Shaan's movie Arth, the Karachi-Lahore bias & the state of Pakistani cinema

[saadibaba]

So I was reading this interview of Shaan on Dawn because that is what I like to do to distract myself from my insanely stressed out life.

Apparently, Shaan has directed this movie Arth which is a remake of Mahesh Bhatt's 1982 classix of the same name. The movie was released in December and didn't do well at the box office or with critics. So Shaan has lashed out at the Pakistani media and critics for intentionally sabotaging his movie and blamed it on the old clichéd Karachi-Lahore bias. Here is the link:


https://www.dawn.com/news/1382737/the-icon-interview-arth-shaan-and-fire


Per Shaan "All the major networks are based in Karachi and actors who want to work in dramas have no option but to shift there in order to build their careers. Most major print and online publications are based in Karachi and for some reason the reviewers are simply less kind towards Lahore-based productions. A publicist once told them that if I did not sign their contract, I would never be able to get work in Karachi. There is a certain arrogance that prevails, putting down one city in favour of the other."

How true is this criticism or is it just a case of sour grapes.

Also, when asked by the interviewer that why did he obtain the rights of an Indian movie when usually he has a negative stance towards Indian cinema, his answer seemed a bit confusing. He explained that he was trying to pave the way for Pakistani movies to be shown in India and was meaning to encourage Indian investment in Pakistan. Of course that did not work out from what I understand.

Now, I have not seen the movie so I have no way to tell if it is any good. I did end up watching the trailer and the production quality seemed pretty decent for a Pakistani movie.

In any case, the broader question to be asked here is for how long will our film industry be relying on Indian movies to keep the theatres running and when will Pakistani cinema be able to carve itself out of the shadows of Bollywood and develop its own unique identity, e.g. like Iranian cinema.

Who is to blame here. Our people who are hooked on Bollywood and watch their movies incessantly and have subsequently developed a particular style and taste which no other style or approach can satisfy. Or is it the movie makers of Pakistan, who are afraid of taking risks and feel more comfortable churning out Bollywood style movies so they have a reasonable chance of success at the box office and in turn the vicious circle continues.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

The answer is probably .... Shaan fatigue!

Why would anyone turn up to watch a remake of and Indian movie which itself is probably a remake/copy of another international movie.

 

[ManFan]

The reason for Pakistan’s failed film industry currently is they try too hard to be Bollywood. They use item-songs, dance numbers, and the same old plots and cliches. What happens is the public gets a second grade version of what they have already watched. The current revival is due to 2 films (Waar and Khuda Kai Liye). The latter was the first film of its kind and took the current landscape and explored its issues which the best of films normally do. When the industry was flourishing in the past, you saw more of Pakistan in them. The Maula Jatts and Choclate Heroes and Saima and Shaan. But there is a certain level of saturation in the market for a type of film. The public got bored with watching Shaan fight someone with a machine gun and twirl his heroine along with his mustache. The same is happening now. The directors have become infatuated with a group of friends who attempt some big adventurous scheme after things go haywire and a wedding takes place. For it to succeed, it needs a Hendrix or Nirvana of film-making. The best place to do that is to take the smaller stage plays and dramas and incorporate them in their purest form. Do not attempt to neutralise their creativity in the name of appealing to the average viewer. When you try and please everybody, you end up pleasing nobody.

 

[faraz39]

^great analysis. Very much agree with the idea of presenting smaller stage plays in their purest form.

 

[Savak]

The vast majority of the population cannot afford to pay prices of Rs 250-500-1000 for a movie ticket. The middle class and upper middle class is very small in Pakistan. If he wanted to do good business in Pakistan, the film has to be released in a good 1000-2000 movie theatres just like it happens for most movies in India as opposed to just the top 5-6 movie theatres in Pakistan. The prices also have to come down for the common masses to like Rs 50-100 for a movie ticket. The middle class, upper middle class will still prefer to watch the movies in the major cinemas in the country.

