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Scotland call for independence referendum in 2014

Markhor

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16478121

Alex Salmond has said he wants to hold an independence referendum in Scotland in the autumn of 2014.

The Scottish first minister said this date would allow people to make a "considered" decision on the country's future within the United Kingdom.

The news came as the UK government said its Scottish counterpart could not legally go ahead without its authority.

It has said it wanted to work with the SNP-led administration amid a row over the timing and conditions for a poll.

Confirming the Scottish government's preferred date for a referendum, Mr Salmond - who wants Scotland to leave the UK - said holding a poll in 2014 would allow all the necessary legislation required to authorise it to be passed and for proper preparations to be made.

Mr Salmond added: "The date for the referendum has to be the autumn of 2014. That's because this is the biggest decision that Scotland has made for 300 years. If you are going to do things properly and have the debate in the way it must be had then that is the date that we are going to move towards."

The referendum had "to be made in Scotland" and be approved by the Scottish Parliament and he warned the UK government about "trying to pull the strings behind the scenes".

He said: "What Scotland objects to is all the strings they (the UK government) are trying to to attach. They are trying to run a referendum by proxy."

Prime Minister David Cameron has warned that uncertainty over Scotland's future is damaging its economy and all three Unionist parties - the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats - have called for any referendum vote to be held as soon as possible.

In a statement to MPs, Scottish Secretary Michael Moore said it was the government's "clear view" that the power to hold a referendum was "reserved" to Westminster under laws passed in 1998 paving the way for Scottish devolution and the Scottish government could not authorise a referendum on its own.

The Lib Dem minister told MPs: "The consultation paper I am publishing today sets out different ways to deliver a legal, fair and decisive referendum.

"It explains how the powers for a referendum could be devolved under the Section 30 order-making provisions in the Scotland Act 1998 - our preferred approach.

"It also invites views on devolving the powers using other legislation, including the current Scotland Bill, and for opinions on the possibility of running the referendum directly.

"Given the clear legal problem that exists, we want to work with the Scottish government to provide the answer.

"This is not about the mandates of Scotland's two governments, or who calls the shots. It is about empowering the people of Scotland to participate in a legal referendum. That means that the UK government is willing to give the Scottish Parliament the powers to hold a referendum which they otherwise cannot do legally."

Mr Moore said the UK government was not suggesting a date for the poll in its consultation but it would recommend a single Yes or No question - rather than a third option which has been floated by the SNP involving increased financial powers for the Scottish government short of full independence.

BBC Scotland's Political Editor Brian Taylor said the UK and Scottish governments were divided over the issue of the timing of the referendum, the question to be put to the public and who should oversee the voting process.

Among other areas yet to be clarified are whether the referendum will be legally binding or merely advisory and whether 16 and 17-year-olds should be allowed to vote - a proposal backed by the Scottish government but opposed by the UK government.

For Labour, the party's Scottish leader Johann Lamont called for cross-party talks in Scotland to determine the details of the referendum.

"At last a degree of clarity but this must just be the start," she said of Mr Salmond's announcement. "We need to know that there will be just one question, what that question is, and that the Electoral Commission will administer it."

And Ruth Davidson, the Conservatives' leader in Scotland, said the "decision has to be made by the Scottish people - not held up for years in the Scottish courts".

The Unionists will want a referendum early as possible as they feel they will have a better chance of winning it. Hence, David Cameron talking about businesses unwilling to invest in Scotland because of the uncertainty regarding independence.

However it was funny to see one English businessman come on an hour later after the interview and talk of independence uncertainty didn't even cross his mind :))

The SNP Nationalists want it later, for the same reason. Plus Salmond will want to prepare his campaign well in advance. They want to have the backup of 'Devo Max', greater powers transferred from Westminster, on the ballot.

Would Scottish PPers vote to break away from the Union ?
 
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Can't wait

:pkflag:

The SNP is an excellent party especially for Muslims/Asians. It makes us feel like an integral part of Britain and its great that a party with the word "nationalist" is not a far right racist bunch. They have promoted multi cultularism at times when it became almost a swear word in the media and it was a great sight to see the late Bashir Ahmad become the first Muslim MSP wearing traditional dress with a Jinnah topii and swearing the oath in Urdu. Also a truly anti-war party.

We have free education,subscriptions etc and they have really helped small businesses by cutting rates and stuff. ( I know you guys will argue that London will subsidise but whatever )


I've met many high members of the party and they are excellent people and can hopefully drive the country forward BUT I have a feeling that people won't take the jump towards independence and instead just vote for more powers.

In the event that Independance comes, I invite all you guys to move to Scotland :))

The weather is sh!t but everything else is perfect.
 
Independence is not a good idea.

The practical arguments for independence are very weak and most people arguing for it resort to sentiment. There is understandably a lot of national pride in Scotland and I feel the current constitution of the United Kingdom allows more than enough room for the expression of a Scottish identity.

First things first, we in Scotland have it very good. Free education until university level, a very good NHS service, bus passes for the elderly/disabled etc. Additionally, as part of the UK we have greater global clout.

That said, it is not a one sided relationship - Scotland contributes its fair share to the union. Our oil/gas forms an important part of the energy mix in the UK and the Scottish parliament receives no royalty for this and has in the past received no royalty for this. Our universities are excellent institutions (Edinburgh, St. Andrews, Glasgow etc) which have historically produced some of Britain's best minds and greatest innovations. Scottish territory is home to the Scottish naval bases which house Britain's nuclear deterrent.

In terms of the arguments about independence itself. Ask anyone who is pro-independence the following questions and you will not get satisfactory answers:

1. Will Scotland keep the Pound, will we adopt the Euro, or go it alone with a Scottish Dollar? The Euro is not a good idea for small economies on the periphery of Europe as the experience of Portugal, Ireland and Greece has shown. A Scottish dollar would be a lightweight currency which would fluctuate greatly - this would lead to runs on the currency in times of crisis - ie. what happened to Iceland a few years back. This is arguably a worse position to be in that even being in the Euro. With the Pound we have a strong, global currency and since Scotland's business cycle is very synchronised with England's we are not in the Sterling periphery. As such, economically it would make sense for an independent Scotland to remain in the Pound. If anything - with Scotland being independent, The Bank Of England won't really care as much about the impact of its monetary policy on Scotland. This would gradually push us out of synch with the UK economy.

2. Would we have a seperate army than the United Kingdom? The answer being that Scotland is home to the UK's nuclear deterrent - so we would end up leasing those bases to the UK until another home could be found for the subs. Moreover, setting up a Scottish army, a Scottish navy, and a Scottish air force would require a lot of over heads which are really unecessary. So economically and practically it would make sense to have a joint force of defence with the UK or let the UK assume responsibility for our defence.

3. Would Scotland become a republic? Well Big Alex Salmond says we'll keep The Queen as a monarch in an independent Scotland. Again, no different from the status quo.

From the above three points alone - I don't think independence will bring a great deal of change in Scotland. Economically, the question of currency is the most contentious and as recent events have shown - currency is important. No amount of national pride will solve the kinds of problems being seen in Southern Europe (ask the Greeks they have plenty of it!) From that point of view alone I am against independence.
 
I think we will keep the pound and the queen but the army issue will be a tough one.
 
Think itll be primarily used as a bargaining tool for greater devolution and autonomy for old alba, but if scots want independence then they should go for it, however with complex social, military and economic ties with the rest of britain i dont see scottish people really going for it.
 
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