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Secularism is dead in India?

Pakpak

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Immigration: automatic citizenship to non Muslims immigrants from three neighbors. CAB: every Indian will have to prove their ancestors were born and lived in India. If they don't they're jailed. So if a Muslim can't prove it he's jailed because he's assumed to be an immigrant. If a Hindu can't prove it he's also assumed to be an immigrant as well but he's not jailed as under immigration laws any Hindu immigrant qualifies to be a citizen.


I'm amazed we have Indians defending this. I have spoken up about our minorities a lot. But here educated Indians are defending it. Not only this but I've seen BNP and the Tea party say less insulting things about Muslims than the Twitter free zone on any news about this by Hindus in India.

Tomorrow they will come for Sikhs. I mean there is already a lot of burning over the corridor. This is also the result of Muslims in India never showing spine. I hope they do so now.
 
Although I support it in principle ( willing to have a polite debate with anyone on it), my main concern is the risk of mistakes and inaccuracies, which is very likely given the state of bureaucracy. It is not the right time for the National Register of Citizens till the system is in place. Citizenship Amendment Act is ethical and constitutional. Willing to be proven wrong if it is not.
 
:)))

Secularism was NEVER alive in India for secularism to die an ignominious death in India!
 
There are some people who are secular and there are some who aren't. Its always been like this.

I've spoken with few from the latter category and trust me they are a mirror image of a few Pakistani posters here - they hate "liberals", "seculars", "western concepts", have a strong nostalgia about their glorious past, etc.

When I pointed this out to one of them, he was furious why I compared him with Pakistanis. Lol I get hate from both sides.

every Indian will have to prove their ancestors were born and lived in India

Is this really true though?
 
Can the OP show the clauses in CAB, now CAA that says every Indisn will have to prove his citizenship?
 
When the NRC is applied across the whole country as promised by Amit Shah, it will be required.

Has the bill on country wide NRC passed? Has it been presented? That bill will affect Indians, that will be a different matter altogether. It may not be even done as bjp doesn't have numbers in RS.

CAA gives citizenship to all non Muslim refugees from Pak BD and AFG. It doesn't take anyone's citizenship.
 
The meaning of secularism is equal rights for all irrespective of caste, creed, religion or sex. This is the basic preamble of true secular country. AGREED?

Now lets look into some of the big steps taken by Indian govt in its 2nd term:

1) Abolishing Triple Talaq - Granted equality for muslim women i.e a preamble of secularism ticked.

2) Remove autonomy from Kashmir - Secularism meaning everyone is equal before law...so why 1 state will have special status?

3) NRC - Though this is not implemented yet but how it breaks secularism? Illegal immigrants are not allowed in any country.

4) CAB - Giving citizenship to persecuted minorities is breaking secularism? Persecuted minoriries are proven and recorded, so there is a realm of reality in it. Hindus, Sikhs etc have only 1 home country in the world, so if they are persecuted...where will they go? Is it unfair to give them citizenship?

With UCC coming up next, that will be another historic step in making everyone equal before law. None of the above steps taken by govt breaks the preamble of secularism. Yes, now it does not satisfy the appeasement in the name od seculariam that Nehru taught us is a whole different story.
 
This is false.

Has the bill on country wide NRC passed? Has it been presented? That bill will affect Indians, that will be a different matter altogether. It may not be even done as bjp doesn't have numbers in RS.

CAA gives citizenship to all non Muslim refugees from Pak BD and AFG. It doesn't take anyone's citizenship.

If you don’t do NRC, how would anyone know whether he/she is an illegal migrant/refugee and decide on whether to give Citizenship or not??
 
If you don’t do NRC, how would anyone know whether he/she is an illegal migrant/refugee and decide on whether to give Citizenship or not??

Lots of pakistani hindus, afghan sikhs are in India as refugees. They have refugee documents.

Google Majnu ka Tila Delhi Refugees
Or
Jammu pakistani hindu refugees

This bill will grant them citizenship.

NRC is ao different thing altogether. It only applies to Assam. Separate law needs to be passed for its all India application. It may not be even passed. More important is UCC.
 
Lots of pakistani hindus, afghan sikhs are in India as refugees. They have refugee documents.

