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Shoaib Malik in ODIs in England: Avg 13, SR 64 in 24 matches; How can he succeed in ICC tournaments?
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Varun
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He has political connections so he can remain in the team and be in the limelight for more some more years. If these years coincide with major cricketing events, he doesn't care. But if they fall in a time where cricketing relations between Pakistan and India are normalized and he gets a gig in the IPL, even better babe!
Plain as day.
Plain as day.
Ellipsism
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He's just being used as a stop gap until we groom some of our youngsters.
He still is Pakistan's best LOI batsman and has been for the last year is so. Whether you like it or not.
He might play the CT but highly doubt he is in contention for the next ODI and T20 WC.
He still is Pakistan's best LOI batsman and has been for the last year is so. Whether you like it or not.
He might play the CT but highly doubt he is in contention for the next ODI and T20 WC.
pakistanigoneaussie
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honestly he is least of our problems. Havent been a fan of his lter stage of his career but her merits a spot though preferably a 5, probably is our batting line up all want to at at 3 or 4
saeed5646
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Hafeez is pakistan best odi batsmen from last 3 years Shoaib malik is minnow basher and struggle against top team
Amjid Javed
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Always been a useless batsmen outside of Asia conditions in ODIs, god knows why hes still in the team.
Pete Rose
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it is what it is. he has a type of odi game, that sarfaraz can fulfill. Maybe till a year ago I was very supportive. but now him and sarfaraz in the same team, is not doable.
Malik has ALWAYS been a legend against ANY top 8 side.
Be it Asia or outside Asia, so you're being VERY generous if you're only targeting him outside Asia. You can't expect him to score runs consistently.
Unless of course, it's Zimbabwe on an easy pitch and no movement with the ball.
One of the worst bats to ever play for us.
Be it Asia or outside Asia, so you're being VERY generous if you're only targeting him outside Asia. You can't expect him to score runs consistently.
Unless of course, it's Zimbabwe on an easy pitch and no movement with the ball.
One of the worst bats to ever play for us.
One thing the guys can learn from him is the dab down to third man at will against any type of bowling. Gets his innings started and can take on the spinners at will too. That is where I believe he has the edge on Sarfaraz- but Sarfaraz pulled his innings back nicely before the rain break
I think we should persevere with him until CT at number 6.
Pete Rose
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the number 6 batsman in an odi side has two roles: if there is a collapse he has to play risk free cricket of 5 runs an over and then take the responsibility to bash the bowling (pacers and spinners) for ten an over without getting dismissed. or he has to come in the last ten overs or less and start bashing pretty quickly. To do any of those he has to be good against pace an spin.
What the number six CANNOT do is play a supporting role of rotating the strike and hoping that numbers 7 onward will do the heavy lifting. He could do that if he had a number 5 that was batting with him who is good against pace AND spin. right now sarfaraz is number 5 and malik 6. Thats just one batsman occupying two spots.
sensible-indian-fan
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Malik is an excellent LOI player except against decent attacks.
Here decent doesn't mean ATG or very good.
It just means decent.
India and minnow basher.
Here decent doesn't mean ATG or very good.
It just means decent.
India and minnow basher.
Pete Rose
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sarfaraz is the new malik (but marginally better against pace): cant play both and that too at 5 and 6.
pakistanigoneaussie
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The best we can do for this series is this
1. Sharjeel
2. Azhar - dont want him but will play series out
3. Babar
4. Sarfraz
5. Malik
6. Rizwan - not a number 6 either but can do better then anyone else we have with us
7. Nawaz
8. Yasir/Imad
9. Amir - needs a break but we cant afford it
10. Hassan
11. Riaz
1. Sharjeel
2. Azhar - dont want him but will play series out
3. Babar
4. Sarfraz
5. Malik
6. Rizwan - not a number 6 either but can do better then anyone else we have with us
7. Nawaz
8. Yasir/Imad
9. Amir - needs a break but we cant afford it
10. Hassan
11. Riaz
the only shot Malik knows is that cut towards the third man. And he's not that good against spinners either.Sarfraz is a big upgrade over Malik in terms of batting.
