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Shan Masood & Mohammad Rizwan v Netherlands - the epitome of all that is wrong with Pakistan cricket

pakistanigoneaussie

pakistanigoneaussie

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Shan Masood & Mohammad Rizwan v Netherlands - the epitome of all that is wrong with Pakistan cricket

Shan and Rizwan batted together for 30 balls and made 30 runs, despite being in the easiest of situations.

After nearly getting caught out on 39, Rizwan proceeded to make 10 runs from 12 balls before getting out. No doubt playing for his 50.

Shan's performance was even worse, he made 12 runs from 16 balls, and didn't play a single attacking shot till the ball he got out on.

Shan has now played 15 games. When Pakistan win a match, Shan averages 15 , with a strike rate of of 102 and a highest score of 31.

When Pakistan loose, Shan averages 49 at a strike rate of 129, most of these stats being elevated by his 50s against England where he never made any attempt to chase the score.


These two easily cost us a run rate. We are going nowhere with this approach or with Shan in the side.

After all this what other conclusion can their be other than this it is selfish play?
 
Shoaib Akhtar was always right

Average minds will produce average results.
 
The problem is they don’t have the ability or the reliability to go hard. They just want to win which is a huge milestone never mind winning big
 
Shan is playing selfish cricket to secure his own place. He will never play for the team. His previous innings were in losing situations and did not help the team one bit. Under normal circumstances, those innings would be considered selfish but because everyone was failing around him, he somehow is being viewed as a shining star...

Those 2-3 match losing inning he played will haunt Pakistan for years to come. Just like that fluke 50 from Haider against England has haunted us till this day.

He is not built for T20. it's as simple as that.
 
Shan should not playing a single game for Pak at this level ever again but he will ride his useless 50s and 40s in losing causes for 10 years
 
Mentioned it many times, Shan does not merit a T20 spot based on his batting style. 3 anchors in the top 4.
 
Brainless batting, better to lose 8 wickets but chase down the runs in 10 overs. Does the Pakistani team management know about NRR?
 
Saj said:
The numbers:

30 runs from 30 balls
Click to expand...


17 men walked into the middle today and Rizwan was the most effective of them all. He really hasn't done anything but serve Pakistan to the best of his ability.
 
Saj said:
The numbers:

30 runs from 30 balls
Click to expand...

What did you expect? All the criticism and toxic environment just goes to create players that are hesitant, scared and apprehensive of making mistakes and losing the game
 
hitthestump said:
17 men walked into the middle today and Rizwan was the most effective of them all. He really hasn't done anything but serve Pakistan to the best of his ability.
Click to expand...

Please stop

After he was dropped he went less than a run a ball and basically punted the ball around so he could get a 50 agaisnt the mighty dutch
 
Zaz said:
What did you expect? All the criticism and toxic environment just goes to create players that are hesitant, scared and apprehensive of making mistakes and losing the game
Click to expand...

Poor lads

Sounds like a bunch of club cricketers more than international pros
 
Rana said:
Poor lads

Sounds like a bunch of club cricketers more than international pros
Click to expand...

And heres more negativity Do you think these are healthy comments for players ?

Criticism needs to be constructive not negative n damaging and thats all ive been hearing for the last few days
 
If Shan is played v South Africa batting at number 4 then the whole establishment needs to be sacked.

Shan is not a T20 international batsman

It's a disgrace to have him in the set up
 
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When you are out of form and have the opportunity to score some runs chasing a small score, you try to get some runs under your bat, get a bit of form back rather than worrying about strike rate. Esp when you lost last match chasing 42 runs of 39 balls with 6 wickets.
 
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happydavy said:
When you are out of form and have the opportunity to score some runs chasing a small score, you try to get some runs under your bat, get a bit of form back rather than worrying about strike rate. Esp when you lost last match chasing 42 runs of 39 balls with 6 wickets.
Click to expand...

Say for the sake of argument I ignore all context and give you Rizwan as being out of form. What about Shan? All i heard from his defenders at how well he is doing
 
Glad he couldn't get a selfish stat padding 50
 
Shan Masood

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/b63039" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>


Mohammad Rizwan

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/vgvbyc" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Our take-aways from this game should be that Rizwan has runs under his belt, Fakhar looked good, and despite a little period of nervy play at the end, we got the necessary points.