Google Majnu ka Tila Delhi Refugees
Or
Jammu pakistani hindu refugees

This bill will grant them citizenship.

NRC is ao different thing altogether. It only applies to Assam. Separate law needs to be passed for its all India application. It may not be even passed. More important is UCC.

So that means the Afghan Muslim refugees who were here in Delhi for so long will be sent to detention camps?? Huh!

And we will give voting rights to illegal Bengladeshi hindus of north east so that they will be votebank for BJP forever now?? Don’t you think we are betraying Assamese and other sister states by doing so??
 
India's biggest headache is trying to go along with the secular ideals in the first place. The idea of a secular state is one which has been propounded by progressive western civilisations such as Great Britain. When Indians talk about secularism, they are parrotting the words, but not the intent or spirit which is our understanding.

India would do better in emulating Pakistan which recognises it is still a religious country and creating a constitution which is consistent with that. Instead India dances around phrases like secularism and democracy because they don't have the courage of their convictions to declare a Hindu Rashtra openly.
 
India is great at paying lip-service to a lot of things.

India is a secular country in name only.
 
So that means the Afghan Muslim refugees who were here in Delhi for so long will be sent to detention camps?? Huh!

And we will give voting rights to illegal Bengladeshi hindus of north east so that they will be votebank for BJP forever now?? Don’t you think we are betraying Assamese and other sister states by doing so??
Afghan muslim refugees will not be given citizenship. Ultimately they will have to go back to Afghanistan. They currently like others like Tibetan Buddhists or srilankan tamils on refugee documents.

I can say political parties are avoiding throwing out illegal muslims because thats their votebank.

Except Assam and Tripura,all NE states are insulated from CAB due to ILP laws.
 
They are nationalist and not only nationalist religiously motivated nationalists now I don't see how this fits and works with secularism. If Indian people want to be this way it is alright there are many states like this for e.g. Pakistan, Israel, Iran, etc.

It is sad for people living in this country for years but they will find some kind of balance being a minority.
 
Lots of pakistani hindus, afghan sikhs are in India as refugees. They have refugee documents.

Google Majnu ka Tila Delhi Refugees
Or
Jammu pakistani hindu refugees

This bill will grant them citizenship.

NRC is ao different thing altogether. It only applies to Assam. Separate law needs to be passed for its all India application. It may not be even passed. More important is UCC.

Aap chronology nahi samajh rahi hai. Pehle CAB aayege phir NRC poore desh mein

 
Afghan muslim refugees will not be given citizenship. Ultimately they will have to go back to Afghanistan. They currently like others like Tibetan Buddhists or srilankan tamils on refugee documents.

I can say political parties are avoiding throwing out illegal muslims because thats their votebank.

Except Assam and Tripura,all NE states are insulated from CAB due to ILP laws
.

Why do we need to repeat the mistake done by Congress?? If we need to correct it then we could deport all the illegal migrants irrespective of religion?

And true, it’s Assam and Tripura going to suffer more because of this CAA.
 
Why do we need to repeat the mistake done by Congress?? If we need to correct it then we could deport all the illegal migrants irrespective of religion?

And true, it’s Assam and Tripura going to suffer more because of this CAA.

Send the Sikh refugees back to Afghanistan. Is that the correct solution?
 
Why do we need to repeat the mistake done by Congress?? If we need to correct it then we could deport all the illegal migrants irrespective of religion?

And true, it’s Assam and Tripura going to suffer more because of this CAA.

It's quite simple really, they want to replace Muslim population with Hindu/offshoots. Don't expect any of your Hindian friends on here to say it openly, but why else would you favour one type of illegal immigrant over another purely on being non-Muslim?
 
Aap chronology nahi samajh rahi hai. Pehle CAB aayege phir NRC poore desh mein


Aise kaise aayega NRC. Law pass karna hoga.

Does BJP has numbers to pass NRC bill? No.they dont.

A NRC like Assam is impossible.
 
Why do we need to repeat the mistake done by Congress?? If we need to correct it then we could deport all the illegal migrants irrespective of religion?

And true, it’s Assam and Tripura going to suffer more because of this CAA.

Well what can be done is that not give these people voting rights. So they cant be votebanks.