 

[shah_1]

Shaan should understand that he is not that star anymore. Gone are the days of Punjabi jatt films, his popularity has dwindled over the years.

he should focus on making quality films instead of venting out his frustration on the flim being BO disaster,

 

[saadibaba]

[MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION]

I agree with your post. However, I am not sure if we should be remaking TV dramas and stage plays into movies.

Film is a visual medium with the director at its forefront. TV dramas and plays are a writers medium and rely on dialogue and story line. I am not sure if merging of the both will work other than giving people a chance to have the TV drama experience on a big screen.

What I feel Pakistani cinema suffers the most from is the lack of quality auteurs. Directors who are not influenced by Bollywood or Hollywood but having a unique and distinct visual flair and style which comes out as true representation of our culture and values. Obviously, those auteurs need to supported by our industry and also the general population.

The desire to be mediocre, repetitious and unoriginal to sustain itself is understandable but I feel that is doing a disservice to Pakistani cinema in the long run where we may never be able to come out of shadows of Bollywood and simply exist just for the sake of it. Better to have no cinema than the other alternative.

 

[kaayal]

I have watched only 2 Pakistani movies. Khuda Ke Liye and Bol. Both were brilliant. Is there any other director apart from Shoaib Mansoor who can make such quality films instead of copying the glamour and dances of bollywood?

 

[Lonewarrior]

his movie Arth 2 is flop becoz it was remake of indian movie. its as simple as that.
pakistani movies do good busniess.
for example : Punjab nahi jao gi. ( without any item song )
still running succesfully and gt 60+ crores collection at box office.

you will see shaan's next movie will earn more thn Arth 2.
his next project is "Zarrar" , its about action and thrill. i think it was shoot in england and france.

 

[Gayle_Force]

I watched a few Pakistani movies recently and found them to be quite decent(by Pakistani standards). I do think Pakistani film industry finds itself in a real dilemma as majority of the target audience has already developed a taste for Bollywood and Hollywood movies. So competing with these industries with a much much lower production budget is a challenge.

Second issue that I personally find is that most of the actors, directors, and crew etc in Pakistani movies seem to come from a TV serial/drama background so when you watch the movie it just feels like you are watching another TV serial.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Not sure about the Karachi-Lahore bias, which although I believe does exist, but there is a lack of diversity in terms of content, be it drama industry or film industry. A lot of Hollywood movies are inspired from various forms of literature but according to my opinion there are no incentives in writing and publishing books in Pakistan. More importantly the literature that does exist is mainly of similar themes with a handful of authors churning out the same type of storyline and material every now and then.
The financial side isn’t any better. There are not enough quality cinemas to enjoy a decent movie experience and the ones who are available for public are in constant danger of getting burnt by either the politically or religiously charged mobs. Women who visit such premises are looked down upon in the society therefore alienated from the whole equation, which is almost half the population.
One possible suggestion is that there is enough opportunities for millennials to plug this gap. One such example is Patari who are making some money in the music industry. They can also use relatively obscure western literature in personalise it according to local culture and traditions. These are my observations and can wrong about a few things mentioned above.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Too early for Pakistani Cinema to have its own identity. Every budding writer copies the style of the writers she is inspired by. But they can at least copy from the good, like Iranian Cinema..instead of the crap called bollywood.

 

[Pakistanian]

I think their is a sort of rivalry between the 2 cities, it was evident in the cricket team a long time back.

 

[Madplayer]

The reason for Pakistan’s failed film industry currently is they try too hard to be Bollywood. They use item-songs, dance numbers, and the same old plots and cliches. What happens is the public gets a second grade version of what they have already watched. The current revival is due to 2 films (Waar and Khuda Kai Liye). The latter was the first film of its kind and took the current landscape and explored its issues which the best of films normally do. When the industry was flourishing in the past, you saw more of Pakistan in them. The Maula Jatts and Choclate Heroes and Saima and Shaan. But there is a certain level of saturation in the market for a type of film. The public got bored with watching Shaan fight someone with a machine gun and twirl his heroine along with his mustache. The same is happening now. The directors have become infatuated with a group of friends who attempt some big adventurous scheme after things go haywire and a wedding takes place. For it to succeed, it needs a Hendrix or Nirvana of film-making. The best place to do that is to take the smaller stage plays and dramas and incorporate them in their purest form. Do not attempt to neutralise their creativity in the name of appealing to the average viewer. When you try and please everybody, you end up pleasing nobody.

