Should Pakistan follow Bangladesh in opening ties with Israel?

[Couch Cricketer]

My reason for not accepting Israel is simply because of Kashmir not Religion I am atheist so religion does not come into it. Pakistan can not and should not accept Israel as that would also legitimize Indian occupation of Kashmir. Few years ago I was of the opinion that India and Pakistan should just take LOC as the official border or both should leave Kashmir and let the Kashmiris decide what they want to do. But now after after this RSS and BJP government I don't think that is a realistic option.

 

[MenInG]

There are reports that Bangladesh have removed restriction on their nationals visiting Israel.

Should Pakistan look to do the same?

 

[Shah]

Yes, of course.
If Pakistan can have diplomatic relations with India, Pakistan's sworn enemy, then why not Israel, a country which wants to be friendly to Pakistan and has never said anything negative about Pakistan or done any harm to Pakistan unlike India.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

There are reports that Bangladesh have removed restriction on their nationals visiting Israel.

Should Pakistan look to do the same?

To what end?, Travel should be fine but does Pakistan want Israelis having free reign to enter the country?.

 

[Zaz]

Not till the palestinians dont get their rights No

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Yes, of course.
If Pakistan can have diplomatic relations with India, Pakistan's sworn enemy, then why not Israel, a country which wants to be friendly to Pakistan and has never said anything negative about Pakistan or done any harm to Pakistan unlike India.

Because the Pakistani population does not like Israel. Israel is the country that the Pakistani people dislike more than any other in the world. So you are asking Pakistani politicians to make a extremely unpopular move which will give no benefit to Pakistan.

With India their has always been a love hate relationship. With the exception of hardliner Hindutva supporters, people in Pakistan dont really have any problem with Hindus, or India, with the exception of Kashmir dispute.

 

[PakLFC]

We need to weigh up the pro's and con's here. There are benefits to form diplomatic relations with Israel for sure. What is the problem if we were to recognise Israel if other Muslim countries can then why not Pak? Most Pakistanis who are illiterate do not even know why they despise Israel.

 

[Varun]

Bangladesh Lifts Ban On Travel To Israel, drops 'except Israel' from passports

Dhaka/Jerusalem: Bangladesh has announced to lift a decades-long travel ban to Israel, a move welcomed by the Jewish state which called upon Dhaka to establish diplomatic ties with Tel Aviv for the benefit of the people of the two countries.
Bangladeshi passports earlier had a clause written on them that said "This Passport is valid for all countries of the world except Israel", but the government on Saturday decided to remove "except Israel" from the document making it valid for the entire world.

Israel has welcomed Bangladesh's decision to remove the travel ban.

"Great news! #Bangladesh has removed the travel ban to Israel. This is a welcome step & I call on the Bangladeshi government to move forward and establish diplomatic ties with #Israel so both our peoples could benefit & prosper," Deputy Director General at Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs Gilad Cohen tweeted.

Bangladesh Home Minister Asaduzzaman Khan Kamal says they are bringing the changes to ensure that the passports meet the "international standards".

In the Israel-Palestine conflict of eight decades, Bangladesh has all along stridently supported the Palestinians'' cause. It has never recognised the existence of Israel, and so the two countries do not have diplomatic relations.

Mr Kamal said that the move "does not mean that there has been a change in Bangladesh's position" regarding Israel.

Israel has normalised its ties with the Muslim-majority UAE, Bahrain, Morocco and Sudan between September and December of 2020.

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/bangladesh-lifts-ban-on-travel-to-israel-2447905

Just check out the timing of this.

 

[RexRex]

Good news.

Many muslim countries have started acknowledging Israel in some manner. Pakistan should start diplomatic relations with Israel too. I thought maybe Imran Khan was the right leader to achieve this but boy was I wrong.

 

[LongHorn]

What will Pakistan get from relations? A few dollars?

Countries like Sudan and Morocco and Bahrain formalized relations because they got paid by UAE for it.
Not because they are ok with Israel

As for Bangladesh, if Saudia accepts Israel, Bangladesh will follow

 

[guna]

Pakistan will show Bangladesh how to be the best Muslim nation by not having relations with Israel

 

[Civil]

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/sto...hange-in-policy-travel-ban-1806078-2021-05-24

Here they are saying no change in stance and that it was for administrative changes. Weird timing indeed.

 

[Zaz]

Bangladesh have confirmed theres no change in their stance towards israel

 

[Varun]

What will Pakistan get from relations? A few dollars?

Pakistan will have one less enemy in the world, assuming Israel also accepts the diplomatic gesture.

If Saudi Arabia is what's stopping Pakistan from making the move, it's just a matter of time before those two formalize relations anyway. After that, Pakistan can follow.

 

[Zaz]

Pakistan will have one less enemy in the world, assuming Israel also accepts the diplomatic gesture.

If Saudi Arabia is what's stopping Pakistan from making the move, it's just a matter of time before those two formalize relations anyway. After that, Pakistan can follow.

I wouldnt worry about pakistans stance

Thats not gonna change until the palestinians dont get justice

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

I wouldnt worry about pakistans stance

Thats not gonna change until the palestinians dont get justice

And how is Palestinian gonna get justice? By giving it to terrorists of Hamas? Be realistic. Pakistan will have to recognize Israel in nearby future

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

And how is Palestinian gonna get justice? By giving it to terrorists of Hamas? Be realistic. Pakistan will have to recognize Israel in nearby future

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Anyone is better than terrorists of Irgun aka Israeli 'Defense' Force.

Pakistan will never recognize Israel.

On October 12, 1945 Jinnah said

"Every man and woman of the Muslim world will die before Jewry seizes Jerusalem. I hope the Jews will not succeed in their nefarious designs and I wish Britain and America should keep their hand off and then I will see how the Jews conquer Jerusalem. The Jews, over half a million, have already been accommodated in Jerusalem against the wishes of the people. May I know which other country has accommodated them? If domination and exploitation are carried now, there will be no peace and end of wars”

— Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Zionists can keep on daydreaming.

 

[LongHorn]

And how is Palestinian gonna get justice? By giving it to terrorists of Hamas? Be realistic. Pakistan will have to recognize Israel in nearby future

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Why are Hamas Terrorists yet the Israeli government s not?

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Speaking to Anadolu Agency, Bangladesh Foreign Minister AK Abdul Momen said that the words “except Israel” have been withdrawn from the passports for “administrative convenience.”

“This has nothing to do with the foreign policy of Bangladesh”, Momen said, adding that the decision was taken six months ago.

“This move will not affect our position ... We are strong supporters of Palestine,” he added.

Meanwhile, a statement issued by the Bangladeshi Foreign Ministry on Sunday evening also urged people not to get confused over a tweet by an Israeli Foreign Ministry official.

Source: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacif...rops-except-israel-from-new-passports/2252088

What a pathetic and shameless maneuver by Zionist entity's minions.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Anyone is better than terrorists of Irgun aka Israeli 'Defense' Force.

Pakistan will never recognize Israel.



Zionists can keep on daydreaming.

Quaid said a lot of things such as military and politics should stay separate but that did not happen so whatever he said in 1940s is pretty much irrelevant. As for Pakistan recognizing Israel, I think government would do whatever is the best for the image of Pakistan and after muck up by SMQ in US media, I think the best thing for Pakistan is to backtrack from its official statement and recognize Israel.

