Shoaib Malik : 18 years of failures, yet is the golden boy today - Drop him or continue to suffer

[Hawkeye]

Shocking double standards seen in the last few days.

If you were to read the arguments of Malik fans in the last few days/months, someone who hadn't seen Malik bat would probably think of him as the Bradman of Pakistani batting.

Total insanity is to expect a different result even after 18 years of knowing how bad a cricketer is.

Here's his record in ICC tournaments:

World Cup + ICC Champions Trophy combined:

- Average: 25
- Strike Rate: 73
- 21 matches

Malik in Champions Trophy 2017:
- Average 21.

In the last two years, his performance against the top 5 sides:

- Averaging 35.

On the other hand, Hafeez, who is as bad as Malik, continues to get extreme hate, thread after thread being created for him.

Yet, this golden boy of Pakistan cricket continues to get ignored, and his fan club keeps driving attention away from him.

 

[Hamza_]

Malik is fine. Hafeez should go forever

 

[Azzurri]

Never had faith in him. We need to MOVE ON FROM THESE ttfs

 

[Hawkeye]

Never had faith in him. We need to MOVE ON FROM THESE ttfs

but but but Malik is a team man, great cricketer and top bat for Pakistan. It's only Hafeez who has to go. Even though Malik has been worse than Hafeez over these years, though not much difference.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Atleast Hafeez bowls well
Malik should not be in the side and must be replaced by Saad Ali or Haris
Also play Hafeez at 6

 

[Mahmood101]

Uhhm ya but then again his strike rate is above 90 something while hafeez is literally playing test cricket

 

[Cricketfan no 1]

Besides his today pathetic shot he has been useful, if not for his quick runs against SA, we would have been out of the tournament

 

[Macho Mann]

the answer lies in your OP, he is a golden boy of PCB just like amir, hafeez, azhar etc

nothing can be done about it

case closed

 

[Markhor]

Those stats in ICC tournaments are damning.

Its a big problem when our two senior pros in our ODI middle order are Hafeez and Malik. How are youngsters meant to learn from two utterly average players with dire records in big events ? How can you rely on two batsmen that go missing under pressure ?

As I keep saying - experience is fine if they add value but right now they do not other than to bash WI and Zimbabwe attacks. I'd rather we move on from the players who took us to #8 and #9 in the rankings and start afresh.

Now watch the Malik defenders will be on you like white on rice.

 

[zyrus]

You see games he play? He's the only one with some intent out there. Just because he got run-out or edged a hook cheaply doesnt mean that he's the culprit. Talk like this when you got Tendulkar or Kohli sitting out. For now our priority should be getting rid of Hafeez and minimizing the damage that Azhar can do.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Malik is not the future but in the form of his life. He just needs to bat at 4 and replace Hafeez.

 

[zyrus]

Those stats in ICC tournaments are damning.

Its a big problem when our two senior pros in our ODI middle order are Hafeez and Malik. How are youngsters meant to learn from two utterly average players with dire records in big events ? How can you rely on two batsmen that go missing under pressure ?

As I keep saying - experience is fine if they add value but right now they do not other than to bash WI and Zimbabwe attacks. I'd rather we move on from the players who took us to #8 and #9 in the rankings and start afresh.

Now watch the Malik defenders will be on you like white on rice.

Atleast Malik scored a 1000 against India in 2009 CT. I know its 8 years back but he still looks effective. While Hafeez got nothing to defend himself.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You can produce all the stats you like, doesn't change the fact that Malik has been performing pretty well for the last 18 months or so.

 

[Hawkeye]

Those stats in ICC tournaments are damning.

Its a big problem when our two senior pros in our ODI middle order are Hafeez and Malik. How are youngsters meant to learn from two utterly average players with dire records in big events ? How can you rely on two batsmen that go missing under pressure ?

As I keep saying - experience is fine if they add value but right now they do not other than to bash WI and Zimbabwe attacks. I'd rather we move on from the players who took us to #8 and #9 in the rankings and start afresh.

Now watch the Malik defenders will be on you like white on rice.