Then the only reason to keep them here would be persecution.

That can be a valid demand.
 
No, secularism will never die in India, because Indians are not homogenous like Japanese. I was talking to my cousin from the Hindu side of my family and she was telling me how she and her family felt that Modi was ruining the economy and this citizenship law that was against the Muslims. We don't discuss politics much especially national politics, we are more interested in state politics.

Yes, crazy ones and people who make outrageous statements get more coverage because it makes great soundbite, but the majority will burst fireworks during deepawali, hang a star during christmas and cook Briyani during Ramzan.
 
Aise kaise aayega NRC. Law pass karna hoga.

Does BJP has numbers to pass NRC bill? No.they dont.

A NRC like Assam is impossible.

Whatever Amit Shah says can’t be taken lightly. He actually does what he says, even if that means buying anyone to get the desired result. He has placed stooges everywhere to get what he want.
 
To the OP, secularism in India by virtue of its definition is currently in hibernation mode. I expect the majority (Hindus) to return back to their routine of being concerned about things that affect their food, family and daily lives once they've gotten their fill of appeasement. When that happens this party will be discarded and secularism will return.

Has the bill on country wide NRC passed? Has it been presented? That bill will affect Indians, that will be a different matter altogether. It may not be even done as bjp doesn't have numbers in RS.

CAA gives citizenship to all non Muslim refugees from Pak BD and AFG. It doesn't take anyone's citizenship.

I suggest you watch Amith Shah's latest interview with that Kanwal guy. He talks and acts at times like the goonda he is. At one point even mockingly tells Kanwal to worry about his secularism as if it's some contemptible concept and word like Urban Naxal, Lutyens crowd, sickular etc.
 
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Love it. Most Indians don't even know what secularism is, and this goes for the OP too.

What are you blabbering on about? My post was the fact India was never secular to begin with. And all their secularism was a sham.
 
India Should learn from Islamic state of Pakistan and become non-secular. There is no point of trying to become a secular state
 
India was never a true secular state. There is no real freedom of speech either.

You cannot criticize any individual or religion in public or voice your opinion without getting roughed up or worse killed.

In India democracy and freedom of speech means keep quiet about everything and hush hush any stuff that can cause trouble.
 
Secularism is anything but appeasement. Read my post above...I have explained

I posted the definition of secularism and my post was deleted.

Here it is again. Secularism is the separation of of the state and religion.

The Op is referring to the assimilation of multiple faiths in a country, this is known as pluralism - immigration and citizenship are terms used in reference to pluralism, not secularism.

Like I said the OP is mistaken, as are most Indians.
 
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India Should learn from Islamic state of Pakistan and become non-secular. There is no point of trying to become a secular state

aww how cute. Thanks :)

Ill try again.

For the benefit of most here is the definition.

The principle of separation of the state from religious institutions.
‘he believes that secularism means no discrimination against anybody in the name of religion’

Indias new law is totally the opposite and therefore India can not be a secular nation.
 
Secularism in India was always a joke. It was simply a way to tell the world that we don't oppress non Hindu's. Now we all know otherwise.
 
I posted the definition of secularism and my post was deleted.

Here it is again. Secularism is the separation of of the state and religion.

The Op is referring to the assimilation of multiple faiths in a country, this is known as pluralism - immigration and citizenship are terms used in reference to pluralism, not secularism.

Like I said the OP is mistaken, as are most Indians.
In loka ka nay kasur, yeh lok guda nu kora samjadhe.
 
Whatever Amit Shah says can’t be taken lightly. He actually does what he says, even if that means buying anyone to get the desired result. He has placed stooges everywhere to get what he want.

Stooges where?

He doesn't have RS numbers for NRC.
 
Find it amusing people who does not look to be great believer in secularism and have not stayed in secular environment, is concerned on the recent developments.
 
Depends on who you ask and what they "think" secularism is.

OP is ignorant about indian secularism. Indian constitution though talks about equality for all, had always made exceptions for minorities or weaker sections. The new citizenship law follows the same paradigm, where the minorities and weaker sections from the three neighbouring countries are given preference in citizenship. If this means secularism is dead, it was always dead to begin with. Nothing new has happened.
 