 

[hitthestump]

Pakistan should never recognise Israel. History will remember.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Why are Hamas Terrorists yet the Israeli government s not?

Because Hamas kills innocent civilians. They attack civilian areas rather than military bases in Israel. They hate Jews whereas Israel does not have a problem against Muslims but Palestinians which is wrong too but at least they allow them to move out of Palestine and move to the West which is why there are so many Palestinians in the United States and Canada.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

Pakistan should never recognise Israel. History will remember.

History will remember what? That when Pakistanis were dying Bc of terrorism, poverty, hunger etc Pakistan were more interested in making Palestinians happy?

 

[Varun]

History will remember what? That when Pakistanis were dying Bc of terrorism, poverty, hunger etc Pakistan were more interested in making Palestinians happy?

And it's not like they helped the Palestinians either.

PS: Classy thread title change.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Quaid said a lot of things such as military and politics should stay separate but that did not happen so whatever he said in 1940s is pretty much irrelevant. As for Pakistan recognizing Israel, I think government would do whatever is the best for the image of Pakistan and after muck up by SMQ in US media, I think the best thing for Pakistan is to backtrack from its official statement and recognize Israel.

Dropping bombs on hospitals, schools and peoples' homes was evil back in 40s, still is and shall remain until the day of judgment.

 

[Ashmal]

Because Hamas kills innocent civilians. They attack civilian areas rather than military bases in Israel. They hate Jews whereas Israel does not have a problem against Muslims but Palestinians which is wrong too but at least they allow them to move out of Palestine and move to the West which is why there are so many Palestinians in the United States and Canada.

What nonsensical...

So Israelis are 'great' because they allow some Palestinians to leave after capturing their land and property and killing their innocent children and family members.

These pathetic Zionist-sympathisers have no shame.

I wonder if someone comes and throws you out of your home, captures your land and kills your people....will you be singing the same tune

 

[hitthestump]

History will remember what? That when Pakistanis were dying Bc of terrorism, poverty, hunger etc Pakistan were more interested in making Palestinians happy?

This might be the worst post i read all week. This has got nothing to do with appeasing Palestinians and everything to do with refusing to acknowledge an occupation.

I know Indians are squealing into their hands at the thought of a ethnostate, hence why you struggle to understand the humanitarian aspect of what Israel stands for and what you want India to stand for.

 

[Varun]

This might be the worst post i read all week. This has got nothing to do with appeasing Palestinians and everything to do with refusing to acknowledge an occupation.

I know Indians are squealing into their hands at the thought of a ethnostate, hence why you struggle to understand the humanitarian aspect of what Israel stands for and what you want India to stand for.

Palestinians are to us what the Uyghurs are to you. China is to us what Israel is to you.

 

[Zaz]

And how is Palestinian gonna get justice? By giving it to terrorists of Hamas? Be realistic. Pakistan will have to recognize Israel in nearby future

Pakistan has a straightforward policy

It doesnt recognise terrorist states like Israel

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I wasn't even aware that Bangladesh had recognised Israel. Did they get any benefit from it yet?

 

[Zaz]

Because Israel kills innocent civilians. They attack civilian areas rather than military bases in palestine . They hate muslims whereas palestine does not have a problem against jews.

Fixed

 

[ParwazHaiJunoon]

Because Hamas kills innocent civilians. They attack civilian areas rather than military bases in Israel. They hate Jews whereas Israel does not have a problem against Muslims but Palestinians which is wrong too but at least they allow them to move out of Palestine and move to the West which is why there are so many Palestinians in the United States and Canada.

I have said this before & will say it now. "Israelis are not Innocent. They are colonialists. They have captured lands of Palestinian Arabs. They are oppressors. Even if some of them are not involved directly in oppression, then they are 'beneficiary of oppression'. Hence, all Israelis are TERRORISTS."

but at least they allow them to move out of Palestine

Your statement shows that you would be singing praises for someone who kills your parents, family, children, destroys your home & then throws you out of your home.

Have some shame. Stop defending Zionist Colonialists.

 

[IAJ]

Because Hamas kills innocent civilians. They attack civilian areas rather than military bases in Israel. They hate Jews whereas Israel does not have a problem against Muslims but Palestinians which is wrong too but at least they allow them to move out of Palestine and move to the West which is why there are so many Palestinians in the United States and Canada.

Just enlighten me on the following please; how many civilians have Hamas killed and how many civilians have Israel killed in May 2021?

 

[sweep_shot]

As a Bangladeshi man, I was shocked by decision taken by Bangladesh. This is shameful and I hope they will reverse it.

Pakistan shouldn't follow Bangladesh. Normalizing relation with Israel should be out of equation for all Muslim states.

 

[PakLFC]

Pak does not get anything for hating Israel. We say to Israel "we care about you" they tell us "first care about yourselves!". Even most Arab countries have no problem with Israel then why should we?" As I always say Palestine has never supported our cause on Kashmir.

 

[PakLFC]

Correcting my post 195. We say to Palestinians "we care about you" and they reply "first care about yourselves".

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan has a straightforward policy

It doesnt recognise terrorist states like Israel

Providing state protection to internationally recognized terrorist outfits and hiding Osama half a mile from a military base in Abbottabad is also part of Pakistan’s “straightforward policy”.

 

[Mamoon]

Anyone is better than terrorists of Irgun aka Israeli 'Defense' Force.

Pakistan will never recognize Israel.



Zionists can keep on daydreaming.

Trust me on this - not a single Israeli/Zionist is daydreaming about getting recognition from an irrelevant country that is struggling to climb out of the FATF grey list and whose economy is surviving on loans and handouts.

Israel has the support and the backing of the rich and powerful states.

 

[Mamoon]

I wasn't even aware that Bangladesh had recognised Israel. Did they get any benefit from it yet?

Considering that Bangladesh has left Pakistan in its dust on almost every metric, it would be prudent to assume that they have taken the right decisions with respect to their domestic and foreign policy.

Developing ties with the most brilliant nation on earth, the hub of science, technology, inventions and discoveries, should benefit them in the long-term.

There is a lot of technological transfer that could be achieved by Bangladesh while Pakistan would be back in the Stone Age if they ever achieve its dream of boycotting Israeli technology.

 

[Giannis]

This is such bad timing by the Bangladeshi government, most Bangladesh-Americans I know are super embarrassed by this move.

 

[Mamoon]

This is such bad timing by the Bangladeshi government, most Bangladesh-Americans I know are super embarrassed by this move.

I would say it is great timing. It makes their intentions and priorities clear and leaves no room for doubt.

Bangladesh knew there would be a backlash but they deliberately chose this moment to make a statement.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

[/b]

Trust me on this - not a single Israeli/Zionist is daydreaming about getting recognition from an irrelevant country that is struggling to climb out of the FATF grey list and whose economy is surviving on loans and handouts.

Israel has the support and the backing of the rich and powerful states.

Reality is a very different thing from mental projections.

A random **** by a useless Pakistani opposition party's politician would celebrated by Zionists.

In their heart of hearts they're continuously trying to legitimize their illegality.

You are incapable of understanding it.

 

[Mamoon]

Reality is a very different thing from mental projections.

A random **** by a useless Pakistani opposition party's politician would celebrated by Zionists.

In their heart of hearts they're continuously trying to legitimize their illegality.

You are incapable of understanding it.