But, Malik has scored heavily against Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and West Indies recently. Don't you dare question his place in the team - he's actually the best batsman Pakistan has at the moment.
[MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION] --

 

[Encounter_Specialist]

You can't simply drop a player basis of one game. If you see his stats last 12-18 months he's been the best batsman for Pakistan. Typical Pakistani fans making a forum for a player basis on one game.

 

[Pete Rose]

You can't simply drop a player basis of one game. If you see his stats last 12-18 months he's been the best batsman for Pakistan. Typical Pakistani fans making a forum for a player basis on one game.

How did he do in the ten games he played against England and Australia since his comeback. Hopefully you can answer that without telling me how rubbish the others were.

 

[super hitter]

But, Malik has scored heavily against Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and West Indies recently. Don't you dare question his place in the team - he's actually the best batsman Pakistan has at the moment.
[MENTION=107807]Pete Rose[/MENTION] --

Talk relatively bro, you've been flogging a dead horse for the past few months...

The shot that Hafeez played today was below all standards but for you it was probably a CUTE DISMISSAL

 

[Asif321]

he has done well. i think deserves to be in team for now .

 

[IMMY69]

I think this CT should be the last time we see Hafeez, Azhar and Malik represent Pakistan in OdI's.

Hopefully the selectors will have learned that in the shorter format of the game, youth is the way to go forward..

 

[Pete Rose]

You can produce all the stats you like, doesn't change the fact that Malik has been performing pretty well for the last 18 months or so.

No he hasn't. Single Digits against Australia and England. His performance in this tourmanem is a surprise only to those folks who are looking at his average and not considering the competition he played.

 

[super hitter]

How did he do in the ten games he played against England and Australia since his comeback. Hopefully you can answer that without telling me how rubbish the others were.

EPIC,

If you wanna compare Malik with Bradman and Richards then your fault, we never said so.

 

[Greenstorm]

Malik is certainly not the future and therefore he should not be in contention for selection of 2019 WC squad. He should be replaced by some youngster after this CT. But he is still way better then Azhar and Hafeez.

 

[Pete Rose]

EPIC,

If you wanna compare Malik with Bradman and Richards then your fault, we never said so.

No I want is to win against England. And he has 18 years of experience that will not help us in the next game. I would rather with lose with young players who are investment in the future and not guys who've been bottling it for two decades.

 

[usmanraheel]

Why are these threads not created when Malik is doing well ?

Obviously, he is not the best player to play for Pakistan.
Neither is he the best player to play for us right now.
But what will you achieve by dropping him now ?
He has been showing intent, running between the wicket well, taking quick singles, field the best in our team , has years of experience , and shows no attitude.
He is definitely the best senior batsmen in our team and needs to continue performing. If he does not put up numbers regularly ( doesn't matter what team ) then drop him. That would be justified.
I don't think there is any need to bring up numbers from years ago, when he has been a different player in the last year or so.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No he hasn't. Single Digits against Australia and England. His performance in this tourmanem is a surprise only to those folks who are looking at his average and not considering the competition he played.

He's hit match winning knocks against both those sides in his career, certainly more chance of him doing it in this tournament than likely replacement. He's not a top batsman by any means, but the alternatives are worse at the moment.

 

[usmanraheel]

Players to drop are Hafeez and Azhar. I have lost respect for Hafeez, because of his selfish batting. I used to like watching him bat, because he is such a sweet timer of the ball.

Azhar is a respectable guy, but no way in hell should he be playing ODI's.

 

[super hitter]

No I want is to win against England. And he has 18 years of experience that will not help us in the next game. I would rather with lose with young players who are investment in the future and not guys who've been bottling it for two decades.

What future? these 30 year old youngsters who have no potential except for Babar are to invest in the future? Who aren't even concerned about fitness. Which future are you talkin about bro, its not Afridi, Razzaq who debuted at young ages

 

[Pete Rose]

What future? these 30 year old youngsters who have no potential except for Babar are to invest in the future? Who aren't even concerned about fitness. Which future are you talkin about bro, its not Afridi, Razzaq who debuted at young ages

Plenty of replacements in this squad.

 

[Macho Mann]

What future? these 30 year old youngsters who have no potential except for Babar are to invest in the future? Who aren't even concerned about fitness. Which future are you talkin about bro, its not Afridi, Razzaq who debuted at young ages

babar believe me is not the future and not to be invested, he would be as fluke as shoaib malik youngster getting into the team and then overstaying for 20 years

 

[90MPH]

He's been our best ODI bat in the last 2 years, along with Babar in the last year.