This is a brilliant post and completely encapsulates the problem with Pakistani film industry.

Stop trying to be bollywood. Bring the purity and innocence of your dramas to the big screen.

 

[Syed1]

I saw Actor in Law last summer that was an amazing movie. Also Na maloom afrad was pretty good too.

 

[ManFan]

[MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION]

I agree with your post. However, I am not sure if we should be remaking TV dramas and stage plays into movies.

Film is a visual medium with the director at its forefront. TV dramas and plays are a writers medium and rely on dialogue and story line. I am not sure if merging of the both will work other than giving people a chance to have the TV drama experience on a big screen.

What I feel Pakistani cinema suffers the most from is the lack of quality auteurs. Directors who are not influenced by Bollywood or Hollywood but having a unique and distinct visual flair and style which comes out as true representation of our culture and values. Obviously, those auteurs need to supported by our industry and also the general population.

The desire to be mediocre, repetitious and unoriginal to sustain itself is understandable but I feel that is doing a disservice to Pakistani cinema in the long run where we may never be able to come out of shadows of Bollywood and simply exist just for the sake of it. Better to have no cinema than the other alternative.

There is no such thing as a 100% original idea in any form of art. Everybody is influenced by someone and analyses their experience through that outlet and creates a work that uses the technique of their inspiration and story of their thoughts. So you will never get a writer/director NOT influenced by Hollywood/Bollywood. That is unrealistic and films are above all a business. You know that movie Sharknado? Ridiculous plot but it was a massive hit in America. But now they are churning out sequel after sequel and the freshness is gone. The problem with any success is once you get a taste of it, you want more but what worked previously was due to the fact that you did not look for success but a completion of your creativity. That’s why I believe 3 Idiots (a Tamil remake) is a must watch for any young child. Getting back to films in Pakistan, they can only remake a stage drama into a film and not a TV serial/drama because that has been catered to a larger audience and saturated being formulaic. What I meant was use the methods of stage dramas and incorporate them into a film.

 

[Reddy]

There is no such thing as a 100% original idea in any form of art. Everybody is influenced by someone and analyses their experience through that outlet and creates a work that uses the technique of their inspiration and story of their thoughts. So you will never get a writer/director NOT influenced by Hollywood/Bollywood. That is unrealistic and films are above all a business. You know that movie Sharknado? Ridiculous plot but it was a massive hit in America. But now they are churning out sequel after sequel and the freshness is gone. The problem with any success is once you get a taste of it, you want more but what worked previously was due to the fact that you did not look for success but a completion of your creativity. That’s why I believe 3 Idiots (a Tamil remake) is a must watch for any young child. Getting back to films in Pakistan, they can only remake a stage drama into a film and not a TV serial/drama because that has been catered to a larger audience and saturated being formulaic. What I meant was use the methods of stage dramas and incorporate them into a film.

A correction: Three idiots is not based on any Tamil film, it is based on a Book "Five Point Someone" by Chetan Bhagat. After the success of three idiots, there were remakes in Tamil and Mexican. The Telugu version was just redubbed instead of remaking it.

 

[kaayal]

A correction: Three idiots is not based on any Tamil film, it is based on a Book "Five Point Someone" by Chetan Bhagat. After the success of three idiots, there were remakes in Tamil and Mexican. The Telugu version was just redubbed instead of remaking it.

You beat me. I was about to type this.

 

[ManFan]

A correction: Three idiots is not based on any Tamil film, it is based on a Book "Five Point Someone" by Chetan Bhagat. After the success of three idiots, there were remakes in Tamil and Mexican. The Telugu version was just redubbed instead of remaking it.

Oh sorry about that. Knew the name of what it was remade after but always thought it was a Tamil film.

