Sidelined seniors, complaining now about something that they never done themselves

[Major]

I find it funny how the senior domestic cricketers that got overlooked for the upcoming domestic tournament are all of a sudden reminding everyone their own importance in grooming youngsters and have also started to bash Sarfraz, Misbah and Malik for playing cricket till their late 30s.

Interestingly, the senior cricketers that got dropped and that are complaining are all those senior guys that failed to mentor anyone.

These comments came in after Sohaib Maqsood whined about it, than Ahmed Shezad started targeting, Umar Akmal showed his displeasure and even Sohail Tanvir out of all people came out to say his experience can help youngsters. All of them also gave example of Misbah, Malik and Sarfraz.

Now the thing about Misbah, Malik and Sarfraz is that these three domestic stalwarts, did give back to their domestic team. Misbah was behind getting Faisalabad a region status, helped its players and even developed SNGPL. Meanwhile, there isnt a need for me to talk about Malik's contribution at Sialkot region, as the guy single handedly developed one the top domestic sides, especially in t20 cricket. Meanwhile, every youngster till this day talks about Sarfraz's contribution not only to Karachi region, but to club cricket of Karachi.

Now compare the above seniors to the seniors of today.

Sohail Tanvir is complaining that his experience could had helped youngsters. I think many posters from Pindi that have been watching Faysal Bank t20 cricket know very well how Sohail Tanvir used to promote himself to no.4 and no5. and ended up destroying Hammad Azam's career. Sohaib Maqsood has done nothing for Multan cricketers and region. Ahmed Shezad, even after being a senior in domestic cricket, is only concerned with his own performance, while less said about Umar Akmal the better.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

It's all about ensuring continued income and you can't earn it until you paint yourself as the special one.

 

[Major]

It's all about ensuring continued income and you can't earn it until you paint yourself as the special one.

What really bothered me was Sohail Tanvir of all people coming out and saying how he would had helped youngsters.

Everyone in Pindi's club circuit knows he was the guy that destroyed Hammad Azam's career

 

[The Bald Eagle]

He was a great talent equivalent to Pakistan's maxwell

What really bothered me was Sohail Tanvir of all people coming out and saying how he would had helped youngsters.

Everyone in Pindi's club circuit knows he was the guy that destroyed Hammad Azam's career

 

[ads101]

Just the sign of the times. It was like hell broke loose when we lost that final in World cup t20 2022. We were nowhere near expected to get to the final, we didn't have a strong team on paper compared to other teams but it didn't matter.

When we used to have strong teams with batsmen like Yousuf, Inzi etc. we used to do rubbish in tournaments. People hardly cared. Or at least way less than they do now. They actually underperformed as a whole in tournaments. For the last 15 years or so, our team has actually outperformed the strength of the actual team. Yet the latter gets criticised far more than the former. Even tests, we got no.1 with a side that had been weakened after fixing. Yet the highest position we got under Inzi was no.2 I believe despite having many more actual talented players

Just unrealistic expectations, and it invites fear and panic. People think somehow you can will your team to win tournaments. Other teams outside Pakistan (and maybe India) do not put this much pressure and stress. Might be the reason why India despite doing the best bilaterally for the last decade or so, has hardly any tournament wins to show for it. Certain past players as commentators, youtube channels etc. play up to it for attention and pander to these over the top fans. Just so easy to criticise and blame for nothing, when I'm sure they would have hated the same done to them when they were playing.

It reminds me of a parent who criticises his child the same for getting an A- and getting an E. You just can't encourage consistent improvement with that mentality. And then there is no accountability as all failure feels the same whether its losing in the t20 final or getting whitewashed by Bangladesh.

Something I've thought for a while. I've faced failure many times in sport (though not as high a level as these guys but still competitive) and businesses. And it can be really embarrassing failure. But I think I would have been paralysed to move forward past these failures had I endured the pressure and criticism like the Pakistani cricket team does. Failure is honestly something you just shrug off and try again. If you just get preoccupied about it and make yourself feel it too much, you just can't move past it. I really do think the amount of over the top pressure the Pakistani team get is probably the most relative to their actual strength in the side out of most sport teams I can think of. It's a bit crazy, we're often not rational.

 

[mominsaigol]

He was a great talent equivalent to Pakistan's maxwell

Lol no

 

[mominsaigol]

What really bothered me was Sohail Tanvir of all people coming out and saying how he would had helped youngsters.