He's scoring at a healthy run rate and he looks decent as well.

First kick out the utter mediocre players like Shehzad, Azhar and Hafeez, then Malik can be replaced when the time comes.

I wasn't happy when Malik returned 2 years ago but he has been very good and consistent since his return.

 

[AJM-Q]

Unlike azhar, hafeez and shehzad, malik has adjusted his game post wc 2015 to modern day requirements. The rest have no intent or desire to strike at 90+.

 

[Encounter_Specialist]

How did he do in the ten games he played against England and Australia since his comeback. Hopefully you can answer that without telling me how rubbish the others were.

Please can you tell me, who's been the better Pakistani batsman than Shoaib Malik at the Run chase. At the good strike Rate. Hopefully, you can give attempt to answer this..

 

[Hawkeye]

No he hasn't. Single Digits against Australia and England. His performance in this tourmanem is a surprise only to those folks who are looking at his average and not considering the competition he played.

People confuse some good scores against the minnows. And since they're fans, they hype up the player as the 'best' bat in the team.

Truth is, both Malik and Hafeez have cashed in against the weak sides and consistently failed against the top sides / on big stages.

 

[Abdullah]

People are too busy complaining about babar.
Malik and hafeez both need to take rashid and ali for 85 of the 10 overs and force stokes to bowl 10. He will also go for 60 because he bowls some real filth too.
I'm feeling confident . I'm not expecting anything. Just a good day for the development of babar hasan imad Fakhar shadab amir and sarfaraz

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

he has a game maybe two to save his career.

He has happily surprised me these past 2 years and has saved Pakistan from many embarrassments and has not been selfish like the Professor. However this is where senior players need to stand up. If he cant perform there is little point keeping him with the 2019 wc in mind.

I would personally bring in Talat as a replacement.

 

[Pete Rose]

Please can you tell me, who's been the better Pakistani batsman than Shoaib Malik at the Run chase. At the good strike Rate. Hopefully, you can give attempt to answer this..

Any new player will do fine.

 

[FreePalestine]

I think Malik has averaged 60+ at 90+ strike rate in 2017... those numbers are amongst the top ten batsmen for this calendar year.

 

[Encounter_Specialist]

Any new player will do fine.

But no answer

 

[ahmed16]

No he hasn't. Single Digits against Australia and England. His performance in this tourmanem is a surprise only to those folks who are looking at his average and not considering the competition he played.

Uh actually Pete, Malik was pretty decent in Australia, played quite well in fact, batted with a good strike rate and had perhaps one failure. He was also very good in NZ. He failed in England and thats about the the only time he has failed so far post his comeback. Asking for Malik to be dropped on the basis of a single match is a little farfetched, granted he has had alot of chances but over the past year or so he has performed. And I don't see the issue with Malik when Hafeez is still playing test match cricket at number 4 in a limited overs side.

 

[msb314]

I would rather have Malik than Hafeez.

Yes Malik has his limitations and disappointed today but is a far, far better option than Hafeez who is good for nothing.

 

[BDwarriors]

Malik should be kept till 2019 wc.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

lol which form are you are guys talking about, since his come back, he has bashed west indies, sri lanka and zimbabwe to pad up his stats, during the last 2 years he played 8 odis agains england and averaged 25, he played 4 innings vs australia and though his average shows 69 but that is the most misleading average ever because it is inflated by 2 not outs, his highest score in those 4 innings was 47, malik was always mediocre and will remain so, he was never in super form, he was just bashing minnow attacks of wi, zimboks and lanka

 

[muqarrab]

Shocking double standards seen in the last few days.

If you were to read the arguments of Malik fans in the last few days/months, someone who hadn't seen Malik bat would probably think of him as the Bradman of Pakistani batting.

Total insanity is to expect a different result even after 18 years of knowing how bad a cricketer is.

Here's his record in ICC tournaments:

World Cup + ICC Champions Trophy combined:

- Average: 25
- Strike Rate: 73
- 21 matches

Malik in Champions Trophy 2017:
- Average 21.

In the last two years, his performance against the top 5 sides:

- Averaging 35.