Sarf can consistently score at a good pace, above 80-90 strike rate, which Malik can't. He can milk or attack not only spinners, but also to some extent against pacers too. Obviously, he's no Umar Akmal against pace.
But in terms of batting, Sarf >>>> Malik.
The type of bat we need in the middle order to keep rotating the strike and be consistent, too.
Malik loses his mind against any decent opposition.
Read my reply above for a comparison. Sarfraz is a huge upgrade over Malik.
#GreenRoars
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He was never good outside Asia, he is not good and never will be.
Malik is capable of getting the big shots away more than sarfaraz.
So sarfaraz at 5 is correct facing most of the spin.
Malik proved in t20s that he can be decent in the last 15 overs of an odi and can score quickly. At the moment there is nobody better to play the number 6 role than malik. Yesterday he got out at the wrong time
Pete Rose
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Even so, greater reason not to play both. But I also don't think sarfaraz is a good number 5. It should be Azhar, sharjeel, babar, sarfaraz, nawaz, Rizwan
Black Zero
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/iccct2009/engine/current/match/415278.html
Only victory we have vs India in an ICC tournament.
and check where the match was played and who was MoM
super hitter
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Pathetic!
out of the 16 ODI's you mentioned, 15 ODI's took place years ago! Have this ever happened in the history of cricket that a player is picked or dropped on the basis of his statistics 6 years ago?
First of all, the stats you've picked to prove his liability are biased.
Now talking about yesterdays match, be very honest; did you expect him to score even a 30 against the in form English pace attack coming at number 6 late down the order? Knowing that pace is his weakness and spinners are whom he dominates.
Mp812
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Malik will come good when it matters just like younis did in 4th test with his double hundred.
Malik will play glorious innings in Worldcup
Malik will play glorious innings in Worldcup
Pete Rose
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Cant have him and sarfaraz int he same team.
Black Zero
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Malik is here to stay.
Inzi has full confidence in him.
Inzi has full confidence in him.
aloo paratha
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What the hell, every one knows he's been a different player after his comeback.. Well not everyone but anyone who can look past the bias.
These stats you've brought up are from years ago. Yesterday he was at the back end of the innings and got out trying to slog, wow our standard is so high even Australians don't give their players this much crap when they get out slogging.
These stats you've brought up are from years ago. Yesterday he was at the back end of the innings and got out trying to slog, wow our standard is so high even Australians don't give their players this much crap when they get out slogging.
miandadrules
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Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Please do check out the scores at Centurion, not just by Malik but by all players.
What's Malik record in other grounds in South Africa?
Black Zero
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GreenRoars claimed that Malik was never good outside Asia, he was not good and never would be.
I refuted his claim by fact.
Why should I check score by others?...did I claim that other suck?
MoYo also performed good, however Malik was best among 22 players thats why he was MoM.
and Centurion is still outside Asia.
and lastly, that win is still the only win we have vs India in an ICC tournament.
JibranAnsari
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Malik's time will soon be over , don't expect him to score against the 90 mph plus bowlers in england. Hope that Harris is available for west indies tour.
The_Odd_One
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As someone said earlier, he is stop gap solution until Harris is back. I do not see a place for him in the middle order having Babar, Harris, Sarfraz, and Rizwan.
miandadrules
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Are you sure?
I know the truth is a bit of an anathema for you but are you sure you don't want to retract this?
Here's a suggestion, take of your Mia Malik shades off, take a deep breath and just do a quick search on cricinfo.
Malik averages 50 in S. Africa twice. Malik also averages 50 as one down. The problem is position number. He is being sent down the lower order. How do you expect lower order to score double century in last ten overs, forget century? As long as he is sent down the lower order, his average will take hit. Main issue is Azhar and Hafeez, not Malik. Azhar hogs all the delivery, Hafeez is liable as one down while Malik is asked to perform impossible task as lower order. It is easy to manipulate with stats, the example of this thread is in front of you.
miandadrules
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Can you show his scores at different grounds in South Africa?
Totally agree on every other point. His average is only due to him batting down the order and down to people manipulating his stats. It's only a matter of time until he breaks the 50+ average again.