Everyone in Pindi's club circuit knows he was the guy that destroyed Hammad Azam's career

Good thread, but tanvir destroyed Azam's career? Wasn't Shahid Afridi the one who did that?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

He was a great talent equivalent to Pakistan's maxwell

Sohail Tanveer or Hammad Azam?

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Sohail Tanveer or Hammad Azam?

Hammad Azam

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Pakistan cricket these days is just one set of ex-players trying to leech money off PCB and another set of ignored ex-players complaining that why they are not part of that loot.
Misbah is the biggest leech.. He is gonna earn 50 Lac PKR per month for next 3 years just being a mentor.(as per Ahmad Shehzad). How is this justified in a basket case poor country like Pakistan?

 

[MenInG]

Need to be careful here.

If we replaced the name of the sidelined player with Joe Blog, would that opinion still make sense?

I know it's tough because we have our own likes/dislikes but we need to be able to get over the "shoot the messenger" syndrome.

 

[Bhaijaan]

The cricketers that are fit for leadership, coaching , management positions :-

* Those who maximised their talent
* Realists by nature, who introspect and work on themselves rather than look for external excuses
* Work more, talk less.
Display a high degree of professionalism

To be honest i respect Misbah in that regard. It’s a fact that he was never a trail blazer except in 2007 WT20. But he was someone who took his mediocre level god given talent to make a very decent career for himself such that nobody can ever ridicule him on the basis of his record. He is careful with his words and practices great degree of professionalism. People tend to blame him for everything , those are the people who had no idea about the reality of their cricket.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The cricketers that are fit for leadership, coaching , management positions :-

* Those who maximised their talent
* Realists by nature, who introspect and work on themselves rather than look for external excuses
* Work more, talk less.
Display a high degree of professionalism

To be honest i respect Misbah in that regard. It’s a fact that he was never a trail blazer except in 2007 WT20. But he was someone who took his mediocre level god given talent to make a very decent career for himself such that nobody can ever ridicule him on the basis of his record. He is careful with his words and practices great degree of professionalism. People tend to blame him for everything , those are the people who had no idea about the reality of their cricket.

Hafeez could have been a good coach but he fails your walk more talk less criteria.

The honest truth is I don't trust any of our ex players. They are all selfish opportunitists.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Hafeez could have been a good coach but he fails your walk more talk less criteria.

The honest truth is I don't trust any of our ex players. They are all selfish opportunitists.

Yes, Hafeez actually improved as a cricketer more than Misbah even. I made comments about Hafeez 3.0 which many people thought was trolling but in my opinion he actually transformed himself although quite late in his career.

If only he talked less and let his actions do the talking it would have been better but things are genuinely so messy in PCT may be it’s the only way to make a way for yourself.

 

[Asif321]

Misbah , Malik and Sarfraz are widely respected in Pakistan cricket . These guys who have no future will obviously complain . What does maqsood have to prove now ? Ahmed shahzad is giving lame excuses that you are paying hefty money to mentors so I won’t play in this tournament it’s ridiculous because he knows he will fail . These players got lot of chances and failed in every way . Tanvir apart from couple of t20 tournaments. What has he achieved ? Maqsood was backed by misbah and still failed . Shahzad was treated as golden boy . He is talking about attitude of Babar azam . First he needs to look at himself how he behaved like a world beater when he was in team .

 

[Major]

Misbah , Malik and Sarfraz are widely respected in Pakistan cricket . These guys who have no future will obviously complain . What does maqsood have to prove now ? Ahmed shahzad is giving lame excuses that you are paying hefty money to mentors so I won’t play in this tournament it’s ridiculous because he knows he will fail . These players got lot of chances and failed in every way . Tanvir apart from couple of t20 tournaments. What has he achieved ? Maqsood was backed by misbah and still failed . Shahzad was treated as golden boy . He is talking about attitude of Babar azam . First he needs to look at himself how he behaved like a world beater when he was in team .

Shezad was treated royally by Afridis gang and was in every team.

Point is, shezad and umar never helped domestic players, they were never there.

This guy even went on to rant against nadeem omar, the only guy who choose to help him

 

[Asif321]

Shezad was treated royally by Afridis gang and was in every team.

Point is, shezad and umar never helped domestic players, they were never there.

This guy even went on to rant against nadeem omar, the only guy who choose to help him

Yeah that was worst Nadeem Omar picked him when no one even looked at him . Yet he was against him just because Nadeem had said don’t interfere in administrative matters of QG . Lord shahzad wants to show he is the boss in every department. It’s easy to utter rubbish on YouTube channels .

