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Should Pakistani selectors be ruthless like the Aussie selectors?

Savak

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When Australia lost the Ashes series in 2005, they ended the careers of Damien Martyn, Jason Gillespie, Michael Kasprowicz for good. This was the first real bad series these players had but such was the passion and intensity with which Australia hates losing and takes losses seriously that the past services of these players was unemotionally ignored and the selectors punished the players for letting down the country. Even a legendary Shane Warne was dropped by Steve Waugh in the best interests of the team.

By and large in comparison to most countries around the world. Australia has a very ruthless culture and they do not tolerate defeats at home at all and everytime Australia has lost a series at home midway for the final test matches they have revamped the squad replacing all the non performing players. However Steve Waugh in a recent interview has implored the Australian selectors that the talent stocks and quality coming from the Australian Domestic Cricket is just not the same and that the selectors needed to embrace the best players they had and back them to the extreme and even sucking up defeats in the process.

I believe other countries in comparison have a far more laid back culture and they are only seriously pressed to make changes when the team has been on a serious losing streak for 6-12 months.

India is a close example, the speed at which they terminated the careers of Sehwag, Harbhajan, Gambhir, Yuvraj Singh, Zaheer Khan, VVS Laxman by 2012-13 is another example even though the vast majority of these players were central to India's 2011 WC win and rise to the top of the test rankings.

In comparison Pakistan has been languishing at the bottom of the rankings in all formats for the last 10 years. We have lost all our major test series against our strongest opponents and the speed with which our test ranking has fallen from no 1 to 7 only serves to show artificial it all was.

The shocking part is Pakistan by and large has been playing and rotating the same cycle of players in the last 10 years. I believe Pakistani selectors in the last 10 years have never really held certain players to account for their failures to perform for the team when they needed the players to really deliver. The vast majority of our players are masters of soft runs ie scoring that one big knock when there is no pressure, easiest batting conditions, less stressful match situation ie both Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq and still look and bat like debutants in their 60th and 70th test matches. For me these players are no better than the likes of Haris Sohail, Shan Masood, Inam ul Haq given that they fail when the team needs them the most and therefore they create no fear factor with the opposition.

For how long will we adopt the grinding approach to batting in all formats of the game? In all the playing conditions and pitches of the world? We have already seen the impact of this batting approach where our team continues to lose in the UAE against the likes of NZ and Sri Lanka.

There is a fine line with continuity for the sake of stability and continuing with mediocrity. I am personally a little shocked that no one in the playing 11 has been made accountable for the NZ defeat.

I personally feel that dropping certain players purely on the basis that they play for their own milestones at the expense of the team, play irresponsible shots and throw their wickets away after getting set, axing a captain due to his non existent individual performance, get out after scoring a 450 ball hundred, turn up unfit to training camp etc will be a good start etc will all serve well to send the message across to the teams and players that they have to embrace the modern era and anyone not falling in line will make way for others that will be hungry to avail their chances.
 
Pakistan already did that in the past. Nothing happened. Boards like Australia and India can afford to be ruthless because they have the players and management working in the right direction.
 
To many connections and family relations within the PCB for our selectors to be ruthless with selections.
 
Right, saying this when the selector is picking everyone from his Aunty to his nephew. Once inzi jr scores a 50 or two he’s be in the side replacing Babar Azam. Telling us if he don’t score by 2030 I’d drop him.

Also Pakistani fans can’t handle ruthless. The same people opening these threads will be the same ones crying conspiracy that RAW is dismantling the Pakistan side and keeping them out as if they were in they would win the World Cup and solve string theory all in a day.

Also Pakistan does not have the structure and management at domestic level to pull up new players like prettt much all top test nations do.
 
they already are ruthless. Thats why we dont see Shehzads, Akmals anymore in the team
 
Interesting thread. Will reserve my opinion for later. However, one thing struck me

India is a close example, the speed at which they terminated the careers of Sehwag, Harbhajan, Gambhir, Yuvraj Singh, Zaheer Khan, VVS Laxman by 2012-13 is another example even though the vast majority of these players were central to India's 2011 WC win and rise to the top of the test rankings.

These players would never have been shown the door if they were Pakistanis. Laxman is on paper younger than Misbah, and dare I say, he would have been playing ODIs till 2012-2014 as captain.
 