OP is ignorant about indian secularism. Indian constitution though talks about equality for all, had always made exceptions for minorities or weaker sections. The new citizenship law follows the same paradigm, where the minorities and weaker sections from the three neighbouring countries are given preference in citizenship. If this means secularism is dead, it was always dead to begin with. Nothing new has happened.

Nothing wrong with that, just need to stop bleating about secularism when it never existed. Grow some balls and say it bluntly that India intends to be a Hindu rashtra, and that should be enough to shut the critics.
 
Nothing wrong with that, just need to stop bleating about secularism when it never existed. Grow some balls and say it bluntly that India intends to be a Hindu rashtra, and that should be enough to shut the critics.

Which critics, who are they? They are not important for me.
 
That wasn't aimed at you, was clarification of my earlier posts where I was addressing champions of Indian secularism.

Indian secularism ( at least on paper) has the concept of positive discrimination, where the weaker sections are more equal than others. I think this is good, but others may disagree. Many right wingers don't like the concept of positive discrimination in the constitution, but it is funny that so called liberals have now turned right wingers when the citizenship amendment is giving preference to minorities from neighbouring countries. a sikh refugee from afghanistan or a hindu refugee from pakistan should not have to bear the burden that india is hindu majority therefore these minority refugees should not be extended positive discrimination by the law.
 
Indian secularism ( at least on paper) has the concept of positive discrimination, where the weaker sections are more equal than others. I think this is good, but others may disagree. Many right wingers don't like the concept of positive discrimination in the constitution, but it is funny that so called liberals have now turned right wingers when the citizenship amendment is giving preference to minorities from neighbouring countries. a sikh refugee from afghanistan or a hindu refugee from pakistan should not have to bear the burden that india is hindu majority therefore these minority refugees should not be extended positive discrimination by the law.

I think when we talk of minorities getting positive discrimination, it is usually those who are different from the majority, especially when it comes to religion or race. So Indian secularism would be more apparent if they applied positive discrimination to minority races/religions that differ from their own majority.
 
I think when we talk of minorities getting positive discrimination, it is usually those who are different from the majority, especially when it comes to religion or race. So Indian secularism would be more apparent if they applied positive discrimination to minority races/religions that differ from their own majority.

When Pakistani hindus become Indian citizens, they become part of the majority and will not get positive discrimination ( unless from lower castes). But when they come as refugees/immigrants, they are minorities. All their live they have lived as minorities and suddenly they are told tat you don't get any special privilege as minorities because the destination country has majority religion same as yours. Think about it again.
 
When Pakistani hindus become Indian citizens, they become part of the majority and will not get positive discrimination ( unless from lower castes). But when they come as refugees/immigrants, they are minorities. All their live they have lived as minorities and suddenly they are told tat you don't get any special privilege as minorities because the destination country has majority religion same as yours. Think about it again.

Why would a secular country make a religious distinction at all when deciding on who to allow into their secular country?
 
Why would a secular country make a religious distinction at all when deciding on who to allow into their secular country?

it is not disallowing anyone. just that refugees from religious minorities will have shorter waiting time. for others the laws will remain like they were in the past.
 
it is not disallowing anyone. just that refugees from religious minorities will have shorter waiting time. for others the laws will remain like they were in the past.

That is still making a distinction between citizens and refugees - not to mention illegal immigrants - based on their religion.
 
That is still making a distinction between citizens and refugees - not to mention illegal immigrants - based on their religion.

Which is not new. The indian constitution already makes distinction based on religion at many places. Many central universities have 50% reservation for muslims, or 50% for christians because they are minority religions. Are you against that distinction too?
 
Which is not new. The indian constitution already makes distinction based on religion at many places. Many central universities have 50% reservation for muslims, or 50% for christians because they are minority religions. Are you against that distinction too?

I am if India is going to claim to be secular. To be clear, India can be secular or a Hindu rashtra, that isn't my business, but in the more progressive and enlightened societies like USA and Britain, positive discrimination is meant to uplift disadvantaged citizens, not punish them.
 
I am if India is going to claim to be secular. To be clear, India can be secular or a Hindu rashtra, that isn't my business, but in the more progressive and enlightened societies like USA and Britain, positive discrimination is meant to uplift disadvantaged citizens, not punish them.