You must be trolling, the whole purpose of batsman is to bat against top bowling, otherwise weak attack anybody can bat....
First of all I don't agree with this statement, he is not going to bully anybody in modern era...Nobody is going to play 4 spinners against us, he is good only at bashing spinners, as soon at speedo meter goes above 140, there goes the legend of Malik, Hafeez and Sarfraz... They are allergic to speed or maybe doctors have recommended them not to face them, its not good for heart...After all Cricket is just a game, health is lot more important!!
Pakistan fans keep on bringing up useless stats of Malik, Hafeez and Sarfraz against weak attacks or favorable conditions. What is the point of such a batsmen?? - You are never going to move forward...
Black Zero
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You have to ask ICC to scratch/retract that match/MoM.
or ask someone to photoshop some map and include Centurion in Asia.
This is BS, they all (Malik, Hafeez and Sarfraz) cannot handle pace. Malik had 13 come back test(means 13 times he has to make a comeback in test 11, that's awfully lot) out of 33 for a reason. He is not a one down batsman, has to boss the opposition seamers. He was move down the order because he cannot do that. We saw that also in his 242 innings in UAE, he failed after that at one down...
Harris, Babar and Sami are much better player of pace then these(Hafeez, Malik, Sarfraz). Why in the world Pakistan should give away the key one down position to players whose strength is only bashing spinners???
Even at number 6, spinners are taken off now, you will hardly see spinner in last 10, so scope of these three is narrow at tail end as well... Top teams(AUS,SA,ENG,NZ) are not going to play two spinners against us. You need batsmen who can score against them, those have to be players who can play pace as strength, not the one who try to hide from it...
miandadrules
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Once again, are you sure you don't want to retract the statement that it is our only win over India in ICC competition?
Flat_Track_Bully
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We tried this and he failed miserably.
I don't what averages in SA because WC is in England and I don't care what he did 10 years ago.
Against quality teams outside of the sub continent he is useless just like Hafeez.
We need to get rid of both Malik and Hafeez, at best they will give us pretty 20s and do nothing against quality lineups.
I'm thinking Haris Sohail and Saud Shakeel to replace?
This thread also based on 10 years ago. I agree we should stick with the present condition. Last year, he averaged more than 50 nonstop. Based on that average alone, he is the top pick for the upcoming Champion Trophy and ODI WC.
The_Odd_One
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This thread also based on 10 years ago. I agree we should stick with the present condition. Last year, he averaged more than 50 nonstop. Based on that average alone, he is the top pick for the upcoming Champion Trophy and ODI WC.
Just like Hafeez averaged 60 in last 2 years in tests?
QalandarFan
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I agree, I think we have two batsman who can do this either Amir Yamin or Mohammad Rizwan. Preferably Yamin at 6, Rizwan at 5, Sarfraz at 4 (C), and Babar at 3, with Sami and Sharjeel opening.
Except that Hafeez is choker. He will choke in major tournament, important series. Hafeez was busy being the bunny of Dale Steyn while Malik and Misbah were busy averaging above 50 in the same series.
miandadrules
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Don't let the facts get in your way.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
The_Odd_One
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Except that Hafeez is choker. He will choke in major tournament, important series. Hafeez was busy being the bunny of Dale Steyn while Malik and Misbah were busy averaging above 50 in the same series.
And Malik is not a choker? This has to be the joke of the century! Averages 30 in WCs and 25 in Champions Trophy.
Could not finish the game against England.
He, Hafeez, and Afridi are at the same place in the spectrum of choking.
daytrader
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Malik at 6 is a liability that being said though I think he is one of our consistent performers and a vital member of the playing Xi. To maximize his utility he needs to play in the top order, no latter than 5. In the current squad I would like to see Hafeez dropped but since that's not going to happen we need to utilize him properly. I think Hafeez's game would be a better suited for 6 rather than one down. We can move everyone one spot up and play Hafeez at 6 until we find a proper finisher. This way the grafters (Malik, Sarfraz) can play out the middle overs rather than having them go after the ball. Once they get settled both these guys get a positive strike rate. If the run rate is slow we can send out Gul, Wahab or Imad as pinch hitters.
