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Saqlain Mushtaq wants ICC to review 15-degree elbow rule for spin bowlers

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Former Pakistan spinner Saqlain Mushtaq wants the International Cricket Council (ICC) to review its existing 15-degree arm/elbow extension law for bowlers.

Saqlain, who is presently the head coach at the Pakistan Cricket Board’s High Performance Centre in Lahore, said that the law is discouraging youngsters from taking up the art of off-spin bowling.

"I would like to know how the ICC experts reached this conclusion of allowing only 15-degrees latitude to bowlers. Did they do research on Asian players, Caribbean players, others because everyone is different."

"Asian players' bodies are different, they tend to have more flexibility in their arms and some have hyper-mobile joints. If you look at Caribbean or English players their bodies are different," Saqlain said in an interview.

He noted that even carry angle, meaning flexibility in arms while in standing posture, is different in Asian players.

"I think the ICC should review this law because the 15-degrees latitude is too little. It is discouraging players from taking up the art of off-spin bowling.”

"I personally believe that one can bowl off-breaks, doosra and top spin even within the law but since it came out I have seen players who used to bowl off-spin now becoming leg-spinners or wrist spinners,” he added.

Saqlain, who ended an illustrious career with 208 Test and 288 ODI wickets and made the ‘Doosra’ ball famous, believed that an off-spinner can also be successful in white-ball formats if he has a good set of skills and it is not necessary to be able to bowl the doosra to be effective.

Saqlain also felt that teams were not relying on specialist off-break bowlers in white-ball formats because of an increasing trend of using wrist spinners.

"It is an ongoing trend in white-ball formats that teams want to have maximum wrist spinners like India has Chahal and Yadav, Australia has Adam Zampa and Stephenson, England has Adil Rashid etc. And, this is discouraging players from taking up the art of off-spin bowling.”

He noted that it was only in Test cricket mainly that some countries still employed specialist off-spinners successfully like Nathan Lyon was a regular for Australia and R Ashwin for India while Moeen Ali has done his bit for England.

Saqlain, 44, who has worked as spin consultant/coach with different teams including England, West Indies and New Zealand, urged countries to have budgets to have regular permanent spin coaches with their teams.

"There is also a need to have permanent spin coaches at domestic level and junior levels."

Saqlain had no doubt that spinners would have a vital role to play in the upcoming World T20 in UAE and Oman provided the conditions remained dry.

He said: "Role of spinners in the subcontinent and UAE is always vital but there is no dew factor because a lot of matches are held under lights.”

"If there is no dew factor, they will dominate in dry conditions but to do this they must be class bowlers with a very good set of skills. It is all about bowlers who try to get away with just bowling economically and those who try to take wickets as well.”

Saqlain said that a spin bowler loses his bite, drifts in dew conditions and it becomes difficult to also grip the ball.

To a question, he had no doubt that India’s rise in world cricket was due to the number of A-team tours it arranged for its fringe players in the last 10-years.

"Pakistan cricket has suffered a lot because of no international cricket at home but India has done the right thing by investing in its under-19 and A team tours.”

“I remember I was working in England for like four summers and once in Australia and every year I saw some Indian team touring those countries," he claimed.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cric...-spin-bowlers-ashwin-lyon/article35425994.ece
 
Agreed with Saqi.

Spinners should be allowed to chuck to some level.

However blatant batta bowling should never be allowed. You must at least pretend to bowl legally.
 
No Saqlain you guys got away with it. If you wanna Chuck go play baseball.
 
He believes off spinners can operate within the law yet wants the relaxation of the said law. Only chuckers will benefit if 15 degree mergin is increased to 20-25 degrees.
 
No Saqlain you guys got away with it. If you wanna Chuck go play baseball.

Saqlain didn't get away with it.

Sigh.

Murali too gets wrongly accused of chucking.

Maybe his doosra is dodgy but his normal deliveries barely have any extension.
 
No Saqlain you guys got away with it. If you wanna Chuck go play baseball.

He's blatantly calling ICC to allow chucking.He probably knows doosra can't be bowled with a legal action and Pakistan wont have a Saeed Ajmal if laws aren't altered.
 
He's blatantly calling ICC to allow chucking.He probably knows doosra can't be bowled with a legal action and Pakistan wont have a Saeed Ajmal if laws aren't altered.