 

[Major]

Yeah that was worst Nadeem Omar picked him when no one even looked at him . Yet he was against him just because Nadeem had said don’t interfere in administrative matters of QG . Lord shahzad wants to show he is the boss in every department. It’s easy to utter rubbish on YouTube channels .

If shezad wants to show his seniority, he should do so by taking part in developing domestic juniors like Malik, Misbah and sarfraz did.

Him and Umar Akmal have that personality where they like the juniors running around them and catering to their needs. No wonder they got kicked out

 

[Major]

Good thread, but tanvir destroyed Azam's career? Wasn't Shahid Afridi the one who did that?

Nope. Afridi was not happy when Hammad was selected for the national team straight out of U19. The selectors at that time, which consissted the likes of iqbal qasim, were soo immature that if they saw a player do well in an u19 tournament, they would immiedietly select the guy for the National team, which was just plain stupid.

Hammad Azam and Raza Hassan were doing well in u19, and out of no where both these guys were added.

When i was young, i used to blame Afridi for Hammad and Mohammad Irfan (Afridi was against his seelection in 2010 and preferred Sami for the World T20), but as i grew up, i understood that Afridi was right. Especially about Irfann. Everyone on the forum went anti Afridi when he stopped Irfans selection for the World T20 2010.

Anyways, Hammad Azam after his U19 went to Rawalpindi region. He was a batting allrounder and was someone that needed to bat at no.4 and no.5. Now when Umar Amin had the captaincy, he would make sure to play Hammad at the right position, but the problem was that whenever Sohail Tanvir showed up, irrespect of his leadership skills, he was made captain of Pindi region because he had international experience, and was a Senior. So out of respect he would get captaincy. Now in Tanvir's mind, he saw himself as the worlds best allrouder, and because Imran moved up the batting order in 1992 and Afridi moved himself up the batting order in 2009 world t20. Tanvir made it a habit to come out to bat at no.4, no.5. He would come out to bat before many of the pindi players, and Hammad Azam was always being shifted down.

Basically, this was during the era of fayselbank t20 tournaments, where the tv matches performance would earn you a call up and not once was Hammad allow to bat. Hammad would always come in during the last 2 overs when the only way to score runs was to hit out of the park. Meanwhile, Tanvir would just miss everything and even if he would score some runs, he would go back to the dugout thinking he was Sobers (Mind you, i was a Sohail Tanvir fan back than).

So its just funny how Tanvir has to balls to make comments that he would had developed players now.

In 15 years time, you will see me writing a same post on SHadab Khan aswell.

 

[mominsaigol]

Nope. Afridi was not happy when Hammad was selected for the national team straight out of U19. The selectors at that time, which consissted the likes of iqbal qasim, were soo immature that if they saw a player do well in an u19 tournament, they would immiedietly select the guy for the National team, which was just plain stupid.

Hammad Azam and Raza Hassan were doing well in u19, and out of no where both these guys were added.

When i was young, i used to blame Afridi for Hammad and Mohammad Irfan (Afridi was against his seelection in 2010 and preferred Sami for the World T20), but as i grew up, i understood that Afridi was right. Especially about Irfann. Everyone on the forum went anti Afridi when he stopped Irfans selection for the World T20 2010.

Anyways, Hammad Azam after his U19 went to Rawalpindi region. He was a batting allrounder and was someone that needed to bat at no.4 and no.5. Now when Umar Amin had the captaincy, he would make sure to play Hammad at the right position, but the problem was that whenever Sohail Tanvir showed up, irrespect of his leadership skills, he was made captain of Pindi region because he had international experience, and was a Senior. So out of respect he would get captaincy. Now in Tanvir's mind, he saw himself as the worlds best allrouder, and because Imran moved up the batting order in 1992 and Afridi moved himself up the batting order in 2009 world t20. Tanvir made it a habit to come out to bat at no.4, no.5. He would come out to bat before many of the pindi players, and Hammad Azam was always being shifted down.

Basically, this was during the era of fayselbank t20 tournaments, where the tv matches performance would earn you a call up and not once was Hammad allow to bat. Hammad would always come in during the last 2 overs when the only way to score runs was to hit out of the park. Meanwhile, Tanvir would just miss everything and even if he would score some runs, he would go back to the dugout thinking he was Sobers (Mind you, i was a Sohail Tanvir fan back than).

So its just funny how Tanvir has to balls to make comments that he would had developed players now.

In 15 years time, you will see me writing a same post on SHadab Khan aswell.

In 15 years time, you will see me writing a same post on Shadab Khan aswell.

I agree with everything you said, but i always wanted to ask you this question.