My Xi for the next match would be
Sharjeel (Aggressor)
Azhar (Anchor)
Babar (Dynamic or at least hoping he is)
Malik (Grafter)
Sarfraz (Grafter)
Hafeez (Aggressor)
Nawaz
Imad
Wahab
Gul
Amir
My Xi for the next match would be
Sharjeel (Aggressor)
Azhar (Anchor)
Babar (Dynamic or at least hoping he is)
Malik (Grafter)
Sarfraz (Grafter)
Hafeez (Aggressor)
Nawaz
Imad
Wahab
Gul
Amir
Suleiman
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He's just taking it easy a little bit, but is fit enough to fire for 2 to 3 more years iA.
Ability wise, he averaged 50 in South Africa. Present wise, he averages 50. Either way he is top pick for the Champion Trophy and World Cup. The problems are the struggling Hafeez and delivery hogging batsman Azhar. Concentrate on them for the time being.
Where is this average of 50 coming from? - His average is 35 and SR of 80 [emoji84][emoji84][emoji84]
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He is on vacation this year??[emoji79][emoji79][emoji79]
Real vacation would help with the easy part for Mr Bradman, as if there is no question about his Highness [emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]
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Suleiman
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Odi and t20 series are times to take it easy (just a bit) and experiment with shots and game plans.
Brings his A-game to tournaments. He's a pro, think people need to realize he knows what he's doing.
There are at least 4 to 5 players which I can come up which are better then him. Today dilshan retired or should I say persuaded to retire as they are looking at the next world cup. Mind you he averages around 48 or something in the past 2 years plus hasn't been playing minnows. If players like dilshan can retire we should get rid of players like malik, hafeez umer gul and other players who are over 35 or are useless. We can never move forward with these players. Time to get rid of them forever.
His overall average is yes. But he averages 50 in South Africa where the game is dominated by fast bowlers. He has done okay in other areas too. Hafeez is choker full time. Outside Asia, he is totally minnow. He even failed against Ireland in Ireland.
If he was choker, why would he average 50 in South Africa? Why would he average top match finisher in Pakistan cricket? Whereas for Hafeez; he even chokes against Ireland in Ireland.
aloo paratha
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Funny how when Sharjeel scored vs Ireland everyone was like wow and he fails in the 1st ODI but no one really minds.
Malik scores vs Ireland, everyone is like "minnow basher"
Double standards, personal agendas
Malik scores vs Ireland, everyone is like "minnow basher"
Double standards, personal agendas
the Great Khan
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love posts like the above..clearly you havent watched much cricket..one of the worst players to ever play for us..
the Great Khan
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Funny how when Sharjeel scored vs Ireland everyone was like wow and he fails in the 1st ODI but no one really minds.
Malik scores vs Ireland, everyone is like "minnow basher"
Double standards, personal agendas
no sharjeel hasnt played 233 odis thats why..or is it too hard to comprehend?? malik is useless and he may as well just retire and give another player a chance..pathetic weak and useless player..one of the worst that has ever played for us..
aloo paratha
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Most know that he's a changed, improved player and rather than bringing his record from last year, they bring his record from 10 years ago.
Now you'll say "He only played Vs Zimbabwe". Well he's gonna perform against who he plays. Did well in Sri Lanka too. "But Sri Lankan bowling is weak". Sure, didn't do that good vs England, still scored a 50 but "Can't play against any good teams", right because 3 failures is such a huge sample size.
Maybe he'll fail, I don't know. But no doubt he gets a lot of unnecessary hate.
aloo paratha
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I love how you didn't argue a single point I said and instead went back to that "233 ODIs" crap.
the Great Khan
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it is the single most damning piece of evidence that simply destroys any other "argument" that you can make!! 233 odis and what does he have to show for it?? nothing, zip nada, continues to look like a gully player..pathetic..
What happened to the legendary 330 against holding, ambrose and walsh? How can he become gully player overnight?
What happened to the legendary 330 against holding, ambrose and walsh? How can he become gully player overnight?