When Australia lost the Ashes series in 2005, they ended the careers of Damien Martyn, Jason Gillespie, Michael Kasprowicz for good. This was the first real bad series these players had but such was the passion and intensity with which Australia hates losing and takes losses seriously that the past services of these players was unemotionally ignored and the selectors punished the players for letting down the country. Even a legendary Shane Warne was dropped by Steve Waugh in the best interests of the team.

By and large in comparison to most countries around the world. Australia has a very ruthless culture and they do not tolerate defeats at home at all and everytime Australia has lost a series at home midway for the final test matches they have revamped the squad replacing all the non performing players. However Steve Waugh in a recent interview has implored the Australian selectors that the talent stocks and quality coming from the Australian Domestic Cricket is just not the same and that the selectors needed to embrace the best players they had and back them to the extreme and even sucking up defeats in the process.

I believe other countries in comparison have a far more laid back culture and they are only seriously pressed to make changes when the team has been on a serious losing streak for 6-12 months.

India is a close example, the speed at which they terminated the careers of Sehwag, Harbhajan, Gambhir, Yuvraj Singh, Zaheer Khan, VVS Laxman by 2012-13 is another example even though the vast majority of these players were central to India's 2011 WC win and rise to the top of the test rankings.

In comparison Pakistan has been languishing at the bottom of the rankings in all formats for the last 10 years. We have lost all our major test series against our strongest opponents and the speed with which our test ranking has fallen from no 1 to 7 only serves to show artificial it all was.

The shocking part is Pakistan by and large has been playing and rotating the same cycle of players in the last 10 years. I believe Pakistani selectors in the last 10 years have never really held certain players to account for their failures to perform for the team when they needed the players to really deliver. The vast majority of our players are masters of soft runs ie scoring that one big knock when there is no pressure, easiest batting conditions, less stressful match situation ie both Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq and still look and bat like debutants in their 60th and 70th test matches. For me these players are no better than the likes of Haris Sohail, Shan Masood, Inam ul Haq given that they fail when the team needs them the most and therefore they create no fear factor with the opposition.

For how long will we adopt the grinding approach to batting in all formats of the game? In all the playing conditions and pitches of the world? We have already seen the impact of this batting approach where our team continues to lose in the UAE against the likes of NZ and Sri Lanka.

There is a fine line with continuity for the sake of stability and continuing with mediocrity. I am personally a little shocked that no one in the playing 11 has been made accountable for the NZ defeat.

I personally feel that dropping certain players purely on the basis that they play for their own milestones at the expense of the team, play irresponsible shots and throw their wickets away after getting set, axing a captain due to his non existent individual performance, get out after scoring a 450 ball hundred, turn up unfit to training camp etc will be a good start etc will all serve well to send the message across to the teams and players that they have to embrace the modern era and anyone not falling in line will make way for others that will be hungry to avail their chances.

POTW - summarises the issues with Pakistan selections very well and their inability to develop teams of the future since they have yet to grasp how to achieve succession planning.

For e.g. having Misbah and YK retire at the same time when the former should have retired after the drawn series against a minnow Zimbabwe.

Another good example is when [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] raised the importance of playing Babar Azam in a UAE series against Australia (5 years ago), after his terrific showing for the A side in the warm games prior to that series.

It isn't even about being ruthless, the appalling cricketing culture in Pakistan revolves around seniority and there is a non-existent environment where younger players can challenge thoughts and ideas. They remain in default mode and therefore unable to adapt.

This is why India and SENA will continue to progress further leaving Pakistan to dwindle into minnow status under the current circumstances.
 
Theyre not ruthless, no way near.

They scratch each other's back all the time..hell thats all they do.

Very loyal to the ones they pick, so loyal keep bringing em back.
 
LOL....ruthless. CA is a professional setup even with its drawbacks. PCB on the other hand is being run by a bunch of clowns who are more interested in promoting their personal agendas than cricket. One would have hoped that with IK at the helm of the country, things would have changed for teh betterment of cricket but Alas, he is a politician now and sadly cricket is not a priority for him as well.
 
Ideally yes, but it is not going to make any substantial difference. You will ultimately be replacing one batch of mediocre players with another.

We need to realize that Pakistan cricket has a reached a point where it is incapable of produce elite players. Even the best Pakistani players are merely good by international standards.

We can play the selection game all we want and argue who should play and who should not, but there is no possible playing eleven in the country that can propel us to the top three in Tests and ODIs.

The “we are the best in T20s” drama will be over soon too, so enjoy it while it lasts.
 
Ideally yes, but it is not going to make any substantial difference. You will ultimately be replacing one batch of mediocre players with another.