It is very easy to pin the blame on Rizwan and call him a selfish player, but some posters need to open their eyes and realize that when there are no runs being scored, any runs are valuable. Even with that being said, Rizwan's innings wasn't selfish at all; people who say so are delusional and need to reconsider their priorities, rather than supporting a team, they are fixated on praying on the downfall of a player trying to serve his country to the best of his ability.

We are not some talent infused country, please accept the harsh reality that we do not produce batting talent on a good enough basis. There is perfect justification for persisting with the Babar + Rizwan opening combination when the rest of the batsmen available in the country are muppets incapable of ever achieving the same level of consistency and match-winning performances that Babar and Rizwan have put up for the country.

There is a very good reason why commentators and experienced, logical thinkers have not dispelled unnecessary criticism on the opening pair; instead, they have time and time again called for the management to explore why the middle order keeps failing to live up to the standards set.

I am perfectly willing to entertain the notion of having one of Babar-Rizwan moving down the order; that being said, it must be a logical change for a reason, such as bringing a LH-RH combination into the mix, or strengthening the middle order by spreading out the best batsmen on the team.

To call Rizwan's innings selfish is incredibly idiotic to say the least; Netherlands had a good passage of bowling and with a target like this, and the priority being getting runs, I am willing to accept the fact that they decided to ensure the victory though I would have liked for the game to finish early as well.

We must stop our nitpicking into small, irrelevant details in the performances of players who are putting in the work and stop our delusional support of players that hardly belong on the international level. The same people talking down on Rizwan-Babar combination are the people who wanted Sharjeel, Azam, and other hacks like Haider on our team when they have no credible performances to justify their selection.
 
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Looks like only SKY will be able to better Rizwan's work today.

Rizwan is not Buttler or Maxwell but he is the best in Pakistan at what he does. We have never produced a better t20 opener than him.
 
Have PCT management not heard of NRR?

How arrogant are we as a team/fans to continue to neglect this?

So India has to win one of its remaining two games and Pakistan has to win 2 from 2, and even in that case we have to end up with a better NRR?

How do you know justify the pathetic approach when chasing against Zimbabwe? What about today? Why are Pakistan to scared to chase 90 in 8-10 overs against an associate nation? They get 6 overs of powerplay!!

It seems like everything we took for granted as a team is coming back to haunt us in ways unimaginable! Who is answerable to this?
 
Pakistan are virtually out of the tournament barring a miracle.

India are not losing to Zimbos and Bangos. Pakistan has to sill play SA which will not be easy in these conditions.

These are terrible pitches for T20's. It feels like T20 hacks are trying to hit sixes on a cloudy 1st hour pitch at Edgbaston against Jimmy Anderson. Such is the difficulty on these pitches.

Even if Pak are out of the tournament, PCB should not read much into this. These are not T20 wickets. Very few batsmen are able to come to terms with the Pace and bounce.
 
castortroy said:
If Shan is played v South Africa batting at number 4 then the whole establishment needs to be sacked.

Shan is not a T20 international batsman

It's a disgrace to have him in the set up
Click to expand...




With whom would you replace him at this point? Haider Ali and Asif Ali are only 2 option.
 
MSaad1237 said:
With whom would you replace him at this point? Haider Ali and Asif Ali are only 2 option.
Click to expand...

With Fakhar back in the staring team, Shaan can't be a number 4in T20 international cricket. His game is simply built for that. If Babar was less selfish, he would swap places with Shaan & let him open with Rizwan. But he won't so no point playing him.

Let Ifti come in at 4 and either one of Haider, Asif or Kushdil comes down the order to slog.
 
Delusional thread, once again Rizwan saved backside of Pakistan, with Babar out very early and Shan going no where, and less said about the rest the better after losing to Zimbabwe when Rizwan did not contribute.
 
The team selection is flawed in the first place.

Nawaz is playing as a specialist batsmen.

Shan has been given a top order position in T20.

Shaheen is months away from full fitness.
 
PakPremi said:
Delusional thread, once again Rizwan saved backside of Pakistan, with Babar out very early and Shan going no where, and less said about the rest the better after losing to Zimbabwe when Rizwan did not contribute.
Click to expand...

Nothing but facts
 
hitthestump said:
Cool observation, not sure why it's relevant to my post though.
Click to expand...

Because you are comparing Rizwan's "effective" performance with minnow batsmen. The minnows are supposed to struggle.