Why you are forgetting the most damming stats about Malik's Career, he had 13 come back test matches in only 35 test matches. This also shows he had great Pawaya, keep coming back to test team and failing again and again, probably played in 3 different positions and never settle anywhere. Malik, Hafeez and Afridi type players are worse thing happen to Pakistani cricket in this century.
This builds bad culture, now every other aspiring allrounder is like them, cannot bat in top five or bowl at top 4 bowlers, result is terrible quality at top level. Standards are too low as long as we have these types of seniors team will further fall. These three after playing for 15 years, never played once as top 5 batsmen or top 4 bowler. This is not what allrounder means back in 80s and 90s, Imran and Wasim were always world class bowlers, batting or no batting, world feared and respected them. These guys have no respect even by most loyal fans, only their family can defend them shamelessly.
Afridi could not lead one series as top bowler, as soon as Ajmal is gone, so goes Afridi's effectiveness. Hafeez is the worse opener ever played from Asia in west, how low one can go. And Malik's comeback test record explains everything you need to know about his batting. How anybody can defend these guys with an ounce of intellectual honesty?? [emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]
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Can you please explain me why he has 13 comeback tests in only 35 tests?? - who in the world get so many chances and still failed. [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]
Sami got second chance against one of the best attack England has every produced at their home and he grabbed with both hands, Malik got 13 such chances and never able to find a place in Pakistani test team. We are not talking about India or Australian test team, it's Pakistan where batting standards are too low[emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]
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msb314
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I would continue to persist with Malik for the time being.
Hafeez's position is more insecure imo since he is not a natural leader or mentor like Malik and is only a few poor scores from being dropped form ODI's just like he was dropped in Tests.
Malik is not the greatest but atleast has a solid year in 2015 behind him. Hafeez has also done well recently but his loss of bowling and poor Test form will add additional pressure on him.
Hafeez's position is more insecure imo since he is not a natural leader or mentor like Malik and is only a few poor scores from being dropped form ODI's just like he was dropped in Tests.
Malik is not the greatest but atleast has a solid year in 2015 behind him. Hafeez has also done well recently but his loss of bowling and poor Test form will add additional pressure on him.
aloo paratha
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Square Drive
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Should be dropped if he fails the next 4 games on the trot. Same with Hafeez.
Both will bounce back, though.
Both will bounce back, though.
Yooo, this selective picking of stats is funny as hell
Is he playing a test match??
What he has done in ODIs? - After 233 matches, 35 avg, and 80 SR, is that earth shattering ?? [emoji79][emoji79][emoji79]
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People saying 6 is too low.
This is where we are going wrong. The approach HAS to change. Rather than being 180-3 after 40 overs we need to be 230-4. We need to go hard earlier which means we will lose more wickets. So malik will be in by the 30 -35 over mark. ( not like the he old days where moyo and inzi used to bat till 40 overs and then number 6 and 7 come in and do some damage.
Now u need numbers 7 and 8 and even 9 to dish out in the slog overs, so 6 is not too low. And malik has proved in t20 that he can come in with 12 overs to go and get a 40 50 off 25 balls anyway.
So NO 6 is not too low. We need better hitters at 7 and 8.
If u want to play the old school cricket of saving wickets for last 10 and try to be 180 odd for 3 , then 6 is too low coz malik shouldn't be coming in at 42 over mark.
This is where we are going wrong. The approach HAS to change. Rather than being 180-3 after 40 overs we need to be 230-4. We need to go hard earlier which means we will lose more wickets. So malik will be in by the 30 -35 over mark. ( not like the he old days where moyo and inzi used to bat till 40 overs and then number 6 and 7 come in and do some damage.
Now u need numbers 7 and 8 and even 9 to dish out in the slog overs, so 6 is not too low. And malik has proved in t20 that he can come in with 12 overs to go and get a 40 50 off 25 balls anyway.
So NO 6 is not too low. We need better hitters at 7 and 8.
If u want to play the old school cricket of saving wickets for last 10 and try to be 180 odd for 3 , then 6 is too low coz malik shouldn't be coming in at 42 over mark.
ask_analyse_act
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another thing to note in this, how much he avgd outside asia batting at no.3 against top 8 test teams... He might be a transformed batsman now but is he the good no.3 pak have..
ask_analyse_act
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exactly. atleast i have one more person thinking the same way as me.. pls check post #29 here
the top 5 should be explosive enough and their SR should not go less than 90 at any point of their inns in the first 40 overs...
