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Should Pakistan do a revamp of the Test side?

Citizen4

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Should Pakistan do a revamp of the test side and throw out the dead wood and underperformers like Australia did after they lost 5 consecutive tests?

Should bring new players from the first class I'm sure at least half of them will perform.

It worked for Australia.
 
test side lost 6 matches in a row (1st time in Pak history)
and chief selector reacted like it's not a big deal and did not show any sign of making the things right instead he seems satisfied with the team
:sigh:
 
We have tried this umpteen times. At the moment there is clearly a lack of talent in Pakistan then there is the never ending problem of nepotism where the poor will find it so hard to break through.
 
Yes, bring back Ajmal, Gul, Iftekhar & make MoHa Captain.
 
We have tried this umpteen times. At the moment there is clearly a lack of talent in Pakistan then there is the never ending problem of nepotism where the poor will find it so hard to break through.

This is the biggest myth to keep the buddy brigade comfortable. 3 years back Iqbal Qasim said the same thing, when PAK played an ODI Series in SAF with 4 spinners (MoHa, Malik, Ajmal, Afidi) & JK being the only player under 29, in some matches - that's 2 years before next WC.

Talent is an excuse - bring players at right age (that's U23, genuine age - whatever adjustment requires with official age for that), give them few matches; those who have it will survive. Also, if Selection team can't judge talent & potential from the look of the players, then the tea boy of PCB can replace Inzi, as long as he can click CricInfo & add numbers.
 
This is the biggest myth to keep the buddy brigade comfortable. 3 years back Iqbal Qasim said the same thing, when PAK played an ODI Series in SAF with 4 spinners (MoHa, Malik, Ajmal, Afidi) & JK being the only player under 29, in some matches - that's 2 years before next WC.

Talent is an excuse - bring players at right age (that's U23, genuine age - whatever adjustment requires with official age for that), give them few matches; those who have it will survive. Also, if Selection team can't judge talent & potential from the look of the players, then the tea boy of PCB can replace Inzi, as long as he can click CricInfo & add numbers.

We have given chances to so many newcomers who never deliver. To many to mention here but you know what the names are. Are you saying there is a lot of talent in Pak?
 
We have given chances to so many newcomers who never deliver. To many to mention here but you know what the names are. Are you saying there is a lot of talent in Pak?

What I am saying is that, situation is not that much desperate that PAK'll send identical 16 to UAE, NZ & AUS. It's not that dark that the team's average age should reach to 33, officially. It's not that MoHa is Majid Khan or YK is Javed or Wahab is Wasim or Misbah is Imran .... that, these expired cricketers will be carried for few years after their expiry.

Regarding talent, I actually don't even agree with the concept of talent. There are lots of skilled players (it'll be the case always if one sports is by far popular in a population 200mn), but their game is at raw level - they are good batsman or bowler, not a professional cricketer. One has to pick them at right age & give them to polish their skills - which County cricket did for PCB.

I don't agree that PAK has given enough chances to youngsters. First - right players were not picked; whatever young player was picked was done as a stop gap, often to fail so that oldy bunch can return. 2nd - they never tried to groom a back-up so that there is a hollow & few players become invincible - the idea is to prepare a similar player if MoHa or Malik or Wahab fails - one can't pick a specialist batsman as MoHa's back-up & then when he fails with bat, use his bowling as the trump card, just one example. 3rd, is the right time - PAK players don't learn much from domestics; after County, now it has to be within the national set up. There is no point picking an official 25 years old Iftekhar & believe that he'll learn from Internationals. Imran picked players at their official 18/19 years, sometimes even at 16 & few at 21, not more - couple of years with the team, some turned into world class players, rest faded away. Now what changed is that PAK picks youngster at official 28/29, instead of 18/19, when their learning curve is finished.

I explained it in another thread - take few examples from real life. Razzak was drafted at 17 (I think, 20-21) in late 1997 - in 2 years time he won MoS in WSC '99; which had at least 10-12 ATGs playing. Same can be said for Saqline, Aamir, Md. Wasim, Asif .... these players were picked at right age, when the learning curve is exponential - they indeed caught up quickly (though many of them couldn't maintain that standard for different reason). Take this PSL - players like Shinwari, Mir, Asghar, Shadab, Raees ... even Babar are improving with every game - ONLY reason is that these players at the right age; they can pick up quickly. Of course not every 18 years old kid won't turn into Wasim Akram, but Iftekhars have not even a shot at it.