What you are incapable of understanding is that Israel is already legitimized because all the rich, the powerful and the influential countries have recognized Israel and developed ties.

Israel does not need Pakistan when it has the support of the West, China, KSA, UAE, India etc.

Keep overestimating Pakistan’s importance and value. I am sure it makes you feel better.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

What you are incapable of understanding is that Israel is already legitimized because all the rich, the powerful and the influential countries have recognized Israel and developed ties.

Israel does not need Pakistan when it has the support of the West, China, KSA, UAE, India etc.

Keep overestimating Pakistan’s importance and value. I am sure it makes you feel better.

Israel depends on foreign aid. A week's delay in ammo and Hamas would wipe the floor with them. Let's not even talk about Hezbollah and Iran.

Their legitimacy only depends on USA's Zionist lobby.

Rest of the Western people don't like them, they never did and will never do. Fascism stopped thriving in the EU after WWII. People do not like Zionist supermacist mentality here.

Western Government's policies will change over time once USA demises.

India supports Palestine. China doesn't care and only a fool with count on Saudis' support.

It doesn't matter whether I overestimate or underestimate Pakistan, reality is Zionist lobby's biggest objective is to be recognized by the rest of the world. Expect a celebration if Pakistan ever hints in favor of accepting Israel. But that day will never come, ergo, Zionists can keep on dreaming.

 

[Mamoon]

Israel depends on foreign aid. A week's delay in ammo and Hamas would wipe the floor with them. Let's not even talk about Hezbollah and Iran.

Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the world. The technological transfer and the US military aid has made sure of that.

No Muslim state has comparable technology, let alone a terrorist group like Hamas that is hiding among Palestinian civilians and using them as shields.

As far as Israeli’s dependency on foreign aid is concerned, you are confusing Israel with Pakistan.

Israel was established and made to stand on its two feet due to aid, but over time, they established themselves as the hub of technological development, innovations and inventions.

Without Israeli tech and research, you wouldn’t even be able to use your smartphones and computers that you are currently using to criticize them. It appears that the irony is lost on you, but you are not the only one.

Israel ranks very high on the Human Development Index and spends a bigger percentage of its wealth on research & development than any country in the world.

The wet dream that Israel will collapse without foreign assistance will remain a wet dream. It is not the 60s anymore.

Rest of the Western people don't like them, they never did and will never do. Fascism stopped thriving in the EU after WWII. People do not like Zionist supermacist mentality here.

Western Government's policies will change over time once USA demises.

USA will demise, Israel will demise, India will demise, EU will demise. The future belongs to the country that is struggling to get out of the FATF grey list and is surviving on IMF handouts.

And you are kidding yourself if you think the U.S. will ever stop supporting Israel. A strong Israel is essential to USA’s Middle East policy and its domestic technological growth and innovation.

A capitalistic country like USA will always need a high-tech country like Israel, by far the most brilliant and innovation nation on earth.

Again, there are too many dreams of Pakistanis: USA collapsing, Israel collapsing, India collapsing, EU collapsing, USA opposing Israel, Palestine winning this battle against Israel, Kashmir getting liberated from India, Pakistan emerging as an Asian Tiger.

None of these dreams will be realized.

India supports Palestine. China doesn't care and only a fool with count on Saudis' support.

China cares a lot more than you think. It is Israel second largest trading partner with deals worth billions of USD.

Israel is essential to China’s 2025 vision of evolving from low-cost manufacturing to establish itself as a technological and innovation powerhouse.

The delusions of Pakistanis don’t mean anything.

If Pakistan ever tries to do something practical about Israel other than continuing to make verbal threats, one call from Beijing to Islamabad would be enough to knock Pakistan back to its senses.

As far as KSA is concerned, only fools would downplay its significance. KSA is the most powerful player in the Middle East and influential Muslim country.

KSA is investing heavily in its tech sector as it aims to reduce its dependency on oil, and they need Israel for that, hence the cordial relationship behind closed doors.

It doesn't matter whether I overestimate or underestimate Pakistan, reality is Zionist lobby's biggest objective is to be recognized by the rest of the world. Expect a celebration if Pakistan ever hints in favor of accepting Israel. But that day will never come, ergo, Zionists can keep on dreaming.

Don’t get me wrong. Israel would prefer to have ties with Pakistan over the current situation. Developing ties with Pakistan would mean more money.

After all, an incompetent, technologically bankrupt country like Pakistan would import a lot of tech from Israel.

Nevertheless, make no mistake. Israel has done extremely well without having any relations with Pakistan. If Pakistan was of economical value and strategic importance to Israel, the impact of the non-existent relationship with Pakistan would have been visible.

So let me say it again - Pakistan refusal to acknowledge Israel is not giving Israel/Zionist lobby sleepless nights, because the countries that matter are on Israel’s side.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Israel has one of the most advanced militaries in the world. The technological transfer and the US military aid has made sure of that.

No Muslim state has comparable technology, let alone a terrorist group like Hamas that is hiding among Palestinian civilians and using them as shields.

As far as Israeli’s dependency on foreign aid is concerned, you are confusing Israel with Pakistan.

Israel was established and made to stand on its two feet due to aid, but over time, they established themselves as the hub of technological development, innovations and inventions.

Without Israeli tech and research, you wouldn’t even be able to use your smartphones and computers that you are currently using to criticize them. It appears that the irony is lost on you, but you are not the only one.

Israel ranks very high on the Human Development Index and spends a bigger percentage of its wealth on research & development than any country in the world.

The wet dream that Israel will collapse without foreign assistance will remain a wet dream. It is not the 60s anymore.



USA will demise, Israel will demise, India will demise, EU will demise. The future belongs to the country that is struggling to get out of the FATF grey list and is surviving on IMF handouts.

And you are kidding yourself if you think the U.S. will ever stop supporting Israel. A strong Israel is essential to USA’s Middle East policy and its domestic technological growth and innovation.

A capitalistic country like USA will always need a high-tech country like Israel, by far the most brilliant and innovation nation on earth.

Again, there are too many dreams of Pakistanis: USA collapsing, Israel collapsing, India collapsing, EU collapsing, USA opposing Israel, Palestine winning this battle against Israel, Kashmir getting liberated from India, Pakistan emerging as an Asian Tiger.

None of these dreams will be realized.



China cares a lot more than you think. It is Israel second largest trading partner with deals worth billions of USD.

Israel is essential to China’s 2025 vision of evolving from low-cost manufacturing to establish itself as a technological and innovation powerhouse.

The delusions of Pakistanis don’t mean anything.

If Pakistan ever tries to do something practical about Israel other than continuing to make verbal threats, one call from Beijing to Islamabad would be enough to knock Pakistan back to its senses.

As far as KSA is concerned, only fools would downplay its significance. KSA is the most powerful player in the Middle East and influential Muslim country.

KSA is investing heavily in its tech sector as it aims to reduce its dependency on oil, and they need Israel for that, hence the cordial relationship behind closed doors.



Don’t get me wrong. Israel would prefer to have ties with Pakistan over the current situation. Developing ties with Pakistan would mean more money.

After all, an incompetent, technologically bankrupt country like Pakistan would import a lot of tech from Israel.

Nevertheless, make no mistake. Israel has done extremely well without having any relations with Pakistan. If Pakistan was of economical value and strategic importance to Israel, the impact of the non-existent relationship with Pakistan would have been visible.

