that funding, don’t you think?

Madrasas can't even think of that kind of money they're barely paying for themselves most of the of the mullahs have real bad offices and eat paani waala shorba with roti

Seriously Madrasas are not that rich and if they were it would have been the biggest scandal in God knows how many years

So no his question was not stupid but you got real defensive for no reason imo

 

[Bigboii]

Most people associated with and running temples in India are from the poorer sections of the society. Directly or indirectly, these temples provide livelihood to millions of India's poor.

The money generated in the form of donations is mostly used for paying salaries, taxes and for the upkeep of the temples. Some rich temples even run schools, colleges and hospitals.

And a lot of the wealth these temples have is in the form of jewelry, much of which is donated either by wealthy Indians, or in the case of ancient temples, by the kings of yore who built and funded them.

That's how you answer question local dada instead of deflecting the question by what about this and that it's annoying ah

 

[KingKhanWC]

Most people associated with and running temples in India are from the poorer sections of the society. Directly or indirectly, these temples provide livelihood to millions of India's poor.

The money generated in the form of donations is mostly used for paying salaries, taxes and for the upkeep of the temples. Some rich temples even run schools, colleges and hospitals.

And a lot of the wealth these temples have is in the form of jewelry, much of which is donated either by wealthy Indians, or in the case of ancient temples, by the kings of yore who built and funded them.

I get this.

My question is why have these donations worth $20 billion not converted into currency and given to the poor? Will they now use ALL this money for the poor? If not , why not?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Who audits? For example what is stopping the ‘royal’ family from stealing money and using for personal use?

If $20bn money then why does it even need more donations? I’m sure should be enough for few years

Giving donation is part of worship in hindus.

The district magistrate is part of the administration so he knows when the money is used.

 

[cricketjoshila]

$20 billion can change the lives of millions of poor people in India.

Strange a temple which takes donations to help the poor would store so much wealth. Shouldnt they be selling these and helping the poor?

Temples dont take donation to help the poor.

Offerings are made to the deity, offerings can be money gold etc as well.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I get this.

My question is why have these donations worth $20 billion not converted into currency and given to the poor? Will they now use ALL this money for the poor? If not , why not?

Which part of the money belongs to deity and its his property is not understandable?

It is believed that a devotee offers the offering to the deity as per his capacity .

Taking that money is sin.

 

[Zaz]

Surely that amount of money can be put to better use than being locked up in a vault in a temple?

Think for example the number of rural latrines that can be built in india stopping public defactation

Money hidden away is no good whilst the majority of the countries people are living a miserable pitiful existence

 

[BreadPakoda]

Gold stacked in temples is actually a big problem in India and a reason why it had a large CAD.

 

[pillionrider]

Basically some king in times of distress would have used a temple to hide his vast wealth. Nice foolproof locker to hide your money.

It is obscene that we still believe our deities need our wealth while they stand by and casually gaze at another set of their worshipers who are beggars or lower.

Most people associated with and running temples in India are from the poorer sections of the society. Directly or indirectly, these temples provide livelihood to millions of India's poor.

The money generated in the form of donations is mostly used for paying salaries, taxes and for the upkeep of the temples. Some rich temples even run schools, colleges and hospitals.

And a lot of the wealth these temples have is in the form of jewelry, much of which is donated either by wealthy Indians, or in the case of ancient temples, by the kings of yore who built and funded them.

So much pride.

Too bad Tirupati didn't have it in their rich hearts to pay their workers when the Corona lockdowns started and were ready to lay off all those thousands and leave them to the vagaries of the weather and whatnot.

Keep hoarding wealth in the name of God because there are millions who feel a reflected sense of glory and pride.

 

[MP2011]

Too bad Tirupati didn't have it in their rich hearts to pay their workers when the Corona lockdowns started and were ready to lay off all those thousands and leave them to the vagaries of the weather and whatnot.

Keep hoarding wealth in the name of God because there are millions who feel a reflected sense of glory and pride.

This is true. Tirupati, despite having 1500 crores in its coffers, expressed its inability to pay its workers during the lockdown, citing donations being totally drying during the period. So much so for this unaccounted wealth being used for paying it's poor workers their salaries.

 

[MP2011]

Keep hoarding wealth in the name of God because there are millions who feel a reflected sense of glory and pride.

I think such people should watch the movie Oh my God, starring Akshay Kumar and Paresh Rawal (ironic isn't it). Just loved this movie.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I think such people should watch the movie Oh my God, starring Akshay Kumar and Paresh Rawal (ironic isn't it). Just loved this movie.

Those who don't believe in god are free not to donate to religious institutions and free to do charity if they want. Those who believe in god are free likewise.

I hope you spend your savings on helping the poor and don't stop at just watching some bollywood movie.