Which disadvantaged citizens are being punished by the amendment and how?
 
Which disadvantaged citizens are being punished by the amendment and how?

Muslim citizens of India who may not be able to produce documents required, sometimes due to loss in disasters like floods in Assam for example. This is not a problem for Hindus who can't produce documents as they will get a pass.
 
Which disadvantaged citizens are being punished by the amendment and how?

I will quote Mr B R Muralidharan, cheif executive officer of Equinox.

Some confessions. I have no birth certificate. May be I was born in the house in Chennai, helped by a midwife. The only proof that I have is my School Leaving Certificate that has my Date of Birth. Later in life, I picked up my PAN Card & Aadhar Card which are not valid for NRC.

I absolutely have no record about my father or my mother. I am 62 years now. My mom left me 59 years back and my dad 43 years back. I don't have a shred of evidence about my grandparents from both the dad and the mom's side.

I just happen to be a Hindu from Mumbai. What if I were from Assam and from a different community. Would I be sent into a detention centre for life, after having peacefully lived for 6 decades in this country.

What kind of a justice is this, my countrymen. Where are you, my judiciary. Gone with the wind. The heart weeps.

He is not even a Muslim nor poor. What is your opinion about his concern about this?
 
I will quote Mr B R Muralidharan, cheif executive officer of Equinox.

Some confessions. I have no birth certificate. May be I was born in the house in Chennai, helped by a midwife. The only proof that I have is my School Leaving Certificate that has my Date of Birth. Later in life, I picked up my PAN Card & Aadhar Card which are not valid for NRC.

I absolutely have no record about my father or my mother. I am 62 years now. My mom left me 59 years back and my dad 43 years back. I don't have a shred of evidence about my grandparents from both the dad and the mom's side.

I just happen to be a Hindu from Mumbai. What if I were from Assam and from a different community. Would I be sent into a detention centre for life, after having peacefully lived for 6 decades in this country.

What kind of a justice is this, my countrymen. Where are you, my judiciary. Gone with the wind. The heart weeps.

He is not even a Muslim nor poor. What is your opinion about his concern about this?

My opinion is that this is premature articulation.

The all india NRC has not been tabled yet. There will be lots of debates in the parliament when it happens, so responsible citizens should wait for at least it getting tabled, instead of hyperventilating and fear mongering.
 
Muslim citizens of India who may not be able to produce documents required, sometimes due to loss in disasters like floods in Assam for example. This is not a problem for Hindus who can't produce documents as they will get a pass.

Where did you read all that, when the NRC draft has not even been tabled yet?
 
Then they will say its not a anti hindu protest.

You sound like a man with a simple brain. Are you not capable of complex thinking ? Stop holding people hostage in the name of patriotism and religion. People like you are embarrassment to India. You probably think you are some sort of Bharat Mahan LOL. It is people like you that are outdated and simple brain that has ruined India for so many years.
 
I will quote Mr B R Muralidharan, cheif executive officer of Equinox.

Some confessions. I have no birth certificate. May be I was born in the house in Chennai, helped by a midwife. The only proof that I have is my School Leaving Certificate that has my Date of Birth. Later in life, I picked up my PAN Card & Aadhar Card which are not valid for NRC.

I absolutely have no record about my father or my mother. I am 62 years now. My mom left me 59 years back and my dad 43 years back. I don't have a shred of evidence about my grandparents from both the dad and the mom's side.

I just happen to be a Hindu from Mumbai. What if I were from Assam and from a different community. Would I be sent into a detention centre for life, after having peacefully lived for 6 decades in this country.

What kind of a justice is this, my countrymen. Where are you, my judiciary. Gone with the wind. The heart weeps.

He is not even a Muslim nor poor. What is your opinion about his concern about this?

1. Did you read the FAQ on NRC? If not then you have no idea what or what not be accepted. Because no NRC laws have been framed.

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/m.hi...ens-nrc/story-xdrAd6jGcOIXTKs0TqNcDN_amp.html

2. What he is talking about is NRC laws in Assam, that was according to Assam Accord signed by Rajiv Gandhi and approved and ordered by Supreme Court.