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-hitters-Time-to-have-another-look-at-Maqsood
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I'm sure mickey arthur will be on this.
If hafeez can get back to bowling it will help big time. That will be it for imad and we can get a Yamin or even hammad at number 7 or 8 with nawaz and they won't have to worry too much about bowling
ask_analyse_act
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but the problem is can azhar bat at SR 90, looks like he cant, even if he cant rotate, he should eye two boundaries an over in the first 10 to keep him in the modern day ODI.
If he doesn't he will have to go. I don't have a problem too much with his strike rotation like u say. Just look to take on the bowlers and go over the top.
He is trying to improve his running between the wickets evidently though but obviously placing the ball where u want is more important.
He needs to show in england that he can do it because this is where CT and WC is rather than on the dead wickets of uae where u can plonk ur front foot down and go over the top
Even that is boosted by bashing poor Hong Kong and Zimbabwe. Excluding them, it is
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=batting
*syed59*
Local Club Star
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
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- 2,127
People can tolerate Malik, Hafeez but will jump out in rage if you mention YK or Alam or Shafiq.
Example of hypocrisy and lack of cricketing sense.
Example of hypocrisy and lack of cricketing sense.
Not should but MUST be dropped. Not just him but Hafeez and Sarfraz too. No free lunch for these old recycled players [emoji84][emoji84][emoji84]
Micky will make major changes after hammering in first 3 matches within this series. There are too many holes in current team, it has to be rebuilt on stronger foundation. These guys are supporting cast not main character, you cannot have 3/4 major batsmen who all can do dodgy supporting role, they cannot play big shots, they cannot play pace or quality seamer... These are all characteristics of no 8/9 rank team batsmen, if we are happy where we are then it's fine, carry them till next World Cup [emoji86][emoji86][emoji86]
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Square Drive
Test Star
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- Aug 30, 2011
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Bhai Sarfraz just scored a run-a-ball 50 last game...
Can't kick everyone out just because they're around 30.
Sarfraz cannot play in last 15 or first 15 overs, his life is limited, only purchasing his test form. Can only play one shot, never developed anything in last two years beyond sweep... He does not have reflexes, power nor technique to play seamers... He will be out of the LOIs team in 12-18 months.
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Square Drive
Test Star
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- Aug 30, 2011
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You don't necessarily need shots or reflexes to bat at #5 (which is where he'll be batting in the near future), especially in a team like Pakistan, where you're in by the 20th over more often than not.
All Sarfraz has to do then is just dab it around for singles for the next 15-ish overs, like he did in the last game.
I disagree with that approach. You cannot settle on players who cannot score against quality bowling unit nor step up the gear, it 2016 not 1996, where par score is 300+, Pakistani batting unit max capacity is 300, unless Sharjeel blast away.
These guys are old school with limited technique and skill set. India got rid of Murli Vijay, Pujara because they cannot play LOIs...
This Pakistani team has another major handicap in hitting sixes, only Sharjeel can hit... For last 2/3 years Pakistan was using Umar and Afridi as power hitter. You need more, batting culture needs to be overhauled.
Look at England, they rebooted LOI team with completely different set of players. They are building team on power, they have 3/4 bowlers who can all bowl at 90 mph consistently. They have 6 players who can hit sixes. WI Won two Worldcups on power, AUS won last World Cup on Powe of Johnson and Starc, plus power hitters... Pakistan has to do the same, otherwise result will be same as we had in hockey. You got to accept the reality, LOI is all about power!!! - it's power first and then other skills.
Test cricket is still old fashion, and may remain same for long time, guys like Herat, Anderson, Younis, Cook etc can be successful. That's way England separate the two team pretty much completely. They have done things very smartly after 2015 WC debacle.
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Sports_Psychologist
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Bhai khatam hogaya hai Malik, he can't hit fast bowlers but Inzamam loves him and he'll stay in the team till WC,
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