 

[CricketCartoons]

To support a cause financially, if there are three options:

1. Help the victim directly
2. Donate to an NGO working on the cause
3. A movie made on that cause

The woke psuedo liberals will support it by watching the movie.

 

[gani999]

I get this.

My question is why have these donations worth $20 billion not converted into currency and given to the poor? Will they now use ALL this money for the poor? If not , why not?

The $ 20 billion is mostly in the form of jewelry, as I mentioned before. These are kept as assets which can be converted to cash in times of need.
As for donations, a lot of it does reach the poor. It is mainly the poor sections who work in the temples and who are benefited by the donations. Rich Indians hardly ever take up work in temples.

One cannot convert all the assets and distribute the money among the poor. Doing so would only increase poverty. It is more important to utilise the assets to provide for sustainable wealth creation.

 

[gani999]

Basically some king in times of distress would have used a temple to hide his vast wealth. Nice foolproof locker to hide your money.

It is obscene that we still believe our deities need our wealth while they stand by and casually gaze at another set of their worshipers who are beggars or lower.




So much pride.

Too bad Tirupati didn't have it in their rich hearts to pay their workers when the Corona lockdowns started and were ready to lay off all those thousands and leave them to the vagaries of the weather and whatnot.

Keep hoarding wealth in the name of God because there are millions who feel a reflected sense of glory and pride.

FYI, the Tirupati temple is one of the biggest taxpayers in India and is almost entirely controlled by the Andhra politicians, who are busy using the money to line their pockets. There was an incident recently in which one of the priests spoke up against the corruption and was threatened by the CM's goons.

It is not Tirupati''s fault if your politicians don't use India's wealth to help its people. Please take your mewling elsewhere.

 

[pillionrider]

There was an incident recently in which one of the priests spoke up against the corruption and was threatened by the CM's goons.

Oh that Christian guy. Makes sense

Please take your mewling elsewhere.

I didn't do a good job at GRE word lists. So thanks for teaching me a mew word

 

[pillionrider]

I think such people should watch the movie Oh my God, starring Akshay Kumar and Paresh Rawal (ironic isn't it). Just loved this movie.

For some reason haven't gotten around to watching it, though I've heard it come up so many times. Strange, given I've enjoyed whatever I've seen of Paresh Rawal. He was hilarious as the lawyer in that Priyanka Chopra remake of Disclosure.

 

[MP2011]

For some reason haven't gotten around to watching it, though I've heard it come up so many times. Strange, given I've enjoyed whatever I've seen of Paresh Rawal. He was hilarious as the lawyer in that Priyanka Chopra remake of Disclosure.

You should watch it. As for Paresh Rawal, tremendous actor.

 

[gani999]

Oh that Christian guy. Makes sense

Now, now ...

By most accounts the Christian guy is a lot better than his very Hindu predecessor. The priest was threatened by Chandrababu Naidu's men.

But when have looters known any religion anyway? Won't be long before the Christian guy's followers join the party.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Most of these temples are centuries old, the treasure their is the donations offered by the devotees.

They are used for upkeep of the temple, paying salaries, charity work, feeding of the poor.

In addition to these treasures most ancient temples have acres of land.

Giving donation in the temple Hundi is an essential part of the worship.

Essentially it should be controlled by the temple, the ancient hereditary servitors. But govt in some states have taken over the temples and using the funds for purposes that would otherwise entail use of state funds. Cases are pending in courts against govt take over of the temples and use of the funds.

There is a huge issue at the Tirupati temple, considered to be as rich as the padmanabhswamy temple, govts started appointing non hindus to the temple administration. In some cases the Admin controlled by the state made huge donations to the state fund etc etc.

Not just common devotees. Powerful vaishnavite monarchs like those from the vijayanagara kingdom have donated to this temple.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Who audits? For example what is stopping the ‘royal’ family from stealing money and using for personal use?

If $20bn money then why does it even need more donations? I’m sure should be enough for few years

I'm related to that royal family and i can tell you personally that the royal family hasn't touched that wealth ever. Anybody trying to steal it would have been punished severely. There is a famous story when gandhi met the travancore princess and was stunned by the simplicity of her attire and had no jewels etc. They had many faults as with most monarchs and had their own prejudices etc. but they took their role as protecters of the deity and it's wealth exceptionally seriously

 

[CricketCartoons]

I'm related to that royal family and i can tell you personally that the royal family hasn't touched that wealth ever. Anybody trying to steal it would have been punished severely. There is a famous story when gandhi met the travancore princess and was stunned by the simplicity of her attire and had no jewels etc. They had many faults as with most monarchs and had their own prejudices etc. but they took their role as protecters of the deity and it's wealth exceptionally seriously

Don't you regret the Tranvancore King signing the instrument of accession with India. The state of Travancore was developed on most indices even back then and had its own navy. I think the commies forced him to merge with india.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Basically some king in times of distress would have used a temple to hide his vast wealth. Nice foolproof locker to hide your money.