Not saying Rizwan is bad.
 
It's mind boggling that some of the Pakistani fans see him(Shan) as our future captain. I assume these people are just impressed by his english speaking skills 🤦
 
ChTab said:
It's mind boggling that some of the Pakistani fans see him(Shan) as our future captain. I assume these people are just impressed by his english speaking skills 🤦
Click to expand...

He is very graceful and stylish
 
PCB is clueless on how to produce and select batsmen for limited overs cricket.

We have hacks or “anchors” and the modern batsman needs to have multiple gears. Need to be able to play 360 degrees, not just tuk tuk and then go for a hoick over mid wicket, or swing wildly and top edge a short ball.
 
Suleiman said:
PCB is clueless on how to produce and select batsmen for limited overs cricket.

We have hacks or “anchors” and the modern batsman needs to have multiple gears. Need to be able to play 360 degrees, not just tuk tuk and then go for a hoick over mid wicket, or swing wildly and top edge a short ball.
Click to expand...

I note you are quite good at offering ideas without any solutions. "Produce batsmen with multiple gears" you cry, as if you have discovered some unknown secret of the ages.

How should it be done exactly? Can you tell us your formula? Or at least share it with Ramiz privately?
 
Rizwan and Shan batting against the Dutch just summed up our WC campaign, insipid timid spineless and abysmal
 
hitthestump said:
I note you are quite good at offering ideas without any solutions. "Produce batsmen with multiple gears" you cry, as if you have discovered some unknown secret of the ages.

How should it be done exactly? Can you tell us your formula? Or at least share it with Ramiz privately?
Click to expand...

I’m not PCB chairman, or a mastermind coach, neither are you or 99% of this forum lol. I understand you’ve gotten thoroughly owned this tournament after seeing your beloved opening pair get exposed, but don’t take it out on the messenger. We’re all arm chair experts here, you’re no different. So drop the holier than thou attitude.

Im willing to try out different opening combinations short term and long term it’s obvious we need to restructure the way our batsmen are being developed.

Beats your strategy of just sitting tight and accepting our fate.
 
All top 5 batsman who played today are accumulators except Fakhar. Shan & Iftikhar are trying to keep their place in the team, Fakhar came back after injury so he was trying to make his presence felt, Bab-Riz played in their usual style. It's surprising that the current team management has literally killed the scope of hard hitters, they just want to see anchoring up to over 15-16. No doubt currently available hard hitters with the team are not the best but if you are not willing to try them at the top even against teams like Zimbabwe & Netherlands to chase small targets that means neither you are giving them exposure nor building the team for future. Management is not even rotating fast bowlers for better workload management, they should have played with best bowlers against Ind & SA only. In matches against Zim, Bang & Netherlands they should have easily rotated the fast bowlers
 
The_KING said:
So glad that selfish Rizwan didn't get a 50 today.
Click to expand...

This is what it has come to, we root against our own players?

If Rizwan is selfish then what is Sharjeel? One guy gives his all on the pitch, the other can't put down the aloo for one day to get into shape for his country.

Furthermore who else is there that can do the job Rizwan can? He is the greatest opener Pakistan have ever produced in their t20 history. Plus he keeps wicket for 20 overs. The guy is unreal.
 
hitthestump said:
This is what it has come to, we root against our own players?

If Rizwan is selfish then what is Sharjeel? One guy gives his all on the pitch, the other can't put down the aloo for one day to get into shape for his country.

Furthermore who else is there that can do the job Rizwan can? He is the greatest opener Pakistan have ever produced in their t20 history. Plus he keeps wicket for 20 overs. The guy is unreal.
Click to expand...

Rizwan was not produced by Pakistan as an opener. Stop spreading this lie!

He is a failed middle order batsman who was propelled by Misbah ul Haq to somehow save his face after he ousted Sarfaraz from the team.

A failed middle order batsman who will return to the middle order and fail again.

Facts
 
Suleiman said:
I’m not PCB chairman, or a mastermind coach, neither are you or 99% of this forum lol. I understand you’ve gotten thoroughly owned this tournament after seeing your beloved opening pair get exposed, but don’t take it out on the messenger. We’re all arm chair experts here, you’re no different. So drop the holier than thou attitude.

Im willing to try out different opening combinations short term and long term it’s obvious we need to restructure the way our batsmen are being developed.