On the other hand, Hafeez, who is as bad as Malik, continues to get extreme hate, thread after thread being created for him.

Yet, this golden boy of Pakistan cricket continues to get ignored, and his fan club keeps driving attention away from him.

Move him at number four for the semi

 

[Syed1]

OP bhai's love for Hafeez is well known. This thread is just a smokescreen to deflect criticism off of Muhammad Hafeez who is a walking wicket and has been for quite some time.

Malik had a couple of bad games but he is the least of our worries at the moment.


Gritty Azhar, Professorial Hafeez and Golden boy Babar are more severe causes for concern.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Average player. Most set ups would have said good bye to him long back. But Pakistan cannot as his experience lends some stability in the absence of Misbah and Younis. Also like Salman butt managed to stay relevant for long by scoring lot of runs against India. Pakistan is never ruthless when it comes to dropping players who don't grow beyond certain level.

 

[PakLFC]

Drop Hafeez and bring in Harris. Shoaib is capable of scoring runs where as I have lost faith in Hafeez.

 

[Lynx]

Yesterday's game against SL was the only time in this tournament a bowler got him out. He was the only one against India (along with Azhar) who showed some real intent but got run out. And if not for his cameo against SA, we might have been behind DL and struggling. He's been our best batsman along with Sarfraz post 2015 WC, and has developed into a very reliable batsman. Some perspective, please. There are far worse problems than him in our current team and they need to be rectified first. Such knee jerk reactions have always been the cause for Pakistan's inconsistency.

 

[Ellipsism]

lol which form are you are guys talking about, since his come back, he has bashed west indies, sri lanka and zimbabwe to pad up his stats, during the last 2 years he played 8 odis agains england and averaged 25, he played 4 innings vs australia and though his average shows 69 but that is the most misleading average ever because it is inflated by 2 not outs, his highest score in those 4 innings was 47, malik was always mediocre and will remain so, he was never in super form, he was just bashing minnow attacks of wi, zimboks and lanka

Funny how you don't mention the team that he's bashed the most.

 

[ToeCrusher2]

Funny how you don't mention the team that he's bashed the most. :tendu

We are talking about his recent "super" Form since his return, based on which he is being hyped up, not his prehistoric records

 

[kingusama92]

Malik has been in good form the past year.

Shahzad, Hafeez, and Azhar Ali need to go before he does. Those three are an abomination to this format.

 

[Pete Rose]

But no answer

Yes because it's a ridiculous question. There are plenty of middle order all rounders. Imad is there fahim is there for example. They will take his slot and then we can play a higher order player after dropping him like sahibzada farhan.

 

[Pete Rose]

Uh actually Pete, Malik was pretty decent in Australia, played quite well in fact, batted with a good strike rate and had perhaps one failure. He was also very good in NZ. He failed in England and thats about the the only time he has failed so far post his comeback. Asking for Malik to be dropped on the basis of a single match is a little farfetched, granted he has had alot of chances but over the past year or so he has performed. And I don't see the issue with Malik when Hafeez is still playing test match cricket at number 4 in a limited overs side.

Really? How many half centuries did he get in those 5 matches

 

[proud_pakistani]

I agree. I don't buy all this Malik has been in great form for 18 months. Malik never wins us any important games. He has done well against mediocre bowling attacks like WI, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh but he goes missing in big games. Hafeez and Malik being the senior men need to be playing a role like what Kumar Sangakarra and Mahela Jayawardene used to for Srilanka. They are the 2 experienced batsmen left in the team and if they can't perform and win us games on the big stages despite their experience they are useless.
It's not fair that all the pressure is always on the bowlers or some of the newer players - (I.e Fakhar Zaman). Pakistani cricketers love the seniority tag, it's time they live up to it.

 

[ads101]

Been frustrating, he has looked in form but has done nothing this tournament. Even Hafeez was use with the ball, and Azhar scored a 50 albeit at a low strike rate. Still Malik has been performing to a high level in recent past and doesn't deserve to be dropped.