We need to realize that Pakistan cricket has a reached a point where it is incapable of produce elite players. Even the best Pakistani players are merely good by international standards.

We can play the selection game all we want and argue who should play and who should not, but there is no possible playing eleven in the country that can propel us to the top three in Tests and ODIs.

The “we are the best in T20s” drama will be over soon too, so enjoy it while it lasts.

If one mediocre batch fails, it should make way for the other mediocre batch and the cycle should continue. No need to carry on non improving failures forever where there is no difference bw someone making this debut and someone playing his 70th test match
 
If one mediocre batch fails, it should make way for the other mediocre batch and the cycle should continue. No need to carry on non improving failures forever where there is no difference bw someone making this debut and someone playing his 70th test match

Of course that is true, but my point was from the perspective of the supporters and how they should not get excited when underperformers are dropped.

The hopefuls and young talents of today will be the TTFs of tomorrow. It is also futile to blame the players - they are doing what they can, but ultimately they are products of a rotten system.
 
Of course that is true, but my point was from the perspective of the supporters and how they should not get excited when underperformers are dropped.

The hopefuls and young talents of today will be the TTFs of tomorrow. It is also futile to blame the players - they are doing what they can, but ultimately they are products of a rotten system.

The players doing what they can can be questioned.
Am pretty sure that the work ethic of the vast majority of the players as far as their skills and fitness is concerned can be questioned. Players as they play more and more in different conditions against different oppositions are expected to get better and better with the passage of time as is expected from any individual doing a job in the corporate sector.

But sadly our players just regress, reach a plateau and keep making the same mistakes again and again. Maybe that's just human nature and life where after you make a certain amount of money in the bank, your drive to improve and work hard diminishes.

I contrast and compare this with Kohli who is never satisfied and is always looking to do even better today than he did yesterday but he is the exception.

But questions can be asked if our players had a better work ethic and attitude towards the game, can they do better than their present output?
 
The players doing what they can can be questioned.
Am pretty sure that the work ethic of the vast majority of the players as far as their skills and fitness is concerned can be questioned. Players as they play more and more in different conditions against different oppositions are expected to get better and better with the passage of time as is expected from any individual doing a job in the corporate sector.

But sadly our players just regress, reach a plateau and keep making the same mistakes again and again. Maybe that's just human nature and life where after you make a certain amount of money in the bank, your drive to improve and work hard diminishes.

I contrast and compare this with Kohli who is never satisfied and is always looking to do even better today than he did yesterday but he is the exception.

But questions can be asked if our players had a better work ethic and attitude towards the game, can they do better than their present output?

That also boils down to our rotten culture to a great extent. More often than not, players will only be motivated if you cultivate a culture of excellence where mediocrity will not be tolerated.

However, this has to happen at the domestic level first, and only then will you get competitive teams. Historically, Australia have been the most dominant cricket nation in spite of having a small talent pool, and that is down to their competitive, combative nature.

You look around our domestic cricket and more than half of the young players don’t like like athletes to begin with, simply because they are not being pushed.

Then of course you have role models like Inzamam who misguided a generation of Pakistani cricketers by giving them the impression that you do not need to work on your fitness to become a legend.

India had the same problem up until the 90’s. In spite of having the biggest talent pool in the game, they did not have a culture of sporting excellence. They did not have the competitive spirit that allowed nations like Australia, South Africa and New Zealand to punch above their weights.

However, they managed to evolve their mindset and you can see its results not only in cricket but also in other sports. They are becoming a sporting nation and their young athletes are driven and motivated to be the best they can be.

Pakistan of course is still lagging behind big time. Mickey can push the players all they want and attempt to create a winning environment, but by the time our players get to play for Pakistan, the damage is already done.

You cannot expect a player who has spent his formative years in a uncompetitive, misdirected system to develop a killer instinct after getting picked for the national team.

I have started to feel for Mickey now. He is a brilliant coach with great vision, but he is a misfit in our culture. The players simply do not have the attitude to complement his vision. He has no choice but to publicly back the likes of Shafiq, Azhar, Sarfraz etc. but deep down he is well aware of the true worth of our players.

I won’t be surprised if he is simply waiting to get sacked now or to just walk away when his contract expires. He was and probably still is highly motivated for this job but ultimately it is a lost cause.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] - I partially both agree & disagree with you.