Beats your strategy of just sitting tight and accepting our fate.
Click to expand...

Hold on, you were the one calling management 'clueless'. Now you've written several paragraphs stating that you are clueless too? On that basis I thought you had ideas.

What we need to realise is that sometimes there is no solution. That Pakistan is a middling team at best which never had a chance in Australia. We are not entitled to win any cups in a country where barely any previous Pakistan team has had success.

There is no magic solution to the problem of the middle order or finding reliable hitters.

We were always going down in Australia but our response has been very emotional in the process. All we can do is stay rational and play to our strengths.
 
hitthestump said:
Hold on, you were the one calling management 'clueless'. Now you've written several paragraphs stating that you are clueless too? On that basis I thought you had ideas.

What we need to realise is that sometimes there is no solution. That Pakistan is a middling team at best which never had a chance in Australia. We are not entitled to win any cups in a country where barely any previous Pakistan team has had success.

There is no magic solution to the problem of the middle order or finding reliable hitters.

We were always going down in Australia but our response has been very emotional in the process. All we can do is stay rational and play to our strengths.
Click to expand...

Hence, we will not allow statspadders to get a free ride either!
 
Rizwan getting out for 49 was beautiful karma. Getting a half-century was his only aim today. He couldn’t be least bothered about Pakistan’s NRR.,
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
Shan and Rizwan batted together for 30 balls and made 30 runs, despite being in the easiest of situations.

After nearly getting caught out on 39, Rizwan proceeded to make 10 runs from 12 balls before getting out. No doubt playing for his 50.

Shan's performance was even worse, he made 12 runs from 16 balls, and didn't play a single attacking shot till the ball he got out on.

Shan has now played 15 games. When Pakistan win a match, Shan averages 15 , with a strike rate of of 102 and a highest score of 31.

When Pakistan loose, Shan averages 49 at a strike rate of 129, most of these stats being elevated by his 50s against England where he never made any attempt to chase the score.


These two easily cost us a run rate. We are going nowhere with this approach or with Shan in the side.

After all this what other conclusion can their be other than this it is selfish play?
Click to expand...

What was the management doing, it was just poor all around. Stupid from Rizwan and Shan, even Fakhar, and even more stupid from the management for not sending any message out. If they played like this, it means they were expecting India to beat SA, so in their minds they have already reached a point where they hoping for other results to go their way.
 
Zaz said:
What did you expect? All the criticism and toxic environment just goes to create players that are hesitant, scared and apprehensive of making mistakes and losing the game
Click to expand...

I expected more urgency.
I expected more effort.
I expected a change in the batting order.
I expected one eye on the nrr.

We got none of the above.
 
Saj said:
I expected more urgency.
I expected more effort.
I expected a change in the batting order.
I expected one eye on the nrr.

We got none of the above.
Click to expand...

Saj do you still think they are doing everything for the team or just thinking about padding their stats.

Babar being out of form didn’t even want to let Fakhar open today instead he wanted a nice slow 50 to make himself look good.
 
Saj said:
I expected more urgency.
I expected more effort.
I expected a change in the batting order.
I expected one eye on the nrr.

We got none of the above.
Click to expand...
Who do you suggest should be playing in the middle order?
 
Cric1234 said:
Saj do you still think they are doing everything for the team or just thinking about padding their stats.

Babar being out of form didn’t even want to let Fakhar open today instead he wanted a nice slow 50 to make himself look good.
Click to expand...

Who knows what's going on inside their heads.

But what I will say is that this T20 World Cup has been a real wake-up call.
 
[MENTION=57355]pakistanigoneaussie[/MENTION]

You're forgetting something about Shan "dad's dream" Masood.

So much wrong with our cricket.
The system is rotten.
How they keep getting selected?
 
hitthestump said:
This is what it has come to, we root against our own players?

If Rizwan is selfish then what is Sharjeel? One guy gives his all on the pitch, the other can't put down the aloo for one day to get into shape for his country.

Furthermore who else is there that can do the job Rizwan can? He is the greatest opener Pakistan have ever produced in their t20 history. Plus he keeps wicket for 20 overs. The guy is unreal.
Click to expand...

Rizwan isn't the greatest opener Pakistan has produced in their t20 history, because he isn't an opener to begin with. He is a failed middle order batsman who couldn't hack it in the middle order due to his limitations as a batsman.