He bowled the doosra without chucking, he was tested many times and cleared behind closed doors, so if anyone knows how to bowl it cleanly its saqi.
 
Nope.

Instead ask ICC to:

1. Increase the ground size

2. Change up the 4 player outside rule

3. Stop using 2 new balls

4. Have somewhat lively pitches

And watch spinners rule the roost.

Heck, even if ground sizes are increased and 2 new balls scrapped, we will see a lot more impact from spinners.
 
Is there actually any successful right arm off spinners in the game today? Always looked on them as free runs whenever I saw them coming on to bowl against Pakistan.
 
LOI has pretty much killed spin.

These days, a good spinner is either a darter (usually doesn't last long) or a leggie who can get wickets when you attack him.

I get Saqlain but the suggestion is stupid.

Instead we need more balance between batsmen and bowlers.
 
Lyon from Australia is the last right arm off spinner I can remember who was any good. I know English commentators used to wax lyrical about John Emburey, but he got absolutely destroyed by Javed Miandad one summer when Pakistan were over here, and never saw much more of him after that.
 
Saqlain didn't get away with it.

Sigh.

Murali too gets wrongly accused of chucking.

Maybe his doosra is dodgy but his normal deliveries barely have any extension.
Darryl Hair is adamant Saqlain & Harbhajhan led the chucking brigade..(he did have the best view mind you).
 
Nope.

Instead ask ICC to:

1. Increase the ground size

2. Change up the 4 player outside rule

3. Stop using 2 new balls

4. Have somewhat lively pitches

And watch spinners rule the roost.

Heck, even if ground sizes are increased and 2 new balls scrapped, we will see a lot more impact from spinners.

Yes indeed nothing with the legality.

Spinner were really effective in ODI controlling RR and bringing that into their T20 game but as you’re saying in this post.

What killed off spinner was the rule change hence Ajmal even took retirement.

To be honest he caused too much havoc to be true for most of these teams.

What did it was 2013 England UAE test were they was butchered by spin.

India knew they ambulance on wrist spinners so shut our off spin option as well reduced reverse swing.

All out to finish Pakistan cricket but the boys will always stand up no matter what India comes up with. Truth will always prevail.
 
Relaxing it to 25-35 degrees could see the return of Sri Lanka and Pakistan as decent ODI bowling units and improve their rankings as the big 3 plus New Zealand batsmen would be challenged by wily off spinners instead of the garbage they have to face these days.
 
Yes indeed nothing with the legality.

Spinner were really effective in ODI controlling RR and bringing that into their T20 game but as you’re saying in this post.

What killed off spinner was the rule change hence Ajmal even took retirement.

To be honest he caused too much havoc to be true for most of these teams.

What did it was 2013 England UAE test were they was butchered by spin.

India knew they ambulance on wrist spinners so shut our off spin option as well reduced reverse swing.

All out to finish Pakistan cricket but the boys will always stand up no matter what India comes up with. Truth will always prevail.

Ajmal was a blatant chucker mate.

Saqlain was a different kettle of fish.
 
Darryl Hair is adamant Saqlain & Harbhajhan led the chucking brigade..(he did have the best view mind you).

Doesn't matter what view he had.

With video, we can see it all.

The delivery of Murali which he no-balled, was 100% legal.

Youtube it and slow down the speed.

There is barely any extension.

Bhajji was and is a chucker. Maybe not all the deliveries but he has chucked a lot.
 
Doesn't matter what view he had.

With video, we can see it all.

The delivery of Murali which he no-balled, was 100% legal.

Youtube it and slow down the speed.

There is barely any extension.

Bhajji was and is a chucker. Maybe not all the deliveries but he has chucked a lot.

Bhajji was class! These guys made cricket entertainment.

India team wouldn’t been have liked hadn’t he been around.. MS was weird and dull to start with.
 
Bhajji was a chucker tbh, shame that someone representing India cheated the whole world. Embarrassed us so badly
 
Too many rules in favour of the batsmen, bowlers should have the liberty to bowl 6 bouncers an over, spinners should be allowed to chuck, a quality world class batsman will still do well against a chucker.
 
I think bowlers should be allowed to bowl a couple of beamers at head height every over as well. While we are at it, they should bring in a wildcard where teams can draft in a baseball pitcher to pitch/throw five overs during the second powerplay (overs 10-40) to keep the run-rate in check and tilt the balance slightly in favour of the fielding team.