Need to cut the dead wood in front, the game is in a terrible position by the time Malik and Sarfraz are coming in. If we don't cut anyone from the team (we should, both Hafeez and Azhar should go but don't think they will until the tournament is up), I would move up Malik and Sarfraz one position, to 4 and 5, and stick Hafeez down at 6 (or drop Hafeez entirely and play Imad there, with Shadab at 7, which would be the better option). I wouldn't even mind Babar Azam dropping down the order for now, it might help him and promoting Sarfraz and Malik to 3 and 4.

 

[cricketInsight]

Been frustrating, he has looked in form but has done nothing this tournament.

We won the SA game on DLS because of Malik - Hafeez tried his best to pull us behind the DLS target. That would have been embrassing.

 

[cricketInsight]

I agree. I don't buy all this Malik has been in great form for 18 months.

What nonsense?

1. Malik has been not out in 5 out of 8 successful Pakistan chases since 2015 i.e. he lead the team to victory.

2. He has the highest number of not outs in all Pakistan wins since 2015.

 

[KyoOne]

Hopefully he's discarded for good post CT

 

[arehaan]

I dont feel Malik has done too badly over the last 1 year. He is playing positive. Contributed significantly to the win vs South Africa and is the least of our worries at this stage.

 

[ahmed16]

Really? How many half centuries did he get in those 5 matches

Go and have a look yourself chief. In fact come back here and tell me, I'd love to know how many 'single digit scores' he got on the trans tasmanian tours, because that was your issue wasn't it before fli flopping to number of fifties?

 

[Commander]

Malik should be the least of our concerns in the batting lineup. He has been very good since his return. During the match, they showed his average since the WC and it was around 60+

Get rid of Hafeez and Azhar from the current lineup.

 

[waleed88]

Shocking double standards seen in the last few days.

If you were to read the arguments of Malik fans in the last few days/months, someone who hadn't seen Malik bat would probably think of him as the Bradman of Pakistani batting.

Total insanity is to expect a different result even after 18 years of knowing how bad a cricketer is.

Here's his record in ICC tournaments:

World Cup + ICC Champions Trophy combined:

- Average: 25
- Strike Rate: 73
- 21 matches

Malik in Champions Trophy 2017:
- Average 21.

In the last two years, his performance against the top 5 sides:

- Averaging 35.

On the other hand, Hafeez, who is as bad as Malik, continues to get extreme hate, thread after thread being created for him.

Yet, this golden boy of Pakistan cricket continues to get ignored, and his fan club keeps driving attention away from him.

The only time he manages to score big is when he has dropped catches in his favor... which is basically why he was man of the series vs West indies

 

[waleed88]

What nonsense?

1. Malik has been not out in 5 out of 8 successful Pakistan chases since 2015 i.e. he lead the team to victory.

2. He has the highest number of not outs in all Pakistan wins since 2015.

Which run chases are those??

Besides the one in which we chased down 300 vs England (where he tonked around a spinner in a dead rubber) what total was a high scoring affair and he took us to victory?

 

[waleed88]

I think Malik has averaged 60+ at 90+ strike rate in 2017... those numbers are amongst the top ten batsmen for this calendar year.

Don't go on the numbers alone, plenty of not outs have inflated his average, which is actually in the 30s

 

[Pete Rose]

Go and have a look yourself chief. In fact come back here and tell me, I'd love to know how many 'single digit scores' he got on the trans tasmanian tours, because that was your issue wasn't it before fli flopping to number of fifties?

I know how many he got. But happy to have you reveal your standards of excellence

 

[Amjid Javed]

Hafeez and Malik are both walking wickets in ODIs in testing conditions outside the UAE/Asia. Yet there facination with there so called "all round" abilites means these liabilities remain in the side! ! can anyone confidently say these guys will improve in 2 years time come the next world cup?

 

[FreePalestine]

Don't go on the numbers alone, plenty of not outs have inflated his average, which is actually in the 30s

not outs are a good thing. Means he finished games, which is his role at no. 5...

 

[ahmed16]

I know how many he got. But happy to have you reveal your standards of excellence

I'm also happy to know that in your eyes double digit scores are single digit ones.

How many single digit scores btw?

 

[Mainul]

Pakistan should move on from both of them.Their expiry date is over long ago.But if you tell me to compare them to each other i shall say that Malik is better.

 

[waleed88]

not outs are a good thing. Means he finished games, which is his role at no. 5...