And why mention Sharjeel? I am no Sharjeel fan and don't want him anywhere near the Pak team.
 
hitthestump said:
Hold on, you were the one calling management 'clueless'. Now you've written several paragraphs stating that you are clueless too? On that basis I thought you had ideas.

What we need to realise is that sometimes there is no solution. That Pakistan is a middling team at best which never had a chance in Australia. We are not entitled to win any cups in a country where barely any previous Pakistan team has had success.

There is no magic solution to the problem of the middle order or finding reliable hitters.

We were always going down in Australia but our response has been very emotional in the process. All we can do is stay rational and play to our strengths.
Click to expand...

I said what I said because you made it seem As if I was hiding some mysterious overarching masterplan that would solve all of our problems in one fell swoop.

When the truth is that we can at least attempt to solve our opening problem, in the short term at least. You’re not even entertaining the thought of attempting to solve anything. It’s blatantly obvious that our batting is struggling on a couple of fronts. One of them is opening. Whatever you may think of Rizwan and Babar, the reality is they have been found lacking in these conditions and struggle to attain a runrate that is productive and useable to get high scores.

I don’t understand why you are so adamant to even consider other options for openers. Fakhar, Sharjeel, Haider Ali, Saim Ayoub. Am I saying these guys are the next Gilchrist? No. But they have shown the mindset needed that may be what we need in the power play.

Is it possible that they may fail? Sure, it is. But our openers are already flopping in a tournament, including to a complete minnow, so what exactly do we stand to lose?

Yes, I accept we are a middling LOI team. Does that mean we give up in tweaking our strategy and give up trying different solutions, in this case, different opening combos?

I’m not even suggesting something completely unorthodox. We could simply demote Babar at 3, try out Fakhar or whoever else on one end and Rizwan at the other.
 
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Rana said:
Hence, we will not allow statspadders to get a free ride either!
Click to expand...

He is deathly afraid of change for some reason. Even if we agree with him for a second that yes, we are a middling limited overs team, how does that equate to just sticking with a lineup that is not working out and never trying anything different ever again?

We went 2 series with the same strategy and looked dodgy as a batting lineup. If we apply his logic to our fast bowling then Shaheen, Hasnain, Naseem etc would never have gotten a chance and Wahab and Rahat would still be playing, because why change a team’s composition that’s destined to be mediocre? [MENTION=134362]hitthestump[/MENTION]
 
Hawkeye said:
[MENTION=57355]pakistanigoneaussie[/MENTION]

You're forgetting something about Shan "dad's dream" Masood.

So much wrong with our cricket.
The system is rotten.
How they keep getting selected?
Click to expand...

Im trying to be more diplomatic now, but yes that issue has aways been there. He is the Imran Farhat/Fasial Iqbal of his generation, but Shan gets away with it because he is a more affable personality (like Shafiq).
 
Hypocrite fans

Why does it matter to you how the team win, you are the same lot that said pakistan doesn't deserve to be in semis and most of you didn't care.

So why all of a sudden the care?
 
Why blame Shaan only , everyone in the team is playing for his position , including Babar and Rizwan.
 
Totally irrelevant discussions here.
Shan, Rizwan, Ifti, Babar, and Fakhar make a solid top 5.
All Pak needed to get to semi finals was to bat sensibly in the middle order at 7 RPO in both India and Zim game. Instead, Middle order threw wickets away by some mindless hoicks.

Resources determine strategy!
If Pak doesnt have a Miller, SKY, Wade, Buttler, IT IS OK! Don’t try to get Hacky Tullas instead. Nor do you have to score 55 in PP if you don’t have the skills for it.
There are more than one ways to be competitive. Build around your own strengths and resources. Those other teams have other weaknesses. For examples they also don’t have a pace battery like your’s bowling 43% of their deliveries over 140kph.
All that was needed was sensible batting in the middle and put runs on the board vs India and Zim, and have a 4th seamer in the India game.

When you get 360 degree player with massive SR, drop one of these reliable top 5. Until then, runs on the board please.
 
I have stated that before that if batters start batting like rizwan they can average above 100 in t20 where everyone is just trying to not get hit. He is definitely stat padding but the issue is that even for that he needs pitches with low bounce or he just cant.

Shan masood is a limited ability player and most definitely not suited for t20s. No team is playing players like these apart from pakistan.
 
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