First, agreement - yes, it's not easy for PCB now. The player pool is almost barren and there has not been a phase out plan - your revolutionary has taken the average age of A team over 30, made a National squad member as Emerging team's Captain ... and what not - Rahat Ali might play for PAK, PAK A & Emerging at a time :( So yes, it's not easy to dump anymore players like Qasim Umar, Ataur Rehman, Zahid Fazal, Md. Zahid, Salim Elahi, Mushtaq Ahmed ..... and smoothly replace them from reserves.

But, does it mean that, PAK's Test XI, against an Aussie team probably at their lowest ebb in their glorious history or a decent at best Kiwi side - should have 8 players over 30, 9th one 29 and 11th one nephew in a Series in UAE? And, I must say, these are official age by PAK's standard. Do you really think situation is that desperate, that a limping MoHa should be summoned or Sarfraz has to be backed as Captain unconditionally, or Bilal has to be the specialist spinner? I keep Imam out of it because we know the reason, different case.

Had Imam not been nephew and Abbas not been injured, PAK could have gone to last Test with FZ/Shan & Abbas for Afridi - that's an official age of 29/29, 38, 34, 30, 33, 26, 32, 33, 32, 24, 29 = Average 31. If I put my decent assessment, that's an average biological age of 35 - do you genuinely believe the situation is this low? If this is the case, then 3-4 years time PAK is destined to go down outside 10 in Test & ODI ranking, because in modern days with so many games and travelling around, you can't operate a team with such old bunch and if there is no back-up players, team can only go down. This is not Chess or Contract Bridge that you can improve with age and be top in your game even in 50s - it's a highly skilled game which needs extreme reflexes, eye sight and mental endurance (physical as well). If there is no alternative than calling back a bang average MoHa, better PAK Govt. should rethink about investing in cricket - similar money in Hockey can take PAK to WC SF every time.

Coming to AUS - yes their system is (was) the best in world and till 2010s, many AUS players actually had a better Test record than Shield record because those 6 teams in their Shield were definitely better than most Test teams in AUS and competitive every where. In 1990s, NSW could have been No. 1 Test team in world with a team like - Taylor, Slater, Waugh Twins, Bevan, Mac, Lee Bros, McGill, DFleming .... and few others I have forgotten now.

But, is that the only reason they ruled the world? I AM CERTAIN, IT WASN'T THE CASE. Rather what made AUS dominate world is their set own standard - every player knows (knew) that, there is no compromise when it comes to wear the Baggy Green - you have to be on top of your game, you have to give it 100%, or you are out. I give a classic example - 1983, 3 of the best ever cricketers retired on same day - DK, Greg & Rod. Then, Yellop took half of remaining squad to SAF (forgot who were there, but I think Lawson, Alderman, Bright, Trevor Chappel, Maguire, Dyson, Hilditch were in that tour). AUS were literally hammered by everyone - did they go back to Chappels, Thompson, Hogg, Pascoe, Walters, Redpath or other 30+ seniors dumped from the team few years back? NO - they took the beating with tight chin, cleared the entire stable including the finest batsman of his day Kim Hughes, and started with a clear board - AB captain, Waugh (20), Jones (21), Marsh (23), Boon (22), Valeta (19), Ritchie (23), McDermott (19), Reid (22), Dodamaide (21), Greg Methews (24) ..... and forgot other names - that's an average age of around 23, and I can tell you in PAK standard that's an average official age of around 19!!!!! They brought Bobby Simpson to assist AB, and in 2-3 years time, that unit won WC!!!! Is this only for the quality of domestics or talent pool? It was Aussie style vengeance - they had self respect and they wanted to change their fate, this was pride. What Ul Haq is doing being a PAK Captain for 4 years, a WC winner and someone backed at raw age by one great visionary leader - should sum up PCBs way of thinking.

In PAK cricket, most of these players are complacent - domestics are not producing players, which can affect in long term, but these guys playing for 10-12 years have shown ZERO commitment to improve their game, because they know Ul Haq (or any one on that chair) will back them and keep their chair warm. I give another example - take Yasir Shah. He is a Cat A player, earns more than enough for a PAK player (can't compare with Ashiwn, then Ashwin should stop practicing because he can complain for the pay cheque of top MLB Pitchers), and he plays only in Test - IS IT LOGICAL FOR HIM TO BE A DUMMY WITH BAT? Guy doesn't need to be Babar Azam, but is it really difficult for him to put 2-3 hours in nets and take his batting average to 23-25? He has become a laughing stalk from a very decent start with bat, because of complacence, and nothing else; just not proud enough to wear his PAK Cap, otherwise I don't think Lyon is a better bat than Yasir (you know from where this comparison comes).