So let me say it again - Pakistan refusal to acknowledge Israel is not giving Israel/Zionist lobby sleepless nights, because the countries that matter are on Israel’s side.

Lols.

So why did Israel stop the war against "terrorists"?

As I wrote earlier, reality is very different from mental delusions.

Why couldn't India isolate Pakistan if we live on loans?

If it were up to Hondutvas and Zionists, we would suffer for a drop of water.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Considering that Bangladesh has left Pakistan in its dust on almost every metric, it would be prudent to assume that they have taken the right decisions with respect to their domestic and foreign policy.

Developing ties with the most brilliant nation on earth, the hub of science, technology, inventions and discoveries, should benefit them in the long-term.

There is a lot of technological transfer that could be achieved by Bangladesh while Pakistan would be back in the Stone Age if they ever achieve its dream of boycotting Israeli technology.

I don't really care about metrics on paper, reality is Bangladesh is still pretty much the same as Pakistan to look at, mostly poor and no real discernable difference in standard of living. Ask your friends from across the border who have to build fences to keep Bangladeshis out.

Israel can keep it's science, it's not the only nation which develops along those lines.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What Pakistan or Bangladesh decide is none of my business, but the creation of Israel was a huge injustice. The country should revert to it's original form of Palestine, and the jews should share the territory with the original inhabitants equitably. All settlements should be dismantled and reparations should be made to those who lost their homes to make way for the invasion of settlers from Europe and America.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

As a Bangladeshi man, I was shocked by decision taken by Bangladesh. This is shameful and I hope they will reverse it.

Pakistan shouldn't follow Bangladesh. Normalizing relation with Israel should be out of equation for all Muslim states.

Better to realize the ground realities and move on. Non-recognition of Israel by muslims world hasn't yielded any benefits for either Palestinians or the other muslim countries. Palestinians should also realize the scenario and make a move for a permanent two state solution.

P.S. you're very eager in having a close tie with Pakistan despite them committing genocide in 71 & tell everyone to move on. So If we can have close ties with Pakistan(committed genocide in 71), India(killed people in kashmir) and China(killed & killing people in Uighur), why cant we have a normal diplomatic relation with Israel?

 

[Mamoon]

I don't really care about metrics on paper, reality is Bangladesh is still pretty much the same as Pakistan to look at, mostly poor and no real discernable difference in standard of living. Ask your friends from across the border who have to build fences to keep Bangladeshis out.

Israel can keep it's science, it's not the only nation which develops along those lines.

You may not care but the world does. Getting rid of the baggage of Pakistan is the best thing that could have happened to Bangladesh.

 

[Mamoon]

Lols.

Yes, a reality-check can be funny at times.

So why did Israel stop the war against "terrorists"?

If Hamas doesn’t bomb Israel, Israel won’t attack. What do you expect Israel to do?

As I wrote earlier, reality is very different from mental delusions.

The “reality” is what I wrote in my previous post.

Why couldn't India isolate Pakistan if we live on loans?

Do we not live on loans? Why did Imran go to IMF and begs every state whenever he visits if we are not living on loans?

Why did he go to IMF after previously claiming that he would rather commit suicide than go to IMF. Why is he still alive?

If it were up to Hondutvas and Zionists, we would suffer for a drop of water.

This is the type of propaganda that has deluded the nation for 70+ years. Let me break it to you - countries that are far superior than Pakistan in almost every metric have bigger ambitions and bigger things to worry about than to see an irrelevant basket case of a country destroyed.

We are not that important. Consider our weak economy and technological bankruptcy, we have no global footing and no international credibility.

 

[Markhor]

It's very easy to suggest these things when you don't have to answer to the voters. No Pakistani PM would agree to recognise Israel due to the domestic backlash they'd receive.

Bangladesh has virtually become an autocratic state so Hasina doesn't have to worry about public opinion.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Yes, a reality-check can be funny at times.



If Hamas doesn’t bomb Israel, Israel won’t attack. What do you expect Israel to do?



The “reality” is what I wrote in my previous post.



Do we not live on loans? Why did Imran go to IMF and begs every state whenever he visits if we are not living on loans?

Why did he go to IMF after previously claiming that he would rather commit suicide than go to IMF. Why is he still alive?



This is the type of propaganda that has deluded the nation for 70+ years. Let me break it to you - countries that are far superior than Pakistan in almost every metric have bigger ambitions and bigger things to worry about than to see an irrelevant basket case of a country destroyed.

We are not that important. Consider our weak economy and technological bankruptcy, we have no global footing and no international credibility.

Propaganda ramblings straight out of the official Zionist brochure.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You may not care but the world does. Getting rid of the baggage of Pakistan is the best thing that could have happened to Bangladesh.

That's fine for Bangladesh, but the question of OP was what should Pakistan do re Israel. I still haven't seen what any of your metrics of BD advancement during the last few decades has got to do with their recognition of Israel.

Many of BD's policies are dictated from abroad as their unelected PM is taking direction from across the border, so we don't even know what are the real motives for many decisions.

 

[El Generico]

What will Pakistan get from relations? A few dollars?

Countries like Sudan and Morocco and Bahrain formalized relations because they got paid by UAE for it.
Not because they are ok with Israel

As for Bangladesh, if Saudia accepts Israel, Bangladesh will follow

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Israeli Channel 13: "Saudi Arabia closes their airspace to Israeli airplanes." <a href="https://t.co/KkdoSEalpi">https://t.co/KkdoSEalpi</a></p>— Abier Khatib (@abierkhatib) <a href="https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1397159768855257091?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 25, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If these reports are true then Saudi accepting Israel is not happening anytime soon. Anyway no matter what Saudi does or what Pakistan is offered, Pakistan will likely not normalize relations with Israel because of the countrywide protests/backlash that will follow.

 

[Imran Hasan]

I am no expert or don't know the internal news or politics but dropping of "except Israel" thing actually happened just recently. I got my E Passport couple of months ago and the restrictions were there. But very recently people who had applied for E passport got the new passport with no restrictions of going any country in the world. But this attention came into light only during the Israeli bombardment of Gaza. But again there could be some internal calculation like I heard some of our conglomerates wanted to do business with Israel. Maybe Gov bogged down by their pressure but the timing was bad hence they retreats now!

My heart always bleeds for Palestinian people. This is not about religion! It's about oppression. Jews always have the sympathy in western world for the massacre and atrocities they endured in Nazi times. But once the oppressed became the oppressor now.

Though we don't have any ties with Israel but there are some trade relations that is happening via third party.Without harming Palestinian cause I think we should also look into economical gains and if it means to lift the ban on going in Israel then probably it will happen sooner or later.

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has not been approached by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates to recognise Israel, clarified Pakistan Ulema Council Chairman and Special Aide to Prime Minister on Religious Harmony and the Middle East Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi.

“Neither United Arab Emirates nor Saudi Arabia has asked Pakistan to recognize Israel,” he said while talking to newsmen here on Thursday, according to a The News report.

He said anti-Pakistan forces are worried following the improvement of Pakistan's relations with the Arab Islamic countries.

Pakistan's relations with Arab Islamic countries including Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Egypt, Bahrain, Amman and Iraq are improving with practical cooperation in different areas, he said adding contacts are underway with Saudi officials on the issue of repatriation of Pakistanis.

GEO

 

[MenInG]

A US-led maritime exercise including 60 nations and organisations has kicked off in and around Gulf waters with Israel joining for the first time alongside nations that do not recognise it.