Shameless cheats.
 
Too many rules in favour of the batsmen, bowlers should have the liberty to bowl 6 bouncers an over, spinners should be allowed to chuck, a quality world class batsman will still do well against a chucker.

Cricket from the inception was a batsmen game because batsmen cant afford a single mistake. Your suggestions wont make the game better, they would only glorify mediocre bowlers. In the 70s to early 80s bowlers had unfair amount advantage as they bowled unlimited bouncers to helmet less batsmen making many mediocre bowlers into legends. In the 90s reverse swing & doosra came into the fore. Again both gave unfair advantages to bowlers.

Chucking isn't cricket, unlimited bouncers isn't cricket. Hence both are outlawed and rightly so.
 
Saqlain can.

His doosra was slower.

Different from others.

Just go to Youtube.

Slow down his videos and compare it to other chuckers...and you will see.

No point in discussing Saqlain or Murali. They're in the history books now. Currently no bowler can bowl doosra with a legal action.
 
Cricket from the inception was a batsmen game because batsmen cant afford a single mistake. Your suggestions wont make the game better, they would only glorify mediocre bowlers. In the 70s to early 80s bowlers had unfair amount advantage as they bowled unlimited bouncers to helmet less batsmen making many mediocre bowlers into legends. In the 90s reverse swing & doosra came into the fore. Again both gave unfair advantages to bowlers.

Chucking isn't cricket, unlimited bouncers isn't cricket. Hence both are outlawed and rightly so.

And the current rules don't glorify batsmen. We have all seen what happens to the Big 4 players including Sharma, Kohli, Pujara whenever they go and face green top conditions which are not common in cricket.
 
ICC would definitely review it when a bowler from india, aus or eng will come into that radar.
 
Give over he was disable.
He had elbow issue, it was broken.

He was lucky… Natural talent..
Saqi was good but Ajmal spearhead a bowling attack for nearly 5 years.


That is why his action rectified as soon as the laws and testing got tightened up?
He chucked blatantly. Saqi was fine.
 
It's fine for asking for a review but don't agree him saying it's because of body types in Asians.

Offspin is still dominant in test matches, may be not so much in odi and t20, but tbh no bowling is effective in shorter formats. It all comes to craft and execution by bowlers under pressure
 
2 new balls is the spinner killer, especially offspinners.
Ashwin/Lyon can be great LOI spinners in the middle period if the ball is a bit soft and grounds are bigger.
But, ICC and England want fours and sixes.
Come to think of it, the rise of England White Ball cricket coincides with this rule change.
 
So that the future Saeed Ajmal's and Harbhajan Singh's can keep chucking with all their might?
 
India knew they ambulance on wrist spinners so shut our off spin option as well reduced reverse swing.

Wow lol
Give over he was disable.

He had elbow issue, it was broken.

He was lucky… Natural talent..

Saqi was good but Ajmal spearhead a bowling attack for nearly 5 years.

Lol he himself proved that is a lie.. He simply not good enough without chucking..
 
Give over he was disable.

He had elbow issue, it was broken.

He was lucky… Natural talent..

Saqi was good but Ajmal spearhead a bowling attack for nearly 5 years.

Funny how his deformity went out of the window and he started bowling with a perfectly legal action the moment he was banned for his action. It's a different matter that with a legal action he wasn't effective and couldn't find a place in the team.

Liar, liar,
Pants on fire! (not directed towards you, of course).
 
Dumb comments by saqlain. He is claiming that the bodies of brown people, black people and white people are different.


Also the posters wanting chucking to be allowed, you do realize that before 2014 we faced an issue where there were no good leg spinners in cricket.

You bring in chuckers, than the leg spinners who bowl with a legal action also get kicked out of the team because a chucker will always get more spin and a better line and length.

Im happy with the current rules as now leggies who bowl with a legal action do grt a chance
 
Give over he was disable.

He had elbow issue, it was broken.

He was lucky… Natural talent..

Saqi was good but Ajmal spearhead a bowling attack for nearly 5 years.

Just because you have a disablitity doesnt mean you should be give an advabtage over others. If a person cant run due to a dislocated back do you say that he can stand and throw the ball as hard as he wants?

Thing is, the moment ajmal got banned he remodeled his action, and the same so called disabled bowler was bowling with a legal action.

Now only problem was his legal action wasnt as effective as when he was chucking
 
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