PAK needs a rude, sadistic, arrogant with self pride dictator to run PCB - rest you can imagine. I can tell you Imran Khan was one of the most arrogant player the game had ever seen and he wasn't sober on/off field certainly (he made jurnos wait for a hour, then cancelled the press conference at Dhaka, and it was pre planned - because someone wrote some spicy comments against him in previous day), but he had self respect, he had pride, probably more than his quality as a player and he had respect for his country, he owned that PAK Cap ....... these Ul Haq, Sarfarz, MoHa, Wahab, Amir, Asad, Azhar ..... are shallow, meek character - don't have the guts, neither quality nor the persona. You don't expect revolution under such characters.

You may be hurt with harsh words, but I have seen long, long enough and lot, lot enough - this is my honest assessment.
 
personal opinion

Australian Team

Is a collection of men who either look at there fellow team members firstly as team mates and secondly as friends

Pakistan team

Is a collection of men brought together who see there fellow team members as firstly seniority older/younger brothers, poss even other connection regards religious peer party affiliation peer bhai,

Many may disagree, but to me this is not a healthy team ethic, becouse everything else comes before team mate !!

Then you have the selectors Inzi bhai etc


I would go as far as hiring foreign ex players to scout and form your selectors panel
 
Excellent post [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION].

To further add my comments regarding players not caring. E.g. Shafiq was relaxed throughout the rest of the game after he made his 100. He looked lost in his own thoughts, dropping catches yet looking at vacant spaces. Haris showed no disappointment on leaving Pak reeling at 43/3 because he knew he had made his 100 for the series. Hafeez was more interested in shamelessly raising his bat to the "fans" after getting castled. Worst of all, and I am not even a Pakistani fan yet Babar's dismissal infuriated me. He got his petty golden 50 in a most probably (at that time) losing cause and unnecessarily started hoicking Patel. It wasn't "one" moment of madness, it was a series of moments which led to his dismissal. As if once he got to his 50, he believed his job was done. I know he had to stick around for 20 more overs and expect his partner to do the same, which is a daunting task, but he didn't even want to try. Why would you try to hit a six otherwise when all you have to do is survive?
 
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That also boils down to our rotten culture to a great extent. More often than not, players will only be motivated if you cultivate a culture of excellence where mediocrity will not be tolerated.

However, this has to happen at the domestic level first, and only then will you get competitive teams. Historically, Australia have been the most dominant cricket nation in spite of having a small talent pool, and that is down to their competitive, combative nature.

You look around our domestic cricket and more than half of the young players don’t like like athletes to begin with, simply because they are not being pushed.

Then of course you have role models like Inzamam who misguided a generation of Pakistani cricketers by giving them the impression that you do not need to work on your fitness to become a legend.

India had the same problem up until the 90’s. In spite of having the biggest talent pool in the game, they did not have a culture of sporting excellence. They did not have the competitive spirit that allowed nations like Australia, South Africa and New Zealand to punch above their weights.

However, they managed to evolve their mindset and you can see its results not only in cricket but also in other sports. They are becoming a sporting nation and their young athletes are driven and motivated to be the best they can be.

Pakistan of course is still lagging behind big time. Mickey can push the players all they want and attempt to create a winning environment, but by the time our players get to play for Pakistan, the damage is already done.

You cannot expect a player who has spent his formative years in a uncompetitive, misdirected system to develop a killer instinct after getting picked for the national team.

I have started to feel for Mickey now. He is a brilliant coach with great vision, but he is a misfit in our culture. The players simply do not have the attitude to complement his vision. He has no choice but to publicly back the likes of Shafiq, Azhar, Sarfraz etc. but deep down he is well aware of the true worth of our players.

I won’t be surprised if he is simply waiting to get sacked now or to just walk away when his contract expires. He was and probably still is highly motivated for this job but ultimately it is a lost cause.

Not often I 👍to a post. Couldn't have said these views better
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] - I partially both agree & disagree with you.

First, agreement - yes, it's not easy for PCB now. The player pool is almost barren and there has not been a phase out plan - your revolutionary has taken the average age of A team over 30, made a National squad member as Emerging team's Captain ... and what not - Rahat Ali might play for PAK, PAK A & Emerging at a time :( So yes, it's not easy to dump anymore players like Qasim Umar, Ataur Rehman, Zahid Fazal, Md. Zahid, Salim Elahi, Mushtaq Ahmed ..... and smoothly replace them from reserves.