 

[saadibaba]

There is no such thing as a 100% original idea in any form of art. Everybody is influenced by someone and analyses their experience through that outlet and creates a work that uses the technique of their inspiration and story of their thoughts. So you will never get a writer/director NOT influenced by Hollywood/Bollywood. That is unrealistic and films are above all a business. You know that movie Sharknado? Ridiculous plot but it was a massive hit in America. But now they are churning out sequel after sequel and the freshness is gone. The problem with any success is once you get a taste of it, you want more but what worked previously was due to the fact that you did not look for success but a completion of your creativity. That’s why I believe 3 Idiots (a Tamil remake) is a must watch for any young child. Getting back to films in Pakistan, they can only remake a stage drama into a film and not a TV serial/drama because that has been catered to a larger audience and saturated being formulaic. What I meant was use the methods of stage dramas and incorporate them into a film.

Making stage dramas into movies was how movies started being made after the talkies started. If you look at the early talkies, they are mostly stage plays that have been shot on film. The purest interpretation of cinema is actually closer to the silent movie era when everything had to be portrayed through images and music rather than language making cinema distinct from other forms of art.

Influential french film maker Robert Bresson in his book "Notes on the Cinematograph" emphasizes on using images rather than dialogue to create a new art form, "No marriage of theatre and cinematography without both being exterminated".

I agree that movies have to be commercial and appeal to the mass audience and thus incorporating the commercially created stage drama into a movie can be a easy fix however if Pakistani cinema wants to create its own identity and reputation, in my opinion its creators i.e. directors will have to follow Bressons example.

 

[JaDed]

Pakistan cinema is either about converting their dramas into movies or bollywood in movies, Arth the old hindi movie was a remarkable movie and one of the better ones to come out from Mahesh Bhatt, not even sure if Pakistani cinema was ready for it on screen level.

Movie experience is very different, and it needs to be entertaining for masses,I had read Shaan's interview as well when it came out,he seems to be extremely bitter at critics review ,one cannot support a movie just because its of their region not sure why he always seems like an entitled baby in his interviews.

Movie industries around the world are facing competition from their TV/online industry ,don't understand the reason for Pakistan to be obsessed with Screens when they can easily setup up a online/TV industry.

 

[ManFan]

Pakistan cinema is either about converting their dramas into movies or bollywood in movies, Arth the old hindi movie was a remarkable movie and one of the better ones to come out from Mahesh Bhatt, not even sure if Pakistani cinema was ready for it on screen level.

Movie experience is very different, and it needs to be entertaining for masses,I had read Shaan's interview as well when it came out,he seems to be extremely bitter at critics review ,one cannot support a movie just because its of their region not sure why he always seems like an entitled baby in his interviews.

Movie industries around the world are facing competition from their TV/online industry ,don't understand the reason for Pakistan to be obsessed with Screens when they can easily setup up a online/TV industry.

Not everybody has internet access in Pakistan.

 

[JaDed]

This is a brilliant post and completely encapsulates the problem with Pakistani film industry.

Stop trying to be bollywood. Bring the purity and innocence of your dramas to the big screen.

The purity and innocence of dramas is good for dramas not movies as such, I have always hated last decades Indian dramas(they seem to be somewhat better online now) but Pakistani dramas at times feels like to be about helpless women trying to fight society, there seems to be an enforced black and white view at things.

 

[ManFan]

The purity and innocence of dramas is good for dramas not movies as such, I have always hated last decades Indian dramas(they seem to be somewhat better online now) but Pakistani dramas at times feels like to be about helpless women trying to fight society, there seems to be an enforced black and white view at things.

They are both beyond bad to watch. The majority of these viewers are housewives, particularly lonely housewives. What will be the impact on them when all they see and hear in their moment of solitude is bickering, manipulating, and no thought provoking idea?

 

[JaDed]

Not everybody has internet access in Pakistan.

Yes but TV access is still there, the obsession with Pakistani movies for the sake of it seems forced, also are you telling me those that don't have access to net and TV are actually watching the movie in cinemas?

 

[ManFan]

Yes but TV access is still there, the obsession with Pakistani movies for the sake of it seems forced, also are you telling me those that don't have access to net and TV are actually watching the movie in cinemas?

Cinemas are for the poor. TV/Net for the the upper class. Middle class is well...not there.