The US navy said on Tuesday that the 18-day biennial International Maritime Exercise (IMX) since Monday includes 50 vessels and 9,000 personnel from more than 60 entities.

With more than 80 drones, it is also the world's largest unmanned drill, it added from Bahrain, where the 5th Fleet is headquartered.

The exercise comes at a time of regional tensions over Iran's nuclear programme and Yemeni rebels' recent targeting of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates with missiles and drones.

It includes a number of countries -- among them Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Oman and Yemen -- that do not have formal diplomatic relations with Israel.

However, Saudi Arabia and Israel share the same desire to contain their common foe Iran.
Israeli army spokesman Avichay Adraee tweeted Monday that Israel would "for the first time take part" in the IMX drill.

In November, the UAE and Bahrain launched joint naval exercises with Israel for the first time.
Yemen's Iran-backed Huthi rebels targeted the UAE three times in January with drones and missiles, killing three foreign workers in the first attack on January 17.

Earlier in the month, the rebels seized a UAE-flagged ship in the Red Sea, saying it was carrying weapons -- a claim denied by the Emirates.

The US navy said in January it had stopped a ship carrying 40 tons of a fertiliser that can be used to make explosives as it travelled from Iran along a route previously used to smuggle weapons to the Huthis.

In December, it had seized 1,400 AK-47 rifles and ammunition from a fishing boat it claimed was smuggling weapons from Iran to Yemen.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2341496/israel-joins-pakistan-other-nations-in-maritime-drill-1

 

[daytrader]

Pak delegates visit Israel?

The Pakistani Americans delegation included Ahmed Quraishi who happens to be an employee of the state TV


By Rafiq MawngatMay 16, 2022
Pak delegates visit Israel?
ISLAMABAD: A Pakistani Americans delegation visited Israel last week apparently to promote Israeli-Pakistani relations, according to foreign media reports.

The visit was sponsored by a pro-Israel civil group Sharaka (“Partnership” in Arabic) established in 2020 after the signing of The Abraham Accords and recognition of Israel by the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.

The group works for connecting Israel with Gulf countries. Presently it has three operational divisions located in Israel, Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates.

Sharaka, in a tweet, said it was “honored to bring a delegation of Muslims and Sikhs from southeast Asia including the first Pakistani Jew allowed to travel to Israel to visit Israeli President Issac Herzog. The delegates spoke to the President about their efforts to develop relationships with Israel. ”

The Pakistani delegation was headed by a Pakistani-American lobbyist in the US, Aneela Ali. The delegation comprised Pakistanis as well as Muslims from other countries. A foreign media outlet said “the delegation met top Israeli leadership including Israeli President. Some 'famous' faces from Pakistani media fraternity are also part of the delegation. Some even work for state media.”

The Pakistani Americans delegation included Ahmed Quraishi who happens to be employee of the state TV.

The former Minister of Human Rights, Dr. Shireen Mazari, criticized Ahmed Quraishi in a tweet. Responding to the criticism, Ahmed Quraishi tweeted: “Dr. Shireen Mazari, today's self-appointed top PTI anti-Israel crusader, was DG ISSI (Institute of Stategic Studies Islamabad) in 2005 when her boss, then FM Kasuri, held first official Pakistan-Israel meeting in Turkey, after which Israel waived import license requirement for for Israeli businessmen trading with Pakistan, saved her job by not objecting … to her boss … and continued in her position until 2008.”

Quraishi also tweeted Kasuri’s pictures with his Israeli counterpart.

In June 2021, reports surfaced about Imran government’s advisers’ visit of Israel. PPP Chairman Bilawal Bhutto had stated then that there is something fishy about Pakistani officials’ visit of Israel. After a few days, the advisers denied the visit.

An Israeli newspaper, Israel Hayom, had reported the visit citing its sources in Islamabad. The then advisers, Moeed Yusuf and Zulfi Bukhari, had denied the report. Those days, social media was also rife with reports that since Imran Khan’s former spouse belongs to a Jewish family, attempts are being made to establish relations with Israel. These attempts went to the backburner due to country’s fragile economy and political crisis. Isreal has established diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt, Jordan and Bahrain.
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/958195-pak-delegates-visit-israel

 

[Varun]

Pak delegates visit Israel?

ISLAMABAD: A Pakistani Americans delegation visited Israel last week apparently to promote Israeli-Pakistani relations, according to foreign media reports.

The visit was sponsored by a pro-Israel civil group Sharaka (“Partnership” in Arabic) established in 2020 after the signing of The Abraham Accords and recognition of Israel by the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.

The group works for connecting Israel with Gulf countries. Presently it has three operational divisions located in Israel, Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates.

Sharaka, in a tweet, said it was “honored to bring a delegation of Muslims and Sikhs from southeast Asia including the first Pakistani Jew allowed to travel to Israel to visit Israeli President Issac Herzog. The delegates spoke to the President about their efforts to develop relationships with Israel. ”

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sharaka was honored to bring a delegation of Muslims and Sikhs from southeast Asia including the first Pakistani Jew allowed to travel to Israel to visit Israeli President Issac Herzog. The delegates spoke to the President about their efforts to develop relationships with Israel <a href="https://t.co/mMkBxQS4fT">pic.twitter.com/mMkBxQS4fT</a></p>— Sharaka - شراكة (@sharakango) <a href="https://twitter.com/sharakango/status/1524122955390885890?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The Pakistani delegation was headed by a Pakistani-American lobbyist in the US, Aneela Ali. The delegation comprised Pakistanis as well as Muslims from other countries. A foreign media outlet said “the delegation met top Israeli leadership including Israeli President. Some 'famous' faces from Pakistani media fraternity are also part of the delegation. Some even work for state media.”

The Pakistani Americans delegation included Ahmed Quraishi who happens to be employee of the state TV.

The former Minister of Human Rights, Dr. Shireen Mazari, criticized Ahmed Quraishi in a tweet. Responding to the criticism, Ahmed Quraishi tweeted: “Dr. Shireen Mazari, today's self-appointed top PTI anti-Israel crusader, was DG ISSI (Institute of Stategic Studies Islamabad) in 2005 when her boss, then FM Kasuri, held first official Pakistan-Israel meeting in Turkey, after which Israel waived import license requirement for for Israeli businessmen trading with Pakistan, saved her job by not objecting … to her boss … and continued in her position until 2008.”


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dr. Shireen Mazari, today's self-appointed top <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PTI?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PTI</a> anti-<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Israel?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Israel</a> crusader, was DG ISSI in 2005 when her boss, then FM Kasuri, held first official <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pakistan?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pakistan</a>-<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Israel?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Israel</a> meeting in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Turkey?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Turkey</a>, after which Israel waived import license requirement for ; saved her job by not objecting. /1 <a href="https://t.co/7CwScv60l7">https://t.co/7CwScv60l7</a> <a href="https://t.co/5yKUgaeHwZ">pic.twitter.com/5yKUgaeHwZ</a></p>— Ahmed Quraishi (@_AhmedQuraishi) <a href="https://twitter.com/_AhmedQuraishi/status/1525727062274736129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 15, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Quraishi also tweeted Kasuri’s pictures with his Israeli counterpart.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/ShireenMazari1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ShireenMazari1</a> stayed silent as DG ISSI when her boss FM Kasuri met <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Israel?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Israel</a> FM in landmark first official meeting between in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Turkey?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Turkey</a> in 2005. After the meeting, Israel waived import license requirements for Israeli businessmen trading w/ Pakistan. /3<a href="https://t.co/Fp6sDhmL0y">https://t.co/Fp6sDhmL0y</a></p>— Ahmed Quraishi (@_AhmedQuraishi) <a href="https://twitter.com/_AhmedQuraishi/status/1525727069547679745?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 15, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

In June 2021, reports surfaced about Imran government’s advisers’ visit of Israel. PPP Chairman Bilawal Bhutto had stated then that there is something fishy about Pakistani officials’ visit of Israel. After a few days, the advisers denied the visit.