Since you asked for names - I can give you some from recent past in line with PAK's team strategy & strengths. At least 3 Leg spinners were denied for 3 to 5 years, just to keep Afridi safe - I can put names - Yasir, Shahzaib, Zahid. PAK didn't gave the minimum chances to all-rounders like Hammad, Rizwan Haider, Naved Yasin .. to keep MoHa safe. Sohail Khan should have been PAK's opening bowler after August 2010 - it went to Tanvir Ahmed, Aizaz Cheema ........ In terms of batting - Haris should have been PAK's No. 4 after 31st March 2011 ..... If you pick options like Khurram Manzoor, Shaan Masood ..... your only option will remain MoHa after every few months.

Few young bowlers were picked in this PSL (actually forced to pick, otherwise no Franchise would have picked any young player), so we have seen them performing. Force every team to pick 2 U23 batsmen & make them bat in top 5 - most of them will out do MoHa, Malik, Misbah.

Talent is not an issue yet - visionary leadership is the problem. Promoting a young player needs lots of courage & big heart; because if he fails, people selecting him will face music - therefore every CS & Captain had gone to safer route; they have a tried & tested excuse if the likes of MoHa, Malik, Wahab, Gul or Ajmal fails : EXPERIENCE.
 
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What I am saying is that, situation is not that much desperate that PAK'll send identical 16 to UAE, NZ & AUS. It's not that dark that the team's average age should reach to 33, officially. It's not that MoHa is Majid Khan or YK is Javed or Wahab is Wasim or Misbah is Imran .... that, these expired cricketers will be carried for few years after their expiry.

Regarding talent, I actually don't even agree with the concept of talent. There are lots of skilled players (it'll be the case always if one sports is by far popular in a population 200mn), but their game is at raw level - they are good batsman or bowler, not a professional cricketer. One has to pick them at right age & give them to polish their skills - which County cricket did for PCB.

I don't agree that PAK has given enough chances to youngsters. First - right players were not picked; whatever young player was picked was done as a stop gap, often to fail so that oldy bunch can return. 2nd - they never tried to groom a back-up so that there is a hollow & few players become invincible - the idea is to prepare a similar player if MoHa or Malik or Wahab fails - one can't pick a specialist batsman as MoHa's back-up & then when he fails with bat, use his bowling as the trump card, just one example. 3rd, is the right time - PAK players don't learn much from domestics; after County, now it has to be within the national set up. There is no point picking an official 25 years old Iftekhar & believe that he'll learn from Internationals. Imran picked players at their official 18/19 years, sometimes even at 16 & few at 21, not more - couple of years with the team, some turned into world class players, rest faded away. Now what changed is that PAK picks youngster at official 28/29, instead of 18/19, when their learning curve is finished.

I explained it in another thread - take few examples from real life. Razzak was drafted at 17 (I think, 20-21) in late 1997 - in 2 years time he won MoS in WSC '99; which had at least 10-12 ATGs playing. Same can be said for Saqline, Aamir, Md. Wasim, Asif .... these players were picked at right age, when the learning curve is exponential - they indeed caught up quickly (though many of them couldn't maintain that standard for different reason). Take this PSL - players like Shinwari, Mir, Asghar, Shadab, Raees ... even Babar are improving with every game - ONLY reason is that these players at the right age; they can pick up quickly. Of course not every 18 years old kid won't turn into Wasim Akram, but Iftekhars have not even a shot at it.

Since you asked for names - I can give you some from recent past in line with PAK's team strategy & strengths. At least 3 Leg spinners were denied for 3 to 5 years, just to keep Afridi safe - I can put names - Yasir, Shahzaib, Zahid. PAK didn't gave the minimum chances to all-rounders like Hammad, Rizwan Haider, Naved Yasin .. to keep MoHa safe. Sohail Khan should have been PAK's opening bowler after August 2010 - it went to Tanvir Ahmed, Aizaz Cheema ........ In terms of batting - Haris should have been PAK's No. 4 after 31st March 2011 ..... If you pick options like Khurram Manzoor, Shaan Masood ..... your only option will remain MoHa after every few months.

Few young bowlers were picked in this PSL (actually forced to pick, otherwise no Franchise would have picked any young player), so we have seen them performing. Force every team to pick 2 U23 batsmen & make them bat in top 5 - most of them will out do MoHa, Malik, Misbah.