 

[JaDed]

They are both beyond bad to watch. The majority of these viewers are housewives, particularly lonely housewives. What will be the impact on them when all they see and hear in the moment of solitude is bickering, manipulating, and no thought provoking idea?

I agree,its very similar with most Indian movies(except small budget ones) and dramas which I don't even have an idea about except TVF pitchers which was different as an Indian viewer.

 

[JaDed]

[MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION] not sure how many thought provoking movies/dramas can be made anyway in desi land when we don't have freedom of speech, Padmavat/i recent example.

 

[ManFan]

[MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION] not sure how many thought provoking movies/dramas can be made anyway in desi land when we don't have freedom of speech, Padmavat/i recent example.

Sange Mar Mar was a great drama. Compelling all the way until the final episode. It takes very little to make people interested as long as you do it right. The drama was the same old same old but the presentation was solid. That’s a nice start.

 

[JaDed]

Too early for Pakistani Cinema to have its own identity. Every budding writer copies the style of the writers she is inspired by. But they can at least copy from the good, like Iranian Cinema..instead of the crap called bollywood.

Yes very true,lets riot in the name of movie and then call Iranian/French cinema great.So your basic idea is this is the freedom of art we give you make whatever you can in those limits without hurting anyone? [MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION]

 

[JaDed]

Sange Mar Mar was a great drama. Compelling all the way until the final episode. It takes very little to make people interested as long as you do it right. The drama was the same old same old but the presentation was solid. That’s a nice start.

Old wine in a new bottle concept will check it out.

 

[JaDed]

Influential french film maker Robert Bresson in his book "Notes on the Cinematograph" emphasizes on using images rather than dialogue to create a new art form, "No marriage of theatre and cinematography without both being exterminated".

I agree that movies have to be commercial and appeal to the mass audience and thus incorporating the commercially created stage drama into a movie can be a easy fix however if Pakistani cinema wants to create its own identity and reputation, in my opinion its creators i.e. directors will have to follow Bressons example.

Why though? Pakistan is already blessed with Urdu ,its poetic on ears and can convey deep meaning,so why would one go extensively on images?
Also not everyone can grasp just good cinematography as a movie.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Yes very true,lets riot in the name of movie and then call Iranian/French cinema great.So your basic idea is this is the freedom of art we give you make whatever you can in those limits without hurting anyone? [MENTION=130700]TM Riddle[/MENTION]

Yes, padmavat would be a masterpiece without the censor board cuts. And copywood (full of one community which only knows money) would be churning out quality cinema had it been given full liberty.

 

[JaDed]

Yes, padmavat would be a masterpiece without the censor board cuts. And copywood (full of one community which only knows money) would be churning out quality cinema had it been given full liberty.

Well they did make Mother India glad censor board didn't say a mother can't kill her son.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Well they did make Mother India glad censor board didn't say a mother can't kill her son.

If you want to continue singing paeans for copywood, I suggest you bump the bollywood thread, and let this discussion be focused on Pakistani Cinema.

 

[JaDed]

If you want to continue singing paeans for copywood, I suggest you bump the bollywood thread, and let this discussion be focused on Pakistani Cinema.

You are the one that brought in bollywood sir John.

 

[introvert]

Just watched trailer production quality and music looks good but plot doesn't exite looks too urban for masses.maybe that's why it failed.

 

[CricketCartoons]

You are the one that brought in bollywood sir John.

If you read and understand, you will see that bollywood was mentioned in the OP itself. So my comment was very much relevant to the discussion. However, Bollywood is not the main topic of discussion here, therefore I said that if you want to continue about that crap industry, then please do it in the appropriate thread. Read it thrice and let that sink in.

 

[Madplayer]

The purity and innocence of dramas is good for dramas not movies as such, I have always hated last decades Indian dramas(they seem to be somewhat better online now) but Pakistani dramas at times feels like to be about helpless women trying to fight society, there seems to be an enforced black and white view at things.

I was talking with respect to the audience in Pakistan in particular. its obvious that a movie is different than a tv drama show and had to incorporate some other commercial elements as well. However, needless item songs, forced romantic angles etc. which we find in the bollywood movies arent the only elements to make it commercially viable.