An Israeli newspaper, Israel Hayom, had reported the visit citing its sources in Islamabad. The then advisers, Moeed Yusuf and Zulfi Bukhari, had denied the report. Those days, social media was also rife with reports that since Imran Khan’s former spouse belongs to a Jewish family, attempts are being made to establish relations with Israel. These attempts went to the backburner due to country’s fragile economy and political crisis. Isreal has established diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt, Jordan and Bahrain.

Source: https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/958195-pak-delegates-visit-israel

 

[wasim-fan]

There is only so much idealism when there is no money bank account. But it’s totally understandable and acceptable. In coming days, there will be series of changes.

 

[MenInG]

Israel President Isaac Herzog has said that he recently received a delegation of Pakistani-Americans, calling it an "amazing experience" and referring to it as an exmaple that showed him "great change" vis-a-vis Israel's ties with the Muslim world.

Herzog delivered these remarks during a special address at the annual World Economic Forum (WEF) meet on May 26 in Davos, Switzerland, while talking about the Abraham Accords — a deal brokered by the United States in 2020 which saw normalisation of relations between Israel, the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Bahrain.

"The Abraham Accords are giving a lot of yield. How would you see this for enlarging the scope of cooperation?" asked WEF President Børge Brende.

"I'll tell you, you know, we are seeing it in all levels of life. Not speaking about just mere visits. We are seeing interest on all economic, scientific, innovation levels but I will tell you more about the personal feelings," the president replied.

Herzog said that he had received two delegations last week which showed "the great change".

"One was a delegation of young opinion-makers from Morocco who have aligned on Facebook with an Israeli [group]. They both came and sat with us for an hour and it was just amazing to listen to the experience of breaking barriers and moving forward and intertwining with each other," he said.

The next day, Herzog said, he received a delegation of Pakistani expats who lived in the US "together with other members of other countries in their region".

"And I must say this was an amazing experience. We haven't had a group of Pakistani leaders in Israel in such scope. And that all stems from the Abraham Accords, meaning Jews and Muslims can dwell together in the region [...]."

Although Herzog did not mention details about the Pakistanis he met, Sharaka — an Israeli non-government organisation (NGO) — had organised a visit of a Pakistan-American delegation to "promote peace in the Middle East".

Dawn.com has reached out to the Foreign Office and the government spokesperson for a comment on the development.

Pakistan does not recognise Israel and, therefore, doesn’t have diplomatic relations with it. Pakistan has been a staunch supporter of demands for a Palestinian state. After the Abraham accords, Pakistan had made clear that it cannot recognise Israel until a "just settlement of the Palestinian issue" is found.

"For just and lasting peace, it is imperative to have a two-state solution in accordance with relevant United Nations and Organisation of Islamic Cooperation resolutions, with the pre-1967 borders and Al-Quds Al-Sharif as capital of a viable, independent and contiguous Palestinian State," the Foreign Office had said at the time.

However, the two countries have long maintained undeclared contacts at lower level and the only known interaction took place on Sept 1, 2005, between the then foreign minister Khurshid Kasuri and his Israeli counterpart Silvan Shalom.

Meanwhile, PTI leader Shireen Mazari construed the Israeli leader's comments as "another commitment made to US under regime change conspiracy by imported government and other co-conspirators fulfilled!"

"Shameful subservience!" she said on Twitter.

PTI's Imran Ismail, meanwhile, said that all those who had called party chairman Imran Khan a "Jewish agent" their entire lives were now proven to be "certified Jewish agents and slaves".

The pride of the nation is being auctioned off due to this shameful slavery, he said.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1692110/g...-says-received-delegation-of-pakistani-expats

 

[Extra_Cover]

Completely uncalled for and really not necessary. There is no need for a controversy. Any relationship with Israel will be suicidal for PDM.

 

[sweep_shot]

No. Pakistan shouldn't do.

I am ashamed Bangladesh did this. This move is not supported by all Bangladeshis.

 

[MenInG]

CHARSADDA: Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) Chairman Imran Khan has said that the present government led by Pakistan Muslim League Nawaz (PML-N) is going to recognise Israel following a delegation’s visit, ARY News reported on Sunday.

 

[offstump]

If I read this correctly, these were “Pakistani Americans” so either American born of Pakistani descent or were they actually representing the Pakistani government? If the former then who cares, any private American citizen can do whatever they want.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

I’m all for recognising a country that actually has well defined borders. The blanket recognition only serves to legitimise war, annexations, occupation and settler colonialism. Once Israel tells us for sure what their actual border looks like, only then we can entertain the possibility of having diplomatic ties with them.

 

[transparent opacity]

FO rubbishes notion of any delegation from Pakistan visiting Israel

ISLAMABAD:
Islamabad on Sunday categorically rejected the notion of any delegation from Pakistan visiting Israel, a statement issued by the Foreign Office said.

The communique came after reports quoted Israel President Isaac Herzog as saying that he recently received a delegation of Pakistani-Americans, calling it an "amazing experience".

According to the reports, Herzog referred to the development as an example that showed him "great change" vis-a-vis Israel's ties with the Muslim world.

The Israeli president delivered these remarks during a special address at the annual World Economic Forum (WEF) meeting on May 26 in Davos, Switzerland.

The FO said that the reported visit in question was organised by a foreign NGO which is not based in Pakistan.

"Pakistan’s position on the Palestinian issue is clear and unambiguous. There is no change whatsoever in our policy on which there is a complete national consensus." the FO spokesperson said in the statement.

He said that Pakistan steadfastly supports the Palestinian people’s inalienable right to self-determination. "The establishment of an independent, viable and contiguous Palestinian state with pre-1967 borders and Al-Quds Al-Sharif as its capital, in accordance with the relevant UN and OIC resolutions, is imperative for just and lasting peace in the region," he further said.

According to the International News Agency, during the talks at the World Economic Forum in Davos, the Israeli president confirmed the meeting with a Pakistani delegation but did not reveal the identities of the members of the delegation.

Herzog maintained that the two Pakistani nationals were permanently residing in the United States but were “proud Pakistanis”.

He further said that the meeting with the Pakistani delegation was “very welcome” and that he was pleasantly surprised because no Pakistani delegation had ever visited Israel before.

Earlier, Anila Ahmed, a Pakistani-American, shared a photograph on Twitter of her meeting the Israeli president on May 12. In the photograph, she is presenting a book written by her father Qutbuddin Ahmed on Tehreek-e-Pakistan and Quaid-i-Azam to the Israeli president.

Anila Ahmed is a politician, author and teacher and is reputed for her social work in the United States.

Her tweet suggests she was part of the delegation that met with the Israeli president.