It is obscene that we still believe our deities need our wealth while they stand by and casually gaze at another set of their worshipers who are beggars or lower.




So much pride.

Too bad Tirupati didn't have it in their rich hearts to pay their workers when the Corona lockdowns started and were ready to lay off all those thousands and leave them to the vagaries of the weather and whatnot.

Keep hoarding wealth in the name of God because there are millions who feel a reflected sense of glory and pride.

Its not your money. Its not taxpayers money. Its the money of the deity and the temple. Donated by devotees.

It will be spent as per temple works.

Tirupati has been taken over by TTD and and run by the govt. So much so that they dared hiring non hindus for the temple jobs. As if this was govt money.

Tirupati paid all its workers their salaries.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/zeen...salaries-calls-it-false-news-2285158.html/amp

Its only time before hindu temples are snatched away from the hands of the govt.

 

[cricketjoshila]

FYI, the Tirupati temple is one of the biggest taxpayers in India and is almost entirely controlled by the Andhra politicians, who are busy using the money to line their pockets. There was an incident recently in which one of the priests spoke up against the corruption and was threatened by the CM's goons.

It is not Tirupati''s fault if your politicians don't use India's wealth to help its people. Please take your mewling elsewhere.

Temples pay taxes. But non hindu places of worship dont.

Wakf and Church are some of the biggest land holders in India.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Don't you regret the Tranvancore King signing the instrument of accession with India. The state of Travancore was developed on most indices even back then and had its own navy. I think the commies forced him to merge with india.

No I don't.

 

[pillionrider]

Tirupati paid all its workers their salaries.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/zeen...salaries-calls-it-false-news-2285158.html/amp

Quotes fake news source to debunk allegedly fake news

From back in May:

The world's richest temple Tirumala in Tirupati, abode of Lord Balaji, hasn't paid its staff salary due to the lockdown. The temple has been closed for about 60 days and its management Tirumala Tirupati Devesthanam (TTD) says it has lost a whopping Rs 400 crore so far. Most of its 23,000-strong staff got only half their salary for April.

SOURCE

So much so that they dared hiring non hindus for the temple jobs. As if this was govt money.

Got any credible sources for this info? Are you referring to the appointment of the Chairman who is Christian CM Jagan's maternal uncle? This is a debunked story. He is Hindu and even Subrmanaian Swamy had to come out in Jagan and the uncle's support, affirming that the latter was Hindu. It was so pathetic that Swamy even wrote to the Centre to put a leash on the state BJP leader who'd been spreading this disinformation.

The non-Hindu thing was a controversial law where the government - succumbing to Jagan's Christian beliefs being turned into his Achilles heel - came up with some law to sack non-Hindu employees at Tirupati. There are laws in place already to prevent appointment of non-Hindus to admin positions and these laws were passed long before the savior of Hindus party acquired real political significance.

Amazing to watch how a rubbish law is turned into fuel for the Hindus are in danger cock and bull story.

 

[Slog]

I'm related to that royal family and i can tell you personally that the royal family hasn't touched that wealth ever. Anybody trying to steal it would have been punished severely. There is a famous story when gandhi met the travancore princess and was stunned by the simplicity of her attire and had no jewels etc. They had many faults as with most monarchs and had their own prejudices etc. but they took their role as protecters of the deity and it's wealth exceptionally seriously

That’s nice and I even believe you but would that hold in a credible setting? Which thief or looter would ever say yea we do engage in corruption from time to time. And even if the current ones do what’s the guarantee it will stay that way.

Anyways my intention here was never to attack anyone or a belief when I asked this question so apologies to anyone who thinks I was off the line. I was just curious about accountability for such a large sum of money.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

No the gold doesn't belong to people of the state. Hindus donated it to their deity and the temple, it belongs to the deity and the temple. Not to the people of the state.

Why should the Vault B be opened if temple traditions forbid it?

Already the rest 5 vaults have revealed $20bn worth of treasure and devotees still donate in millions. So running the temple isnt going to be an issue.

Is it normal for temples to get this much money in donations? For an outsider to hear $20 Billion in treasure, the first thought is some sort of scam is going on.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Is it normal for temples to get this much money in donations? For an outsider to hear $20 Billion in treasure, the first thought is some sort of scam is going on.

It is the story of gharibs all over. They think the world owes them money. Can't tell how many times I have to say NO to domestic helps begging for money on the pretext of medical expense, school fees or any made up excuse. These poor buggers go to any extent, even flowing tears and folding hands just that they can get some of my hard earned money. I pay them their wages on time, and even during the lockdown, but they always want extra as if I am toiling for these good for nothing buggers who just want to leech the rich.