But, does it mean that, PAK's Test XI, against an Aussie team probably at their lowest ebb in their glorious history or a decent at best Kiwi side - should have 8 players over 30, 9th one 29 and 11th one nephew in a Series in UAE? And, I must say, these are official age by PAK's standard. Do you really think situation is that desperate, that a limping MoHa should be summoned or Sarfraz has to be backed as Captain unconditionally, or Bilal has to be the specialist spinner? I keep Imam out of it because we know the reason, different case.

Had Imam not been nephew and Abbas not been injured, PAK could have gone to last Test with FZ/Shan & Abbas for Afridi - that's an official age of 29/29, 38, 34, 30, 33, 26, 32, 33, 32, 24, 29 = Average 31. If I put my decent assessment, that's an average biological age of 35 - do you genuinely believe the situation is this low? If this is the case, then 3-4 years time PAK is destined to go down outside 10 in Test & ODI ranking, because in modern days with so many games and travelling around, you can't operate a team with such old bunch and if there is no back-up players, team can only go down. This is not Chess or Contract Bridge that you can improve with age and be top in your game even in 50s - it's a highly skilled game which needs extreme reflexes, eye sight and mental endurance (physical as well). If there is no alternative than calling back a bang average MoHa, better PAK Govt. should rethink about investing in cricket - similar money in Hockey can take PAK to WC SF every time.

Coming to AUS - yes their system is (was) the best in world and till 2010s, many AUS players actually had a better Test record than Shield record because those 6 teams in their Shield were definitely better than most Test teams in AUS and competitive every where. In 1990s, NSW could have been No. 1 Test team in world with a team like - Taylor, Slater, Waugh Twins, Bevan, Mac, Lee Bros, McGill, DFleming .... and few others I have forgotten now.

But, is that the only reason they ruled the world? I AM CERTAIN, IT WASN'T THE CASE. Rather what made AUS dominate world is their set own standard - every player knows (knew) that, there is no compromise when it comes to wear the Baggy Green - you have to be on top of your game, you have to give it 100%, or you are out. I give a classic example - 1983, 3 of the best ever cricketers retired on same day - DK, Greg & Rod. Then, Yellop took half of remaining squad to SAF (forgot who were there, but I think Lawson, Alderman, Bright, Trevor Chappel, Maguire, Dyson, Hilditch were in that tour). AUS were literally hammered by everyone - did they go back to Chappels, Thompson, Hogg, Pascoe, Walters, Redpath or other 30+ seniors dumped from the team few years back? NO - they took the beating with tight chin, cleared the entire stable including the finest batsman of his day Kim Hughes, and started with a clear board - AB captain, Waugh (20), Jones (21), Marsh (23), Boon (22), Valeta (19), Ritchie (23), McDermott (19), Reid (22), Dodamaide (21), Greg Methews (24) ..... and forgot other names - that's an average age of around 23, and I can tell you in PAK standard that's an average official age of around 19!!!!! They brought Bobby Simpson to assist AB, and in 2-3 years time, that unit won WC!!!! Is this only for the quality of domestics or talent pool? It was Aussie style vengeance - they had self respect and they wanted to change their fate, this was pride. What Ul Haq is doing being a PAK Captain for 4 years, a WC winner and someone backed at raw age by one great visionary leader - should sum up PCBs way of thinking.

In PAK cricket, most of these players are complacent - domestics are not producing players, which can affect in long term, but these guys playing for 10-12 years have shown ZERO commitment to improve their game, because they know Ul Haq (or any one on that chair) will back them and keep their chair warm. I give another example - take Yasir Shah. He is a Cat A player, earns more than enough for a PAK player (can't compare with Ashiwn, then Ashwin should stop practicing because he can complain for the pay cheque of top MLB Pitchers), and he plays only in Test - IS IT LOGICAL FOR HIM TO BE A DUMMY WITH BAT? Guy doesn't need to be Babar Azam, but is it really difficult for him to put 2-3 hours in nets and take his batting average to 23-25? He has become a laughing stalk from a very decent start with bat, because of complacence, and nothing else; just not proud enough to wear his PAK Cap, otherwise I don't think Lyon is a better bat than Yasir (you know from where this comparison comes).