Although it was not immediately clear who was part of the Pakistani delegation, former human rights minister Shireen Mazari criticised the inclusion of Pakistan Television (PTV) anchor Waqar Qureshi in the delegation and claimed that it was “shocking” to see him as he worked for a “state institution” of “sensitive nature”.

In response, Qureshi also took to Twitter and stated that Mazari’s former boss, ex-foreign minister Raza Kasuri had held the first “official” Pakistan-Israel meeting in Turkey, “after which Israel waived important license requirements for Pakistan”.

Qureshi further alleged that Mazari had “saved her job by not objecting”.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/235896...-any-delegation-from-pakistan-visiting-israel

 

[Kianig89]

So our Kashkool begging bowl also reached Tel Aviv #shame

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Small steps but hopefully we'll recognize them eventually. It can only benefit us.

 

[MenInG]

Information Minister Marriyum Aurangzeb said on Monday that the Pakistan Television (PTV) has terminated the services of its anchorperson who was a part of a Pakistani-American delegation that visited Israel earlier this month.

The removal of the anchorperson came a day after the Israeli president confirmed a meeting with a delegation of Pakistani expatriates which he termed “an amazing experience”.

An Israeli media outlet, Haaretz, had reported that a 15-member delegation, led by two civil society groups, visited Israel in order to promote interfaith harmony primarily between Muslims and Jews. The trip was organised by the American Muslim and Multifaith Women’s Council and an NGO called Sharaka.

The delegation had included American-Pakistanis, a British Pakistani, and a Pakistani journalist among others. The anchorperson had entered Israel on his Pakistani passport, making it the first-ever trip of its kind.

The visit was criticised by many, especially the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) leadership, which had alleged that the government wanted to recognise Israel. During a rally in Charsadda, former prime minister Imran Khan had said that “slaves of the US” in the government would do everything that had been ordered to them.

However, the Foreign Office and the government distanced themselves from the visit and said the visit was arranged by an NGO which was not based in Pakistan. It added that Islamabad’s position on the Palestinian issue was “clear and unambiguous” and there was no change whatsoever “in our policy” towards the Jewish state.

Express Tribune

 

[MenInG]

Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) Vice-President Maryam Nawaz on Monday took former prime minister Imran Khan to task for his "lies" about a Pakistani-American delegation's recent visit to Israel.

A day earlier, while addressing a public gathering in Charsadda, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) Chairman Imran had criticised the rulers for the said visit, going as far to suggest that the incumbent government is planning to "recognise Israel".

According to the former premier, "The imported government is going to compromise with America on the blood of Palestinians and recognise Israel."

"After the fake letter, foreign conspiracy, and fake life threats, the man who spreads chaos, after the history's biggest long march failure, had resorted to the fake Israel visit narrative," Maryam said in a Twitter post.

The PML-N stalwart went on to tell Imran that he is the only person in the entire country to have 'family terms' with Israel.

Alleging that the PTI chief had in the past supported Zac Goldsmith, his former wife Jemima Goldsmith's brother for London mayoral elections, Maryam said: "I warn you to stop lying or you won't be able to avert embarrassment."

Maryam also added photos to her tweets suggesting the deposed premier's support for Zac and his government's alleged plans to establish diplomatic relations with Israel.

Earlier today, Information Minister Marriyum Aurangzeb said that the Pakistan Television (PTV) had terminated the services of its anchorperson who was a part of a Pakistani-American delegation that visited Israel earlier this month.

The removal of the anchorperson came a day after the Israeli president confirmed a meeting with the delegation of Pakistani expatriates which he termed “an amazing experience”.

 

[Browncaps]

Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) Vice-President Maryam Nawaz on Monday took former prime minister Imran Khan to task for his "lies" about a Pakistani-American delegation's recent visit to Israel.

A day earlier, while addressing a public gathering in Charsadda, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) Chairman Imran had criticised the rulers for the said visit, going as far to suggest that the incumbent government is planning to "recognise Israel".

According to the former premier, "The imported government is going to compromise with America on the blood of Palestinians and recognise Israel."

"After the fake letter, foreign conspiracy, and fake life threats, the man who spreads chaos, after the history's biggest long march failure, had resorted to the fake Israel visit narrative," Maryam said in a Twitter post.

The PML-N stalwart went on to tell Imran that he is the only person in the entire country to have 'family terms' with Israel.

Alleging that the PTI chief had in the past supported Zac Goldsmith, his former wife Jemima Goldsmith's brother for London mayoral elections, Maryam said: "I warn you to stop lying or you won't be able to avert embarrassment."

Maryam also added photos to her tweets suggesting the deposed premier's support for Zac and his government's alleged plans to establish diplomatic relations with Israel.

Earlier today, Information Minister Marriyum Aurangzeb said that the Pakistan Television (PTV) had terminated the services of its anchorperson who was a part of a Pakistani-American delegation that visited Israel earlier this month.

The removal of the anchorperson came a day after the Israeli president confirmed a meeting with the delegation of Pakistani expatriates which he termed “an amazing experience”.

So the NSC of Pakistan which includes army and security agencies are all liars and the demarche they referred to is also fake and a convicted criminal on bail from even more cases who attacked NAB and verbally attacks institutions says that is the case.

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: The revelation that a number of Pakistani expats and a couple of citizens recently travelled to Israel as part of a delegation has sparked a controversy, with former prime minister Imran Khan and his party spinning the incident into their narrative of a foreign conspiracy against the previous government, and alleging that the trip had their successors’ tacit approval.

The issue has been discussed at length in parliament as well as during press conferences and public meetings and portrayed as a political step by the government. The fact that other predominantly Muslim countries, such as the UAE and Turkey, are now also warming up to Tel Aviv, has also played a major role in generating excitement around the visit.

However, two members of the delegation that visited Israel have taken issue with the version of events that is being narrated by the current government and its critics.

The trip’s organiser, Anila Ali, who heads the non-governmental organisation (NGO) American Muslim Multifaith Women’s Empowerment Council (AMMWEC), told Dawn’s Anwar Iqbal they had arranged special permission from the PTI government for one of its members, a Pakistani citizen, to travel to Israel. They were also assued, she said, that he would not be victimised for visiting Israel.

Ahmed Quraishi says he’s not on PTV’s payroll

In an interview with Geo.tv, published on Tuesday, Ms Ali claimed that her NGO aims to build interfaith ties with people of different communities in America. “So, it was a natural alliance with Muslims and Jews that we became partners and decided to visit not just Israel but Dubai and Abu Dhabi as well,” she said.

Ms Ali said she was very sad that politicians in Pakistan, especially Dr Mazari would use an interfaith women’s organization as a ploy to distract from her party’s ouster and failures.

“Our trip had nothing to do with Pakistan and everything to do with Muslim Jewish peacemaking,” she said.

Dawn also spoke with Ahmed Quraishi, the PTV-affiliated journalist who had accompanied the delegates to Israel.

He claimed that the previous PTI government launched the “unexpected” debate on Pakistan-Israel relations. He said the delegates were not there to lobby to establish diplomatic relations between both the countries but the agenda was interfaith harmony, Muslim-Jewish reconciliation and The Abraham Accords.

In a detailed interview with Dawn, Mr Quraishi claimed that he had not been a full-time PTV employee outside of his stint with the state broadcaster in 2004-2008.