What made you change your mind about shadab? Alot of people including myself use to view him as decent, and ik you once forwarded him and so did many others.

But I've read past comments and you were amoung the first to start pointing out how rubbish he was as a player and then made that thread on why he keeps getting selected.

Some of the earlier comments on it are ironically in support of shadab, But obviously now it's all negative for obvious reasons.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If shezad wants to show his seniority, he should do so by taking part in developing domestic juniors like Malik, Misbah and sarfraz did.

Him and Umar Akmal have that personality where they like the juniors running around them and catering to their needs. No wonder they got kicked out

It is common trait in Pakistanis that to cover up their own failures they pretend that they never failed but they made sacrifices for their country.

Ahmed is the same here. He was a mediocre player who latched onto Afridi and took his career in the wrong direction instead of working hard.

Now to cover up his failures he will pretend that he actually made sacrifices for his country and is a martyr.

 

[Major]

In 15 years time, you will see me writing a same post on Shadab Khan aswell.

I agree with everything you said, but i always wanted to ask you this question.

What made you change your mind about shadab? Alot of people including myself use to view him as decent, and ik you once forwarded him and so did many others.

But I've read past comments and you were amoung the first to start pointing out how rubbish he was as a player and then made that thread on why he keeps getting selected.

Some of the earlier comments on it are ironically in support of shadab, But obviously now it's all negative for obvious reasons.

I have actually practiced with Shadab once, when he was unknown. Good guy, he was more into batting than bowling, and was a hard worker that dint bund himself to a club and did his own practice.

When he got selected, i was quite excited, but than during his first PSL i noticed that when the ball was getting wet, he would lose his grip and either he would bowl full tosses or half pitch. Now there is saying around here, when a newbie bowls bad, we say its his first game, let him develop.

Shadab didnt develop. He didnt improve.

I think it was 2 PSL's ago that i noticed that his rubbish of bowling 2 full and 2 at the back showed he had severe line and length issues and knew that he would get exposed. What Hardik Pandya did to him during the 2017 champions trophy final was just a slight demo, just like how i view iftis on salught agaisnt axar patil a demo aswell.

What really bothered me about SHadab more was when he misused his captaincy. You see, Islamabad had the first pick in one of the psl, and Rashid Khan was in that draft, we picked Hassan Ali, LQ picked Rashid at second. Than Mubasir Khan came, and Shadab didnt give him overs, Zafar Gohar was there, again Shadab ignored him. Than we even had Abrar Ahmed, Shadab again under utilized him, and while till Mubasir Khan i was giving the benefit of the doubt to shadab, but when Abrar was also not used, i understood that SHadab is selfish and he will never play another spinner that could lead him to being dropped.

There are matches where SHadab would bowl 4 overs and give 1 over to the other spinner, and there are also matches where the batsman is hitting runs and is set, and Shadab on purpose gives the over to another spinner, becuase if that spinner gets him out, it helps the team, and if he gets hit for runs, it helps shadab so win win.

Captaincy and seniority issue is a big problem in Pakistan. So when people like Maqsood bash Misbah, Malik and Sarfraz, it really pisses me off, because these 3 were the seniors that helped their players. Like, i dont even have to talk about Sarfraz, his stories have been told by the players themselves.

Shadab will also end up becoming a toxic senior later in his career

 

[Nikhil_cric]

One underrated thing about Sarfaraz Ahmed is that he is nowhere near as toxic as some of your other ex cricketers .

Dude didn't even mind carrying drinks after he lost Test captaincy and was out of the LOI side.

And I've never heard him talk rubbish about current players or administration or blame anyone for his exclusion.

No matter what you thought about his tactics, captaincy, keeping, batting etc, he seems like he could be a good mentor regardless of his yelling . As long as his intentions are right, that's more than what you can ask from a PAK ex cricketer.

 

[mominsaigol]

One underrated thing about Sarfaraz Ahmed is that he is nowhere near as toxic as some of your other ex cricketers .

Dude didn't even mind carrying drinks after he lost Test captaincy and was out of the LOI side.

And I've never heard him talk rubbish about current players or administration or blame anyone for his exclusion.

No matter what you thought about his tactics, captaincy, keeping, batting etc, he seems like he could be a good mentor regardless of his yelling . As long as his intentions are right, that's more than what you can ask from a PAK ex cricketer.

Sarfi is pakistan cricket, Rizwan sucks believe it

 

[DeadlyVenom]

One underrated thing about Sarfaraz Ahmed is that he is nowhere near as toxic as some of your other ex cricketers .