PAK needs a rude, sadistic, arrogant with self pride dictator to run PCB - rest you can imagine. I can tell you Imran Khan was one of the most arrogant player the game had ever seen and he wasn't sober on/off field certainly (he made jurnos wait for a hour, then cancelled the press conference at Dhaka, and it was pre planned - because someone wrote some spicy comments against him in previous day), but he had self respect, he had pride, probably more than his quality as a player and he had respect for his country, he owned that PAK Cap ....... these Ul Haq, Sarfarz, MoHa, Wahab, Amir, Asad, Azhar ..... are shallow, meek character - don't have the guts, neither quality nor the persona. You don't expect revolution under such characters.

You may be hurt with harsh words, but I have seen long, long enough and lot, lot enough - this is my honest assessment.

👍 Post and this is the legacy that Misbah ul haq is leaving us where players in their 30's were welcomed with open arms and where slow, defensive grinding batting was encouraged and players with Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq type personalities were promoted and encouraged and the result of everything is in front of us now. Not a single player with aura or personality capable of uplifting the team inspirationally is available atm
 
Excellent post [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION].

To further add my comments regarding players not caring. E.g. Shafiq was relaxed throughout the rest of the game after he made his 100. He looked lost in his own thoughts, dropping catches yet looking at vacant spaces. Haris showed no disappointment on leaving Pak reeling at 43/3 because he knew he had made his 100 for the series. Hafeez was more interested in shamelessly raising his bat to the "fans" after getting castled. Worst of all, and I am not even a Pakistani fan yet Babar's dismissal infuriated me. He got his petty golden 50 in a most probably (at that time) losing cause and unnecessarily started hoicking Patel. It wasn't "one" moment of madness, it was a series of moments which led to his dismissal. As if once he got to his 50, he believed his job was done. I know he had to stick around for 20 more overs and expect his partner to do the same, which is a daunting task, but he didn't even want to try. Why would you try to hit a six otherwise when all you have to do is survive?

More than the series defeat, i was even more infuriated with the manner in which Babar Azam just threw his wicket away and surrendered after scoring his useless 50. If I had my way and had the powers, I would drop him purely on the basis of that shot to send a message to him and the entire squad, i guarantee that ik as captain would certainly have done so.
 
More than the series defeat, i was even more infuriated with the manner in which Babar Azam just threw his wicket away and surrendered after scoring his useless 50. If I had my way and had the powers, I would drop him purely on the basis of that shot to send a message to him and the entire squad, i guarantee that ik as captain would certainly have done so.

Which is what happened to D-Martyn after he played a pathetic cover-drive that cost AUS the SCG Tets in 94' against SA by 5 runs.

He was made the scapegoat by the media and dropped at 22!

He had to wait six years before getting another chance to play a Test and three for an ODI.

Ponting declared in an interview that they had to score 400 in a day's worth of FC cricket at the ACA in the early 90's. Most teams cannot even do that today which explains the gulf in class between THAT Aussie generation and the current one.
 
More than the series defeat, i was even more infuriated with the manner in which Babar Azam just threw his wicket away and surrendered after scoring his useless 50. If I had my way and had the powers, I would drop him purely on the basis of that shot to send a message to him and the entire squad, i guarantee that ik as captain would certainly have done so.

I would do the same. Unfortunately, media will later hound the one who drops him.
 
Ideally yes, but it is not going to make any substantial difference. You will ultimately be replacing one batch of mediocre players with another.

We need to realize that Pakistan cricket has a reached a point where it is incapable of produce elite players. Even the best Pakistani players are merely good by international standards.

We can play the selection game all we want and argue who should play and who should not, but there is no possible playing eleven in the country that can propel us to the top three in Tests and ODIs.

The “we are the best in T20s” drama will be over soon too, so enjoy it while it lasts.

Disagree.

The sooner you replace the novice performers out of the rotten system, the better able they can perform at the international stage.

But they are essentially handicapped because the other players have been grandfathered into the pressure of international cricket.
 
When selectors are more interested in taking care of friends and family, ruthless selection on merit is not possible.
 
Aussie selections are rife with bias and politics. They have neglected a lot of consistent FC performers to give the likes of Shaun Marsh and Mitch Marsh long ropes. Heck they chose to give Moises Heinriques a proper test auditon without any basis other than a gut feeling that he would magically turn into a Steve Waugh/Steve Smith type middle order batsman.

Pakistan needs to fix things from the ground up. If your domestic cricket has been eaten away by termites, the int'l team won't be able to stay competitive for long. Simple as that.