3. Even According to Assam NRC, school leaving certificate is acceptable.
 
In the Times UK today. There are interviews, do you want me to post them here?

standards of journalism must have fallen if the articles didnt mention that it was a prediction based on assam nrc ( which was specific for assam) and there is no draft for all india nrc yet.
 
In the Times UK today. There are interviews, do you want me to post them here?

Then mail and ask Times UK. Because no one in India knows what NRC law is. It has not been tabled not been passed, let alone applied.

All that has been done is an NRC in Assam which is based on Assam Accord.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A News18 reporter asked us are you Indian or not. <a href="https://t.co/x7emD4fkws">pic.twitter.com/x7emD4fkws</a></p>— Sameer Yasir (@sameeryasir) <a href="https://twitter.com/sameeryasir/status/1208285081866891264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 21, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Desperate Muslims fight to keep their place in India


India’s citizenship test unleashes Muslim despair and fury

Ordering people without even basic papers such as birth certificates to prove they are Indian is effectively turning thousands into illegal immigrants with nowhere to go[/I], writes Amrit Dhillon

n a dismal polluted morning in a slum on the edge of Delhi, 30 Muslim women have gathered to discuss the prospect that they will soon be stripped of their Indian citizenship.

“My husband can’t even get odd jobs,” said a tearful Nagma Parveen, one of the women in the district of Okhla. “If he doesn’t earn in a day, we don’t eat. On some days, we can’t even have tea. And now we are to be kicked out of India?”

Ms Parveen’s fear stems from two recent decisions by the Indian government. Last week the country’s parliament passed a bill that will grant citizenship to illegal immigrants from neighbouring countries, as long as they are not Muslim. Alongside this, the government of Narendra Modi plans to produce a national register of citizens, which will require each of the country’s 1.3 billion inhabitants, regardless of religion, to prove that they are Indian.

Critics say that the combination of the two makes Muslims uniquely vulnerable, because if Indians of every other religion fail to prove their citizenship through the register, they will be able to claim it as migrants through the new citizenship bill. Muslims will have no such option.

Mr Modi insists the register is needed to “weed out” illegal immigrants and that the purpose of the citizenship bill is to give refuge to persecuted minorities from neighbouring Muslim-majority countries. Opponents say these are anti-Muslim measures that undermine India’s secular constitution.

In what is seen as the Modi government’s biggest test so far, protests in response to the measures erupted on campuses on Sunday and have since spread across the country, bringing ordinary people, many of them women, out on to the streets.

The protests entered their fifth day today with demonstrators defying a police ban on public gatherings. Internet services remained shut down in several parts of the country while in others, police clashed with stone-throwing demonstrators. In several towns, police opened fire. An eight-year-old boy and four protesters were killed in clashes with police, bringing the death toll to 20 since the demonstrations began.

The opposition Congress party has accused the government of stifling protests with “draconian” bans.

At the historic Jama Masjid mosque in Delhi, thousands gathered after Friday prayers and activists joined worshippers in chants of “Remove Modi”. Though police presence was heavy, the protest remained largely peaceful.

Meanwhile, India’s 200 million Muslims are turning their minds to the fight to prove their citizenship. If the government were to hold the national register today, the women in Okhla would stand to become stateless. Forget the complicated documents they will require. They do not even have basics such as birth certificates and their situation is replicated across the country.

For poor Indians, floods, fires, riots and the constant movement from one state to another in search of work — these women are from the states of Bihar, Assam, and Uttar Pradesh — mean papers get lost. Shiny filing cabinets filled with neatly classified folders do not feature in their lives.

A few of the women have voter cards and the official ID card known as Aadhaar. But if the register recently conducted in the northeastern state of Assam is anything to go by, these papers will count for nothing. There, claimants were required to provide documents proving their links to ancestors going back decades. Some 1.9 million were left off the list.

They are now effectively illegal immigrants, with nowhere to go. Some 3,000 will be housed in a detention centre currently being built, the first of 10 planned in the state.

Abhijan, 63, is from Assam though she has lived in Delhi for 20 years. “My family didn’t make it to the register in Assam,” she said. “We don’t own land or a home. I can’t prove that I am the daughter of my parents. We are waiting to see what happens to us.”