He said he was surprised to hear that the government had announced that he had been sacked from PTV. “I am just a freelance journalist who, among other engagements, is paid for hosting a show per episode on PTV.”

He said the government’s announcement meant that it was endorsing PTI’s leadership’s “false claims” about a state employee being sent to Israel. In his opinion, the statement that the government issued through PTV was a political statement, possibly trying to give PTI leadership a concession.

He also claimed that the purpose of his delegation’s visit had “nothing to do with Pakistan”.

Mr Quraishi alleged that the matter was dragged into Pakistani politics and politicised by Shireen Mazari, who used photos of the trip to claim that the Shehbaz Sharif government was conducting covert diplomacy with Tel Aviv.

“Then, the former PM used our visit to strengthen his narrative on an alleged conspiracy to oust his government,” he said, adding that the delegation’s work was “a Middle Eastern story that has no relevance for Pakistani government or politics. The delegation is not a Pakistan-Israel lobbying effort but an effort centered on interfaith harmony, Muslim-Jewish reconciliation, and the second anniversary of Abraham Accords”.

Explaining how he came to be part of the delegation, Mr Quraishi said he had been working as a journalist in Pakistan and the Middle East for around two decades and had accepted the invitation of Anila Ali to join a study tour in partnership with Sharaka, a renowned UAE-based NGO that supports the Abraham Accords.

The Abraham Accords are a series of treaties normalizing diplomatic relations between Israel, the UAE, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco, facilitated by the US Administration between August and December 2020.

Mr Quraishi was also of the opinion that Pakistan and Israel have other business to attend to in this vital region, apart from the nature of the relationship between Israel and Palestine.

He argued that the two were the only nuclear-armed nations in “the Middle East” and both had increasingly come to share the same friends — from China to the United States and a long list of states in between.

“With no direct bilateral conflicts, it sure seems like Pakistanis and Israelis will be bumping into each other in many capitals across the region where both enjoy robust ties,” he said.

When asked if Pakistan should establish diplomatic ties with Tel Aviv, Mr Quraishi said that this was a sovereign decision, which Pakistan had the right to make in alignment with national interests. “What is ironic is that the PTI leadership has launched an unexpected debate in Pakistan on Pakistan-Israel relations when it was not on the agenda of anyone,” he said.

He was also of the opinion that many Pakistanis believed Islamabad should have excellent relations with Palestinians and Israelis. “While Palestinians and Israelis are the only ones who can resolve their conflict, Pakistan might be able to contribute to a peaceful settlement, building on the Palestinian recognition of Israel in 1995 and other bilateral Palestinian-Israel arrangements.”

When asked if the Pakistani government in the loop on his travel plans, Mr Quraishi asked whether every Pakistani journalist working with the international media was bound to obtain clearance from the government. “Prior knowledge is possible but I don’t think Pakistani journalists working abroad for international media seek prior permission, nor does the state demand that.”

Asked whether the Palestine issue came up during their discussions, Mr Quraishi said that no meeting with Israelis can escape that.

Published in Dawn, June 1st, 2022

 

[SpiritOf1903]

It's a strange turnaround to go from 'Israel doesn't exist' to then having trade deals.

It's a nation that was built on a theft. It's a simply crazy premise. 4000 years ago, an ethnic people were displaced. So they returned. Really?.

But the nation exists and that is a reality. How best to proceed?. Ethically, you can't. Realistically, you can.

It goes against Islamic beliefs to allow an occupation of a land so sacred, where the people who've inhabited it for thousands of years have been oppressed like no other, inhumane behaviour being emulated on a worse scale with the Uyghur.

China are subjugating a native people too though the land has no sacred value, yet the humanity is first and it's being allowed carte blanche.

The Arabs have become secular, Islam is now meaningless to their capitalism. Turkey is a confused nation with a relatively modern Islamic heritage which built it but the very core of it is steeped in an ethnic and cultural belief system pre-dating Islam which still has great significance. Equal numbers believe and equal numbers verge on agnostic or atheist belief.

Pakistan was built as an Islamic nation through dialogue, of sorts. It cannot have bilateral ties with a nation that is through occupation, insidiously encroaching all around it.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

I don't recall any outrage from the neo-religious British-Bengalis

 

[sweep_shot]

I don't recall any outrage from the neo-religious British-Bengalis

I think a lot of Bangladeshis don't know about it or don't care about it.

I personally care about it and I condemn this move.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

I think a lot of Bangladeshis don't know about it or don't care about it.

I personally care about it and I condemn this move.

Well if you're religious and proud of your country, as they are, then it's surprising

*Not sure if British yourself

 

[MenInG]

SLAMABAD (AP) — A U.S.-based non-government organization devoted to promoting Muslim-Jewish relations on Friday urged Pakistan’s state-run television to hire back one of its anchors, fired over visiting Israel with an interfaith group last month.

The plea from the Mukhayriq Initiative, which has both Muslim and Jewish members living in the United States and around the world, comes days after journalist Ahmed Quraishi was taken off the air and fired by Pakistan Television following his visit to Jerusalem, where he met with Israeli President Isaac Herzog.

Quraishi was part of a 15-member delegation of mostly Pakistani expatriates living in America that travelled to Israel. The visit came under severe criticism in Pakistan, an overwhelmingly Muslim nation with no diplomatic relations with Israel because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

On Monday, Pakistan’s state-run TV tweeted that it laid off Qureshi who visited Israel in a “personal capacity.”

Among those who assailed the visit was Pakistan’s ousted Prime Minister Imran Khan, a former cricket star turned Islamist politician who was voted out of office in April. Khan claimed the visit to Jerusalem meant to pave the way for Pakistan’s eventual recognition of Israel — something the delegation denied.

The government has also said there are no plans to establish ties with Israel.

The head of the delegation, Anila Ali, a Pakistani-born U.S. citizen living in Washington, defended the visit, telling The Associated Press earlier this week that they only sought to reconcile Muslims and Jews.

The Mukhayriq Initiative’s managing director, Ellie Cohanim, said Friday that Quraishi became “the target of a political agenda for doing nothing more than his job as a journalist.”

She told the AP that after criticism from Khan, “Quraishi began to receive threats to his life” — even though he was only doing the “job of any good journalist, (which is) to seek information on the ground, and to understand issues first-hand.”

Later Friday, Quraishi reiterated in a message sent to the AP that his visit was one “by private individuals, with no direct links to Pakistan and its policies, and covered by me as an independent journalist that works in Pakistan and the region.”

“For any political party to politicize this for temporary political benefit is unfortunate,” he added.

Cohanim said the Mukhayriq Initiative is a new NGO that “seeks to build on the shared history and shared values that bring Muslims and Jews together, knowing that united our peoples can write a new chapter of an ancient relationship.”

Israel and Pakistan have made overtures to each other in the past, most notably when the country’s foreign ministers met in Istanbul in 2005 following Israel’s withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. But there hasn’t been any major public push to bring the countries closer, even as Israel has tightened ties in recent years with India.

According to Pakistan’s national database, there are 745 registered Jewish citizens in Pakistan, which has a population of at least 220 million.

https://apnews.com/article/jerusale...isaac-herzog-5d51bd60aebcc67f7d70dfa859e630fc

 

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https://www.dawn.com/news/1695465/p...s-in-its-own-best-interest-saleem-mandviwalla

Pakistan must do what's in its own best interest: Saleem Mandviwalla on potential ties with Israel