Fix domestic cricket and the facilities. Schedule a minimum of 3 to 5 A team tours for your prospects every year. Be humble, take tours to Zim, BD, Ireland, NZ - whatever you get. Need to do this for a few years so maybe in 2 3 years you have some reasonable batsmen to pick from. Until you do that, Pakistan fans will have to settle for being "unpredictable" i.e. pull off flukey wins once in a while.
 
Aussie selections are rife with bias and politics. They have neglected a lot of consistent FC performers to give the likes of Shaun Marsh and Mitch Marsh long ropes. Heck they chose to give Moises Heinriques a proper test auditon without any basis other than a gut feeling that he would magically turn into a Steve Waugh/Steve Smith type middle order batsman.

Pakistan needs to fix things from the ground up. If your domestic cricket has been eaten away by termites, the int'l team won't be able to stay competitive for long. Simple as that.

Fix domestic cricket and the facilities. Schedule a minimum of 3 to 5 A team tours for your prospects every year. Be humble, take tours to Zim, BD, Ireland, NZ - whatever you get. Need to do this for a few years so maybe in 2 3 years you have some reasonable batsmen to pick from. Until you do that, Pakistan fans will have to settle for being "unpredictable" i.e. pull off flukey wins once in a while.

Playing against minnows is hurtful for our cricket in the long run, sure you can play the odd series here and there but overall the lack of quality instills a false sense of security and confidence and the Pakistani team after playing mostly the likes of Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe got a harsh dose of reality during the Asia Cup where literally the entire squad and coaching staff appeared to be shell shocked by the massive jump in quality of the opposition.

I would rather pay extra but mostly play against the very best i.e. England, Australia, NZ, South Africa
 
Aussie selections are rife with bias and politics. They have neglected a lot of consistent FC performers to give the likes of Shaun Marsh and Mitch Marsh long ropes. Heck they chose to give Moises Heinriques a proper test auditon without any basis other than a gut feeling that he would magically turn into a Steve Waugh/Steve Smith type middle order batsman.

Pakistan needs to fix things from the ground up. If your domestic cricket has been eaten away by termites, the int'l team won't be able to stay competitive for long. Simple as that.

Fix domestic cricket and the facilities. Schedule a minimum of 3 to 5 A team tours for your prospects every year. Be humble, take tours to Zim, BD, Ireland, NZ - whatever you get. Need to do this for a few years so maybe in 2 3 years you have some reasonable batsmen to pick from. Until you do that, Pakistan fans will have to settle for being "unpredictable" i.e. pull off flukey wins once in a while.

Australia is not the best example tbh. The amount of opportunities that the Marsh bros have got despite poor performances is embarrassing. Others like Maxwell and other domestic performers deserved an opportunity.
 
Australia is not the best example tbh. The amount of opportunities that the Marsh bros have got despite poor performances is embarrassing. Others like Maxwell and other domestic performers deserved an opportunity.

I believe Big Bash is what has hurt Australian Cricket big time. Dashers, aggressive stroke players are now more in favour than old fashioned fighters like Steve Waugh, Justin Langer e.t.c. These are the kind of players Australia needs in their test teams, players who will put a price on their wicket, will take blows e.t.c.
 
I believe Big Bash is what has hurt Australian Cricket big time. Dashers, aggressive stroke players are now more in favour than old fashioned fighters like Steve Waugh, Justin Langer e.t.c. These are the kind of players Australia needs in their test teams, players who will put a price on their wicket, will take blows e.t.c.

True. I remember Shane Warne advocated for Darcy Short to open in test match cricket. It shows how the standards have fell.
 
True. I remember Shane Warne advocated for Darcy Short to open in test match cricket. It shows how the standards have fell.

Now you have Australian players who are just good in their own conditions even though that can be challenged in the absence of Smith and Warner, they can't play the swing, seaming conditions in England, can't play in the sub continent
 
Playing against minnows is hurtful for our cricket in the long run, sure you can play the odd series here and there but overall the lack of quality instills a false sense of security and confidence and the Pakistani team after playing mostly the likes of Sri Lanka, Zimbabwe got a harsh dose of reality during the Asia Cup where literally the entire squad and coaching staff appeared to be shell shocked by the massive jump in quality of the opposition.

I would rather pay extra but mostly play against the very best i.e. England, Australia, NZ, South Africa

Playing against minnows is hurtful for the senior team - not so much for the A team - it will help identify which players have potential to take the next step and weed out the pretenders who get exposed.

Problem for Pakistan is that the "senior" players like to fill their boots against the minnows and then brag about "accomplishing milestones" etc.
 
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