All over India, Muslims are in a panic, scurrying to see if they have the right papers and fishing out dog-eared documents from cupboards. Mosques are distributing leaflets. Help groups have created WhatsApp tutorials.

Voluntary groups are running special help desks, and the more educated and affluent in the community are trying to help poor Muslims get their papers in order.

Atia Rabbi, a PhD student at Jamia Millia Islamia university, runs the Koran is for You centre in Okhla where the women have gathered. He says the register is “a threat to the very existence” of Muslims. He tried to help the women, but gave up.

“They don’t have anything we can begin with,” Mr Rabbi said. “They have nothing. For the most basic official document, you need proof of residence, you need a utility bill in your name. No one in a slum has any of these.”

Ms Parveen said: “When floods in Bihar washed away my home and cattle in 2008, I tried to stay alive and save my children, not my papers.” Later she shows the pitiful hut she calls home, covered with stitched together hessian sacks next to an open drain.

The slum inhabitants here have been hit hard by the highest unemployment India has seen in 40 years. What few jobs used to be available at construction sites have been wiped out by the economic slowdown.

Nadia Hussain, 43, who also fled to Delhi after floods in Bihar, tried to get some official documents but found the first obstacle insuperable. “My landlord refused to give me proof of residence because he doesn’t want to pay tax on his rental income,” she said.

Mr Rabbi points out that even if Muslims have some official papers, they are bound to contain discrepancies and misspellings in names and addresses.

It is a national idiosyncrasy to be cavalier about spellings and accuracy. The common name Chatterjee, for example, can also be spelt Chatterjea, Chatarji, Chatterji or Chaterjee. The name Mohammed can be spelt umpteen ways. Ages can be off by a few years. No one is bothered. Now this carelessness could mean the destruction of the rights of hundreds of millions.

The women have resigned themselves to not making the cut. At first, they are vocal, but their faces are etched with anxiety and the mood is one of despair. Halfway through the conversation, the mood turns angry, reflecting the shift that has taken place in the wider community since the passing of the citizenship bill.

“We have been swallowing our anger and hurt since 2014,” Ms Hussain said. “So many measures have targeted us but we wanted to remain peaceful citizens. But this register is too much. It’s a life or death battle now. We have no choice but to fight.”

Their voices become louder as the anger takes hold. “Does Modi have papers proving who his grandparents were?” asks one woman.

“I voted for him in 2014,” says another. “My vote made him PM and gave him this exalted position and this is what he does to me? Makes me prove I am Indian? Shame on him.”

The women have resolved to fight not by applying for citizenship but by making the dramatic step to boycott the process altogether. Encouraged by the nationwide protests, they will refuse to provide the state with any documents. Their mood switched to smiling defiance as they shouted “azadi” (freedom) and pumped the air with their fists.

“We aren’t scared any more,” Ms Parveen said. “We will fight to the end. Modi can’t show us the door. This country is our home.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...t-unleashes-muslim-despair-and-fury-f03d6jxfx

For those who asked for source verification.
 
Asian counties aren’t civilized on the same level as west.

That’s why PM can openly oppose certain group and get away with it. Just like that Pakistani cricketer making fun of dark skinned journalist.

It’s a complete lack of understanding of basic human rights and values that deeply permeates in Asian society.
 
For those who asked for source verification.

this is the news source, but not the source for the truth it claims to be based on ( not your fault, it is sinister journalism). It mis represents the citizenship bill. and talks about NRC based on hearsay.
 
How is it desecration? It is a clever use of the Nazi Swastika. And it was made by Hindus in a BJP-ruled state. My city :)

So desecration of holy Quran is fine if done by a muslim?

The desecration is turning our holiest symbol and turning it to look like the nazi symbol. If they have anything against BJP or Sangh, no need to involve our holiest symbol in it.

I am hurt, offended and outraged at this blasphemy and more so when people tell me it is actually good.
 
How is it desecration? It is a clever use of the Nazi Swastika. And it was made by Hindus in a BJP-ruled state. My city :)

How did you know the religion of the protester?

So desecration is allowed as long as a hindu is involved?

This is a religious protest with political outfits backing it.
 
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