Dude didn't even mind carrying drinks after he lost Test captaincy and was out of the LOI side.

And I've never heard him talk rubbish about current players or administration or blame anyone for his exclusion.

No matter what you thought about his tactics, captaincy, keeping, batting etc, he seems like he could be a good mentor regardless of his yelling . As long as his intentions are right, that's more than what you can ask from a PAK ex cricketer.

That's true.

 

[mominsaigol]

I have actually practiced with Shadab once, when he was unknown. Good guy, he was more into batting than bowling, and was a hard worker that dint bund himself to a club and did his own practice.

When he got selected, i was quite excited, but than during his first PSL i noticed that when the ball was getting wet, he would lose his grip and either he would bowl full tosses or half pitch. Now there is saying around here, when a newbie bowls bad, we say its his first game, let him develop.

Shadab didnt develop. He didnt improve.

I think it was 2 PSL's ago that i noticed that his rubbish of bowling 2 full and 2 at the back showed he had severe line and length issues and knew that he would get exposed. What Hardik Pandya did to him during the 2017 champions trophy final was just a slight demo, just like how i view iftis on salught agaisnt axar patil a demo aswell.

What really bothered me about SHadab more was when he misused his captaincy. You see, Islamabad had the first pick in one of the psl, and Rashid Khan was in that draft, we picked Hassan Ali, LQ picked Rashid at second. Than Mubasir Khan came, and Shadab didnt give him overs, Zafar Gohar was there, again Shadab ignored him. Than we even had Abrar Ahmed, Shadab again under utilized him, and while till Mubasir Khan i was giving the benefit of the doubt to shadab, but when Abrar was also not used, i understood that SHadab is selfish and he will never play another spinner that could lead him to being dropped.

There are matches where SHadab would bowl 4 overs and give 1 over to the other spinner, and there are also matches where the batsman is hitting runs and is set, and Shadab on purpose gives the over to another spinner, becuase if that spinner gets him out, it helps the team, and if he gets hit for runs, it helps shadab so win win.

Captaincy and seniority issue is a big problem in Pakistan. So when people like Maqsood bash Misbah, Malik and Sarfraz, it really pisses me off, because these 3 were the seniors that helped their players. Like, i dont even have to talk about Sarfraz, his stories have been told by the players themselves.

Shadab will also end up becoming a toxic senior later in his career

Misbah, malik and Sarfraz are all respected by the dugout due to their services, and people like maqsood, Shehzad and UA just don't have anybrespect for it and frankly speaking neither do imad, amir and many others who have attitude and selfish vibes to them

My issues with misbah are not with the man himself but with some who've elevated him to jesus status, Otherwise he's a hard working good Muslim who tries his best but his approach in my personal opinion is outdated in terms of whiteball since he's stuck in the 90's, whereas in red ball he's brilliant due to the same classic approaches of the 70's being applicable today as red ball hasn't changed. England tried to change it with bazzball but it failed and root remains their best test batter.

Sarfi for me is the opposite of Misbah, he's also hard working and a faithful Muslim and his approach to whiteball is solid however his approach to red ball is terrible.

Malik on the other hand is an average cricketer who punches well > his weight and is always available for national duty. Even at this age if you call him back he will try his best but if you don't call him then he won't whine or complain.

These 3 are good ambassadors of the support and the likes of Shehzad, Tanvir, UA ain't doing them any favours.

As for shadab, yeah he has the coward mentality. The problem is people are still coattail riding him for that yuvi wicket even though yuvi by 2015 was kinda finished. And Babar sidelining abrar doesn't help.

Ik abrar got bullied by Bangladesh but I saw the kid bowl against England, I still back him 100%, people are overreacting on him. As for saim, I think it's the opposite, people are overhyping lol .

 

[Asif321]

Sarfi is pakistan cricket, Rizwan sucks believe it

Rizwan is a good cricketer who knows how to find his ways . Excellent test player but in LO he can only perform at his preferred position . Also I won’t consider him a good captain or mentor because he is all about himself it would be hard to see any young budding player to flourish under him . He might be good tactically but he is not the one who will sacrifice for team .

 

[mominsaigol]

Rizwan is a good cricketer who knows how to find his ways . Excellent test player but in LO he can only perform at his preferred position . Also I won’t consider him a good captain or mentor because he is all about himself it would be hard to see any young budding player to flourish under him . He might be good tactically but he is not the one who will sacrifice for team .

I was just trolling my bro @Nikhil_cric he knows I'm messing around.

But yeah, Rizwan is good in test, Horrible in t20, bang average in odi and has a selfish mentality.