Talent is not an issue yet - visionary leadership is the problem. Promoting a young player needs lots of courage & big heart; because if he fails, people selecting him will face music - therefore every CS & Captain had gone to safer route; they have a tried & tested excuse if the likes of MoHa, Malik, Wahab, Gul or Ajmal fails : EXPERIENCE.

good write up
I expect things to change under Sarfraz's captaincy
 
What I am saying is that, situation is not that much desperate that PAK'll send identical 16 to UAE, NZ & AUS. It's not that dark that the team's average age should reach to 33, officially. It's not that MoHa is Majid Khan or YK is Javed or Wahab is Wasim or Misbah is Imran .... that, these expired cricketers will be carried for few years after their expiry.

Regarding talent, I actually don't even agree with the concept of talent. There are lots of skilled players (it'll be the case always if one sports is by far popular in a population 200mn), but their game is at raw level - they are good batsman or bowler, not a professional cricketer. One has to pick them at right age & give them to polish their skills - which County cricket did for PCB.

I don't agree that PAK has given enough chances to youngsters. First - right players were not picked; whatever young player was picked was done as a stop gap, often to fail so that oldy bunch can return. 2nd - they never tried to groom a back-up so that there is a hollow & few players become invincible - the idea is to prepare a similar player if MoHa or Malik or Wahab fails - one can't pick a specialist batsman as MoHa's back-up & then when he fails with bat, use his bowling as the trump card, just one example. 3rd, is the right time - PAK players don't learn much from domestics; after County, now it has to be within the national set up. There is no point picking an official 25 years old Iftekhar & believe that he'll learn from Internationals. Imran picked players at their official 18/19 years, sometimes even at 16 & few at 21, not more - couple of years with the team, some turned into world class players, rest faded away. Now what changed is that PAK picks youngster at official 28/29, instead of 18/19, when their learning curve is finished.

I explained it in another thread - take few examples from real life. Razzak was drafted at 17 (I think, 20-21) in late 1997 - in 2 years time he won MoS in WSC '99; which had at least 10-12 ATGs playing. Same can be said for Saqline, Aamir, Md. Wasim, Asif .... these players were picked at right age, when the learning curve is exponential - they indeed caught up quickly (though many of them couldn't maintain that standard for different reason). Take this PSL - players like Shinwari, Mir, Asghar, Shadab, Raees ... even Babar are improving with every game - ONLY reason is that these players at the right age; they can pick up quickly. Of course not every 18 years old kid won't turn into Wasim Akram, but Iftekhars have not even a shot at it.

Since you asked for names - I can give you some from recent past in line with PAK's team strategy & strengths. At least 3 Leg spinners were denied for 3 to 5 years, just to keep Afridi safe - I can put names - Yasir, Shahzaib, Zahid. PAK didn't gave the minimum chances to all-rounders like Hammad, Rizwan Haider, Naved Yasin .. to keep MoHa safe. Sohail Khan should have been PAK's opening bowler after August 2010 - it went to Tanvir Ahmed, Aizaz Cheema ........ In terms of batting - Haris should have been PAK's No. 4 after 31st March 2011 ..... If you pick options like Khurram Manzoor, Shaan Masood ..... your only option will remain MoHa after every few months.

Few young bowlers were picked in this PSL (actually forced to pick, otherwise no Franchise would have picked any young player), so we have seen them performing. Force every team to pick 2 U23 batsmen & make them bat in top 5 - most of them will out do MoHa, Malik, Misbah.

Talent is not an issue yet - visionary leadership is the problem. Promoting a young player needs lots of courage & big heart; because if he fails, people selecting him will face music - therefore every CS & Captain had gone to safer route; they have a tried & tested excuse if the likes of MoHa, Malik, Wahab, Gul or Ajmal fails : EXPERIENCE.

I can't be bothered answering every point you have made but know that we have given chances to many newcomers like Umar Amin who never perform. All these incredibly talented players I keep hearing about can't perform at international level. T20 hit and run Cricket is very different to playing in Australia and New Zealand, we know what happens to Pak there.

Our players are not capable of performing outside their comfort zone as we have repeatedly seen. You can go and on about how much talent there is in Pak but the proof is always in the pudding. Problem is Pak's domestic structure and nepotism where players simply can't perform under pressure. Even our so called better batsman are nowhere in international Cricket. A leader is only as good as his team, when you have nothing to play with then the results will be equally abysmal.
 
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