 

[saadibaba]

Why though? Pakistan is already blessed with Urdu ,its poetic on ears and can convey deep meaning,so why would one go extensively on images?
Also not everyone can grasp just good cinematography as a movie.

I'm not proposing we start making silent movies. Bresson's own movies had dialogue in it. What I am trying say is we should not just be recording a stage play on camera and call it a movie.

Let me give you an example. In Tarantino's Reservoir Dogs, which is not by any means a movie full of great cinematic flourishes or visual effects, things we equate with movies. However, there is a scene in which Mr.Blonde when all alone with the tied up cop, goes through what appears to be a very casual routine to cut one of his ears off. Mr.Blonde put on his favorite station on the radio and goes on like its nothing special. Then he proceeds to get the fuel from the car parked outside so he can burn the cop alive.

Now, Tarantino could have shot that using intense and suspenseful soundtrack in the background or some more dialogue. But all he did to create tension was having the camera track Mr.Blonde out of the safe house to the car and back, while the song playing on the radio in the safe house fades in and out in relation to Mr.Blonde's movement. As audience we anticipate that something bad is going to happen. We follow Mr.Blonde out in the street with no soundtrack or music, just background noise of any suburban neighborhood. We are outside the house of horrors but the tension is unrelenting and takes another level of intensity by the cool almost casual nature of how this horrific act is being shown to us.

This particular sequence cannot have come from the screenplay or dialogue. This only happens when visuals and sounds are used in such manner as to create emotion no words could have been able to. This is what cinema is all about. This is why the medium of film is so unique and appealing to people. Now people watching the movie may have not realized what techniques are being used but they are being moved by it regardless.

 

[JaDed]

I'm not proposing we start making silent movies. Bresson's own movies had dialogue in it. What I am trying say is we should not just be recording a stage play on camera and call it a movie.

Let me give you an example. In Tarantino's Reservoir Dogs, which is not by any means a movie full of great cinematic flourishes or visual effects, things we equate with movies. However, there is a scene in which Mr.Blonde when all alone with the tied up cop, goes through what appears to be a very casual routine to cut one of his ears off. Mr.Blonde put on his favorite station on the radio and goes on like its nothing special. Then he proceeds to get the fuel from the car parked outside so he can burn the cop alive.

Now, Tarantino could have shot that using intense and suspenseful soundtrack in the background or some more dialogue. But all he did to create tension was having the camera track Mr.Blonde out of the safe house to the car and back, while the song playing on the radio in the safe house fades in and out in relation to Mr.Blonde's movement. As audience we anticipate that something bad is going to happen. We follow Mr.Blonde out in the street with no soundtrack or music, just background noise of any suburban neighborhood. We are outside the house of horrors but the tension is unrelenting and takes another level of intensity by the cool almost casual nature of how this horrific act is being shown to us.

This particular sequence cannot have come from the screenplay or dialogue. This only happens when visuals and sounds are used in such manner as to create emotion no words could have been able to. This is what cinema is all about. This is why the medium of film is so unique and appealing to people. Now people watching the movie may have not realized what techniques are being used but they are being moved by it regardless.

You are right on artistic level, I have been reading your posts for a while ,you defn have exposed to much more "art" than an average person would be in his/her lifetime thereby making you appreciate such level of details.

Now lets take an example of an average person in desi land,working the whole week and has had his dose of reality already, would he want to go for something like that?Even in terms of humor quotient in the Tarantino movies its easy to miss out on.

Also considering Pakistani film industry is in its initial stages(rebirth) this is too much to ask from them(audience) because Pakistanis have been exposed to commercial cinema from Hollywood and Bollywood,so Pakistani movies won't be the first thing they are watching which happened with Indian cinema(all languages),that created a bond.

I do agree on all the points,and am also seeing Indian directors taking a leaf out of that nowadays aka Anurag Kashyap.

 

[Slog]

whats up with Shaan these days?

a month ago he was picking fights with strangers over the internet and throwing a hissy fit as well. now this!