Not neccessarily, it could be he scores 20-30 runs in the final overs of the game, and carries on with a 30 in the next game which makes it look like he scores a 60... when in fact he was just not out the last time

 

[proud_pakistani]

What nonsense?

1. Malik has been not out in 5 out of 8 successful Pakistan chases since 2015 i.e. he lead the team to victory.

2. He has the highest number of not outs in all Pakistan wins since 2015.

The only things I can remember of note are a 100 against Windies recently, a 40 odd when Pakistan chased down 221 against Australia (this innings was not under pressure and had already been set up by other batsmen like Hafeez and Babar Azam). The other was a 70 odd in a dead rubber against England.

I am not saying he is bad but he needs to step up more than he is. He perhaps needs to bat higher up if he is to make a bigger impact. I think number 6 is not suitable for him.

 

[waleed88]

Go and have a look yourself chief. In fact come back here and tell me, I'd love to know how many 'single digit scores' he got on the trans tasmanian tours, because that was your issue wasn't it before fli flopping to number of fifties?

the 50 which he got the only game we won was a 220 run chase, in which hafeez got a 70 odd, and Malik got dropped on zero off pat cummins...

Same match Hafeez got dropped at 12-13 runs too..

both of them are the same, can't perform unless given a chance

 

[New Yorker]

Shocking double standards seen in the last few days.

If you were to read the arguments of Malik fans in the last few days/months, someone who hadn't seen Malik bat would probably think of him as the Bradman of Pakistani batting.

Total insanity is to expect a different result even after 18 years of knowing how bad a cricketer is.

Here's his record in ICC tournaments:

World Cup + ICC Champions Trophy combined:

- Average: 25
- Strike Rate: 73
- 21 matches

Malik in Champions Trophy 2017:
- Average 21.

In the last two years, his performance against the top 5 sides:

- Averaging 35.

On the other hand, Hafeez, who is as bad as Malik, continues to get extreme hate, thread after thread being created for him.

Yet, this golden boy of Pakistan cricket continues to get ignored, and his fan club keeps driving attention away from him.

a flawed player who never stood up against pace. not as good a bowler as hafeez, but he is not playing as a bowler. and hafeez is still not good enough either with bat or ball.

 

[the Great Khan]

Malik? cmon [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] how can you denigrate the greatest cricketing brain in pakistan? I mean who can forget his great inings of the past and his triple hundreds in australia?

 

[Fire Bird]

He is a talent and needs to be persisted with

 

[ads101]

We won the SA game on DLS because of Malik - Hafeez tried his best to pull us behind the DLS target. That would have been embrassing.

It was still just 16 runs, and we were ahead by 19 in the end. As I said Malik did look in good form, I think he would have scored more if he had the chance to bat longer. Not only is Hafeez and Azhar not performing, Babar our best batsman and the guy we rely on to make up most of the innings is looking shaky. We need someone up the order who can potentially make a big innings at a good SR. At least one of Malik and Sarfraz need to bat higher, we aren't going to make big totals when opener, three and four are all failing.

 

[JaDed]

Wish you had dropped him before the Saffer match

 

[Geil]

Malik is the most reliable of the poor batsmen that Pakistan have now and they will become more poor in their batting if they drop him.People do not realise Pakistan batting is very very poor when compared to other 7 teams which are ahead in the ICC ODI ranking .To me its very clear except for one or two batsmen no batsmen is reliable in Pakistan batting lineup this is the best of the worst lot of batsmen that are playing in the team now

 

[Markhor]

Pakistani batsmen's records in ICC tournaments since the turn of the century (5+ innings):



Dismal records for Hafeez and Malik.

 

[cric_fanatic]

How has him and Hafeez managed to hold to their spots for so long in the team. They would struggle to even get into a state team in India. Appalling!

 

[Arsal_AK]

Let's see;

Was doing fine against India till Hafeez ran him out.

Great cameo against SA till the rain came, put us ahead on DL, remained not out.

Had a poor game vs SL.

Not to mention he has been averaging over 50 at a SR of around 95, for the past two years.

Conclusion: Let's drop him, how could he fail in one game ( two if you count India)- especially when we have the likes of Hafeez, Shehzad, Azhar and Immad in the team, who are performing so well.